My feed
Premium

Please
or
to access all these features

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

Family Loyalties Advice Needed Please

35 replies

Flashfried · 19/11/2009 13:55

I have posted here several times about ExP, who has had massive problems with jealousy, insecurity and has been emotionally abusive. This has involved my mum and sister and also my DC.

Finally, as a result of his behaviour, we parted (I thought for good) and haven't seen one another for 2 months.

ExP has never admitted to being an abuser, until now. He hasn't been violent or done anything criminal but has prevented me living a normal life ie: working or having much contact outside of our relationship and I have allowed this to happen.

We have parted twice before and got back together without ever really resolving the situation with any proper outside help.

This time, he has (I believe) reached rock bottom and realised his behaviour was abusive and he has been talking to a private counsellor who is helping him come to terms with why he is the way he is. He has vowed to turn his life around.

I haven't made him any promises unless I see a definite change in him. I will carry on with my life, looking for a job and doing all the things with the DC's he wasn't happy with before.

He lives 30 minutes away, so it's possible for us to see one another and take things at my pace.

My real problem is my family (mum and sister) who have refused to have anything to do with me if I am in contact with him. ExP has asked to talk to them face to face to try and reslove the situation at least, so I am not torn between them. He is fully aware they will rip him to pieces but is willing to try but they absolutely refuse, saying it is pointless.

So, where do I go from here? I don't believe I would ever turn my back on loved ones, whether I agreed with their relationships or not. My sister and I had planned a Christmas trip with the DC's (which I would still like to do) but she says she doesn't want to do it with me now. I feel controlled all over again! How best to deal with this?

OP posts:
Report
Flashfried · 19/11/2009 14:13

bump

OP posts:
Report
cestlavielife · 19/11/2009 14:17

2 months is a very short time for an abuser to be reformed.

i think your family - who you say were also abused by him - are trying to tell you something....

Report
Flashfried · 19/11/2009 14:22

I do reaslise 2 months IS a very short time, hence why I'm not making any decisions unless I see progress. How will I ever know though, if I don't try?

OP posts:
Report
QueenOfHearts22 · 19/11/2009 14:31

"We have parted twice before and got back together without ever really resolving the situation with any proper outside help."

You HAVE tried, and you DO know. Please be very very careful before going back to him. Why can't you give it 6 months, or a year, and see what happens?

2 months of therapy is NOTHING, sorry. He will face a lifelong battle in controlling his behaviour, this is not something that can be 'fixed'.

Report
Poohbearsmom · 19/11/2009 14:33

I would think ye would also benefit from going to counsellor together aswell as him continuing on his own, it is one thing him changing and working out stuff on his own but before you could possibly move forward together ye should think about doing this together too. As for him meeting your family could you invite them over and just have him there then pop out for a while wit dcs and let them have it out?? It might blow up or it might help releave some of their stress about you being in contact with him again and possibly letting him back into your life... You can understand why they are pressuring you but dont let ppl control you. You stood up to ur dp and you can stand up to your family too, but do bear in mind they are just worried about you. Im glad for you he is trying and that you are changing your life the way you want it. I hope things work out for you

Report
Poohbearsmom · 19/11/2009 14:42

And two months is a short time but two months to a man who thinks he has lost everything in his life can be an enormous life changing time. But take it slow for your sake and for your kids. Im sure you love him and dont want him or any of ye hurting and would prob love to have a lovely normal life with him etc but going slowly taking each step together and individually will be better for ye in the long run whether ye do get back together or just form a healthy relationship for yer childrens sake...

Report
cestlavielife · 19/11/2009 14:44

see also www.emergedv.com/change.html and click on signs of not changing on the left too....

Report
Flashfried · 19/11/2009 14:52

He has offered for me to go along to his counselling sessions but as yet i haven't. I do think it would help and I am thinking about it. I need to do this for my sake too I realise.

As for taking things slowly...Two months is a short time. It might take 6 months or longer, who knows but I have to see a definite change in him.

I wish it were just as easy as getting my family to pop round and leave them together to talk but unfortunately that isn't going to happen in a hurry. I just hope that if they see me carrying on with life in a 'normal' way, they might understand that maybe things have changed for the better but they are never going to know this if they refuse to even talk to me. That's a real concern for me.

OP posts:
Report
Flashfried · 19/11/2009 14:56

cestlavielife- Thanks for that link, it's very helpful.

OP posts:
Report
Flashfried · 19/11/2009 15:07

Poohbearsmom - thanks for your post too. It helps to feel I have at least some measure of understanding. I need to hear it from all angles ATM!

OP posts:
Report
AttilaTheMeerkat · 19/11/2009 15:49

He lost everything because of his actions towards you and I would think he's only admitting to this to soften you up into taking him back. Sorry to say that but these poeple do not change.

I would be saying a big no to any joint counselling as he will completely dominate any such session and make his problems out to be your fault. Any decent counsellor worth their salt would realise that abusers and their victim cannot and should not be counselled together. You have admitted that he was emotionally abusive; what has really changed?.

I think as well your family are trying to tell you something. Your family also suffered his behaviours and they've had enough of him. They've probably heard similar protestations from him before now and cannot understand why there should be any future contact between you and him.

"We have parted twice before and got back together without ever really resolving the situation with any proper outside help"
That comment of yours is very telling.

I actually don't think this can be resolved; he is too damaged and it is actually not your job to try and fix him. You are not responsible for him ultimately. You cannot act as a saviour and or rescuer in a relationship; it just does not work.

Report
Tortington · 19/11/2009 15:53

yeah, i think your family might be trying to be cruel to be kind - they are also preserving themselves from any future shit - which is understandable.

it looks like they are seeing a pattern hee that you just won't break. they thnk hes a twat - you think he's a twat - but some dumbshit thing in your gut makes you go back.

Report
Lemonylemon · 19/11/2009 16:09

I think that you should listen to your family VERY CAREFULLY..... They have seen all this happen before their eyes and have your interests at heart.

Abusers DO NOT CHANGE in 2 months.... if they ever do.

I would also be very mindful of the effects on your DCs to be honest.....

Report
sayithowitis · 19/11/2009 16:39

The OP has said that she is going to take it very slowly and will not take him back until she is convinced that he has changed. She has acknowledged that 2 months is not long enough. She has also said that they have never had outside help and support before. Now they do. it might work, it might not, but she clearly wants to try if all her 'conditions' are met as it were.

The problem is not whether or no she should get back together with her ex, she appears to have that side of things 'in hand'. Her problem is how to sort out her relationship with her family. At the moment, they are treating you as badly as he did. They may not be abusing you, but they are certainly trying to control you, even using blackmail ( the Christmas trip) to do so. Yes, they may think they are doing it for the best of reasons and I don't think they should be forced to have a relationship with the OPs ex if they don't want to, but they do need to respect that she may choose to have him back and they have to find a way of having a relationship with her and the children. If they are willing to 'punish' the OP by cutting her off, then they are as bad as he is. Sorry, but i would be telling them that you respect their decision to have no relationship with him but if they want to cut you off, it will be their loss.

Don't allow them to bully you into doing what they want you to do.

Report
MorrisZapp · 19/11/2009 17:10

I don't agree that the OPs family are just as bad as the abusive ex.

The abusive ex was an abuser - the family have presumably been loving, supportive and now are gobsmacked that the OP is willing to put herself (and presumably, them) through it all again.

Of course women want to believe their exes can change, that's normal. But it's a stretch to ask objective outsiders to see it from the same perspective.

I'd say OP, give it time. If your ex lives up to his promises then they'll come around soon enough - they won't want to give up the contact with you, not long term. If your ex does not live up to his promises then there's your answer.

Report
Flashfried · 19/11/2009 17:36

I really do appreciate everyone's POV and also respect the differing views. It's a difficult situation.

I have read many threads here about abusive relationships and there will always be mixed views.

I have been told in no uncertain terms, by my family, no matter what ExP might do to 'prove himself' they will never want anything to do with him and unfortunately, that includes me too, they are only interested in maintaining their relationship with the DC.

It makes me feel - no matter what the outcome with ExP, I don't feel I would want a relationship with my family under such conditions.

Just to add, I have one very good close RL friend, who although raises concerns, is supportive of me, wants what is best for me and DC and would always be there for me and I am very thankful for that.

OP posts:
Report
tvaerialmagpiebin · 19/11/2009 17:42

Can sympathise with you Flashfried - my mother goes into spasms and gets out the garlic, bell book and candle if I so much as mention xp's name. It isn't helpful. She says "we just want you to be happy and he hurt you" but yes, I know that, but he IS ds's father and it would be nice if when ds mentions his daddy she didn't hiss and froth at the mouth. Fortunately it goes over ds's head at the moment.

I think that it is good you feel you could get something out of counselling but I would urge you to go by yourself first, to sort out things in your head, otherwise your xp will just be calling the shots in any shared sessions.

Good luck

Report
Flashfried · 19/11/2009 18:16

Lanky - without asking for too much detail, do you feel your mum is justified in her dislike of your ExP? I KNOW mine is but it's the treatment of me I find hard to take.

Surely if I stay in touch with my family, see them regularly and keep it on friendly terms, that will be far better for all of us? That's what I would like.

It never used to happen in the past but I don't want to live in the past, I want to see if bridges can be built but they're never going to be if they won't even talk to me.

OP posts:
Report
macdoodle · 19/11/2009 19:44

Well personally I think your mad - you have got away and now you've let him back in - I have done a lot of reading (a lot) on EA, and in my heart I dont believe these men can ever change ! Put a show on yes, know "what to do" yes, know" what is expected" yes - but it all a facade, and it will slip maybe a month, a year, 10 who knows and who cares!

I have spoken at lenght to one of the NSPCC workers (my DD1 and I are attending their domestic violence counselling), she runs their "dads course", she didnt say it out right, but I think she believes it to, she believes they just learn what is acceptable, but their mind set remains the same!

Listen to your family, they are trying to tell you soemthing, and THEY have no ulterior motive!

Report
tvaerialmagpiebin · 19/11/2009 20:24

Flash - well, he was a total arse. But I am not asking her to be his best mate, only to have some semblance of common sense when it comes to his relshp with ds.

My family will talk to me but not about xp. Christmas is a nightmare as they expect me and ds to be with them, if I try to suggest that xp wants to see ds too then I get a load of stuff about how I am being dragged back in, etc etc. I have decided that I can't win with either side.

Maybe in a few years when ds is a bit bigger it might be easier. I hope so because it is incredibly draining at the moment.

Report
Janos · 19/11/2009 20:26

OP, another one here who has been in an EA relationship.

If your family are generally supportive and loving (ie non toxic and want the best for you)then frankly you should be asking yourself some very tough questions about why they are acting in this way. I expect to it looks to them as though you are throwing their love and support back in their and effectively are saying your XP is more important to you than they are.

Especially as your OP states he was involved them in his abusive behaviour.

I echo the view of others that these men DO NOT change, EVER. They just get cleverer. And nastier.

Report
giveitago · 19/11/2009 20:37

Well, my mum loathes dh with good reason - she's seen his behaviour and on one ocassion been on the receivung end. Just last week my dad wanted to speak to dh about his behaviour as it was so bad.

Nope - I can't see a way out BUT my parents have both backed off and are pleasant for the sake of peace (no talking to this man - his bonkers family influence and back him up all the way).

That's one side of the story - the other side is that my parents say quite rightly that unless they get their say with him it appears my family don't care and then I get no help.

So different views. If you were jot with him - perhaps you should not be with him now.

Your family LOVE YOU - possibly your ex needs you.

Report

Don’t want to miss threads like this?

Weekly

Sign up to our weekly round up and get all the best threads sent straight to your inbox!

Log in to update your newsletter preferences.

You've subscribed!

Flashfried · 19/11/2009 22:30

I am still here and reading all your posts and taking advice on board. It is much appreciated honestly.

I KNOW I have to think long and hard and take time in doing so.

My DC's well being is in the forefront of my mind and I will NOT jump head first back into the fire.

If he truly is getting himself together and working towards being a better person, he will wait for as long as it takes for me to feel comfortable.

I know him so well and feel that although he is being as honest as he can be right now, there is always a chance he can slip back and I have my radar set on high alert.

Meantime, I will continue to get my own life back on track with or without the support of my family.

OP posts:
Report
startingovernow · 19/11/2009 22:56

I empathise with you as I have been in a very similiar position in the past. You have two completely seperate issues going on here. One is you exp, he will either sort himself out or not, & depending on this your relationship will either survive or not. FWIW I think we all want to provide a family unit for our dc's where possible.

The other issue with your family is very unfortunate. On the one hand maybe they have your best interests at heart & do not want to see you or ds being hurt again. On the otherhand it is possible that your family of origin is where the original problem started.

I did a lot of counselling over my own situ & read loads of books on this. People tend to repeat patterns learned in childhood i.e. daughters of alcoholics marrying alcoholics, daughters of emotionally abusive, controlling parents marrying men like this etc..

If this is the case, I would highly recommend counselling to look at what patterns you are now repeating that you learned as a child. Your mother/sister may indeed have the same issues as your exp.

Either way, I think people should always support others to find their own way in life regardless of what our own opinions may be. Each individual should be supported to make the decisions that are best for them & I believe you should be allowed the freedom from your mother/sister to make the best choice for yourself & ds in all of this. Trying to emotionally blackmail/control you is not the signs of a loving/nurturing family.

I am glad you have your friend to non-judgementally support you in all of this. I sincerely wish you all of the best. I've been where you are & know how difficult it can be.

A book that I would highly recommend to you is "The emotionally abusive relationship" by Beverly Engel. It shows how patterns are formed on both sides in childhood & how patterns can be changed on both sides.

Ultimately, if your relationship is to survive you will also need to change.

Report
Flashfried · 19/11/2009 23:10

startingovernow-I should point out that DC's are not exp's children and so that is one less complication if you like.

I have always believed that my mum can be rather controlling and both my sister and I have had periods throughout our lives when she has cut us off, for one reason or another. A most recent and typical example is - my mum hasn't spoken to my sister because she has been on good terms with me since exp and I split (felt my sister was allowing me back in too easily). However, since my mum has learned of a possible reconciliation between myself and exp and my sister is NOT now on speaking terms with me, my mum has welcomed her back into her camp! I feel that in itself speaks volumes!

Anyway, I take your point. I'm sure somewhere along the line I have issues to be sorted too.

OP posts:
Report
Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.