Persistent Other Woman - update

[ElizabethCM]

Hello! A few weeks back I posted about my Dh and a woman he had become involved with. To briefly recap, DH had a one night stand (over two nights ) 6 weeks ago. DH told OW in no uncertain terms that it was a terrible mistake. OW was being persistent and I wondered what to do.

Anyhoo, the matter came to a head when, about a month ago, I asked him to leave for a few days so that I could deal with everything that had happened. When he left I broke my "dignified silence" and texted the OW saying "I have asked DH to leave. he is all yours! Good luck!". It was mean I suppose because I suspected that DH would not pursue a relationship with OW and I guess I wanted her to know and to stop pursuing a relationship that, with or without me, would not happen.

She did not text back but my husband called to say she had tried to call him 400 times in 48 hours and that he was worried she would turn up at our house. He had not spoken to OW or texted her back because he felt like it would fuel the situation.

Anyway, the night after the text OW called ME!! She wanted to know where DH was staying?! I just said "I really can't talk to you". She was hysterical and was saying "I am coming over to your house, why won't you let him talk to me" etc etc. Anyway, I hung up and was in shock. DH returned home that night because he was scared she would come over, his phone rang constantly and finally he picked up. He put the phone on speaker so that I could be confident that nothign was going on. She was hysterical, saying she loved him, what about the sex etc etc. DH kept repeating "I love DW, I'm sorry you are hurt, you can't call anymore" etc etc. It was exhausting and went on for over an hour.

DH later revealed to me that two weeks ago, when he had gone out of town for a football trip, she had "followed" him. He was walking around the city with my sisters partner and she approached them. He said he was mortified and had no idea what to tell sisters partner. She hung around them for an hour or so before he was able to tell her, alone, that she had to leave. Apparently she had booked a hotel room in the hope that he would stay with her. he didn't, my sister has confirmed he stayed at their place.

Ok, this is getting long! I'll wrap up! OW has backed off in last week. She, apparently, has reunited with an ex boyfriend. She invited us both, through an email to DH, to a "madmen" theme party. She has never spoken to DH or to me about the way she behaved the night she called, or the way she behaved generally.

I can't move on, I am full of rage about the way both she and DH behaved and how it nearly ruined my marriage. It hurt so much, we have a ten month DD and it was just a heartwrenching experience I hope never to go through again. DH could not be more contrite. I have forgiven him. We have talked a lot about it. But I feel like I can't move on until I talk to OW about how angry I am/ was. All the way through i was quite respectful and kind and now I am angry at myself for not screaming blue murder at her!!

Even as I write this I know the answer. it's too late to scream at her now isn't it??

[StealthPolarBear]

I'm so sorry
Yes, too late and pointless to scream at her - you'd be handing her power she really doesn't have - as far as she should be concerned you two are back together and she is out of your lives and out of your minds.
I think you need counselling, either together or alone, where you can talk through your feelings towards both of them. I know you have forgiven your DH but I bet you have unresolved issues that you CAN talk about with him - as long as it's done in a contructive way.

[StealthPolarBear]

"All the way through i was quite respectful and kind and now I am angry at myself for not screaming blue murder at her!!"
You kept the upper hand. I bet she wanted you to scream and rant so she could file you under "the mad wife who doesn't understand him" - it would justify her attempts to get him back. Your attitude will have driven her mad!

[ElizabethCM]

Thanks Stealth. I can't believe how long my post was!! Can't believe you read it through! Thanks for your advice. Counselling an excellant idea.

[Rindercella]

Hi Elizabet. I remember your original post. at her behaviour. Fwiw, I think the way you have handled her is the best thing you could've done in the circumstances and keeps the power in your hands, where it belongs. I would suggest that she has some fairly serious issues if her behaviour is anything to go by, not least inviting you & your H to a party again, as if nothing had happened.

How you deal with your H is a completely different matter. It is what he did that is your problem. I agree with Stealth's suggestion that going for counselling could be beneficial. It was a serious betrayal and one that you don't just need to forgive, it's one that you need to better understand and come to terms with.

[StealthPolarBear]

I hope you get something sorted. I know exactly what you mean, I'd be so tempted to call her or write a letter but I just think she'd know she's got to you then.

[ElizabethCM]

Thanks both of you. Counselling is certainly something my DH into and I would consider. Perhaps I am displacing my anger onto her, but I don't think so.. I did kick DH out and we really are sorting through things. He is genuinely very very sorry and has been what I suppose any woman in my position would want her DH to be.

I guess what bothers me is my life has gone through all of this horrible upheaval and pain. In no small part it is through her actions. But she is just skipping along in her life, 'didn't work out with married man so back to my normal life'. ho hum. It bothers me. But I guess I just need to work through it alone or with DH.

Fantasies of a heartfelt apology from OW will probably not be realised

[StealthPolarBear]

karma - she will be bitten on the bum and soon!

[countingto10]

Been in a similar situation with my DH - left me for OW.

Anyway to cut a long story short, I maintained my dignity even though I wanted to tear her limb from limb for what she & DH did to me and my children.

We are now going to Relate and have been for a number of weeks - our marriage will be better and stronger as a result of what happened.

Please go to Relate to sort out your feelings, on your own and with your DH. Your marriage will probably be stronger because of this.

Good luck.

[WhenwillIfeelnormal]

Hello Elizabeth! I'm so pleased you came on here to update us. You have behaved pretty impeccably up to now, but I'm so glad that your anger is coming through now. I remember your earlier post - and you seemed to be still in shock at that point and strangely detached - almost TOO dignified, particularly as you revealed that OW had texted your husband while she was standing next to you both at a works do!

What you have very cleverly managed to do is expose her as a deranged banshee and (although it doesn't sound like your DH needed it), any lingering doubts he might have had about her being a decent character must have vanished. Bravo!

I think you've got the best kind of closure for now, in that you got to hear your DH telling her to bugger off and that he loves you. Does he still work with her, BTW? If so, how is that working out? Must be hard for you - and him.

I'm glad you're angry with them both too - this is normal and so healthy. You might want to read a book called "Not Just Friends" by Dr. Shirley Glass. It is all about affair-proofing your future marriage and so accurately describes the horror you have lived with (and are living with). It has some great tips for recovering from infidelity and I feel sure you'll both find it helpful.

I hope he is answering all your questions and giving you the full, unexpurgated story. This is normally essential to move on. I think it was a smart move of yours to get him to move out for a short while, because I did worry before that he might have mistaken your dignity for passivity and more worryingly, permission to do this again. I hope he is under no doubt whatsoever that any repeat of this behaviour will result in the end of the relationship.

Do come on here to discuss your journey in the coming months. So many of us have gone through this awful experience and we really can help. It's brave to fight for your marriage, but you do need some help. Counselling is brilliant - and your DH certainly needs to understand why he ever gave himself permission to do this.

Your story also shows again that (just as the book above identifies) there is a totally new breed of OW out there. Dr. Glass calls them antagonists, in that they have no guilt at what they have done to another family and can quite easily move on to the next target. They feel perfectly justified in hating the wife (and even the children of the marriage) and to them, it is all about competing.

It IS galling to feel that the OW has got off scott free and appears not to have suffered, like you and your DH are suffering. I feel the same, frequently. We have all just got to hope that there really is a thing called karma and rationally, we can all see that women like this are actually pretty unlikely to have a happy life and satisfying relationships, so their existence will be much more impoverished than yours. I don't think it's wise to contact her now, but I do think if she contacts either of you again, take your chance to tell her exactly what you think of her. You can gain some catharsis right now, rehearsing what you can say to her ...

You come across as a genuinely nice woman and therefore you are much more likely to form great friendships with people. Let me guess though, bet OW doesn't have many female friends? Closest friend is her Mum?

Well done to you and good luck, Elizabeth.

[StripeyKnickersSpottySocks]

Have you thought about writing her a letter telling her how you feel. It will help get it all off your chest. But then rip it up and bin it rather than post it, like someone else said maintain the upper hand.

[HolyGuacamole]

Wow, can't believe she had the cheek to invite you to a party

The anger towards her will go away with time and I'd say you would be wasting your time confronting her, she obviously doesn't care, that is apparent from the way she has acted. Try and hold your water and when you feel angry, punch a pillow or come on here and have a good bitch.

It's nice to hear an update and am glad you are getting through this and working it out. TBH, you and your DH working through this and being a stronger couple will have more effect than any amount of shouting.

Good luck.

[MorrisZapp]

I'm used to being the lone voice on this so it's ok to totally disagree with me but... angry with her for what?

You DH is the one who cheated, not her. Her behaviour outlined above is bizarre to say the least but she has backed off now and you and DH are making a go of it.

I just don't get why women have to bear the brunt of other women's anger when it is men who have cheated. Why is it so hard to blame him - he's the one who promised you faithfulness, she owes you nothing.

You're obviousy still angry about what happened but don't want to keep harping on to your DH. Maybe counselling is a good idea. Any contact with OW now will just be grist to her mill and prove to her that you still find her threatening.

[WhenwillIfeelnormal]

Morris - I don't think the OP has any trouble blaming her DH, but I am amazed that you think it is strange for Elizabeth to feel intense anger for the OW. This woman behaved appallingly - and this is not about projecting anger on to women in general, but it IS about projecting anger on to someone who has behaved badly to another human being. Would be the same if it was "another man", this is surely just about us all behaving decently to one another.

BTW, I am similarly amazed at the advice on that other thread where an OP is asking whether she should seek to break up her old flame's new relationship. Some people are saying she should go for it! This man's DP seems to have become a non-person to the MNetters who are advising this.

Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself - and if you don't, you are deserving of anger, from any direction it comes.

[MorrisZapp]

It almost certainly would not be the same if it was 'another man'.

There was a thread here a few weeks ago about a woman who cheated and it got to four pages with absolutely mention of OM far less any use of the words that come up on here time and time again about OWs: slut, whore etc. In fact there aren't male equivalents of these words.

What was the appalling behaviour? She's been a pain in the backside, sure, but then she's been shagged then dumped so perhaps she has her own side to tell too.

I'm sympathetic to OP, of course I am. But one person cheated on her - she's only married to one person. (Unless was her friend or sister in which case of course that's double betrayal).

[HappyWoman]

I too think she had a right to be angry at the ow - the ow knew she was married and then went on to try and make her life a misery.

Should i not be angry with the dickhead who stole my neighbours childs bike and then dumped it down the road after wrecking it. After all none of these people are anything to me, and my anger will serve no purpose whatsoever.

Sorry if i am a member of the human race who would like to treat others as i would like to be treated.

And the op was angry at her h too - its just that is easier to forgive and move on when you are able to see the pain that person is in as with a partner. When the ow seems to show no remorse for any of the pain she has (even unknowingly) caused i think we all have a right to be angry on Elizabeths behalf.

[HappyWoman]

And without wanting to go over it again and again, there is evidence that men and woman DO see affairs very differently.

Men do tend to want to have their cake and eat it, and not 'ruin' their marriage, whereas woman who cheat see it as a sign there is a real problem in the marriage.

Woman who affairs are more likely to leave their spouses. Men rarely leave for ow.

Usually ow are rarely content to be just that ow, and will often 'force' the issue.

I know these are generalizations and each case is different but surely we all do know that if we are the ow we can expect to get some abuse - it may not be fair but thats life.

[WhenwillIfeelnormal]

I remember that thread too Morris, but I wasn't one of the people posting. I'm pretty consistent on this issue. Anyone (male or female) who knowingly enters into a relationship with someone who is committed to a monogamous relationship with someone else, is behaving appallingly, in my view.

Even if you don't agree with that point of view, to then act so abysmally towards the woman whose life you were disrupting, further compounds that appalling behaviour.

I echo your view Morris about the double standards that we so often see on Mumsnet, but I cannot see it as progress to blithely say that affair partners "owe the spouse nothing". We ALL owe it to each other to act decently, as fellow members of the human race, don't we?

[sayithowitis]

Well said WWIFN. Whilst the OW does not owe Elizabeth, or indeed any cheated on wife, anything personally, as a decent human being we all owe it to ourselves and each other to act in a decent fashion towards others. I also believe that anyone, male or female, who knowingly enters into a relationship with a person who is already in a comitted relationship, whether that be a marriage or otherwise, is acting appallingly and is not a decent human being.

[countingto10]

Here, here WWIFN, I couldn't agree with you more. My DH is now really struggling with his guilt etc for allowing OW to manipulate, influence, whatever into leaving me. He is as angry with her as he is with himself. He feels he was a fool for being so manipulated, taken in etc and thanks god that he realised what he/she was doing whilst he still had a chance to save our marriage. As someone else said in a previous thread, he can't even consider the OW a friend because what friend wants you to destroy your marriage.

I am also so very angry that another woman could want to do that to another woman and 4 innocent DC - she really was/is a nasty piece of work (sent me vicious texts etc). I maintained my dignigy throughout thank god.

Relate is helping both me and DH realise how our marriage reached this horrendous point - faults on both sides etc.

[expatinscotland]

I agree with MorrisZapp, but then, I'd have seen what your 'D'H did as a dealbreaker and divorced him on grounds of adultery.

Each to her own.

Best of luck dealing with this, ElizabethCM.

[HecatesTwopenceworth]

even inviting you to the party is probably aimed at your husand - make him jealous! in her mind, he'll go, see her with another man and realise he wants her.

[EldonAve]

Having read your other threads, I'm confused

Does your DH work or study? I thought you were about to leave him because he didn't want any more kids?

[MorrisZapp]

Ok the neighbours kids bike is an inanimate object. Stealing it is wrong - only the theif an take responsibility for that action.

But you can't steal a person. People in relationships face temptation every day but have to face up to their commitments and say NO.

Of course, it's easier to say stuff about manipulative women etc than to face up to real trouble on our own doorsteps.

Men aren't wallets lying in the streets. They have free will and will only do what they want to. I can't stand this infantilising stuff - it actually insults men as it suggests that grown adult men can be made to break their most strongly heldvows and beliefs by the force of a conniving woman.

It is not up to women to make sure that men do not cheat, it is up to men. I know it's a minority view on here but I will stick to it, I can't stomach seeing women get the blame for mens actions. God knows the tabloids, talk shows etc love it when women 'cat fight' but I think that's letting the actual bad guy off the hook.

[WhenwillIfeelnormal]

And I can't stand seeing women getting off the hook for their own bad behaviour, just as much as I can't stand apologists for male behaviour. My stance on this is quite simple. In an affair, both parties are blameworthy.

I don't think anyone is saying here that they blame the OW exclusively. The OP herself is excoriating in her blame of her DH, which is quite right too. But I think she is absolutely entitled to detest the actions of the OW, not least because of her behaviour after the affair was over.

[MorrisZapp]

In my own experience and seen on here many times over, cheaters tell lies. So they lie to their wife and they lie to the OW.

How many men tell the OW that their wife is cold, doesn't love them, they're only together for the children, they have an open relationship, they don't have sex any more etc ?

It's the cheaters doing the manipulation - they're the ones having to lie on a daily basis and connive their way out of every tricky situation.

I just don't get how it can be equally bad for somebody who has stood up in church and sworn to love somebody exclusively until they die to cheat and somebody who is single and hasn't promised anybody anything.

Nobody can help their feelings. I've never been in that position and no doubt I'd be having dark thoughts about the OW if my other half cheated on me. But for dispassionate people on here to join in the hating is irrational.