once again so angry and hurt by my mother, again

[BumptiousandBustly]

My relationship with my mother has always been complicated, I needed more from her than she was prepared to give, and as I child it felt like I was always asking for more affection and not getting it. She has told me that I was a very clingy baby and she actually went away for a week when I was little (I don't know how young), as she couldn't cope, and I cried the whole time!

I have suffered from depression before and it has come back in this pregnancy. She saw me a few months ago, adn I had a real meltdown, can't cope etc and she just dismissed it as "hormones"! - she has never wanted to know about or deal with my depression.

I she recently told me, as something that is really funny, that 21 months ago when DS was born, she was actually in the same city as me the night he was born, but didn't come and see him the next day, as she had to get her train!

Now I had a really bad birth experiance last time - induced, left to scream on maternity ward with no attention for two hours without being checked and people visiting in the next beds etc, .left on continuous monitoring without anyone looking at the results (the machine ran out of paper). Finally moved to labour ward as passing midwife realised DS's heartbeat was lower than mine, and it turned out I was fully dilated and already pushing! - so fairly traumatic all round, and, as you can imagine I am really worried about the impending birth of my second son.

My lovely MIL has offered to come and stay but she is in ireland, 70, and not that well, so its not really fair to her, my lovely SIL had cleared her diary for a month and is prepared to drive down at a moments notic but lives hours away, so I am really scared I won't have DH with me when I give birth.

I mentioned to my mother, would she be prepared to come and stay before the birth to help out her responses where;

But I might have to stay for as much as a week, for just one event.

I could come on the 28th and the baby might not come till the 30th of 31st!

And, when she thought I was asking her to come to help when I went into labour: But I would have to come at 5 hours notice.

I know from experiance that there is no point in saying anything to her - I am just told that its my fault, that I expect too much, and that she just deals with these hurts as your children just hurt you.

So tell me, am I being demanding to expect her to not just totally reject out of hand the very idea of helping me with the birth of my second child.

NB when I said that I didn't think she would be prepared to help, she really liked this, I think she thinks she is really independant and cool! When she arrived to visit 11 days after the birth of DS, she announced that she wasn't cooking, cleaning or making cups of tea, as she was the grandma and that wasn't her job!

And please be gentle, I am really struggling with this as once again I have to swollow how I feel whereas she prides herself on telling me if I ever upset her!

[Plumm]

I think you've hit the nail on the head when you say "I think she thinks she is really independant and cool". She's concocted an image of herself and for some reason that doesn't involve doing things for other people.

I'm sorry you have to put up with this, but you do sound like you have other (normal!) people around you.

And I'm not surprised you were a 'clingy' baby, if she never showed you the affection all children need and deserve.

[BumptiousandBustly]

Plumm

I actually asked my step father once if the reason she had me was that you couldn't easily get abortions in those days (as it would seem she absolutly wasn't ready for a child).

He seemed surprised and said that she had wanted children - I don't know - I also don't know why she went on to have 5!

[mrsboogie]

no, you are not being demanding, but you are being unrealistic, I'm sorry to say.

Can you stop now? stop expecting her to change and be the mother she never was and never knew how to be? She sounds like she is not very empathic or maternal but very self- centred. She doesn't have it in her to give you what you want. That is very sad but it hurts you more if you don't just accept it and move on.

your lovely SiL sounds like a diamond as does the rest of your family - why are you worried about your DH being present at the birth? - is it because he needs to look after your older child? if that is all it is it should be possibLe to sort something else out.

Where do you live?

[BumptiousandBustly]

MrsBoogie

I know I have to lower my expectations, I just never seem to get them low enough! I knew she wouldn't come and in fact only mentioned it to her because my MIL was so worried about stepping on any toes.

What gets me is the reasons "maybe a week for only one event!" etc.

With the birth, I am indeed worried that DH won't make it as he has to look after DS, I am also likely to give birth extremly quickly, so not much time for SIL to get here.

We don't have friends who live close enough, who are close enough to wake up in the night and those friends who would help are quite far away.

However we are booking a doula, so at least I should have someone at the birth, even though I desperatly want DH too!

[BumptiousandBustly]

If she had even said: "I know this is really hard for you, and I am really sorry but I just can't help"

Or " I can only come for a couple of days, would that help at all"

or anything really, other than dismissing it as totally laughable, I wouldn't be half so upset.

[mrsboogie]

she is probably not capable of seeing it from your point of view but it is very understandable that her attitude hurts you.

[GroundHoHoHogs]

Accept help from those wonderful enough to offer it. If your Mum isn't going to roll up her sleeves and help her daughter, so be it, let her stay out of the loop.

A GM job IS to bloody well help their daughter when she becomes a mum, her role IS to cook, clean and make the flipping tea, if that's what helps you. OK so my mum was too busy 4 years ago being a second time bride to help me in my hour of need, but she stepped up for my sister this year.

Embrace your IL family, they will be of much greater value.

And your MUM? Don't even tell her you are going into labolur, don't tell her about the birth at all, let her find out some other way. IF she ever has the brass neck to ask, then simply tell her that you were only informing those people who were playing important roles. She didn't want to be involved, was too keen on being independent and cool, so you thought she'd be happier being totally excluded.

Ice her out, give her a taste of her own medicine, it'll really sting her.

She really doesn't deserve to have such a thoughtful and sensistive girl like you as her daughter. HUGE un-mn hugs!

[piratecat]

she won't change, and it doesn't matter what you wish she would say, becuase she isn't going to say it.

You've done this post now and i am totally convinced that the wise words will help you re direct your energy and attention. She is incapable of being 'normal'. don't beat yourself up.

You really don't need her to help you, it would be crap.

[ItsGraceAgain]

BB, I've just been through a sort of epiphany (with the help of MNters) where I faced up to the fact I DESPISE my adorable mother, for being too wrapped up in her fantasy of herself to have EVER cared about me (except how I reflect on her) - and for hating me when I was born. It's really bloody hard to break the "rule" that we worship our mothers but I already feel better for it!

All this must be a damn sight worse when you're about to have your own child. What with your own "mummy" hormones washing all over you, the idea of a non-nurturing mum must be almost inconceivable at the moment. I'm very, very glad you are surrounded by loving people who do understand & care about you.

The silly old cow may well have her good points, but Being A Loving Mother (and Perfect Granny) clearly aren't among them. I'm sad for you on this, but there's no point wishing she would change. She won't.

Let her off the hook & write her off as a source of familial comfort for the next 16 years - she'll probably come into her own when the grandchildren are ready to be taken out to exciting cultural events or something similar!

Don't tell her it's all right, btw, because it clearly isn't okay with you. Just say you're disappointed but not surprised and leave it there. If she did turn up out of guilt, she'd be a nightmare by the sound of it, so don't ask her anymore ... until the kids are grown up!

Wishing you an easy & happy birth - with good people round you

[ChippingIn]

Can I ask - why do you bother with her anymore? She is no mother to you and seems like she hasn't ever been. You have a lovely set of IL's - embrace being part of their family and shut your toxic mother out. You have been too kind for too long.

Biggest un-mumsnetty hugs.

[TheArmadillo]

YANBU

It is horrible having a mother who hurts you and doesn't forfill our idea of a mother. It really hurts and because of this we keep wishing that they would do what we expect/desire.

The hardest part of this whole process is accepting that you cannot rely on them for anything - it is easier in some ways in the long run to have no expectations and if possible no or low contact. It does stop the hurt all the time and the hope. But getting rid of the hope is hard. We want to believe that when we need them they will step up - but the hurt when they don't is too much.

However there is still pain and hurt to get over.

You need to reduce your expectations to nil - to ask for nothing because asking for it means you will be let down and become hurt and angry.

I have my first scan in a couple of weeks and probably will have to go by myself. Because we have no one else to look after ds and take him to school as ILs are on holiday.

But then I remember how it was with ds1. With my dad yelling at me in the corridor when I could barely stand and ds had been taken into SCBU. I remember my mum telling me how my giving birth had been too hard on her and I wasn't appreciating how difficult it was and how she banned me from having any more children. I remember my mum taking the piss cos my stomach was flat immediately after giving birth (as hers had been apparently). I remember my mum rubbishing my scan pictures and taking no interest because she couldn't tell what they were supposed to be and others could.

In the long run it is easier on me when they have no imput. But it means I have to be alone. And that hurts.

[TheArmadillo]

sorry should have been my stomach wasn't* flat

[diddl]

Just going back to OP,is there a neighbour who could have your son until your SIL gets there so that your husband can go with you?

Also, if your mother doesn´t want to help-that´s up to her!

My mother wanted to move in when I had my second!
I couldn´t imagine anything worse!

[BumptiousandBustly]

GroundHOHOHogs, I agree, it IS my mothers job to help, at least while she is here, and not expect us to run around after her. I am planning to have a word about that one at least, and say that if she isn't going to help this time, then I want her to come much later on, after the birth, as we can't run round after her and two children as well.

Piratecat, you are quite right, she isn't going to change, and the idea of her coming now, is horrible, it just hurts that she has so little thought for me, that she can dismiss the idea so casually.

ItsGraceagain, we go through this cycle at the moment where she does something that really hurts me, I don't call her for months and months, she calls every couple of weeks and we talk for about 10 mins about nothing at all, and then eventually I relax a bit, start calling her occasionally, even actually talking to her about somethings, and then it happens all over again.

The relationship is getting worse and worse, and there is nothing I can do to stop it, as there is no point in telling her how I feel, its just slowly vanishing.

The Armadillo, that is exactly right, its the hope, or the dashed hopes, that hurt so much, so yes, having absolutly hopes at all is the easiest, its just really hard to give up on her completely. I have a step father and biological father who I have already given up on totally, and its really hard to do it with the last remaining parent I have.

Your experiance sounds horrific, I think you are really brave for cutting contact, but as you say, it does hurt.

To be fair to my mother, she is quite keen on our DS, but very much on her terms, she books tickets and then announces she is coming to visit. When she does come she won't help in the house at all, but does gardening (we have never asked her to do this, she just does it). She is coming to see him and wants me to plan "things to do"! I will be seven months pregnant and was kind of hoping she would help with him so I could relax a bit, but no!

I just never thought she would be this cavalier about it all, but, as several of you have said, we woudln't want her now anyway, the pressure to go into labour instantly would be horrible and I would be really stressed. At least my ILs are lovely and the doula can be with me until my SIL arrives to help.

Diddle, we just don't know the neighbours well enough to ask.

[zoe2010]

Do feel so much sympathy for you as I have effectively spent my whole life without the mother I want and deserve and it still hurts 44 years on. And, like all Mums, I know how vulnerable it feels when birth is imminent too.
Acceptance is the only way to deal with your Mum- she is what she is and, as everyone else says, she won't change. I really recommend therapy for a short while when the dust has settled after birth. I did it and it really helped to heal the wounds I had. My therapist explained to me that people are motivated by gratification and if a behaviour does not gratify them they simply will not be motivated to follow it. Not every woman is born to nuture and adore her offspring sadly. The rejection you feel is not because you are unlovable but because she cannot give you what any child wants and expects.

You need to put her on a backburner- think of her as a more distant relative perhaps- and invest your love in those who very clearly love you. Becoming a mother was an enormous healing for me- I have strived through often very difficult circumstances to give my darling children all the love and care I never had. I tell them every day that I love them unconditionally, I hug them and cuddle them. They know they are adored but more than anything I feel like a wrong has been righted. I have corrected an imbalance and that helps so much. They are my family now and my mother with her self-centred and often nasty personality has slipped into the background.

Your role is no longer as "child" but as "mother". Let the past go.

As regards birth, you are still in "little girl" mode here. Take control- be assertive about what you want and need. YOur partner should certainly do that for you when you are unable to. You didn't have a terrible birth experience- that is when a mother or baby dies. You survived and had a healthy baby, but you did lose control. Most birthing women do and it's a big shock. Unless you are wealthy, then you have to come to terms with what the NHS provides: a safe but impersonal environment- which is a damn sight more than most women in this world can dream of. This is not the movies; birth is often painful, scary and unpleasant- the only outcome that counts is healthy mum and baby.

You need your partner with you- (sorry new so don't know all abbrv.) There must be another Mum, neighbour who can come to you aid until SIL arrives? People are often very flattered to be asked. Labour is usually a pretty slow process in most women- although we all know someone who knows someone who gave birth in a car- so you should have time.

You don't have to pick and choose people. Have as many around you as you can. I'd get that lovely MIL over asap too- yes, she's old and not in perfect health but her heart is clearly full of love and she has lots of mothering experience I bet she'd love to share with you.She's been around for 70 years- let her be the judge of what she can and can't do. And she won't be here forever- make the most of her now. Have SIL and MIL both there and share the joy of a new life with people who understand how precious it is- those memories will bond you together forever.

All the best xx

[ItsGraceAgain]

What a beautiful post, Zoe.

I especially like this: "people are motivated by gratification and if a behaviour does not gratify them they simply will not be motivated to follow it. Not every woman is born to nurture"
It's still a bummer though

Bumptious, mine does the gardening too! She must have been born to garden - she's far better at nurturing plants than people!

It's great that you've got your support team in place; one that WILL support you, and be there to help you not themselves.

From my own experience, I agree you could benefit from a bit of counselling when you have the time & head space. Your angry feelings are justified; it's nice to have some backup on that, and help with understanding it enough to love your self as she couldn't.

Additionally - I have more experience with psychological issues than being a parent - it's wonderful to know you will give your DCs the kind of love you should have had (but didn't), and have healthier models around you in the form of your in-laws & friends. You're breaking the cycle.

Much love and good luck

[BalloonSlayer]

for you Bumptious.

I agree with the others, FWIW.

My Mum was the only person who could have come to look after DS1 when I was having DD, had I chosen to have a VBAC or gone into labour early (ie at a moments notice, the other people were at work). She said "Well sorry but DH will just have to miss the birth - they all did in my day."

To be fair I wanted an elective section the second time round anyway, I was only asking her in case they wouldn't let me have one. But I have never forgotten it. My sister often says she feels she has to be grandmother to my DCs as well as Auntie.

I am about to ring my Mum - in fact am mumsnetting as I don't want to - to ask if we can come over to her tomorrow. She will try to put us off "I get so worried," we will have to bring our own food as she "can't cope" with cooking for us, and the reason I don't want to ring her is I am still cross with her for not coming to see us as Christmas: "can't cope" again, my mother's "American Express?" line.

Getting finally to the point, I don't consider myself to have a difficult relationship with her however. I know she loves us, she just puts her needs first. I have accepted that now. I do think it's sad though - when my DD is having a baby they will have to beat me off with a shitty stick to stop me coming round to babysit. I don't understand some people.

[ChippingIn]

BalloonSlayer - (hugs first!) I don't understand your Mother, or some of the others posted about here, I'd be like you - beat me off to keep me away!! I think you do have a difficult relationship with your Mother, it might be 'better' than before, but it's not 'normal'. I think it's very commendable of you to keep trying so hard.

I feel really awful that so many of you go through this with your Mothers. I just don't understand them at all.

[zippyzapper]

I have to second that it'sgrace the post from
zoe2010 sure is eloquent and so beautifully written.

Acceptance seems the way to go and for the OP to get her support team in place.

All the best bumptious for the birth and beyond.

[nooka]

To be completely honest I don't think you should have asked your mum because if she had said yes, it probably woudl have been incredibly stressful for you to have her to stay. But I guess we all have idealized versions of our parents in our heads, and it's easy to forget that they really aren't like that at all. Plus the weird dynamic where they can say whatever they like to you, however hurtful, but we struggle to be nice to them all the time.

One thing that did come to my mind though was would you consider the idea of a home birth at all? Just that then you wouldn't have to worry about timing so much, and although your last birth must have felt scary and horrible to you it sounds as if it was quite straightforward? Anyway, just an idea - my sister had a home birth with a doula for her second (and I was planning one with my first) and it was very positive and quite a healing experience too.

[CaptUnderpants]

Zoe2010, you are lovely and spot on. Tears in my eyes reading your post.
OP, I totally sympathise and hope that this post has helped you. I'm sure it will as so many wise words here from everyone. Would be really nice to hear how you get on.
FWIW, I would say yes to MIL who sounds lovely, be happy you have a doula and also remember that second births are much easier than first ones, physically and emotionally, because you've done it before and know what to expect.
Don't waste your emotions on your mum, she's clearly not up for providing what you're asking for right now. But you have people around who really love you and you have wisely married into a really nice family - good decision!
This may sound odd but you could ask your doula - if there is really no one else to do it - to stay home and look after your older child and free up dh to be with you. If that is the most helpful thing she can do for you then why not? It sounds nuts I know, but might be the answer. Then when SIL or whoever gets there your doula can join you in the labour ward.

I feel sure everything is going to turn out fine for you. Big hugs, we've all been there!

[loobylu3]

Bumptious-I really feel for you too. All of the responses on here are so supportive and helpful and zoe's is almost therapeutic!
I can totally see why you are upset that your mother does not wish to support you during your approaching delivery. However, if she is this unwilling, she would probably be of no help anyway.
I have a poor relationship with my mother too. She was a very self sacrificing mother (in her own way) when we were young and does love her grandchildren (my three are her only ones so far) but she always makes it clear that she does not wish to see a lot of them and it is always on her terms with no thought of helping me. We had a close relationship when I was a child and a teenager but it has, unfortunately, become a distant one over the years. (This is also the case with my siblings too except one who is treated v differently).
We ended up having to take my eldest child to hospital with us for my second child's birth as there was no one to help at all. We had just moved (a fair distance) and didn't know anyone there, PIL live abroad and my mother unwilling to stay. I have asked for her help on a couple of occasions over the years when I was really desperate and her excuses were embarrassing.
All you can do is accept that she will not help and turn to the other important people in your life (MIL and SIL) for support. Try to find a neighbour who could stay with your DS for a short time. I totally agree it is really important for your DH to be with you in labour, especially after your traumatic previous birth. I think someone else mentioned the possibility of a home birth and I think this may be worth considering too.
All the best