Thanks whenwill, not had a chance yet. Been a bit manic so far and we have people here this evening. I am wondering if I am finding reasons to put things off.

nearlysilver - thankyou very much for your support and advice. I confess though that I find your post really alarming! That is my fear - that I will find there is nothing left of my marriage under the facade . What do you want to happen? I can totally understand the feeling of excitement but atm I am focusing more on the fear.

The other newest element in all this is that my dad has been diagnosed with angina at 78 - he is otherwise hale and hearty but very scared and a bit down. I am trying hard to support them (mum is same age and has really bad arthritis). I am a bit afraid to upset the apple cart. And yes I know I am stalling - same old same old

Hi OrmIrian
Another of your lurking fans here. I wanted to say that I screwed up the courage to start counselling six weeks ago because I had stopped feeling anything at all for DH after 28 years together, 23 married (hence name!).

I had an affair last year (whch he doesn't know about) but things had been sliding down hill for ages. I knew it was serious when he collapsed during a half marathon and I was just annoyed with the silly fool instead of worried or upset.

My DH is a lovely kind man who cares very much for me and desperately wants things to get better but he avoids arguments. I felt I could not express how I really felt to him as he would be so hurt. He is a difficult man to live with and I thought I was tolerating his selfishness but I was in fact storing up resentment for years.

I am learning that I had blocked off all my feelings as they were unaccceptable or inconvenient. I have acknowledged that I no longer love him or respect him, but I am still petrified to admit it and don't know what I will do next. It will be a while before I am strong enough to go with him to Relate and own up to these feelings although he knows there is something wrong.

I do know that at last I feel honest again, I hated myself when I was lying and cheating. I can see that failing to acknowledge these feelings might have led to depression.

So go on, try and find a good counsellor. I have a non directive psychotherapist who does experiential focussing. Discovering my emotions is like finding a new colour of the rainbow each week. I am really enjoying the very scary but thrilling process.

All best wishes,
NS

Good luck with your talks this weekend Orm, I will be thinking of you.

But now I'm better I can see it's not that I love him less it's just that I'm very cut off from loving anyone because I don't want to feel vulnerable.

I'm 100% committed to dh but making that emotional step towards allowing myself to be vulnerable by "loving him" 110% is very difficult and something still in progress.

Thanks cargirl - you see accepting that I love hime less than he loves me will be very hard for DH, even if he knows it deep down.

whenwill - what can I say. Thankyou so much for all your advice. I am so moved by the interest you take in my problems and the effort you take to advise me. It is phenomenal that someone I have never met should care. I am going to try to broach the subject with DH this weekend.

I know that things can't carry on. Whatever the cause things are not 100% chez orm.

My dh loved me far more than I loved him during the many many years I was depressed. He even married that knowing it and knowing I was no longer the person he fell in love with.

I am now better, no longer depressed at all. We have talked about it and I cried over how he married me knowing the way it was - how much he values us as a family unit.

I had lots of pyscotherapy to help with my depression and it helped hugely and we have both made an effort to be truthful with each other over everything (without being unkind/nasty) and to change unhealthy patterns between us.

Having therapy/counselling is very hard emotional it changes your world upside down and back to front but it was well woth it. You do need to see it as a long term treatment and not a quick fix and accept that things may be worse for a while before they get better.

Hi Orm - Oh, I love your humour! And FWIW, when ever anyone uses the word "silly" in relation to adult behaviour, it makes me want to punch them on the nose! Often think that GPs don't get the right "people skills" training at all.

Thanks for updating on your depression - it sounds bi-polar in nature. Getting the medication right for that particular condition can be very hard indeed.

Orm, don't you think your H knows that something is wrong? I don't think it's best to start this journey with a lie, white or otherwise. However, I think the most important thing here is for you to get some counselling, but think that if you sat DH down and said: "Look, you know that we have been having a lot of rows - I want to have some counselling to help us resolve conflicts in a better way. The way I react to things might be related to my depression, but it shocked me as well as you the other day when a row ended up with me saying I wanted a divorce. The depression might be a condition that we've got to live with for the rest of our lives - but I want us to be able to resolve any disagreement we have without things getting out of proportion - and depression medication won't help us to do that."

From what I've read about your DH, he could also do with some help resolving conflicts - I saw your thread the other day about his need to "blame" family members. It was strange reading it. I could really relate to what you were saying - my H can be quite frightening when he raises his voice (to the kids) and he has always been less tolerant than me with them. He is however far more patient and tolerant now - you know my story and the changes my H has made. I also agree with you, I don't like the notion that parents are always right and I think children actually learn a lot when a parent says: "Look, I got this wrong - and I'm sorry".

However - I also thought that if my H said "Oh, who did that?" in a cross fashion now it wouldn't jar much at all. This is because my perspective on him is different. I do know that if you're already full of doubts about someone, even small things they do take on disproportionate significance.

Having thought long and hard about your situation Orm (and do keep posting) I think you might benefit from some counselling on your own first, followed up by some couple counselling. I think you've made an incredibly brave first step this week in finding the name of a counsellor - please take that second step and book an appointment - and don't give up if that counsellor is not the right fit for you.

I think you will be shocked at how liberating (but upsetting) it will be for you to say the truth that dare not speak its name: "I'm here because I'm having doubts about my marriage" but this is the one place where you can be really honest about your feelings.

I also think if you approach this in the way I've suggested with your H, it won't come as a bolt from the blue for him if after a while, you suggest going together for counselling. If I read your H correctly Orm, he will actually do anything to keep his marriage. That's not to say he won't be frightened by all this - but he's probably got so used to living with (possibly unacknowledged) sadness, that any change to the status quo will seem threatening.

Orm, what I'm saying is that you might have to live with depression all your life - but you can take tablets to mitigate against the effects of that. You don't however have to live with dissatisfaction and doubts about your marriage for your whole life - it would be such a wasted opportunity if you didn't try to treat that now.

You know my situation - and I look back now and think of some wasted years with my DH. Like you, I would never have suggested counselling for us, because I had sort of resigned myself to not feeling passion and desire and after so long (and so many attempts to get him to change) I reasoned that he wasn't going to change. So I did quite a number on myself convincing myself that it was all okay really. Plus, I loved him deeply and despite all of my reservations, there were things about him that I did appreciate enormously; his kindness, his work ethic, his desire and pride in me, the gestures he made that showed how much he loved me (resonate Orm? Your H recently surprised you with the anniversary meal?)

When I talk to H now, he describes the feelings of sadness he had, that he loved me more than I loved him. However, it was not something he thought about every day by any means - it was just something he knew. And if someone had asked him two years ago if that were true, I think he would have gasped at the truth that someone had been brave enough to speak...but it's not something that he would ever have confronted. Perhaps your H is the same? In long marriages, so much of this stuff goes unacknowledged - until a crisis situation forces the couple to face up to what has been happening in the marriage.

I feel so very differently about my marriage now, because it's based on truth, honesty, intimacy and really good quality communication between us. We also both know now that we love each other equally and deeply - and that's so empowering.

I try not to rue those fallow years, but I wouldn't want anyone to go through them unnecessarily - or be forced to confront these issues as a result of a crisis like ours.

Thanks everyone.

bluejeans - I am fairly sure that isn't an option but I may speak to the occupational nurse.

alibaba - the GP didn't mention counselling. Nice bloke but as usual I forget everything I wanted to say. I have another prescription for 20mg again. He did ask if I had had any 'silly thoughts'.... 'Yes I wondered if the clouds really are made of candy floss and after planes fly through them do mechanics lick them clean when they land'..... But that wasn't what he meant apparently. I think that was the extent of the counselling. I have however found a name of someone who is supposed to be OK nearby.

Hi Ormirian

Sorry things are a bit crap for you just now. I always enjoy your posts - you are the voice of reason (anti-Halloween thread for example )

I too thought counselling would not be an option for me due to cost, however I was able to get six sessions through work - might this be an option for you?

I spoke to HR as I was struggling to cope with everything and it was starting to affect work and they told me about the staff welfare thing. Thought it was worth mentioning in case your work place has anything. The company paid but I saw an independent counsellor near my home and it was of course anonymous - I only had to fill in a form at the end to say how useful I'd found it which got sent back to work. My boss etc didn't get told I'd been

Hope this helps and good luck

Orm - I have been on ADs for a few months and I've just had a short stint of counselling through my GP. It has been hugely helpful and I will be going back for more in a few months once I've had a chance to work through some things on my own.

Please do think about giving it a go.

Yes your DH is a star for being supportive when you are down and suffering, but there is nothing wrong in it being his turn to bear the burdens. I've followed a few of your threads recently and he has his part to play in this too.