Great idea Annie! Leaving them with the bill would make a change, they're not exactly the 'generous' type. I think not having to put up with them anymore is a major upside to the whole situation! My sis told me a hilarious story about when her marriage broke up years ago. Her mother in law (from hell) gave them a hideous dinner service as a wedding present and when he left her and the kids, she had a 'Greek Night' with said service and had a brilliant night with her mates.
xx

Welcome back, Wendynut! So glad to hear you are enjoying life and attracting the right sort of attention.

In-laws: up to you, I guess. If they are very keen to see the children, perhaps you could meet them somewhere on neutral territory for a couple of hours. Like have an extended lunch in a child-friendly pub or some such. If they start to be insufferable you can just say briskly that you have to be going now, pack up the offspring and leave them with the bill to it.

Hmm, wine you say... *wanders off to rummage in cupboard*

Hi DM and all

Again, apologies for being out of the MN loop for a while. I sit at a computer all day now at work and tend not to sit at my laptop at home in the evening. Seeing as it's Friday night and i've actually got some spare time (and armed with a glass of wine ), I thought I'd see how you all are.
H is viewing flats at the mo and he's still here everyday which is a bit wearing (especially at the weekends) but I'm also glad of the help with the DC's.
DM, I know that you weren't belittling what I felt. You are such a great person, I know that you would never mean anything like that! How's it going with your DH lately? Have you had any improvements or breakthroughs? I hope you have because if not, then we've both been stuck in this bloomin' nunnery for far too long!
Tiredoftherain - Haven't heard anything from you for ages, how's it all going? Don't know if you've been posting on another thread but will be having a look around MN tonight so will look out for you.
I've been feeling much better about being on my own lately and I can honestly say that there is no way that I'd ever get back together with H and that alone makes me feel so much better. I went out for a drink with my sister a couple of weeks ago and I wore a clingy little black number (that I bought post break up) and it felt great! We were in a really nice bar and my sis noticed quite a few guys checking us out (which was thrilling but terrifying!) because she's so good at noticing bloke stuff whereas I barely notice anything! Does being married for so long make us blind and numb to other males? I'm going to the company Xmas dinner on the Saturday before Xmas and I'm really looking forward to it. I haven't been to anything alone for many years so it'll be really good.
I've got my in-laws from France visiting at the end of this month and they'd normally stay at my house for 2 nights to see us all, but I don't know how to play it this time. They're staying in a B&B and hopefully H will have moved into his new place by then. I've never liked them much and they've tried to make contact a couple of times since he left us but I haven't responded, I just haven't known what to say. Any advice anyone on the best way to tackle this?
xx

Looking at what I wrote yesterday, hope you don't think I was belittling what you felt at your H's reaction, I was trying to say in a clumsy way, that because you have been so amazing in all this,( and mathanxiety is absolutely right), you can deal with it as a small thing, and compared to everything else that has happened it is only 'small', and you are already dealing with it. [trying to get foot out of mouth halloween emoticon]And, you are certainly not an idiot, far from it. Stay strong x

Hi Wendy, I am fine at the moment thank you, having an 'up' time, so making the most of it!

I'm so sorry to hear about your little setback, and it must have hurt like hell, but looking at it positively, it's enabled you ( or empowered you even) to put him in his place and set your rules.

I have to take DS out now, but will be back. x

Hi everyone
DM - I'm glad you're pursuing you're interests and focussing on things that are just for you.
I'm going to try and take a leaf out of your book and do that myself (needs to be my studies really) because it's all work and no play here! Have you come to any conclusions yet about the HRT route, how have you been feeling?
MATHANXIETY - When I read you're comment at the bottom of your post the other day I nearly burst into tears! That's one of the nicest things anyone has said to me and made me feel really happy, thankyou! I totally agree with you about lack of affection, it was the one thing (out of all the other bad things) that I just couldn't carry on with which is why I said he had to go if there was no future for us.
TIREDOF - Great to hear from you again! You're H has done some unforgivable things, it's really shocking. I'm the same, I'm finding it really difficult to think of myself as single and it is very scary. I don't know when I'll ever have the courage to get to know another man, I think it's too soon for me anyway.
Well, you won't believe what I went and did this morning. Things had been going well with H and I lately and unfortunately I misread things this weekend and made a fool of myself this morning which set my progress back quite a bit.
I've found it very hard to switch off loving him, even though he's treated me like crap for so long. Getting on well together, seeing each other every day and every weekend and hanging out together has blurred everything for me and I haven't been letting go. I texted him at 6ish this morning and asked him out for a drink on Friday night (I know, I know) and got one back saying that yes, we've been getting on better with each other lately, but there's no way we can get back together so I'd be better off going out with my sister instead. God I'm an idiot! It brought it all back to me and hurt all over again and made me realise how bloody alone I am now. It made the day really tough but I had a chat with my family earlier and that helped. I told him that it's all got to change from now on because it's hurting me all the time and it's stopping me from living my own life. I said that he can see the kids on Wednesday (we're out tomorrow night) and he'd better get on with sorting his own place out.
Has anyone got any advice about this or when feeling like crap will ever end?
x

Hi wendy and all, so sorry I haven't posted for weeks on this thread, have been thinking of you but have had technical issues which have kept me off MN for ages - torture!

I'm so pleased you're moving forwards. I'm in a really similar situation and know exactly how hard it is. I haven't been single since I was 21 and haven't a clue where to start now I'm over a decade older with 2 little ones. The future is scary but also exciting. I'm so looking forward to being in a healthy relationship some day, even if it takes a while to get there.

I experienced the same withdrawal of physical and emotional affection as you and it really is soul-destroying, that's exactly the right expression. H told me not to take it personally, how do you not?

In H's case there was definitely at least one OW, I'm still so shocked at that. He continues to deny what I see as concrete evidence. There were 3 dc's aged under 3 when this started, and some of the details have been really hard to take. OW visited our home and went out with H and the dc's (300 miles from hers) when I was away at a family funeral for example. It's such low behaviour, I know I don't want him back.

Well done on your job, that's a massive achievement. Keep posting and I'll follow your progress!! Hugs to you x

"one thing that I've realised is that in a relationship, no-one has the right to withhold the basics, the things that people as part of a couple have the right to enjoy. Especially not to the serious detriment of the other, deprivation of affection is soul destroying and eats away at you, you spend most of the time wondering what it is that you did wrong."
Jumping in on this thread, hi everyone. This is really the most soul-destroying thing one person can do to another, imo. I went through this and felt I was being slowly killed. Turned out exH was gay (or at least bi). There were lots of other bad behaviour issues too, but that was the deal breaker for me. It was the last thing I would have suspected.

Wendy, you sound so together, I am in awe.

Wendy, noticed someone elsewhere mentioned the website fortysixty.org. Worth a look, interesting!!

Hi Wendy and thank you for understanding. I do think it's a bit of a funny (or not so funny)age thing with me that I am so way up and down, felt terrible Saturday for some reason, went to the shops and cried on the way! By the time I got back I was ok again, so am wondering about the HRT route to see if it helps. Won't help with the other problem, but might make me feel better generally? Need to suss out risks and benefits first. Might well make me feel more 'frisky and that won't do will it?!

You sound so positive, it's really great to see, and sounds like you are going to make the time to work out who you are. I have decided to pursue my photography hobby and join the local camera club,(woohoo, very exciting!!)as something just for me. DH goes walking, and we now walk together as a family too so I thought I would find time for myself. Good for us eh? Take care x

Hi DM and all

Again, apologies for my absence. By the time I finally get home and get everything/everyone sorted out I fall into bed by 9:30! Wow, what's happened to me?
DM, I know exactly how you feel but there's nothing wrong with feeling sorry for yourself. I know others have problems of all shapes and sizes, but that doesn't mean that what upsets you isn't valid. I've spent so many years thinking the same thing while not accepting that anything might be 'wrong' and believing that because of our history and longevity that we were rock solid, I was certainly always led to think so. I might sound like 'the woman who's husband has left her', but one thing that I've realised is that in a relationship, no-one has the right to withhold the basics, the things that people as part of a couple have the right to enjoy. Especially not to the serious detriment of the other, deprivation of affection is soul destroying and eats away at you, you spend most of the time wondering what it is that you did wrong. I'm not saying that we don't have weaknesses and bad points, but like you, all I ever wanted to do was talk (I didn't stop talking for 4 whole months to try and save us, but unfortunately I was the only one doing it and it was all to myself) and sort things out but I think they hear what they want to.
It is very frustrating, they project their own faults and problems onto you as if you're to blame for everything.
I know that it's early days for me, but isn't hindsight a wonderful thing? Little by little, I'm starting to piece together (with small realisations) how things have slid over the last year or so, the changes in him. I'm just concentrating on working, trying to pick my studies up again and figuring out what the hell I'm actually like, because I don't think I really know!
I read you last post and got tough about the training, and it worked! I kind of know what I'm doing now which is a bonus
Hopefully, H will have sorted out where to live by the end of the month, he's no bother at my sisters because he's hardly there he works so much. He's also here for the rest of the time which I'm getting pretty sick of to be honest. I think it'll be an enormous shock when he does get his own place, he'll be totally on his own. The work situation is still ongoing for him and might be resolved next week so we'll see.
I really hope you're feeling ok, stay strong and be happy
x

Hi Wendy, good to hear from you, I guessed you were extra busy and having to get used to new routines. Be tough about the training, so many places just expect you to get on with it!

I've been a bit up and down lately, sometimes I can cope and deal with things and at other times I get angry and feel sorry for myself. Then I see some of the things on here that others are dealing with and it puts things back into perspective for me. I don't actually have much to complain about in the great scheme of things!

What is your H going to do about where he is going to live? The work situation must be worrying too, as you say he has shot himself in the foot; must be making him seriously think about what he's done and where he's going. You, on the other hand are dealing with everything and a new job.

It made me smile when I read about him saying you couldn't relax, and now he can't - this has happened to me too - I have been told of several things that apparently I don't do, when actually it's DH that doesn't! He has said we don't 'talk' about things, I am so willing to talk about anything and everything, that's the way I deal with stuff, but he just clams up. I find it very frustrating!

Hi DM and everyone

Sorry haven't posted for a while, last week was pretty frantic. Started new job last Tuesday and it's been going quite well. I'm getting the hang of it but it's been very much 'in at the deep end' and there is a lack of training which is annoying, I'll have to be firmer next week and insist on it.
I was really nervous last week and was also rushing around picking up DD's, trying to feed them and then take to various clubs and H was away overnight a few times so it was fraught to say the least but I was very glad when Friday night came around!
Relations with H were tough last week too, I found myself feeling so angry towards him, I think because I was stretched so thinly and had so much to deal with. I also felt sick of continuously having to be 'strong' and having no choice but to deal with scary situations all of the time, but I felt calmer by the end of the week and more in control.
I think that he's really shot himself in the foot with all this, he's still at my sister's (which won't be for much longer but she doesn't mind) so is in limbo with no proper home and is living out of a bag, some other smaller things have been going wrong for him and some big changes are happening at work which are very stressful and have taken away his security in his position. He'd never admit it though, it's unbelievable how stubborn he is, I couldn't see it very clearly before.
My sister noticed on Friday how he never sits down and is constantly moving and we both noted how irritating it is and makes you feel quite uptight because it's so hard to relax around him. I'd noticed this years ago but the funny thing is, one of the main reasons he quoted for falling out of love with me was my 'inability to relax' and being uptight all the time! I pointed out HIS inability to relax on Friday and the effect it has on others and the look on his face was priceless! Oh the irony!
How are things with you DM, still all going ok?
x

How is the new job going Wendy? Hope it's ok!

Hi DM and all

It sounds like you had a great birthday weekend DM. Happy birthday!
I didn't get the other job so I accepted the other one and I start on Tuesday! Wow I'm nervous, I really hope it goes well. Oh H has just arrived, I'll carry on chatting later
x

Wendy, that's brilliant, well done! Have you heard about the other one yet?

I had a nice birthday weekend, the actual day was Monday when I was working, but had lovely cards (with very nice words), cake, fizz and presents. Think I might be 95 before I get 'that' sort of present and by then I won't remember why I wanted it!

well done wendy - dont forget you are still on that emotional rollercoaster though and will still have some lows - and it is ok to feel that and have a cry too if you want. Take time to grieve for what you have lost and spend some time finding out about you again now.

Good luck with the other job too.

Hi DM (and all)
Sorry, WWIFN is short for WhenwillIfeelnormal who has posted too. I'm still trying to get the hang of these abbreviations!
I'm so glad you've spoken to your DH and are feeling better for talking to him. Knowing that you are on the right track and looking to the future together is such a great feeling and I'm so happy for you.
How did your birthday evening go? Hope you had a fab time even if you've got to wait a bit longer for your main 'present'!
Well I've got some news... the job that I said seemed a bit dull (first interview)...
I GOT IT!!! They rang me on Friday afternoon which was quick considering I only had the interview the day before. I said I'll think about it and get back to them by Wednesday and hopefully, I should hear about the other one today or tomorrow. Not bad eh? First interview in years and I get the job yahoo!
I'll take it if the other one doesn't come through, it's completely different from what I used to do pre-DD's but intriguing.
Had a relaxing weekend with H. Sis and dad popped round on Saturday and it was H's 40th birthday yesterday which was strange. I don't think he really knows what to do with himself (apart from working) and he seemed a bit down which is not like him. We made him a cake and gave him a couple of presents (from the DD's) and had a nice day really. He thanked me when he left last night, he wasn't expecting it and he had no intention of celebrating it after what he's done, so it was a nice surprise for him. I said that even though he's a cold-hearted jerk, I wouldn't have ignored his birthday!
It hit me just as he was going and I had to hold it together as we said goodbye then I shut the door and cried. It wasn't the sort of crying like before, when it hurt so damn much to see him go and wishing he'd turn around and come back to us. It was just an unbelievable sadness at the waste of it all. At the fact that my husband's 40 and look at the state of his life (and ours).
I feel very lively and energetic today and am waiting for the phone to ring so that I can make some decisions about work. I can't believe how much has happened in not quite 3 weeks, it's all a bit of a blur really.
Hope you are all well
x

Aaah, Wendy, you have brought a tear to my eye! You are doing really well now you aren't in limbo any more looking back at your first post, you have come through the worst I think.

I am ok, actually plucked up the courage to say what I was feeling to DH last weekend, it was just getting to me so much. I said I needed a cuddle when we were in bed,(which we did) and that I missed him. He said he was feeling much better in himself and about us, and it gave me the feeling that we are very, very slowly moving back in the right direction. Looking back to how were were this time last year we have improved 100%, it was bad. So, I feel better at having got everything off my chest for now at least, and I am going to continue to talk to him about it rather than bottling it all up. I still feel impatient at times, but think this is the way I have to deal with it, as I know him best.

We are going out for my birthday tomorrow night which I am looking forward to, though not expecting that 'present' that we mentioned a while back!

Take care and hope you have a good evening with your sister and H later!

PS what's WWIFN?!

Hi DM (and everyone else)

Thankyou all for your positive and helpful posts, I can't tell you how much they lift my spirits and cheer me up!
Well, the interviews went well (I think!), especially the second one which is for the job that interests me more. At the first interview, the director of the family company (one of their sons) looked so nervous as well as being much younger than me, it really made me laugh and helped me to relax. That job seemed quite dull and not for me but we'll see about the other one, you never know!
Contact with my H has been very good, he comes to the house straight from work everyday and we all have dinner together, he helps with the DD's and things around the house, then he goes to my sister's for the night. At weekends (tomorrow will be the third one) he arrives each morning and leaves in the evening when girls are in bed. It is strange but harder for me than for him because seeing him brings so many different feelings to the surface that I have to keep under control, whereas a lot of those feelings are gone for him. Saying that, I've found that I want him less and I haven't cried for a few days. Each time I see him it gets a little easier. I know that there is no way around seeing him as often because I want this level of contact with the DD's and as far as I'm concerned, it should stay that way. He's been haring around the country on business since Wednesday and been away the last 2 nights and I feel calmer and more 'rational' IYSWIM? The girls and I have settled into a routine which isn't much different from before he left because he wasn't home til late anyway and left very early.
Being 'brave' yesterday and pushing myself has made me feel really strong and I like it. I've got no idea what the future will bring but I know that I want to make it so good, the absolute best that I can. My sis is coming round tonight for some fun and a few drinks so I told H that he can have dinner with us and then to spend some time with the girls back at sis's house with her DH, cousins and kittens and to bring girls home later. It will be odd with just of the 2 of us in the house but I'm really looking forward to it.
Hope things are going well for you DM and you are such a kind person WWIFN.
x

Hope the interviews went well!

Hi Wendy, good to hear from you, wow 2 interviews, that's really something these days!

I'm with HappyWoman about your friend, she probably wanted to spare you the upset of people asking you seemingly innocent questions, so her motives were good.

Of course you will have bad days, but you are having more positive ones too, and they will increase as time goes on and you achieve more for yourself: you are a very strong person I think! What you are achieving is what I was trying to explain about my 'tasks' each one makes you stronger. However, rant all you like here when you need to.

I'll be thinking of you Thursday, please let us know how you get on, maybe you will have two jobs to choose from! x

Wendy - glad you are feeling better today and so pleased you were able to talk to your daughters. It's great news about the interviews too. Working will make the world of difference to your esteem and it will open up a totally new set of horizons for you.

I have always noticed a pattern that develops after people have gone through a horrible crisis (myself included). Suddenly, good things start to happen to that person. Opportunities come out of the blue and good news starts to come through. As a Christian, I will say up front that I have always believed that when we need it most, this is God's way of helping us all through the toughest times. However, what ever you believe about a higher order, I sense that after these truly awful few months, the only way is up for you now.

Don't be embarrassed about your tears at school. I think we all know that kindness when we are still raw always generates tears! Keep strong and keep posting Wendy. What's the contact been like with your H?

you are allowed to rant - and good luck with the interviews - it will be a real boost to your self-esteem and even if you dont get these jobs you have done so well in such a short space of time and should very proud of yourself.

Thanks HW,
Sorry about the rant yesterday, it was a very odd day. Feeling more like myself today and had some good news yesterday afternoon, I've got another interview! It's on the same day as the other one (Thursday) and I feel really excited. I know that it's scary but I've got to turn that into a positive. Had a talk with the DD's last night and made the situation clearer for them, especially for my youngest who didn't know what was going on. It was hard but they seemed to be ok which is the main thing. Hope everyone on here is ok?
x

its ok to have low days - sometimes it is your bodies way to tell you to just give in for a while.
Try to think of some of the good things you have achieved and not see the down side. But i know this is easier said than done.

It is hard for others to know how to react - i am sure your friend meant well - even if it has made you cross for now.

Thanks Nananina and DM for your support and help. I feel really low right now, can't seem to keep the tears at bay. Have been doing ok for the last few days, have even got a job interview on Thursday which was a real boost. For some reason I'm a complete wreck today, feel desperately lonely, angry and upset. I got a call from my mum a little while ago to see how I am and it all caved in after that.
Cried in youngest DD's school this morning after deputy head said some very kind things and that she'd been through it herself, so was frantically tying to blink tears away and get out. The friend that I've referred to in an earlier post works at the school and has told everyone there. I had the head come up to me at the end of last week, she was really nice but I could have done without the world and his wife knowing my private business. I'm a very private person anyway and this has really annoyed me.
I'm quite scared about the interview, worried about money and the rate that DH goes through it for work, totally bloody hating being on my own and having to put a brave face on everything all of the time and worried about DD's and how they're coping. Sorry about my rant but I've had enough today.

Hi Wendy, good advice there from NanaNina about counselling and dealing with grief. I agree with all she says.

I was very lucky with mine, which is why I have such a positive attitude to it I suppose. I went privately, to someone who was recommended, but wasn't cheap, and that was some 14 years ago. I was in an unhappy marriage which just wasn't going anywhere, and I suppose I wanted some advice on what to do with the rest of my life. My counsellor and I just sat in her house and talked - well I talked a lot, and through her comments and questions she made me think about what I really wanted, which was to leave. I was worried about what everyone would think and say rather than about what was best for me, and helped me realise that I deserved to be happy and that a lot of things weren't my fault. My XDH was a nice man, but fond of going to the pub more than being with me, and was more of a friend than anything else. (Still is!) She didn't actually give me tasks to do each week, but I felt as though I wanted to go back each time to tell her something positive that I had done. It was really 'empowering' and just turned me into a more positive person. I had a lot of empathy with her and felt I could tell her anything, without being judged or dictated to. I suspect that women are more used to saying how they feel than men and therefore find it easier in counselling?

I have no experience, but think it's probably quite normal that your girls are acting the way they are, confused and angry. Good idea for you both to talk to them, and at least they can hear what you both have to say together, rather than two different sides. I'm sure others will have some ideas on this part of it.

I am fine myself, no further progress but quite happy really, in a weird sort of way! Don't want to hijack your post, because it's you that needs the support now.

Take care and be kind to yourself. x

Me again - just noticed you asked what counselling was all about and what you can expect to get out of it. Firstly it is not a magic bullet and won't take the pain away. However, it does sometimes help to talk about your feelings with someone right outside of the situation. The "agenda" is yours and a good counsellor will merely manage the process and mostly listen initially to how you are feeling etc. before making a agreat deal of comment. I wonder if you are feeling wary about what a counsellor may want to discuss but remember that is up to you and you only discuss what you want/need to. If she goes on to something that you are not ready for then say so and she should back off. However counselling is also about challenging some beliefs/attitudes that we have and this can be helpful if done in a sensitive way, and help us to see things from a different angle.

I would not necessarily rush into counselling however as you are still so raw and have good support in any event. You could always read around bereavement and grieving to reassure yourself about the process that you are going through and this might help a little. A good book I read when bereaved was "A grief Observed" by C.S.Lewis. It is about the death of his wife but the first sentence says "I never knew grief felt so much like fear" and that hooked me as that was exactly how I felt. He also talks about "red hot memories" hitting you on the back of the neck when you're not looking and you will get those too I'm afraid. Oh god why is life so bloody dtough .........do take care and keep posting as I think you will get excellent support here.

Hi Wendynut - feel a bit like an intruder here as you are getting such good advice and empathy from women in similar situations. However just thought I would reassure you that what you are feeling is absolutely normal in the circumstances. Bereavement is about loss (of any kind not just death) and you will be going through the stages of bereavement which are things like denial, anger, sadness, hurt, guilt, etc and the problem is that they don't go forward in a straight line. You will sometimes take 2 steps forward and 1 step back and the hurt will be huge, there is just no getting away from it. There is no short cut I'm afraid - it's a cliche I know but it is only time that heals and allows you to come to some sort of acceptance.

As far as counselling is concerned, I think so much depends on the counsellor, so try to find a good one and make sure they are affiliated to the British Association of Counsellors/physcotherapists (on google). Not sure if you can afford private counseling but hope you can find the money as waiting for an NHS one is sometimes a long job, or could you try Relate. The main thing is that you feel comfortable with whoever you see and the first session should be about making sure that this is the case. The first few sessions will be difficult and tiring (try to arrange to sleep after) bereavement is draining anyway and counselling on top is more so. I do think however this would be a good support for you at the present time as you are going through one of life's most truly awful experiences.

As you will see from others on here you will come through............over time, and the rawness of the hurt will ease, but only in time. In the meantime, try to stay as strong as you can for your girls (you sound such a lovely mom) so I am sure that you will always put their needs first. Alos try to look after yourself physically as much as possible, eat healthily and get as much sleep as possible.

Sending you good wishes.

Hi DM

DD's are back to school thanks and it's good to get them back into a routine. How is everything going with you, any progress?
We talked for a long time last night, he didn't get back to my sisters until midnight. It's definitely over and there doesn't seem to be any going back for him and it hurt all over again. I think that we need to have a proper talk with the DD's on Friday night and explain things more clearly. Youngest DD is confused and seems to be fighting with older one more often and lashing out, older DD has suddenly grown up and seems strained. I changed some things in the house this morning, photo's and things like that, to make it feel more 'mine'. I seem to be on the verge of tears nearly all of the time and cry very easily, is this normal? I suggested counselling last night but he couldn't see any point to it.
My IL had sent me an email but it was in my spam folder (he spoke to them yesterday) and he said that they thought it was a shame they couldn't talk to the children or me. I said that all they had to do was pick up the phone so I don't know what that's all about.
What did you get out of counselling if you don't mind me asking? In what ways was it helpful? I have no experience of it and don't know how to approach it.
Take care
x

Good to hear from you Wendy. It's all sad, but you have already made some decisions, and it's good to hear that you are determined to carry on with your course. As I have said before, I have had good experiences from counselling, if you get the right one of course, and all the better if you are both willing to try it. I suppose you would be going into it with an idea of finding out why this has happened and not necessarily a reconciliation? Even if he doesn't want to go, it may help you, it was the making of me.

My XILs didn't contact me either, my XH asked me to call them after he had told them of the split, which I did, but it was all very awkward, as I was still very fond of them. I think my ex MIL partly blamed him anyway. We didn't have children though, which made it easier. I think they were really upset and just didn't know what to say, and didn't want to appear to take sides, so it may be the same with yours too? Take care, hope your girls are ok back at school. x

Sorry, hi DM too!
x

Hi Whenwill
Been feeling pretty low today (and yesterday) thanks. DH was here for the first time on Saturday, I left him to it at home with the DD's for a few hours and then took them away so we could talk. It was very awkward at first and I got a few things off my chest and he went to stay at my sisters that night, he's been there for every night so far.
He was with us all day Sunday and after work every night including tonight. I want him to see the kids and I've needed his help each night and the stupid thing is that it all feels so normal. When my sister asked him how things had gone on the first night, he said it was like he'd got his best friend back and that's exactly what I'd said to her beforehand (but he didn't know that).
I did our finances this afternoon and we can't afford to support another household as well as our own, so I'm going to break the news to him later. I'm job hunting but it won't be easy as I've been a SAHM for 13yrs but do want to get out there now and not only have some more money coming in, but meet new people and have more of a 'life'. This is as well as doing my nutritional therapy course, which is what I want to do above everything.
I've been thinking about counselling today and saying to DH that I think we should go, we've got nothing to lose really.
I'm still positive there is no OW and nothing has happened or come to light to indicate anything like that. My IL rang the house on the night of my birthday 3 times but I was at my sisters and they didn't leave a message. He told me that he'd rung and told them last Tuesday (the day after he left) and I still have heard nothing from them! You would think that they'd pick the phone up (they live in France), at the very least to see if their granddaughters were alright. I must say, it doesn't surprise me that much, hiding from emotions and not facing up to things runs in the family.
Hope you're well
x

I was wondering that too.

Hi Wendynut - how are you today?

Thinking of you today Wendy and over the weekend: you will get through it x

Wendy I can feel your pain just by reading this. You are in an awful situation and I'm glad your friend is being supportive and also your family.

You know only too well what a lot of us think on here and I wondered whether you had considered that this might actually be a good thing (if there is an OW)? I know that sounds strange, but if you really do want to fight for your marriage, it might help you to think that up until now, it has been impossible to compete. Most affairs are about escapism, they very often happen at key life catalysts (illness in family, milestone birthday looming) and for a time, people in the grip of them go through a kind of temporary insanity.

For a time, while these things take place in an illicit bubble, it is impossible for the unknowing spouse to compete. They have no idea there is anything to compete for and so they go about their daily lives as normal, knowing deep down that something is not right, but not being able to put their finger on quite what it is. It is not a level playing field and therefore the comparisons many adulterers make between the affair partner and their life partner are odious and unrealistic.

Normally, once the shit has really hit the fan and the affair starts to intrude on reality, people "wake up" and come to their senses. Sometimes this takes a while though.

If he really has decided (with no outside influences) that he wants out of the marriage, then I think you should cut your losses and accept that.

You might need to think "Ok, if it IS an affair, what would I want if he ended it and asked to come back?" Really consider that question. If the answer is that (with conditions) you would have him back, then there might be some hope for this marriage. But as long as he maintains his story of there being no-one else, you can't deal with the reality.

My advice to you, either if he wants out for good, or just THINKS he wants out because he's having an affair, is the same, actually.

Continue what you're doing in making him realise the seriousness of this. In a few days time, book an appointment with a solicitor and tell him (by text) that this is what you are doing. Start making noises about finances and future plans generally. Act tough, even if you feel anything but inside.

Once he sees that you are taking control of your life and have appeared to have accepted that it is really over (you might even want to feign relief that you can now move on with your life) it might just be the thing that causes him to "wake up".

Take support wherever you can over the coming weeks and stick to your guns Wendy. View this as a task that you must accomplish - you see, by taking control at last, you are now in fight mode and at the moment, you think he is the prize. You might just find that at the end of all this, you don't want him, though and that will be his (and so many other men's who have gone this way) tough luck.

Thinking of you.

PS - in-laws can also be a revelation. My MIL disowned H for 6 weeks 'until he has the guts to call me and wants to explain himself'. She's a right old pain at times but that made me very fond of her indeed.

I'm so sorry... this is awful. Like many others I'd be soooo suspicious. Far too much staying in hotels and so on - can you check on him eg by ringing the next hotel room he stays in to see who picks up. Christ, even put on a silly voice and pretend to be reception asking to speak to "Mrs Wendynut" in the room, because she dropped her purse and it's been handed in (or something). The pattern of what he's doing is exactly what I went through during my H's affair btw, that's why I'm saying this. The distancing, emotionally and physically, then saying 'I don't think I love you anymore".

Of course, this was because he was interested in someone else. Also, a friend of ours just did this to his wife - of course, he could look her in the eye and say 'there's no-one else' because he was only flirting with his colleague at the time and luckily (for his balls, if I had got hold of him), decided to set to work on the marriage, not the colleague. I am glad you kicked him out, though - often actually seeing the consequences of such actions and having to slum it on sofas etc makes people remember why their relationship and married life was actually better than being single after all.

wendy - it will be a very up and down time for a while yet. Be kind to yourself and take all the help you can.

Dont expect any support from his parents - just tell them what has happened and ask them to talk to him. They will always support him and will take his side and will believe that it was you who drove him to this. I say this from bitter experience - my MIL was foul to me when my h had his affair and blamed me for him staying.

Small steps now.

Thanks to everyone for your kind comments. Still feeling numb and all at sea really, one minute I think I feel a little better, then something happens or something pops into my head and I'm back to square 1. Had first contact with him yesterday. I didn't want to but it was a case of having to and it was only by text thank god because I just can't handle hearing his voice right now. He'd texted my eldest DD a couple of times on Tuesday, in the first one he asked how she and her little sis were and how I was. He said he was sorry about the night before (when he left) and that he never meant to hurt her. She said she was ok but she'd been on a pre-arranged day out with her friends on Tuesday and stayed there overnight in the end (her friend's mum has been a good friend to me and has been great to talk to over the last couple of days, she's been through it too). In the second text he asked if she'd had a good day with her mates (and asked again how I was). He texted her again yesterday to say he was going to ring them last night and to tell him the best time to do it. That's when I texted him and just said to ring them at 8pm on the home phone and that we also have to make arrangements for the weekend and to only contact me by text. I also told him that I need to know how much is being spent on B&B's and he only stayed in the Bracknell one the night he left. He stayed at a work colleague's house Tuesday night (who is going through a divorce at the moment) and I know he was in a hotel in Hull last night on business.
I don't know how to organise this for the weekend, I don't know if he's intending to drive back to his friend's house on Sunday night. His friend is in St. Albans and his house is in the process of being sold so I know that can't last too long. I'm glad he's not in a B&B because that will be too expensive to maintain.
God it was hard when he rang the kids, I could hear him asking eldest DD how she was and she said not too bad. He asked if mum was upset and she said sometimes, yes. Youngest DD broke my heart telling him all about her cuddly toy and then said that she'd be sleeping in mummy's bed tonight again and she didn't know why.
All through these months, he hasn't told his parents anything and I presume he still hasn't because I haven't had a phone call. I know that they'll ring me on my birthday tomorrow so I'll tell them what their bloody son has done then, I won't lie and say nothing. Only my friend that I mentioned earlier knows what's happened and she was so shocked. We went out to dinner with her and her husband a month ago and everything seemed so fine.
On Monday, I was the one who said he had to leave. He was still keeping me at arms length (despite our kiss Friday night) and I said that he hadn't really tried to rebuild the closeness between us, despite me giving him so many opportunities and time. He said that he had been trying, but to him that was just keeping things calm and pleasant (I can't say it was ever pleasant!) on a day to day basis. I asked him if he was ever going to try properly because I'd had enough. I told him that I had nothing more to say, I'd said it all so many times anyway and it was now up to him. So I went upstairs and did some cleaning just to keep me occupied and he sat in the garden for at least an hour while I was doing this and I just knew that it was over. When I went downstairs I asked him what was happening and he said he couldn't see a way forward, his feelings hadn't changed and he didn't think they ever would. He couldn't see any alternative but to leave.
After sorting out the B&B we just looked at each other as if to say this is the point of no return, you've got to go and tell the DD's now. We went upstairs and he packed first, then I called the DD's into our bedroom. Youngest was asking what was wrong anyway and H and I were both crying (god my hands are shaking while I write this). I hugged them both and told them to remember that their dad and I both love them very much and that I was sorry. Then they went round to him and he hugged them and said that he had to go away for a while and that mummy and daddy had been having a hard time with each other. He looked at me and asked 'How far should I go?' and I shook my head at him to say don't you dare start telling them that you don't love me anymore, it's just too much information. He asked them to look after their mum and that it was all his fault and none of it was mine. Then he left.
I know that I've worked my arse off for the last 4 months to hold us together and I can at least hold my head up about that. I really did try. The future is so scary, I'm so shocked at being alone.
x

Wendy, I am so, so sorry, all the time I was hoping that things would work out for you. I can't think of anything else to say, other than to take the advice that others are giving you here. I am thinking of you and your girls, and we are all here for you. You can get over this, you have been the strong one all along, and you can keep going, but be kind to yourself for the next few days x

Oh Wendy I am so sorry. I imagine you must be feeling as though your world has ended. Your sister is right - you need to grieve now and there is time enough to sort out practicalities later. I hope you've got support to help you though the coming days.

You know what I think and always have and I predict the same as others. I sense with your H that he cares very much about what people think about him and when he unveils the new person in his life, he will insist till the cows come home that the relationship started after you and he had ended. I assume you didn't snoop and/or find anything?

Living the life you were while he was vacillating about what to do must have been so debilitating. You do at last have some control over your life now and I have read your posts throughout and you are blessed with a good sense of humour which will carry you through these dark days. It will seem inconceivable now, but you will meet someone again and it will feel amazing to have someone who is really into you and can't keep his hands off you. We all deserve that and life has a funny way of rewarding people in your situation.

Your DH on the other hand is far more likely to rue what he has lost and if there IS someone else, take comfort that relationships that start with deceit rarely stand the test of time. I hope that by that time, you will be ensconced with a man who adores you and you won't give H a backward glance.

Well done for taking control and keep well. The worst really is over.

Oh, I am so so sorry

I too believe there is someone else, men do not leave to live in a grotty b+b just to stare at the walls

Keep contact with him to an absolute minimum, only discuss what needs to be done wrt the children for now

He is going to cry, he is going to try and dump his guilt on you, he may even want to bounce back to you in the near future, if there is an ow he may vacillate between the two of you

Have your few days of complete collapse, then get tough and decide what you want, do not be thrown into the depths of despair by this man ever again

wendynut - have read this and really feel for you. What prompted him to leave now??

I still think there is someone else - sorry but talking to my h who did have an affair he says it is classic. He is just too frightened to be the 'baddie' in the breakup. Look out for someone in the very near future though. there may not have been an actual affair and she may have asked him to leave before it happened. I just dont believe anyone just leaves unless they think there is something better waiting for them.

There is nothing you can do now except to get on with your own life - see a solicitor as soon as you can as you will feel better that you can survive without him. Also sort out bills and things and make the house 'yours' now.

Also expect a bit of self-pity from him - he will tell he he feels awful blah blah blah and may even get you to believe he has had a breakdown (which he may have had). But you must let that be his problem now. However had it is for you he must now sort out his problems.

Do take the time to grieve too - and if you want to just wallow in bed for a while do that - there are only so many tears and if you get them all out sooner you will slowly see that you do not want to waste your life feeling like this.

Good luck anyway and i am thinking of you.

He's gone and I feel totally numb. I gave him the ultimatum today and he said goodbye to our kids tonight.He cried while he was packing, but it was his responsibility to tell the kids what he was doing. He was determined to go. I've been with him for 19 years and it's my bloody 38th birthday on Friday. I told him that if he was going, he had to go tonight, he was due to be away Wednesday to Thursday anyway but if he stayed in a B&B tomorrow night, he wouldn't be able to say goodbye to the kids because there was no way that he could come home Thurs night/Fri morning and say goodbye to to all of us on my birthday. I told him that was never going to happen, ever.
Unfortunately for expenses reasons, he's decided to stay in a B&B near his office in Bracknell so that he can offset it, the trouble is, we live in Dorset so we've agreed in the heat of the moment, for him to see the kids on Saturday. The kids are upset, but trying to put a brave face on it. They're both in my bed and I've had my family round(it was late), they are all brilliant and are so supportive. It hasn't really sunk in yet, I know my relationship of 19 years is over and where do I begin again? I've got 2 kids and 2 cats and so much stuff to sort out. I'm trying hard not to think of him in a faceless B&B (I've seen the website) but I really don't care very much . I have absolutely no idea where to begin tomorrow or how to try to separate 19 years of being together. My sister (who knows what it's like) said to just allow myself to collapse over the next couple of days without trying to do anything. I know that I have to feel proper grief, and it won't happen yet. I've never felt such pain in all my adult life, as I have done over these past 4 months, I would like to feel some relief now but am sat here with glass of wine, not wanting to go to bed but knowing that I'll never know the feel of his skin in bed in the morning or the smell of the back of his neck or his arms around me. He is the love of my life but I know that I have to go, start to make a life with our children. This is horrible.

I absolutely agree with FBGIB

You need to take some control of this farce, and regain some self-respect

all this blowing hot/cold is damaging to you, and your kids must be picking up on the atmosphere

force the situation, make him choose

unless of course, you feel he will choose to bin you, in which case it would be better to know, wouldn't it??

because if you would rather not know, then you are well and truly in a very dark place

I think you need to ask him to leave for a bit.

This has been going on for a few months and you deserve more than a few crumbs of affection that he deigns to give you.

He will either realise he can't be without you or you will realise you can be without him.

You have to think what is best for you, then your children.

Hi DM,
How are you? Have you talked with DH yet?
I'm still in the blummin' convent and I think it's sending me slightly bonkers, keep having very vivid dreams about life 'outside of the convent' if you see what I mean!
Things have been alright this weekend so far, we actually kissed properly on Friday night and he initiated it, but then he was distant and unaffectionate yesterday and today, it's very confusing. I aid to him that he must have let his guard down on Friday night and it does seem that way, like he needs to keep it up all the time and hold himself back, I don't know what he's trying to prove.
My birthday's on Friday and I wouldn't mind that as a present too DM (or before), I know how you feel!
Tiredof, how's it going at the moment? Have read your thread and can't believe what you've been through. Have there been any more developments? You sound very strong and in control, you go girl!
xx

Wendy,( or should that be sister Wendy?? ) welcome back - I have been keeping a look out for you! Glad you had a good break. I have nothing new to report, good or bad. Sounds like your DH is making some progress, albeit small steps in the right direction. I am looking for a suitable opportunity to talk but still am reluctant in case its a step back. It's my birthday next month - know what I would like as a present, but not very hopeful, and it wouldn't even cost anything! Back to the old convent then.....

Hi DM and TOTR
Tiredof, I'm so sorry to hear about your H, what a nightmare for you. I haven't read your thread yet but I'll read it this afternoon when I've got some free time. I hope you're ok and not feeling too stressed out, I know what the limbo land is like! Has going to Relate made you any closer, do you feel like you can get over this?
Glad things are still going in the right direction for you DM. I think we all deserve medals just for the patience and self control we've been showing over these past months, never had any before!
Well I'm still in the nunnery but I'm working on it. The holiday was good apart from the beginning where I felt very tense and stressed and things came to a head (again!)on Tuesday. We had a long night talking/arguing and things improved after that. I think coming home has helped him realise what there is to lose, but he's still distant physically and still no passionate kissing but we do kiss. We talked more this weekend which was positive, and he's become more involved in our day to day lives and 'switched on', whereas he was sort of numb and miles away before. So, it seems to be little steps but hopefully going in the right direction. It's my birthday next week and I really hope that it's all still going well, I've got to organise DH's 40th for a month's time, haven't done anything because of everything that's happened. I'll keep you posted on any developments
xx

Tiredoftherain, have just read your main post elsewhere and can only say that you are doing the right thing. You have a lot of guts and deserve to be happy. x

Hi wendynut, Sorry I haven't been back sooner but the internet has been down for a few days. No change with me, but I don't feel too bad about it at the moment - still in the nunnery sadly, but I have the feeling that very very slowly things are still getting better, it's just the way he is at the moment.I suppose it's because I know him so well that I know that I have to deal with it this way, or we'll be back at square one. I'm glad to hear you are talking and that you have got things out in the air before you went away. Hope you have a really good time, in more ways than one! Look forward to hearing from you when you return and that it's good news.

Tiredoftherain, I am so sorry to hear about what's happened to you, what a truly horrible shock but at least you are working at it with Relate. I hope it works for you both.

hi wendynut, I last posted on here as sickoftherain a month ago. Unfortunately, 6 days after my post I had a call from the husband of one of H's work colleagues to tell me he thought they were having an affair. He'd found texts on her phone and kept them as proof. I've been on such a roller coaster since, after leaving him for a few days I'm back at home and we're going to Relate which has been great so far. I'm really not sure what I want to do but I just can't carry on in this horrible limbo land. All of this is on another thread so I won't hijack yours by going into the gory details but suffice to say the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" line has been trotted out! We are such a cliche..

I was utterly convinced H wouldn't cheat, he is so honest, just didn't seem the type, had piled on weight recently etc and he swears it wasn't physical, just emotional (which is no better imo) but so many of the signs were there, I just didn't want to read them. I really hope this isn't the case for you, but really do recommend counselling to get to the bottom of what is going on.

Hi Dazmum
How are you? How is it going, any improvements on the nunnery?
I'm still there, but things have changed since I last posted. Shortly after I last posted (might have been the night that he came back from yachting) I'd decided to end it. I had worked myself up all day to tell him that night and was very calm about it. Living in this turmoil and never being sure about anything was more than I could handle anymore. We sat down after dinner and I started to tell him how I felt and had barely got going when AT LONG LAST he started to talk.
We covered a lot of ground that night and the next, and things are quite a lot clearer than they were before. I'm still in the nunnery and finding it hard to wait, he (thinks) he still feels more or less the same but we are closer.
He still doesn't want to break up our family and wants us to stay together. I think I'm the one who has more doubts and feel stronger due to everything that's happened. I do want us to be together but on my terms, it's all changed for me. We talked last night and we both eventually want us to get closer physically in time, but I'm not sure how long I'm willing to wait, we'll see.
We're off on holiday tomorrow and we're both looking forward to being together away from home and relaxing.
I hope you're ok and bearing up, I was thinking about you yesterday and how you are doing.
xx

How is it going Wendy?

could you get back onto the course you were doing? Start doing something positive which will help your situation if things don't turn out as planned?

I think you need to start seeking out things you can do which will bring some change in your life and some positive improvements to your social life.

At the moment it seems like you are suffering, your course and change of career are suffering and all because your husband has decided he doesn't feel the same way anymore. Seeing as he seems to be doing little to improve or mend the situation but still kind of expects you to be there for himm it just all seemsa bit one-sided and ufair.

You are right susia, most of the time it does feel like he has all the power. I think that's because I still love him and don't want it to end (needlessly). How do I become less needy, what can I do to turn how I've appeared around?

I'm really sorry but if a man said those things to me I couldn't be with him and I think you are humiliating yourself by wondering 'when' you'll next have sex etc.

I also think that there is a chance you get back with him but only by being less needy. I think if you are able to show you care less than he thinks (not by pretending) then he may want you back. It sounds like he has all the power.

I know it must be horrible to leave the man that you love but I don't think it possible that you will win him back without him realising what he has lost/could lose.

He rang me tonight and after a very stilted chat from my end, I asked him if he'd thought about what I'd said to him this morning. He said that he'd thought about it a lot and I asked what his conclusions were, and he said that he was still thinking about everything.
Am I being impatient or being walked over?
I agree with you lighthouse about doing something for me and that is how I've been feeling over the last couple of days especially. I'm now wondering if he's going to come back tomorrow night and will either still be thinking about things, have made up his mind that it's unsaveable or will try harder which still leaves things up in the air for me. I ended the conversation leaving it in no uncertain terms that I didn't want to hang on the phone and talk to him anymore and that I'll see him whenever tomorrow. Have just tried to cheer myself up by buying a Cath Kidston bag on Ebay

I am a believer of you don't know what you have got till its gone. Do it and see what he does. If he cares for you he will fight if not he won't. Life is too short to be in a loveless sexless marriage. He is stringing you along, nice home, family but the opportunity to bugger about. Noooooo! you have a life too. Are you going to sit there at 80 years old thinking "if only" sod that. How many sexy amazing men are there out there. I know you hurt now, but he is wasting your life for you and you are letting him. Do something for you and stop waiting for breadcrumbs x

Hi everyone,
WWIFN - Ok, I won't ask for them outright, but I will do a bit of snooping around to try and put this to rest. I still don't believe that he's been unfaithful though.
DM - Hi again, I'm glad things are ok for you but I must say, I thought nearly 3 months in the nunnery was tough let alone 6! Hats off to you for sticking this out and not going insane, I'm trying very hard not to and am finding it nearly impossible. It's helpful to hear that you've experienced this resentful and angry phase too, glad it's not just me going nuts! The trouble is that I feel so divided. One side of me is wondering if there really is any end in sight and if I stick around, am I wasting my time because his feelings might never change (especially if he doesn't start opening up to work through this).
The other side doesn't want to chuck it in, not if there is a chance of being closer again, but I know this will take patience and I can wait as long as he tries one hell of a lot harder.
I think that my main problem is that he instigated all of this and I believe that he should work hard at trying his best to put it right (if possible). I don't believe in chucking a bomb into mine and my DC's lives and letting me do all the work whilst trying to cope with the fallout and I can't get my head around not trying everything in his power to resolve things.
I think removing the pressure of sex is a very good idea, but how long can I handle that for? Alternatively, it's not like there's anyone else to do it with! Aargh, help!

Wendy - Okay, but PLEASE don't ask him for these details. If you do this, anything remotely incriminating will be erased before you can get to it. Try to find the password somewhere else - ask to borrow his phone on some pretext (your battery is flat/have left your phone at home - anything!) and request the password really innocently. If it's changed when you next try it, that's suspicious, but check out his face if you ask to borrow the phone.

As for the laptop, just start looking at E mails and history when he's in bed.

I'm sorry, I know this sounds sneaky and underhand, but as so many people will tell you, you need to know and drastic times (which these are) require drastic measures.

Oh Wendy, I'm so sorry how this is going for you. I looked for you on here just the other day, and hoped because you hadn't posted that things might be improving. Have you thought about Relate? I haven't been to Relate myself, but I did have counselling when my first marriage broke up ( sound like a disaster area don't I?)and having someone neutral just helps to focus your mind, and helps you work out what you really want to do and how to achieve it. If you can't get your DH to go with you, then go for yourself, just to have someone to talk to that isn't going to judge you or tell you what to do.
Things are ok with me (not wanting to hijack your post with my stuff!), but getting on for six months in the 'nunnery' now. Sometimes it gets to me more than others and it's all that I can think about. I went through the really angry, frustrated and resentful part that you are going through, plus feeling less than affectionate towards him. I am not the right person to advise you, as I can't sort this part of my own life out, but you probably have to put sex on the back burner at least until you like each other more. Have you been away on holiday yet? Maybe an idea would be to say that there should be no expectation for sex from either side for a while, and once that pressure is off things might improve and happen naturally? That also avoids the horrible feeling of being rejected yet again . That's what's happened with us, and while I too climb the walls sometimes, we are a lot more touchy-feely than we were, without the attendant expectation. He certainly can't accuse me of putting him under pressure! But, there will come a time before long when I will have to bring up the subject again, I know. Sometimes I'm too bloody passive for my own good, but I hate confrontation and arguing, so I have to wait for the right opportunities. Keep talking to us and take care of yourself.

Hi WWIFN
Thankyou for your post again. The yachting trip he was on was with an all male crew (I've seen the list) and he goes away on business roughly once a week. This is always alone or with a man and we usually talk on the phone for quite a while at various times throughout the evening. I do agree with you though, I know what it looks like. I will check when he gets back and I'll ask him to show me his laptop and give me the password to his phone.
I can't see how he could possibly find the time for an affair as he's always either at home or in a car but I will check it out all the same.

Wendy. So sorry things are not better. Look, I won't suggest this again - but your last two posts have included stuff about him being away, either through business or pleasure. There is also the non-functioning sexual dynamic you've mentioned repeatedly. Add all that to the "I'm not in love with you anymore" and I'm afraid I reach only one conclusion; he's got someone else. Seriously, have you actually checked this out yet?

Well, things haven't improved at all and we ended up having a (drunken) row on Friday night, which was also DD's 13th birthday (they were asleep in bed thank god). I told him that I'd had enough and that it was over and I was just livid with him. I suppose the booze brought everything out that has been brewing inside and I'd had enough. We talked the next morning and I couldn't go through with what I'd said the night before, solely because of the kids. I still can't break everything up for them and he can't either, but we're going round in circles. I was quite withdrawn yesterday, was just sick of talking really, which he commented on a couple of times, and had a bad nights' sleep. Kept thinking about seeing a solicitor and trying to make this situation move on even though I just wish I could wake up from this nightmare and everything is fine.
DH got up early because of travelling today and staying overnight on business and I (foolishly) tried to start things off while he was still in bed. He said that he 'couldn't' and got out. I said to him (after he'd got ready) that I'm sick of doing all of the work in trying to keep us together, I'm the one who pushes him all the time to read that (bloody invaluable) book and wanting him to start talking. I said that it's completely up to him now to begin to talk and unravel everything that got us to this point otherwise I will be contacting a solicitor and we'll go our separate ways, but what an enormous shame that will be without getting to the bottom of everything first, to just walk and not know why. When we were arguing on Friday night, he actually started to bring things up from our past that he sees as being a factor in all of this, and I could clearly see patterns and how things can be improved, but I can't do it all alone and it's so bloody frustrating!
He took the book with him after complaining 'well, when do I have time to read it?' and I said that he has to make time and stop making excuses. God I just feel so sad all the time, this has gone on for 3 months now and I can't sleep properly, have lost 2 stone, my Nutritional Therapy course has ground to a halt and I can't make any plans.
Sorry for a long vent but I've been keeping things to myself, have stopped talking to my family about it and none of my friends know.
Any advice anyone? Thanks

Hi Sickof and Dazmum
It's been a little while since I posted - waiting to see how it goes I suppose. Things have been on an even keel for the last couple of weeks. We've been a bit closer as in he'll kiss me (not passionately) when I want to, but he's not instigating things. We've talked about it and he's still finding it hard to get close to me because of everything that's happened before and I'm finding it very difficult to be patient. I know it's still early days yet and I can't expect things to be alright quickly, but I'm climbing the walls because I miss sex so much. It's been quite a few weeks now since we last did it and I've got no idea when we will do it again. We've discussed the fact that I'm a red-blooded woman who has 'needs' and that he needs time because he doesn't feel ready yet, and we both want to stay together and have a 'full' marriage again in time, but it's bloody hard being stuck in a no-mans land, waiting. I also miss proper intimacy and feel like I'm holding back on showing affection myself. I don't feel like I fancy him as much as I did before everything blew up, but I think that's because the rose-tinted glasses are gone for good and everything is so different now. I do still want him though, and believe that we need to work on the whole intimacy thing a lot more in order to rebuild trust and to get closer. How did you cope without sex for 5 months DM? And how's it going for you Sickof? DH is off yachting in Portsmouth tonight on some trip he won through work so I'm home alone with glass of wine and DD's in bed!
x

Hi wendynut, I'm also in a spookily similar situation. It sucks and I understand how you feel, it really does gnaw away at you. We have very small dc's and it scares me to bits to think of having to raise them alone, this really wasn't what I'd planned!

My situation has been going on for months now (since around dc2's 1st birthday, great timing!) and I know I need to find some closure as it's very difficult not to be able to plan for the future. I also don't think there's anyone else, and the workaholic tendencies and mid life crisis comments ring true for me also.

I hope you get some resolution quickly, don't let it drag on as long as I have!

Hi Dazmum
It's great to talk to someone with the same outlook and having the same experience. I feel that we have both been taking each other for granted too and have stopped being interested in what the other one feels. We've built up such high walls around ourselves that we've been living separate lives without even realising it.
That's such a lovely thing for your DH to say, I bet you're really pleased! My DH has had a lot of work stress too over the last year or so and his work load has increased enormously. I have felt resentful about the amount of time he spends working, and I don't mean physically working, but it's the thinking about work nearly all of the time and never switching off. I'd say that work was about 85% of his life.
A friend rang last night about us all going out to dinner and DH was keen to go (so was I). That's in 3 weeks time and it's nice to actually make some plans for a change, instead of dreading that evening or the next day and trying not to think of the future.
I don't know if everything is going to be alright in the end, it could still all go horribly wrong, but I've got to keep my faith in us and keep things together.
Stay strong too DM!

Wendynut, you are saying exactly what I have been thinking about my own situation, it's uncanny, think we must be related! It's so nice to have someone to 'talk to' on the same wavelength, although I wouldn't wish this on anyone. We have been married for 13 years and it is worth fighting for, working on and hopefully saving, and thankfully he agrees. I think it was all such a shock because I genuinely thought everything was fine, so probably we were both taking each other for granted. I too, am just being patient, and I have at last stopped wondering what I have done to cause this to happen, because it's not all my fault! I don't think he even knows what the problem actually is, but he has had a lot of work stress over the past couple of years, our house seems to take all of our spare money etc, and I think I just was there as a convenient someone to take it all out on.

Sounds like you are having some genuine breakthroughs too, not your imagination, if you were so repellant to him, he wouldn't want to kiss you at all (been there too, in a past life, with me not wanting to do the kissing!), let alone go on holiday with you.

My biggest breakthrough came just this week, when we were sorting out the kitchen, and I jokingly said that he might like to trade me in for a tidier model like Anthea Refern? ), and he said very seriously, that he wouldn't trade me in for the world! Don't think he realised how happy it made me, I probably should have said shouldn't I?

Stay positive and tough! We need to metaphorically bang their heads together!

Hi Dazmum and HW
It's so comforting to know that I'm not alone with this! Things changed again (slightly) last night after dinner. I said that I missed him and missed kisses and cuddles with him and we hugged for a while and kissed a bit. I asked him if he missed it too and he said that he did and he's confused about his feelings. HE'S confused?! I wish he'd become un-bloody confused TBH. But I was secretly pleased that we might be having tiny breakthroughs (unless it's just my imagination!) He kissed me properly twice this morning which cheered me up. When I read this back to myself, it sounds like I'm a complete drip, just waiting for her man to make all the decisions, but I'm not. I just trying very hard to be patient and see what happens because I still believe that there is far too much to throw away. I would like to stick around to see if he manages to get his head together and finally stop being a complete pillock.
I don't feel like I'm walking on eggshells, I'm just being myself and keeping my self esteem intact. I don't think he wants me to kick him out at all and he knows that whether he walks, or I kick him out, that it's all his fault and that he's the one who sits down with the kids and explains to them what he's done.
Thanks to both of you and hope it keeps on getting better for you Dazmum.
(Another long one!)

wendynut - only just read this.
You sound as if you are walking on eggshells - it really is the most awful place to be.
As hard as it you must live your life the way you want to. You cannot make him stay and love you and you need to make yourself happy and not think it is him and his wellbeing that makes you happy.

Whilst reading i too wondered if there was someone else - but whether there is or not he is not 'giving' to the relationship is he?
Do you think he would like you to 'kick him out'? So he can really be the victim? If he really believes those things enough to comit them to paper i think you need to ask yourself whether you deserve more than he is willing go give you.

Anyway i wish you luck and hope it works out for you.

Hi Wendy, phew, that list of his is really tough isn't it? I was lurking before because things are a bit similar for me too. My DH told me two years ago that he didn't 'feel the same about me', which was devastating. We have had several ups and downs since, because I have felt so depressed about it all, but things seem to be getting better for us at the moment, so there can be light at the end of the tunnel. No sex for 5 months though, but lots of kisses and cuddles - so what is that about? Why are these men so inconsistent? Where you have the 'advantage', such as it is, is that you are talking. That book is amazing isn't it, but my DH wouldn't even look at it. Good for you for having a good rant after seeing his list, which incidentally sounds like it's full of all the things my DH originally said about me - better than crying!! Sounds like he's doing a lot of thinking, but do keep the talking going between you. Hark at me, wish I practised what I preach! Think mine is partly down to a male mid life crisis/ male menopause too, from what he has said, which I have no idea how to deal with - and why should I really?
Just wanted to let you know that you aren't alone and that lots of other women on here know how you feel.And no, we certainly don't deserve it do we? Sorry, long too!

Hi Dazmum
I haven't posted because I've been waiting to see what will happen between us I think, it's all really confusing. I gave DH my list early last week because I felt like I'd had enough of sitting around writing things and he gave me a written response along with his list last Saturday afternoon. I know that we should have swapped them at the same time but it's too late now. His was devastating. I had written about 13 points in each pro's and cons column and he'd written about 4 tiny 'pro's' about me that were vague things like 'I think you're a good mum' etc. In the cons part, he wrote that he doesn't love me, that he's not in love with me, that he doesn't fancy me and also doesn't want to kiss, cuddle or have sex with me anymore. He had said these things back when he first dropped the bombshell, but seeing them written down was absolutely awful. He'd been avoiding eye contact with me before this and the tension has been unbearable so I really ripped into him after reading it. I told him to look me in the effing eye because I bl**dy deserve it.
After our blow-out, talking has been a lot easier and Sunday was much nicer. He doesn't want to leave the house, but he knows that I've almost thrown him out. We've talked more and it seems that he's been holding so much in for so long, that he's made himself completely numb, to the good things in life too, and more or less shut down. The book that I mentioned in previous posts is unbelievable, every chapter is completely about us and we're both still reading it. He wants us to go on holiday as a family and I agreed so I paid for that yesterday. I've been holding back on that because I've been very unsure about going. My head is so messed up, he gave me a nice lingering kiss when he came home from work yesterday and I said 'that was a nice kiss' and he smiled, but then he's distant again. What is going on?? Sorry this is so long by BTW! (blush)

Wendy, I was watching your thread and noticed that you haven't been back. I hope things went positively for you both, and hope you are ok. x

Thankyou whenwillifeelnormal for your advice. I've decided not to book anything, you're right, it's too soon. We're supposed to be going on holiday next month and I need to pay the balance of that in the next few days, so I need to be sure that we're actually going to go. We received the book recommended by anothermum92 ('I love you but I'm not in love with you') yesterday and we started to read it together last night. Everything that we've read so far has described us really accurately and I hope he really opens himself up to trying to benefit from the advice, it's so hard to tell if he's as dedicated to saving us as I am. We're both writing lists about good and bad points and I've got a feeling that his is going to be awful to read. It must be if he says that he feels like this now I suppose.
I feel like I've pulled myself together more (well I haven't cried for 2 days which is a start!) and have made a big effort to stop coming across as a victim. I have no idea how this is all going to go but I have to try and stay positive, even though I am clueless most of the time as to what he's really thinking or feeling which is so annoying (this is one of the things on MY list). I really resent him for putting us all through this.
Thanks all x

Wendy. I'm glad you talked. I would reverse this though and ask you to both write down what you LIKE about one another, not just what you hate. This is a really good exercise and helps you to focus on your DH's good qualities - and him on yours.

I accept what you say about your Mum not interfering, but I don't think family can ever be neutral in these situations. You've said your sister has very strong views about it all and even if she's keeping a lid on it, it must permeate yours (and his) consciousness.

He sounds like a basically decent man who is wrestling with a terrible dilemma. You've had the most awful lot on your plate in recent years and it could be that it's all proving too much for him at the moment. 40 is a bit of a milestone birthday and lots of people take stock at this time and review their lives.

It is entirely possible to fall in love again, but this requires you to change your view of your partner. At the moment, he sees you in victim mode, which isn't conducive to feeling in love.

I do think a really good counsellor would be better for both of you, than family.

As for a break away, I would suggest that it would be much better for you to do this as a couple, without the children - and certainly no-one from the extended family should be there. In my view, this might be too soon for you both. I'd ask your family to have the children for this whole weekend coming up and spend the time at home with your DH, working through your lists and trying to connect again. You could treat yourselves to a nice meal out or a takeaway in, with alcohol to oil the wheels!

Later on, have those breaks away for just the two of you. They really do help.

Can I just say thankyou to everyone on here who's responded, it's good to feel that I'm not alone. Thanks anothermum92, I've just ordered the book you've recommended, I'm willing to try anything to make this better.
Spent most of the day at my mum's yesterday in pieces, then started to try and think more clearly. I arranged for my sister to have my girls after school and I told him to come to my mums from work. He did leave work earlier and we went to my mums, I haven't talked to him with anyone else present before and I thought it might help. My mum doesn't interfere in things but she has felt like he's being very stupid. We talked for a long time and he did actually talk a lot more than he ever has really done before. For him, the problem is still the same in that he doesn't love me, but he agrees that there is affection there. We both don't want to split our family up and we agreed living together is better than breaking up.
We're going to write down everything that has made us angry with each other and to try to put into words how we've felt about everything. I think that would be better for him because he's good at putting things into words on paper but no good at saying them. I think it'll be good for me too. I'm sure that he thinks that I won't be able to cope with what he writes down about me but I don't honestly think I could be any more hurt than I've been already. Am I being a doormat? My priority is protecting my girls and I'll do anything to stop them being hurt.
My sister is angry (but keeping it to herself), she doesn't want him to do this again in a few weeks and thinks that the girls would be more protected by her and mum and me rather than being potentially exposed to heartbreak from him. I feel like I'm doing all I can and my mum's just suggested us all getting away this weekend to break this tension and to actually have some fun for a change, instead of sitting around brooding over it all.

sorry to hear this, how awful for you. It
does sound like some sort of midlife crisis
There is a book called 'I love you but I'm not in love with you' on amazon, which might be of use

I am in the middle of a very similar situation
DH told me he didn't love me in February(together 16 years)

I am 36, he turned 40, 6 weeks ago.I am a SAHM

He was also so I thought in a mid life crisis -noone else involved.

Tbh 6 months on we are no further on he lives about 5 mins away in a rented room and I am on benefits.

It sucks as I still love him so much.

But I have had some individual counselling(through GP) and know that I can survive, have many strengths and am a good mother - It is his loss.

I would love him to come back, but joint parenting is actually more important to me.

I do hope things can turn around for you, but be strong, you will survive and your DC need a mother around to support them through this as well

So sorry because my husband told me the same over a year ago.

I do think a sort of mid life crisis was involved.

I would wonder if he has a emotional attachment elsewhere if he isnt actually having an affair (sorry)

The sad thing is that you cant change someones feelings. Please do look after your kids and yourself as best you can. Its good he wants to talk and hope you can work something out. I really hear you on the financial worries too. Its a very tough time so take all the support you can!

I have wondered if it's some sort of mid-life crisis because he's 40 in September. We've also endured a lot together in recent years. We moved to Dorset from Cambridgeshire 5 1/2 yrs ago to have a new life and rented a house for a while before we bought again. So we've moved twice, he has changed jobs 3 times (once was because of redundancy, he's back there now), we've had a few financial ups and downs, our young cat was killed which was awful and our eldest daughter had an emergency op to have her spleen removed last year when a tyre swing hit her in the side and she nearly died.
We've had a difficult time settling in down here as well and I think it's all been too much. My family live down here now which I am very grateful for, especially now. I have no idea what to do or how to cope with this. I keep trying to get a hold of myself but I can't stop crying.

Hi

My heart goes out to you. I am madly in love with my husband and I think I would react like you have.

I think your husband really does care about you because he is trying to make it work. He has told you so, he is coming home from work early to chat isn't he?

I hate to say it because I don't want to upset you further but would it be worth it to ask him why he feels this way. It sounds strange but you need to get to the bottom of his feelings before you can move forward.

I hope you work it out. I really do.

Take care

xx

I know that I could look on his mobile (his work laptop is always open and I can see all his emails) but I really don't think that he is. I appreciate where you are coming from and yes, if it was happening to someone else that I knew, I would be thinking exactly the same thing. Things hadn't felt right for a while leading up to it all going wrong 6 weeks ago. We'd had a couple of problems in bed that had never happened before and I think I knew subconsciously that something was up. I asked him one Sunday morning what was wrong and that's when he said it. He's apologised a lot for hurting me but I don't think he could ever know what this feels like. I feel absolutely hollow and that my whole future is gone. I've been studying for a new career but graduating is a very long way off. If he does leave, I won't be able to afford to carry on with it and we can't afford to pay rent for somewhere for him to live. This is such a mess.

Could he be depressed?

It's entirely possible there isn't anyone else, but he's generally dissatisfied with his life, and tying that (unfairly) to your relationship.

How is communication between you?

Is Relate or similar an option?

You will cope if he goes, plenty of people manage just fine as single parents. And you probably need to come to terms with that possibility, to allow good communication while you sort things out ...

Ok. I understand your belief in him and that might well be the case, but (and I know you're in shock at the moment) can I as gently as possible suggest that you back this belief up with some hard evidence? In other words, do some detective work? Phones are always the best place to start, as are E mail accounts.

What led up to all this 6 weeks ago Wendy? How had he been before this and think back to the first time you sensed anything might be amiss? See if there is a pattern of behaviour or a catalyst that you can pin this on to.

I'm so sorry this is happening to you, it's horrible. It's hard at the moment though to see the wood for the trees. If you possibly can, take a step back and ask yourself this. If another person in your life dropped a bombshell out of the blue like this, wouldn't you be looking for other ways to test out the veracity of what they were saying?

Hi
I know that is usually the case but I'm positive there isn't anyone else. He spoke to my sister yesterday and she asked him and she believed him. He would have told me if there was and I know that sounds naive, but I know he's telling the truth. He doesn't want to split our family up either but he can't see a way forward because he doesn't love me.
We have always had such a good relationship. I want us to stay together and find another way to co-exist. I love him so much. He's never been the romantic type, I've always known that, but we should be bringing up our kids together and giving them stability, not breaking up everything and ruining lives.

Wendy. So very sorry for this heartbreak. It must be awful to you. In my experience, though, men very rarely say this unless there is someone else. Why are you so sure there isn't?

Hi
I've never done this before so it feels a little weird, but I'd love some advice, I feel very desperate. My husband told me that he didn't love me any more about 6 weeks ago. We've been together for 19 years and married for 15, we have 2 beautiful daughters aged 8 and almost 13 and a lovely home. We agreed to try and make it work and I thought things were going pretty well. But the thought of him not loving me had been gnawing away at me and it came out on Saturday night. I walked out and stayed at my sisters close by. I didn't sleep and left at 6 am to see my mum. I came back home early yesterday morning and we've been trying to talk it out.
I just can't believe he doesn't love me, i feel like he's ripped out my soul. He's the love of my life and I can't live without him. We've always had a good relationship and are best friends. I am adamant that I don't want us to split up. I don't want to destroy the kids, they know something is wrong, and I don't want to lose everything we've built up together over the years. I haven't worked since I had the kids and have always looked after them and supported my husband in his career. I know that no-one else is involved, he isn't having an affair. The prospect of waking up every morning without him and dealing with the kids all by myself is terrifying. I barely managed to drive them to school a minute ago and I feel like I'm falling to bits. He's trying to reschedule things so that he can get home from work earlier but I need him here. I'm 37 and I don't want to start again. He's my soulmate and if it wasn't for the kids I think I'd rather be dead than have to live without him. I'm going to my mums soon, can't sit here alone.