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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

The state of the union

41 replies

Resignedtotheinevitable · 27/12/2009 02:40



DH is good man, who means the very best for me and the DCs but his way is the only way. Amy other way undermines his whole sense of self and wellbeing.

We've been married for about 20 years and have 3 DCs (9, 11 and 13). We can't talk without him ranting for what seems like hours about my values being twisted. We haven't had sex for over 5 years and I sleep in the spare room. I can't bear sex without affection. He doesn't do cuddles or kisses or kindness. We've been to Relate twice. The first time was telephone counselling and the second time was couples counselling. It didn't help much.

I'm so weary of trying to hold the whole family edifice together when the foundations aren't sound.

We do have similarities. We're both honest and mean well. We both work hard and want the best for our children.

The differences are profound. I'm a great believer in politeness and civility and basic kindness. DH believes in unflinching honesty and directness and his right to be heard. I don't get heard much, if at all.

You need some examples. I spent the evening of Christmas Eve and all of Christmas morning cooking and cleaning. Hours and hours and hours of it. It took me around 8 hours of preparation, with starters and puddings and lots of vegetables to peel and chop. We had the DCs and six people from his side of the family so it was a large group to cater for.

Today, he tells me that I cooked far too much food. It was wasteful. He tells me that the service wasn't right because I should have put two sets of everything out. It's a long table so people shouldn't have to reach over for things. He tells me that the turkey was overcooked. I don't think it was overcooked, turkey is quite dry relative to chicken. My biggest offence was the waste, which was profligate and symptomatic of how my values are entirely warped.

Another example is maternity leave, which is long ago now but something I've never been able to forget. He thinks that both partners should contribute equally financially. In fact he said we had to be financially divorced, when he paid a joint credit card bill off in 1995. Normally I do earn my fair share. More than my fair share, actually. However my employers only allowed three months of paid maternity leave, so he insisted I went back after four months. We had enough savings for me to have a much longer time off with each DC, but he viewed that as me having a holiday.

He is ten years older than I am. He regrets having married and having children. He clashes violently (and I mean violently) with DD1. This is because he is so ridiculous about discipline. He'll shout and rant and rave when she's done something wrong, and try to confiscate her laptop. She refuses and shouts back. They have a tussle. She wins, then he comes back down minus the laptop. What is she learning through this? That bad behaviour goes unpunished if you shout and push and shove? He has suggested that we put DD1 into care because she is "vile". She isn't, she's headstrong and naughty and rebellious but that's what teenagers are. Nevertheless she is sweethearted and makes straight 'A's at school.

It's so over, isn't it?

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STIDW · 27/12/2009 02:52

Presumably if he believes in equality and you have always cooked the Christmas meal it will be his turn to cook it for the next 20 years then.

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Tortington · 27/12/2009 02:57

he sounds like an abusive bastard

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WhereYouLeftIt · 27/12/2009 03:17

From your description, your marriage is just an illusion, it has been over since you started sleeping in the spare room (and probably a lot longer than that). For all his fine talk of equality, you most obviously do not have an equal partnership, if your voice is not being heard and everything has to be his way.

Really, it's just the practicalities that you need to see through now, isn't it? The separation into two separate households.

You say you are tired, and for that reason I think that you need some support to get the ball rolling. Do you have family you could depend upon for emotional support? Or close friends?

The situation with DD1 is even more worrying than his treatment with you. How do you explain his behaviour to her (do you explain?)? Is she aware of his opinion of her as 'vile' and his proposed solution? This cannot be doing her head any good at all.

His behaviour does sound very odd, have you ever looked into it? I have read postings here about various personality disorders, I know very little about such things but some MNetters seem very clued-up about such things and could possibly point you in the right direction so that you might better understand what causes him to behave as he does. With this understanding you might be better able to smoothly extricate you and your children from his influence, before it causes any more emotional damage to yourself and your DCs.

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FrankieGoesToYorkshire · 27/12/2009 10:50

Hello

He sounds like my late father. Get out now while you can still have a chance of saving your children.

My father had NPD...www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/

I hate my mother far more than I hate my father as she could have saved us but didn't. Mind you, she is NPD too so probably couldn't.

Your poor, poor daughter...don't let her end up like me... unable to have any relationship whatsoever, even friendships, and facing the rest of my life in psychotherapy.

If your Christmas meal had been the most perfect ever he would still have found something to rant about as that's the point isn't it?

I left my ex-H three years ago as he was another one....at least my children now have a chance of seeing what a normal life is like. Even if their mother is a recluse, at least I don't mess with their heads.

At least if you leave your children will have a chance.

xxx

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Resignedtotheinevitable · 27/12/2009 10:54

Thought so

Thank you

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FrankieGoesToYorkshire · 27/12/2009 10:57

There is help for you if you need it. Just keep posting and of course womans aid.

You MUST save your children. Being on your own is absolutely fantastic when you have put up with this sort of thing. Your children will change beyond recognition . You will feel like a different person.

xxxx

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AnAuntieNotAMum · 27/12/2009 14:15

I think you should take what FrankieGoesToYorkshire writes seriously. From what you've written, it doesn't come across that your DH wants the best for you and your DCs, he wants what is the best for him. Maybe because he does have a personality disorder rather than just being a bloody minded, tight-fisted, cold-hearted bastard. Either way, you all deserve more. You've tried counselling twice and it hasn't worked. It's time to protect your kids; the fights will start with the younger ones soon too probably.
Time for you too to know that you can live your life without being constantly ground down.

Wishing you strength.

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norfolkBRONZEturkey · 27/12/2009 14:26

Very unmn I know but I just wanted to send you a virtual hug because you do sound just so worn out by it all.
You do know the truth though dont you. Do you have anyone close in rl you can confide in to help give you the strength to do it
You will manage fine though, if you do provided your share as well as the lions share of the household stuff then you're doing pretty well all of it to start with. He may get a big shock though

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InMyLittleHead · 27/12/2009 15:39

fu-cking hell

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SleighGirl · 27/12/2009 16:00

It sounds absolutely awful.

There is no love, no kindness, no intimacy, no appreciation

er the good points are?????

I think your dc would be happier if you went your seperate ways.

As for the ML I am just for you and your dc.

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skihorse · 27/12/2009 16:40

If you're a regular poster, why are you sitting here wondering if there's something wrong? There are enough of these types of threads on a weekly basis for you to know this isn't right.

Great to see that once again NPD gets a nod.

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GypsyMoth · 27/12/2009 16:46

you know the answer....question is,what will you do about it??

next step will be.....

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FabHasHadALovelyXmas · 27/12/2009 16:50

Anyone who did that to my daughter would be gone. Immediately. No questions asked. Even with all the other shit he puts you through. Don't be another statistic of someone staying in a marriage for the wrong reasons.

It is nearly the new year. Have a new start for you and your children

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TheCrackFox · 27/12/2009 16:50

In summary:

he belittles you
He is not affectionate
He is not a good Dad, if he was he wouldn't be "Clashing violently with DD1"
He would not let you take full maternity leave as he might have had to financially support you
You have not had sex for 5 years

This isn't a marriage but a flat share with child care arrangements.

How would you feel if your DCs married someone like their father? Probably devastated.

A cliche I know, but you only get one life so stop wasting it on him.

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FrankieGoesToYorkshire · 27/12/2009 17:34

skihorse

not sure why the funny look...if you read my post I specifically said...sounds just like my father...who most certainly was NPD...

It's just a suggestion...not a diagnosis..I usually think you are a brilliant poster, but keep your to yourself.

Am a namechanger and DO NOT suggest PDs lightly. Have I mentioned it on any other thread you can see at the moment?

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mrsboogiefairylights · 27/12/2009 19:13

Fucking hell.

Why in God's name are you still under the same roof as him, woman?

Really, why?

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STIDW · 27/12/2009 19:21

It's par for the course that many, if not most, people going through family breakdown believe that there partner is suffering a psychological disorder of some kind. All of us have narcissistic and other traits which come to the fore when we are under stresses such as relationship breakdown. It is only when an experienced professional skilled in the tools of the trade can a specific disorder be diagnosed and even then professionals don't always get it right either. The label doesn't actually matter that much, it is the behaviour which is important.

If you have been to Relate twice and change hasn't been brought about I think you need to ask yourself if it ever will and if you want to live the rest of your like this. I wouldn't make a decision right now, Christmas is often fraught and to be frank divorce isn't always what we expect or that great either. Try reading divorce forums to see the misery it can cause for many years. Perhaps going back to Relate more with a view to exploring your own feelings, improving communication and if push comes to shove, separating with dignity.

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Resignedtotheinevitable · 27/12/2009 21:49

Thanks again to everyone. Appreciate the hugs, by the way. Yes I know this isn't right. The issue I suppose is whether separation would be worse for all concerned.

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WhereYouLeftIt · 28/12/2009 00:38

Separation may well be worse for your husband, but I do not see how it could be any worse for you or your children than what you are dealing with now. The transition will undoubtedly be painful, but once separation is achieved I truly believe you and your children will be better off.

You have undoubtedly become so inured to it over the years that this very damaging homelife has become your version of 'normal', but, it is so very far from any version of normal that I know. When you have removed yourself and your children from this, you will look back and wonder just how he managed to convince you for so long that living this way was acceptable to you.

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skihorse · 28/12/2009 04:32

Resigned I don't think you can let your daughter live under the continual threat of violence - separation won't be easy after 20 years, but I think you need to protect her.

His problems will more than likely manifest themselves in her behaviour sooner or later... whether she internalises them (eating disorders/mental anguish/low self-esteem) or externalises them (substance abuse/boyfriends/etc.).

She's only a child and right now only one person can protect her.

Good luck.

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ItsGraceAgain · 28/12/2009 05:34

Oh god, no, you can't carry on like this! Think about what your DD is learning from it - she'll end up with a marriage (haha) just like yours

I'm usually in favour of trying to improve an existing relationship but not at the expense of anybody's self-respect (yours), mental health (your DCs) or financial security (all).

"Financial divorce" is tosh, btw. Married partners own everything 50/50.

When you leave him, he'll doubtless come over all remorseful. Don't fall for it. Gather good people around you; ask for help & accept it; start living the rest of your life ... Good luck.

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ItsGraceAgain · 28/12/2009 05:35

I meant "married partners own everything between them", which is slightly different. You can clean out your accounts if you want.

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PrincessFiorimonde · 28/12/2009 05:50

Resigned, I can only imagine how hard this whole situation is for you and your children.

I reiterate what has been said here. And wish you and your DC all the very best.

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missingtheaction · 28/12/2009 09:03

It is beyond over.

However well meaning he is he is destructive and unreasonable. Wanting the best for you and yours does not make you a good person (Hitler, Mugabe, Idi Amin, etc etc).

Start considering the reality of being separated from him. How fab would it be? At the same time start thinking about the practicalities - money etc. Maybe start researching the financial realities. By the way, what he thinks is fair and reasonable is very unlikely to be what a court will think is fair and reasonable. Lots of practical advice and experience available here on Mumsnet.

The separation and divorce will be s* and there will be madness for about two years. Expect the worst in the short term.

But it will be so worth it for you and probably for your DCs too

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Resignedtotheinevitable · 28/12/2009 10:59

Thank you all. Tired again today. DH critical about the older two DC's not having had breakfast - which they refused - DS because he has caught a bug and was up vomiting most of the night and DD because she has stuffed herself with Special K bars



Another explosion pending as DD refusing to come out for lunch.

I understand what you all mean about normalising what is essentially an abnormal situation. I'll find the energy from somewhere.

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