I'm thinking of cutting my mum out

[DaughterinChains]

I've named changed for this. I might have posted details before so if anyone recognises please don't out me

I really need some advice and don't know where to turn.

My mum is married to a violent angry bully. She has two kids with him. For the last 15 years or so he has controlled her through intimidation, violence and emotional blackmail. She has no friends. She cannot go any without his permission.

There's a long list of things he's done to her - for example slamming a door on her hand so she had to have part of her finger amputated, taking her keys away so she cant go out, bad mouthing her family and turning her against her own daughter (not me, another half sibling who's not his).

I used to visit every fortnight to see my younger siblings and mum so they had some contact with normality. However since getting pregnant and having my son I've stopped as I dont feel safe around him. He's never been violent towards me but he has had rages while I'm there which have scared me and I've been too scared to stand up to him.

For years my mum has talked about leaving but can't. I understand this is a hard thing to do. She has been in previous violent relationships - where me and brother were witness to some horrible things. In the end she fell victim to depression and alcoholism and left me and my brother to basically fend for ourselves aged 8 and 10 while her then boyfriend was on drugs. We were taken into care after I told my teacher on my first day of secondary school. It was the best thing that ever happened to us. To this day my mum has no idea it was me that got us "taken away".
Anyway, since having my son I don't want anything to do with my mum's husband. He won't let mum visit without him being present but I feel sick at the thought of him near my child. I'm also fed up of 15+ years of him indirectly controlling me and how I contact my mum.

My mum wanted to visit this half term but I knew she'd be accompanied by her husband. So I stopped taking her calls to avoid any meeting. I know this was the cowards way out but I couldn't face telling her how I feel. She knows I don't like him but I don't think she realises just how much I hate him.

I feel like by having him in my house and playing by his rules (ie he has to come to every visit which stops me and my mum having a proper chat) I'm letting him think it's okay to act this way.

Yet by cutting my mum out, I'm punishing her? I feel so guilty. Yet I'm also angry with her for putting all of her children through hell as she doesn't stand up to her husband.

Can someone help me think through what I should do? First stop I need to ring mum and apologise for ignoring her and explain. However as I've never gone into my feelings before, I don't think she'll take it well.

Please help.

[KellynRowan]

What a thing to have to deal with.

If your scared of him which it definitely sounds like you are why not arrange a lunch or a day out in a public place with them. I.E a walk along a river or to the park or some where like that.

If it were me I'd phone my mum and explain why you've ignored her calls. Tell her you are scared for your sons safety and will not let a violent man be any influence on your son.

You never know this might give her a little push as he's little and unable to defend himself and she might leave him.

I;ve not really much else advice or suggestions I could give.

I hope it works out though for the best both for you and your mum.

[Karmann]

This is a difficult one. Your mum clearly has deep routed problems and has followed certain patterns of behaviour throughout her adult life. Until she decides that she can't continue like this, and seeks help for herself, there's very little you can do.

However, since you are now a mum your responsibility is for the safety and welfare of your child. This man is a violent bully (and your mum knows this) and no-one would expect you to allow him around your child.

Don't shut the door on your mum completely, keep in touch with her by phone and do explain your feelings to her. Think calmly about what you would like to say to her before you phone. She has made some poor choices over the years but it's so easy for those on the outside to sit in judgement.

All the best.

[DaughterinChains]

Thank you. I'm going to ring mum this weekendand try and explain - I'll write it out first.

Meeting somewhere public is a good idea if mum's husband will let her. He tried to stop her going to my wedding although my brother ended up fetching her so put a stop to that!

[mrsboogie]

Are you going to let this evil bully continue to exert his malign influence to another generation of your family. NO! of course not.

Your primary responsibility is to your son - your mother is responsible for her own choices and their repercussions.

Agree with the previous poster - keep in touch with her by phone but do not have this monster in your home or near your son. She will have normalised his behaviour in her own mind and your refusal to accept it might (it is a big might) possibly make her see how wrong she is in refusing to put her children's welfare first.

[Miggsie]

It is a shame you and your brother can't go to your mum's, pack her some clothes and take her away forever to somewhere where this man can't get to her.

On the realism front, I agree that you have to protect your son...and somehow must get your mum on her own, even if you only arrange a shopping trip and go to the loo together or something.

If your mum's husband is anything like my violent uncle he will also listen into your mum's phone calls, so don't say anything too inflammatory. You will just have to be calm.

[DaughterinChains]

mrsboogie she has normalised it. I think I did to some extent too but slowly waking up.

miggsie I don't think I've ever had a phone call where he isn't in the background - he doesn't even hide the fact, he just shouts over my mum telling her what to say etc etc.

[youngblowfish]

I can only imagine how much guilt you carry around with you. I also had an unbearably unhappy childhood and finally decided to run away at the age of 15. I never went back and to this day people sometimes tell me how I should have stayed and endured whatever was thrown at me and how I abandoned my family. Oh well, I really feel as though I made the best decision in less than ideal circumstances. Just wanted to say that what you did as a child was very, very brave indeed and shows the enormous strength of your character.

The first thing I would try to do is stop guilt-tripping yourself. Your mum's situation is unfortunate and I actually find it admirable that you stayed in touch in order to provide her with 'some contact with normality', even if it meant putting yourself at risk. Naturally, your priorities have changed now and you want to protect your son. I completely understand that because, as much now I see my father for the sake of the rest of the family, I still don't know how I am going to feel about him being a grandfather to my children .

I think I would just try to be honest with your mother about the way you feel. It will come as a surprise to her as she has most likely devised various strategies of denial in order to be able to survive in a relationship with such a bully. But be prepared that her response might disappoint you and hurt you. Ultimately you know you are doing the right thing for you and for your son. Your mum has made her choice but it does not have to affect the way you live your life. It may mean cutting her out if she is not able to get any time without her husband or it may bring a change in their relationship, but it is something you have very little control over.

What you are planning to do requires a lot of bravery and strength. But all you are trying to do is protect yourself and your child from somebody dangerous. It shows that, despite what you have been through, you are healthy and have a good idea of what is and is not acceptable. Have more faith in your judgement.

Also, as much as I understand why you changed your name for posting this and would not dream of judging you for it, I just wanted to say that none of that mess is your fault. It happened to you and you came out the other end despite of it. You really should be very proud of yourself and you should not think others will judge you for what happened to you. They will admire you.

Best of luck!

[ItsGraceAgain]

Good luck from me, too
I hope your mum finds even a little strength from somewhere. Her life must be dreadfully confusing. I'm so sorry you had to grow up with this arsehole - and happy to hear you can offer your mum some gentle support, however remotely.

[groundhogs]

There is some very good advice on this thread, try and keep in contact with her, she is alone in that hell, although it's her deicision to be there, and certainly nothing to do with you nor any of your fault, it's the kindest thing to do, to offer her remote friendship if that's all that is possible.

Think the public places idea is great, also think kidnapping is an even better one.

Could you at least coach her to gather cash/documents etc and try and get her out of there?

I wish you the very very best, please don't feel any shame or guilt at all, you are definately doing the right thing, and no one ought to judge you for it.

[youngblowfish]

Oh, the kidnapping scenario is the one I fantasised about in relation to my poor mother and my younger sisters quite a lot. It is completely natural and also completely unhelpful. By encouraging somebody else to leave an abusive relationship, one takes responsibility for them and their actions and follows the same old pattern of taking the place of the parent. It would inevitably backfire. I think that you already know that it is not your place nor your duty to convince your mother of what would be best for her. She has to make her own decisions, as does everybody else. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

[maristella]

Daughterinchains my mum was in a very controlling, abusive relationship for over 2 years. in those 2 years i had to report her missing to the police, i had to collect her things from his house, and call the police when the knife wielding b*stard was trying to force her underwear off. i nearly had to testify in court against him. also in those 2 years he did his very best to break every other relationship she had.
at the time i had no idea how to approach the situation. there seems to be very little support out there for close friends and family members of those in such relationships. i wish i had known about MN back then!
i that time i went through a range of emotions. at times i felt angry with her, very angry. many times i had to walk away and stop trying to pursue a relationship with her. bad i know, but sometimes you have to look after yourself. i also felt angry with her after it was all over, for having put me in danger in the past. i know that doesn't sound kind, but she assured me things were better and had been for a while so i agreed to visit and ended up spending the entire night making police statements while other officers searched for the knife he had been carrying
sorry, more of a response than you needed but it is very good to let it out at times!
the attitude i took towards their relationship towards the end was a very matter of fact one. for example, when she did talk about his behaviour, i would calmly point out that he was abusive and explain how i had reached that conclusion, and she often would agree, and elaborate further. some of the things i have had to hear still make me soooo angry, god help him if i ever bump into him.
i would also be very honest with her, for example when she stayed with us for 6 weeks to get away from him, i said i would call the police if he came to our door, and she knew i meant it. when he managed to find my number and called me to slag her off i told him the same (and told him to feck off and leave me alone!).
i really feel for you, i don't know if i could go through that again. i have told my mum i would not go through it again, and that if she values herself to little and wishes to be in another abusive relationship i can only do my best to stop her, but i will not put myself forward as her protector or relationship counsellor again.
sorry again for the rant!

[CarGirl]

I do recognise you from your previous posts. How old are your siblings now? It must be a horrible horrible situation.

If your siblings are at risk from emotional abuse (and tbh just living there with him is) then you could get social services involved for their sakes. It may help him tow the line a little more?

I completely understand that your priority is to protect your son.

It's just all around.

[DaughterinChains]

Oh yes the kidnapping fantasy ! I've dreamed of winning the lottery so I can get my mum and siblings out but my numbers haven't come up yet...

CarGirl social services were involved years ago because of my mum's history with us. However they decided it was all fine after my mum stopped drinking. Her husband did a good cover up job to get SS out of their lives. My siblings are 13&15 now. I'm not sure how to get SS involved again and am a bit scared as it could make things worse? I really don't know.

groundhogs yes I could coach her - but I can see her not going through with leaving and blaming me. She does that - if she wants to criticise her husband she won't do it directly - she'll claim that someone else said it. She also puts words in my mouth - even when I'm there (!), fir example telling my brother that I think he's wrong for not coming over - when I've said no such thing.

youngblowfish thank you. I feel guilty but not because I got us taken into care. Me and my brother wouldn't be where we were if I hadn't said anything. Looking back I can't believe I did it! My teacher must have been a bit shocked to have read my note (on our first day she asked everyone to write down any concerns etc). I feel guilty for not doing more for mum and not standing up to this man.

I think gentle remote support is best. I can't walk away from my mum but I can be there if need be.

I'm going to ring mum tonight and see how it goes. Scared!

[youngblowfish]

DaughterinChains, you are so composed, I really admire that. I really believe there is nothing you can do about the relationships your mum chooses and your strategy of gentle support is the best.

Regarding your comments to groundhogs, I think a lot of codependent people make up all kinds of strange comments which obviously are not true. For example, despite my running away being rather compelling evidence of the fact that my home situation was bad, my mum will sometimes say how she cannot remember my father ever hitting me. Funny how everybody else does, including the police. She's otherwise very bright and has no addiction problems herself, but I think the years of denial take their toll. My theory is that she constantly lives with an internal conflict and so the thoughts she works hard on suppressing sometimes surface, but not always in a straightforward way. She also puts words in people's mouths and is extremely skilled at avoiding responsibility.

Anyway, best of luck with the conversation. I really hope it goes well and kudos to you for facing up to the challenge.

[DaughterinChains]

Thank you everyone again.

I made the call this morning - it took a few false starts as I was scared. Luckily mum could talk as her husband was asleep.

I explained that I wasn't happy with the way her husband treated her and I was scared of his temper and didn't want my DS near him.

To her credit she took it well and said she wasn't surprised I'd not been in touch. She talked about standing up to him but has said such things before. We also talked about her uncle who brought her up - he's nearly 90 but hasn't seen her in years as he too does not like her husband. She was sad to hear that.

We agreed to meet in public but haven't set a date yet. I've given her a lot to think about.

Thanks again - I feel so much better after making the call. Writing it out sorted it out in head.

I'll take things step by step in terms of working out how my relationship with my mum goes from here. It's going to be hard but I'm so glad I've finally broken my silence to her.

[DaughterinChains]

I feel a bit detached from it at the moment - my post reads very matter of fact! This is massive for me as I'm finally acknowledging to my mum out loud that I'm not happy

[youngblowfish]

Your last post brought a smile to my face. It is hardly an easy situation to deal with, but you're very brave for breaking the silence and I am so happy she was able to listen.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you and sending hugs your way :-).

[DaughterinChains]

Thanks youngblowfish

I've just told my DH and he's proud I've finally done it! I'm cuddling my DS feeling happy. I feel free!

[youngblowfish]

:-) stop it now, I am very soft in the middle and will cry over my keyboard. There you go, proof that your posts don't read very matter of fact. But really, so happy for you.

[DaughterinChains]

Haha sorry!

Now time to put DS down for a nap. Life is good.

[DaughterinChains]

Thanks Madam, I have my fingers crossed.