i know not of any book, i gained my knowledge whilst researching my ds and that book would not be suitable for you dh (its called kids in the syndrom mix). Maybe Mary or Amber could advise on that. I would probably advise though your dh is driving you mad, he wont be able to handle basic emotion whilst you are overloaded with emotion and thus focusing on your issues in the therapy session rather then his will help to balance you, allowing him to become more able to access you. I personally cant handle people who are overloaded with emotion until they have dealt with the emotion. its nothing personal just that emotion has the effects i have described and i am fearful of saying the wrong thing as well as uncomfortable. Once the emotion has been dealt with i can discuss the cause. Its not problems that cause the rubbishness its the emotions they generate, and whilst i would love to be supportive i cant.

Sorry i am no help, you need an emotional listener and i am not able to do that. sorry.

Is there a book that would help my DH understand what the condition is? So far I have only come accross books aimed at partners. Is there one aimed at adults discovering they have AS.
We are having a really bad time of it today; lots of rows. I just feel sick and gutted as I need emotional support but can't get it from him, have no close friends nearby, my parents are no use at that, and the therapist the NHS gave me is turning out to be a bit crap.
In fact I had ishoos before DH came along due to violent incidents, which is why I wanted therapy to resolve them, but I just end up spending the whole sessions talking about DH as he's driving me mad!!
I really can't get my head round this condition. It deosn't help that he comes accross as so rude and heartless. I know he isn't , but it's hard not to take offence. I just want someone I can be myself with.

I think you may have an emotional bond but not necessarily in they way you would expect or look for. Firstly your husband has just started on a long journey of realisation. And he is making baby step progress. He will need time and he will understand better but it wont be today and it wont be tomorrow. Understanding helps the ability to develop strategies and the situation to improve. I have an emotional attachment to my ex which is develped over a long period and knowing that it was something i would really really have to work at when i went into the relationship. It is a problem as that the emotional attachment i cant just turn off which makes it difficult now we are no longer togther. I couldnt express it in the relationship though. It is tough.

Hi all,
am feeling pretty pessimistic this morning. Feel like I've been hit by a truck from the realisation that I won't have a close emotional bond ever with my DH. I'm feeling a bit sick at the thought of a life that's gonna feel pretty lonely to me. I know I shouldn't think of the future and just concentrate on getting through today, but I can't help it; anyway that advice sounds like what you'd say to a long term prisoner. Feel like I've been stranded on a desert island.

Sorry have name changed again. am trying to find a name that sits right and struggling at mo. DEM/sleep.

Plus spelling crap. its a feeling of suffication and inclosure if my spelling makes that sentance make no sense.

Its not the same. I dislike physical contact, dont discuss emotions. I can discuss the factsof the situation but cant talk about how it makes me feel. It is like your husband, in that in order to be able to interact with people i need down time. It has been made worse by sleep deprivation but i have always been like that have begun to tollerate it more despte the sleep issue (ds is 4 1/2) I think it is an overload thing and as i find it hard to cope with emotions, and other people and their needs/emotions/thought processes. If if was a simple as inpatience it would be nice but it is an overwhelming feel of colistriphobia that creeps when involved with someone.

"Sleep" I wrote a reply to this a couple of days ago and lost it, don't know where everyone else has got to...

I thought it was interesting about you not wanting anyone in your emotional space. When I'm stressed out with the DCs I feel like I've reached emotional saturation and have no sympathy or patience with them - is that the same sort of thing? It was worse when they were little and I was suffering with sleep deprivation - is there a clue in your nickname? How old is your DS?

DH who has AS tendencies doesn't seem to have much emotional space, he can't bare me talking about "feeelings". He needs his own space for several hours a day in order to be civil to us for the short time we interact as a family.

I find that when I am struggling my sense of humour evapours and I can slip into what ex calls psycho bitch mood. When I am on form and can cope with life I can have a very dry sharpe sense of humour and enjoy the lighter side of life.

Am currently emerging from a long serious phase now I have found a profession that I am really enjoying and suits my need for structure and routine. I am getting there in sense of humour wise too.

You havent offended me, just expressed a view of how it is for you. And you are right serious can be hard. I am too serious and always have been. I have had to learn to "lighten" up thus I find it easy to slip into the more serious side of life and take most things seriously. For me i find posts like yours helpful as it helps me too look unemotionally at why i have issues with relationships. Now all i have to figure out is why i cant tollerate anyone in my emotional space. i care about people and want them in my life but dont want them in my emotional space. Has anyone come across this in their DPs/Dhs or experienced this themselves and help me to gain some sort of insight into why this is or how to learn to accept this. it does affect my relationship with ds and was part alot of the reason me and ex split up.

thank you all for being so honest about things it truely is helpful.

Hi Chodders, I'll join you for some laughter, fun and lightness! Where do I sign up?!
My DH can be a good laugh but his mood does change and then he's heavy as hell for about a week. Ho hum.

Chodders, sad to hear of your situation.

Some of us are no fun, others of us are absolutely hilarious. It's another thing that is not a standard characteristic of an ASC - every one of us has our own personality.
I wonder - I'm not any sort of medical person, but could his seriousness and lack of fun be an underlying depression? If he's had a whole lifetime of not understanding the world, it could be that he's sunk into just not trying because he can't handle the fear and unexpectedness any more. Just a thought. Is there an adult ASC support group locally he'd be prepared to attend - often the local charities do offer adult social skills training for those that want it?
Ultimately though if a marriage just isn't giving you what you need, you have every right to want and need something different.

Hi reading your comments strikes the same old cord ! My hubby was diagnosed with ASD last year I could not carry on without knowing the truth i thought i was going BONKERS!!!!!Nothing has changed but now know i will never have the marriage i would want but try 2 look at it differently. I am so glad me & my daughter have a sense of humour when he starts flapping like a penguin or does something really unappropriate in public.To be honest i have avoided commenting on these forums cos i still have to live my life & dont want to get 2 depressed. Yes its lonely & sad to come home to an emotionally unresponsive person. Of course he cares but he doesnt know how at times its best to get busy in your own life & not look to them but get support from your friends.More than anything i need laughter,lightness & fun as Aspies can be so heavy ,serious & drain all sense of spontinaety.Sorry if anyone is offended i can only say/share things from my point of view & experience.

Wow, that's very enlightening Amber thank you for that.
My DH didn't realise he was different to others until just recently so he can never explain to me his differences. He doesn't yet know exactly what those differnces are. I hope his referral for diagnosis comes along quick.
Actually he still seems to just think he's different to ME, as he thinks I'm over emotional, overly sensitive, etc, so so far he hasn't taken on board that he's different to MOST people. He gets quite offended when I gently try to tell him that. It doesn't help as i AM in fact quite overly emotional as I suffer from PTSD, so he's latched onto that and thinks we're gettig councelling as we're so different from each other and therfore have problems communicating, which I guess is true of course.
He didn't CONFESS to not knowing about the emotions behind words; the councellor sort of exposed the fact that he doesn't know by her gentle line of questioning regards an argument we'd had. He looked genuinely confused as he didn't know he was lacking any understanding and I guess it's becoming clear that he's lacking loads. We've been nice to each other ever since, long may it last, but it usually lasts a week tops!

As we know, I'm married - have been for over 20 years - to a great guy with an ASC, and I have Asperger syndrome myself. We have a son. I have friends. All of it, every last bit, is learned behaviour from learned rules.

A snapshot of my world. Went to a gathering of people on Saturday at which I met someone I've known 20 years, someone I've known 2 years, three people I've met once before, and someone I've never met in my life. And every one of them felt exactly the same to me. They all register as 'friends'. Makes not a jot of difference if someone is new to me or not. Highly dangerous for me, because I trust new people just the same as I trust old friends - it feels identical and I can't identify them properly anyway as I'm also faceblind (rare amongst ASC but possible).

The concept of "depth of relationship" is meaningless. Don't know what it is. But it doesn't stop me from enjoying being with people, loving conversation with them, and wanting to be in their company.

Nor does it stop me wanting to do my best for them. I just get vey worn out trying to guess why I have to do different things for each different person, and remembering the million rules that go with each person's likes, dislikes and needs. It's like doing a thousand piece jigsaw where you have no picture to tell you what it looks like. So, so confusing.

But we can and do learn. Because so many adults never had the absolute basics explained to us (others just know this stuff by instinct), we can have huge huge gaps in our understanding. People might mistake that for rude, but it isn't usually meant to be.

Hi mrsasp

It's so exciting ?! that both you and DH are beginning to see, to understand AS and how he is affected.

I too felt shocked, shocked, shocked (still am!) the day my DH revealed to me that he didn't actually know what a relationship is. He had/s no concept of what it is and no 'feel' for it. He has no emotional vocabulary, and relationshps need this vocabulary to survive. My DH too can not understand words beyond their literal, informative meaning - and this is precisely the problem...the difficulty for AS.

As well as utter shock and incredulity (think that's the right word!), I do also remember feeling impressed that my DH could begin to be honest about his lack of knowledge rather than continue to try to hide the truth - this must give you some hope for your relationship too?

Another thing that consoles me is knowing that AS is a developmental condition - so my DH is now learning the emotional language that I learned instinctively from birth and I can see changes happening very slowly as the scales drop from his eyes.

great news Mrsasp... hope more light continues to shine for you.

Thank you FairyCake and MrsA: I'm grateful for your advice. Whether or not I have the courage/ strength to walk away is another matter - but thanks to you, and others here, at least I have a small idea of what the future might be like. The thought of being emotionally self sufficient forever is more than a little daunting but it's difficult to see past the excitement of early love - though of course that wears off, whoever the DP is. I'm wishing you all luck too.

Aha, dideinsteinsmum it's you! Welcome back. And rest assured so far you've not put your foot anywhere near your mouth on this thread.

Yes Mrsasp, had name changed to DEMislostandtired and changed again due to name hinting reasons. I am normally DidEinsteinsMum, I am here periodically and was posting on the thread at the beginning (although that might under a different name) I name change reguarly and wil probably be found under various names throughout the thread. I pop in to check up or hide out occassional but suffer from foot in mouth disorder so often dont stick about for long. Had lost this thread and though about your situation so thought i'd come find out how you were doing.
Am glad for you as you seemed so hopeless when you started the thread. It gives me hope for the future.sometimes

Yes Chieffairy it was a shock. No wonder all conversations with him have gone tits up! The counceloor took ages trying to axplain to him, and it was so bizarre watching him NOT understand her time and time agin; it really brought home to me how impaired he really is. I think it's quite good that I have had this proof as now I know he's not just beong stubborn or m being mean; i also won't waste my breath anymore trying to explain at length. As I said before, and apparently this didn't offend the AS contibutors to this thread, you wouldn't waste your breath yelling at a budgie cos they didn't get your meaning! Now I know he really can't hear this aspect of our conversations it might make me get less het up about it. Who knows.
Of course he can learn hopefully, but it's quite scary how much he has to learn and how late in life he's left it! Can't teach an old dog and all that.. Also I'm a bit old to be having to learn a new way of communicating!
I think someone earlier in this thread did a link to a You Tube film about being AS, and in it the man said he hadn't even known that people had emotions until he was diagnosed AS in his twenties and had it explained to him. How spooky for him to suddenly realise there's this whole life going on around him that he hadn't known about. This is how my DH must feel. He must be in shock now.

Lostandtierd have you name changed? Not sure which poster you are.
I do feel a tiny bit more in control some days and desperate and distraught others.
At least, thank God , we're seeign a councellor who has knowledge of the condition; she's great. Before our councellor made me feel so forlorn as he didn't take the AS into account and gvae us advice that was truely never going to work for DH.
DH even agreed to going on a workshop for marriages that are one As and one NT! Does anyone know of such a workshop? At least he wants to make it work.
Ifnotnowwhen I'm sorry to say if you were a friend of mine I'd actually advise you to run from this bloke. I know you probably won't as you're probably in love, but please think about a lifetime of noone acknowledging your emotions, respecting them, comforting you, sympathising with you. You may be robust now, but through life shit things happen and it may be handy to have a man who can empathise and comfort you. You may not need that now, but everyone needs it at some point.
I don't think you'll be able to get him to talk about how he feels as he may not KNOW how he feels.
But TBH there are worse things than a man who can't empathise; from reading Mumsnet it seems men can make you unhappy in a whole HEAP of different ways, so it's your call. Pays yer money and you takes yer chance.

I am really glad that your dh is being to become aware of the issues now MrsAsp. It has been a while since i last posted here. I am especially glad as you seem (am i am probably reading this wrong so forgive if i am) that you are feeling more in control of the situation in terms of being able to see a way forward. Not sure i am making sense but i am not good at making sense with emotions. Hope you grasp what i mean.

We have found a way forward and i now have a lovely ds who is settled in school and i am beginning to get in control of this. Routine is so key to both of us so school is good for both of us. I am making notes of things that i recognise cos i am so hoping to be able to move forward relationship wise in my life to.

Hope things continue to move forwards for you.

MrsAsp - wow that is a revelation! It's hard to imagine someone not knowing there are emotions behind words. What did your counsellor make of it? And I wonder what your next session will be like? He's got a lot of catching up to do, no wonder he was so shocked. How are you both feeling now?

IfNotKnowWhen - welcome, my gut instinct is to tell you to cut and run but seriously have you tried some plain talking eg "I need to hear you say you love me otherwise I think you don't love me" or "Do you see us having a long term relationship/ getting married / having children together?"

IME (DH) they don't understand subtlety or hints so you just have to ask them what you need to hear. Good luck

I've been reading this thread with interest -and am in awe of so many of you dealing with difficulties. I hope my question isn't insensitive - but I would value your advice.

My new boyfriend has apserger's. There's a lot I like about him - and a lot which reflects the difficulties disucssed on this thread. However I'm finding it difficult to know what he feels about me, and I'm not sure how to deal with his apparent lack of emotional barometer. Do any of you have tips for how we can usefully have a serious conversation about where we are at? I'm emotionally robust - but emotional nonetheless. What I feel is important and, though I'd be prepared for a 'difficult' relationship, I do need to know that he loves and prioritises me, even if he shows this in an atypical way. At the moment I feel as though I am making allowances for him and his behaviour but I'm not sure whether this is justified. Part of me feels I should cut and run - love should be easy etc etc - but part of me would like to give us a chance.

Any tips from those of you who have been there before?
Thanks to you all.

Hey there; where is everyone?
What a revelation today. I don't know whether to celebrate or top myself. Found out in couples councelling session that DH NEVER EVER EVEN KNEW that people speak with emotion behind their words. He genuinely thought everyone just spoke in order to practically impart information. If I'm cross or upset and therefore talking in a certain way, he doesn't know what the hell is happening because I'm doing something OTHER than imparting practical information. And he ONLY understands imparting practical information. I don't even think he knows people feel emotion. I'm not even joking. This came accross SO clearly today in the session; there can be no doubt in my mind now, which I guess might help me as I now know the extent of our differences in communication.
I am reeling- struggling to understand the emotion behind people's words is one thing, but not even knowing that there ARE emotions behind people's words is another thing altogether.
He looked truely shocked and went a bit pale; and, when we talked about how some of our rows went, he said "I've been totally missing the point", and he looked like he was going to be sick.
Talk about scales being lifted; for BOTH of us. I don't know what happens from here, but just thought I'd share the events of today. Blimey, eh? What a funny path life takes me down. Funny as in strange! Oh well; it's never boring anyhow.

Hi, wow so confusing, isn't it? I don't even have time to learn how to use my mobile phone properly, let alone all about this complex condition and how to live productively with a DH with it; but I guess I have to make the time....
I'm not saying anger and agression are part of AS; I actually only heard of the condition this summer so i can't claim to know much at all about it, hence starting this thread.
My DH's AS makes him frustrated when we try to have conversations as my talking style is SO opposite to an AS style, and yes, his frustration comes out as anger. He is never physically agressive. He is verbally abusive in that he tells me I'm talking nonsense alot, but to him, actually, it does sound like nonsense! And as he didn't know he had this condition he assumed his way of thinking was right and was how everyone else thought; no wonder he thought I was a nutter. He is now slowly realising he probably is AS (he asked GP for referrel this week) and he flies off the handle abit more than ususal I imagine because this realisation is deeply upsetting for him.
A man with AS whio insists he's right and you're wrong will feel very abusove to live with and that's what my DH has been like, though after a row nowadays , since he's known he may have AS, he does realise he plays a part in the row, whereas previously he entirely blamed me.
If he didn't blame me and said Sorry now and then I wouldn't feel so resentful of him.

wdmp, a lot of it happened because for years it was only young boys in classrooms who were having a meltdown who were sent to the Ed Psych and ended up at the diagnostic services.
So they looked at their behaviour and thought "aha, that's what ASC looks like".

When the specialists then did a checklist of all the people in the classes, they started to realise that we were only spotting a tiny fraction of ASC people. Same when they did the tests of adults.

If you're well behaved, quiet, sensible, are frightened of breaking rules...no-one would ever ask that you get a diagnosis. The rest of us were just the geeks with no social skills, the ones who got bullied senseless thrice daily, the ones with no friends, the ones who'd sit and over-focus in the corner and seemingly ignore the teacher, the ones who wouldn't look you in the eye, the ones whose hobbies were just weird and seemed to take over our whole lives.

It's why most women were never spotted, and still aren't. We tend (generalising) to be well behaved and quiet rather than draw attention to ourselves. Our obsessive hobbies can see 'normal'.

The main experts use the standard diagnostic lists such as the AQ, SQ and EQ AAA series or the adult DISCO lists, none of which have aggression as part of them.

Difficult, I agree. There's no doubt that there are individuals with ASC who are Very Angry People. But many others are just lovely. Quirky, but lovely. I guess if we know that the anger doesn't have to be that way, it helps us to not put up with it, not let them use it as an excuse?

Hi Amberlight

I think there is a lot of confusion about behaviours related to AS and behaviours related to mental ill health conditions. Not only amongst us partners but amongst the professionals too.

I wonder why this has happened?

Maybe it's more 'acceptable' to be AS than mentally ill so, as in my case, my partner sought a diagnosis of AS but did not seek a diagnosis of eg.'social anxiety disorder'or 'depression'.

I don't know...

Neither do I know if it is helpful for partners for this distinction to be made...

Maybe it's only after a diagnosis the precise areas of difficulty for an individual can be identified and addressed by a professional, so until that point, a partner only has limited information to go on and for some reason, AS fits the bill.

I hope one day that someone somewhere can shed some light on this very confusing condition. Maybe now with the new Autism Bill more money will go into research and our stories can be told and appropriate support obtained. We need it for ourselves and for our children who must be even more confused than we are!

Am a little concerned that I may be coming across here like I have all the answers - sorry if I am. I really don't and am struggling with many similar things to other posters even though I might be a few more years down the line.

Mrsasp - I think you will learn in time how to 'argue productively' with your DH. You will find the best way to communicate with him and how to express yourself in a way that he can understand, rather than launching into rows. And he likewise with you. But it does take time, so be kind to yourself whilst you are sorting things out. What do you need? What helps you to feel well and healthy? I needed some time living apart from my DH so that I could figure things out and recover from the battle ground as well as regular exercise, yoga, singing etc etc. What do you need?

Even though my DH doesn't do the rage stuff, he did a lot of the silent, unresponsive or even crying and occasional self-harm behaviours which were equally successful in preventing any discussions happening. It made me feel as though I was dreadfully evil to even mention something that was bothering me... and I too often felt the need to vomit and was afraid to speak. My DH is beginning to understand that his responses are not healthy within an intimate relationship (or anywhere!) and is dealing with his anxiety and we can have more productive conversations as I am learning how to communicate too - but I am aware and accept (most of the time) that it can never be a 'normal' easy reciprocal conversation and will always require some level of conscious effort from both of us.

It is taking quite a long time for me to adjust to this so I look after myself in the mean time and try not to focus too much on the problems.

My thoughts on Marshack - there is a lot of helpful stuff on her website. Take from it what helps. But underlying her comments is, I think, the fact that her AS relationship failed so her experience is much more negative. The nature of her job also means that she will be dealing with all the negatives and problems - she won't be coming across many success stories or positive AS who are willing to try and work hard at their marriage. I haven't read her new book, but probably will at some point to see if she has really understood.

Just to reconfirm - anger and abusive behaviour are not any part of a diagnosis of ASC.

ASC individuals cannot see body language or facial expressions very well
We can't use eye contact to 'say things' to people or understand what the eye contact means. It just looks like a pair of eyes.
We have to guess the right thing to say because our brains are very straightforward and work on a series of rules
Our brains don't have a 'common sense/automatic" centre. Everything has to be learned manually.
Our eyesight is as accurate as that of a bird of prey - we can see stupid amounts of detail, but no 'big picture'
Our hearing is better than that of most animals
Our sense of smell, taste and touch is often hypersensitive.
Our brain was designed to have a data centre instead of a people-centre, so we spend a lifetime moving the brain wiring around to make room for the people stuff, because we almost always DO care and we DO want friends and relationships.

Most people with an ASC are nice, loyal, sensible people who are desperate to make friendships and relationships work, but don't understand the rules well enough to manage it very well or very often without a bit of help.

Some are so stressed out by life's experiences that they develop mental health conditions that affect their behaviour, but those are not 'the ASC' - those are the result of the mental health condition.

Some are just plain rude and nasty, same as there are plain rude and nasty people everywhere else in life. It's not a feature of ASC.

So, yes, there are a few people with an ASC who are rude and nasty to their partners, but it's not the ASC that's at fault.

There are plenty of us who are accidentally very undiplomatic, can panic, might need to hide from social things, can get very exhausted in crowds or noisy places and need to get away from the stress of it fast, etc...and those are features of the ASC.

Not everyone can cope with a relationship with one of us. Each of us has to make their own choices in life, and I respect the choice of partners who say "I've had enough".

Everyone has the right to want an abusive nasty hate-filled relationship to stop. No-one has the right to be actively and deliberately abusive and nasty to someone else.

Umm, that's the way our marriage works - by understanding all of this. It's why I've put it here.

Was talking to a lady yesterday, her friend is married to an Aspie man, and puts up with his weirdness, but loves other things. For example, the times he tells her "you're really beautiful, you are" and then just goes back to watching the TV. From talking to this lady, sounded like they had a strong marriage.

My DH is lovely, and we have a good marriage too, despite my being an Aspie. For us its about give and take. But because he is so understanding and forgiving of my quirks, I find it easy to relax with him, which results in fewer disagreements and more love and affection between the 2 of us. I feel "more normal" with him, if you can understand that.

mrspasp, I am a wife of an AS man and am happy.

Sorry devilmaycare I meant, not Devilamy! Who's Amy?

Hey everyone; so many points to answer, so little time! Am supposed to be shooting off home to do dinner but will just do a quick response.
Thank you again *Timefor me* (can't get the hang of your new nickname!) for replying and offering me comfort and the chance to chat to you; I will do that one day when DH is out of earshot!
Amber sorry if the link upsets you but TBH it sounds so very like my relationship. Of course all AS folks aren't going to be the same (WDMP's DH sounds so different to mine in that he doesn't rage with frustration), but if you know wives of AS men who are happy and enjoying their relationships, please, please send them to this thread. Of course I don't just want to hear from the wives who are struggling (though TBH it offers me alot of comfort to know I'm not alone), it would be handy to hear from those who are making a success of being married to an AS man and not ecxperiencing the difficulties the link mentions.
I've felt so forlorn these past few days; my hormones are all over the place which doesn't help. But DH is back to being civilised at the mo, so I'll go hame and make the most of it, and try, try, try not to enter into any discussions! God forbid...
Borderriver welcome and I totally rlelate to being so scared to speak you become ill.
Devilamy what a great analysis of the way AS partners argue. I wish I could rememeber that there is no point arguing with them, but I get all het up and launch into a row which of course gets me nowhere.

Devilmaycare - I think you've hit the nail on the head when you say that you are unable to have a 'normal argument'... and this is the crux of the issue for our relationships I think. Having AS means having a communication disorder - so normal arguments/conversations won't happen - that's the disability. That's what it is.

I still haven't quite come to terms with the full implications of this for myself and my DH but am getting there. I too have thought.. does this mean we can't ever speak to each other?
Most of our problems occur when we try and talk about something. Even having a simple, non threatening conversation about eg. 'the weather' can sometimes go completely hay wire. It can be very exhausting...

My DH is working with me to resolve this - he accepts he has a communication disorder and knows that he is unable to fully understand all the messages that exist at different levels when two people have a conversation so usually we can sort out the problem - though it does take a fair amount of time and re-wording! For big issues, we write. It's amazing the difference that using writing makes. In writing, my DH is more the person I married and is able to express himself much clearer and, well, lovingly - in talking he is someone else. It's a very strange world indeed... but I'm coming to terms with it gradually.

My DH does acknowledge that I feel differently to him and that there are many ways to achieve things and that 'his way' is not the only way - the problem is, as Devilmaycare has said, that this only happens when I am able to explain it in a way that he can understand - so eg. any emotional expression will confuse things at the time. My DH is ok with me expressing my emotions - providing I do it in a non-emotional way. I think couples have to find ways to do this that work for them - we tend to do it at bed time in the dark when there are no distractions, as well as in writing. Devilmaycare, I hope you find a way that works for you so you can feel less lonely.

Borderiever - welcome. Glad you found the thread. Sounds like a dreadful situation and you must be very distressed by your ex's behaviour. Try never to engage with any abusive stuff that your DH is doing - no responses at all. It's a common misperception that people with AS can't control themselves and have to be abusive and that we have to learn to live with it. But this is not true. My DH never behaves like this - no tantrums or shouting abuse, ever - I couldn't cope with it and think this kind of stuff is seriously damaging. Your husband needs consequences for his inappropriate behaviour for him to learn not to do it.

Hope you find some support from your friends or a counsellor. It needs to stop.

Certainly rings bells here.. and hearing i'm not alone is strangely comforting.. thanx for sharing.

Hello all,
I just found your thread and felt such relief and yet sadness. My marriage broke up in January.. i know my ex has ASD.. the posts here validated how awful the anger and verbal attacks can be. I know it was defensive in his world, but i had become so afraid of speaking i was utterly ill.

The worst part is, i'm losing everything i ever held dear, my home, pets, my town even.. and he's STILL attacking me.. by text, email and phone.. and yet i still love him..

Mrs A, one of the big problems with dealing with an AS other half is that you can't have a normal argument with them. Normally, one side does something, the other explodes, words are exchanged and either during the argument one side backs off or apologises. This doesn't happen with AS, as they have a need for reducing anything to explicit rules. Your emotions will count for nothing, and your DPs aplogy will be because he doesn't understand what it was all about, but knows something was wrong. The point at issue can't be resolved, as the DP doesn't really understand why it was a point at issue.

I've also found that theres a great desire by my DW to achieve a resolution in an argument; she can't acknowledge that I feel something, and because she wants to conduct life like going through the instructions of a computer program, we can't have a blow up to clear the air. Because I can't define the problems in the way that she can understand, I'm therefore wrong, as she can't acknowldge that her way is not the only way, and there isn't one set of rules that can apply in every suituation.

I've therefore got into the situation, for better or for worse, of avoiding contentious sitauations. If this means we avoid each other and don't speak, its preferable to getting stressed out and raising my blood pressure.

Amberlight, I've read the article too. Some things I agree with, others I disagree with. My kids are on the whole happy and thriving, but there are a number of rows where my DW can't see things from their standpoint, or can't see inconsistencies in her behaviour, or she tries to impose her own way on the kids no matter what they have said to her in the past. Its all swings and roundabouts, and my DW's style was better than the average mother's when they were toddlers, but unfortunately doesn't work so well when they're teenagers.

One thing I would agree with is that I'm very lonely in my supposed relationship, as no matter how hard my DW tries, she doesn't understand me or who I am.

Goodness me...that link is so relentlessly negative about us. I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with much that it says, from my experience of so very many adults with an ASC.

We're not all the same and I know so many good parents with an ASC who have brought up children who are happy and thriving.

I'm so sad that this link portrays us all as a disaster for children when so many of us aren't. I truly wish they wouldn't generalise in that way...it makes life hell for those of us who are trying to survive in a world that is already so negative about us so often.

There is also absolutely no research to show that ASC men are more likely to cause a long and painful divorce than anyone else. I fear the good lady is summarising from the cases she sees (which are invariably going to be the big problem ones) and then generalising it as if it's fact.

But if someone is married or in a relationship with a partner whose behaviour leaves them living in fear, that's absolutely not acceptable. No-one has to put up with that for a relationship, even if the person has a diagnosis of ASC. Basic physical safety and the right to basic respect without being shouted at abusively is something everyone needs.

I've been wondering whether to post this link for a while but I'm going to post it now because there are a few points that I personally take comfort from, that reassure me that what I am dealing with is 'normal' for my relationship, I especially find the bit that says "The Aspie knows what they think and feel but are often unaware of what their loved ones think or feel" That helps me to remember not to take things personally.

www.kmarshack.com/therapy/asperger/faq.html

MrsAsp please feel free to CAT me, I will help you any way I can. I know how isolating it can be to have no one to talk to, no one who understands and worse of all those you do talk to advise you to leave him . I had one 'friend' who I confided in but she went down the abuse route and all she pushed me to do was leave. Yes, there is anger and there are rages and it can be perceived as abuse but I don't see it that way. I see a man who feels out of his depth and is lashing out (verbally)to deflect from that, to protect himself and also from frustration of not understanding, almost in the same way we do??

Don't be too hard on yourself sweetheart, you are only human and you do have needs and wants that aren't being met by your DH but if you can switch your focus to the areas where DH does meet your expectations and try to focus less on the other stuff then you will so just fine. I think it's good that you plan to see friends more, you should try to find other ways to have a fulfilling life, that way you will be happier and in turn your DH will be happier, the pressure will be off the both of you.

Timefor
Thanks for coming back so quickly- I almost CAT'd you earlier as I really think it's only possible to talk about this to those who've been through it. I mentioned AS to my good friend this morning again amidst floods of tears and she just looked at me like I'd said "I really think DH might be a potted plant!!" I quickly back pedalled and went back to the usual whinging about men type of converstaion, but it's NOT like that, it's SUCH a different situation. He's not an "All men are bastards, blah, blah, blah"

And yes you're right when i feel emotional and vulnerable I do think "What about MEEEEEE!!!" and that's when I start to demand stuff of him he can't give. And that's when I feel such anger towards him because he won't give it (even though of course he can't). And of course he then kicks off. What a lovely little circle of events...NOT!!!!
I'm going to really try hard to stop expecting him to be like I want him to be..I'm going to try really hard to remember that he has AS. I'm going to see my friends more!

Hi MrsAsp, it's good to hear from you, I have been thinking about you. I hope you can take comfort from the fact that I have been exactly where you are, feeling more or less the same things that you are feeling right now and it does get better, you will learn. Actually I think acceptance has a lot to do with it, not fighting it and not feeling the need to be right or get a point across. I have learned when to shut up I have learned that the best way to communicate with my DP (other than email) is to keep it short and to the point, and to keep emotion out of it. And a major thing I have learned is not to take it personally if ever he does kick off, I just take myself off and do my own thing, leaving him to cool down and think. It's usually not too long before he comes knocking with a cuppa

I can relate to what you say about it being worse when you are in a vulnerable state too. Sometimes I find myself not being quite so understanding and pushing for what I want rather than what I know he can give and that's usually when I'm feeling a bit emotional myself. It always backfires though because we end up further apart, just like you and your DH last night.

Thinking of you x

Thank you everyone for your good wishes; what a night. Yes, TimeformE it is when he feels I'm verbally attacking him. When I get the idea that he feels under attack I make the mistake of trying to convince him that he's NOT under attack and try to explain myself, and he just gets more and more frustrated and furious. There is NO explaining; he just doesn't hear it- he decides he's under attack then starts lashing out. I dig myself a deeper hole by not shutting up. When will I learn?
This has all got ALOT LOT worse since the subject of him possibly being AS has cropped up. I imagine that he's feeling really unsettled by the possibility that he has it, so he is like a pressure cooker. And yes "Chief" it definately is worse when I'm in a vulnernable or emotional state. At these times of course I'm less able to monitor what i say and stick to the AS mode of talking; I ramble and sob and make no sense (to him) and it always ends up with him cross. Pretty hard to feel low then have someone be angry at you for being low. I do have friends I turn to though. And you guys!
And he does usually calm down the next day and try to make it up to me a bit. What a fucking rollarcoaster, excuse my language.
I think what will happen in time is I'll NEVER trouble him with my problems; I'll talk to friends; I'll be on the look out whenever we converse so I only use language he understands; I'll never yell at him; I won't expect of him what he can't give; but it's going to take me some hard work- I'm crap at learning languages! And of course hopefully he'll get some help if he's diagnosed; get some councelling of his own (or horse tranquilisers!)

Hi MrsAsp

Really sorry to hear things are so bad for you atm, are you back home yet? I've felt just like you, but it's worse if your having a traumatic time and need to feel "looked after". It's so hard getting this across to these DH's isn't it? Their lack of empathy can be infuriating.

My DH was worse when I was depressed / stressed out / not coping - I don't know if it was fear but he would get really angry and verbally attack me, just when I needed his support most. Do you think your traumatic week has stressed out your DH, making him scared and angry because you're not right?

Hope you're getting some much needed support from elsewhere,
take care
CFCM

Hi Mrsasp...

Hope you are ok... sounds like a good idea to stay elsewhere. You have a right to feel safe and so has you DS.

Your DH seems to be not coping very well at all... I don't think you are dealing with AS on it's own, which is challenging in itself. Your situation seems much more complex to me. Hope your counsellor can give you some advice... if not, contact women's aid perhaps?

I found it helpful to read books about emotionally and/or verbally abusive relationships as well as the AS books - recognising the effect of some of my DH behaviour on me regardless of the why of it was helpful for me.

Hope things improve soon... really feel for you right now.

MrsAsp (It's TimeForMe wearing a new name) First of all I am so sorry you are going through such a hard time with your DH. I hope you manage to talk with him today and sort things out.

I just wanted you to know that my DP can fly into a rage if he feels attacked, even though I'm not attacking him. It does seem that he gets defensive when he can't find the words to reply to what I am saying, when he can't cope with the level of conversation, he gets angry and defensive, projecting how he is feeling onto me, deflecting from the conversation he is finding difficult. Thankfully this hasn't happened for quite a while now, mainly because I understand more how his mind works. I as just wondering if this is what you have experienced with your DH.

Terrible night. One small conversation in the car led to DH going mad. I've brought my DS elsewhere tonight as am too scared to go home. Apparently I was trying to wind him up on purpose. It seems I need to just keep my mouth shut to keep the peace; a normal conversation is not a possibility. How am I going to keep a check on myself so I never ever slip into normal conversation with him? It just drives him mad. I feel sick

Hi Everyone. Welcome Weekell and Tierdof. I'm no expert in identifying AS, and it seems to me they can all be SO different irt makes it very hard. Staying awake late sitting alone painting his train set does ring a few alarm bells though! And not realising when comments are hurtful.
I'm really strugglig to cope woth the lack of empathy from DH; I've had a really traumatic week health wise (I won't go into the gory details), and he makes NO allowances for this. He still makes hurtful comments; there is no attempt to pamper me or make me feel better. I just feel so alone. It makes me panic to think he won't change and that I'll never have tenderness or compassion. I feel sick about it. And fucking lonely

Hello tiredoftherain and weekell75... and everyone else on this thread.

I found it useful to use the National Autistic Society's guidelines for getting a diagnosis when trying to decide if my DH was possibly AS. It helps to write things down rather than have them swimming round and round in your head! It also helped my husband see a bigger picture rather than all the aspects as separate bits.

I went through each point and found many examples of behaviours that 'fitted'. Also useful is a book, AS and Long-Term Relationships by Ashley Stanford. She went through all the diagnostic criteria showing how her husband 'fitted'. It was really invaluable because it showed how difficult it can be to identify behaviours sometimes.

My DH also did the online tests too and we found them a helpful guide, though with me beside him to ensure he was fully understanding the questions and answering in the broadest sense, not literally.

Good luck with your exploration, hope you get some answers.

Hi weekell75 and tiredoftherain - welcome, some of the things you describe could be AS traits. There are some online tests for autism/AS for more info. If you google "autism quotient" or "empathy quotient" you'll find them. Let us know how you get on...

hi everyone, I've followed this thread but not posted before. I've just split with my H for many reasons posted on other threads, but a few people have since said to me that they suspect he has mild AS. One of these is a doctor who is a real expert in the field so I do trust her opinion as being an educated one! I'm now wondering if this is part of the reason I've struggled so much to relate to H and whether it might explain some of his recent behaviour.

H had very delayed speech as a child, but had fully caught up by age 5 and was very academically able. He also had (has) immature social skills and as an adult relates best to people he can put in context - a hierarchy at work, for example. He really struggled to relate to my family as he just didn't know how to place them. He could also be really competitive with me, was honest to the point of brutality, and often told me he "didn't need friends" or anyone's approval.

I'd also considered NPD, as he tended towards being emotionally abusive in the last year of marriage. If I tried to explain the effect of his throwaway comments to me, such as "familiarity breeds contempt" he could never get why I seemed upset and reacted by becoming hostile and defensive. I've never felt he could see things from my point of view.

One of our dc's is about to begin the diagnostic process for AS, and I can also see traits in FIL. Does this sound familiar to anyone else? It won't change my situation, as there is no going back for us, but I'd be interested to know if this rings bells.

Hi,

I am new to this forum but was searching for clues as to whether my DH has AS.
Some things he has done:

Left our baby DS outside a chemist to get something
Left our baby DS in the bath whle he went out to look at a noise in the street
ALways leaves our baby DS in the car in the street while he waits for someone/body to get ready and get into the car
Gave our infant DS Benylin 4flu instead of Calpol.
Put a dirty bottle back in the fridge, to be used again.
He came home TWICE with the wrong bottles that I asked him to get.

Oh I could go on. He remembers stuff he is interested in, but nothing that is told to him.
He loves to sit alone at night and paint his train sets, or look at car magazines.
I can ask him a question, and he will answer, but to a different question. Sometimes he just doesn't get what I mean, even though it is a really simple question.
When I cry, he doesn't know what to do a lot of the time. I have to ask him to give me a hug.

What do ye think?
Thanks!!

Hey everybody,
got a dodgy internet connection at the moment so not been online much, but rest assured I'm still on the case, working out how to live with AS hubby everyday!
He actually did some really sweet stuff this week; he can do it if he's in a good mood; it's the long black moods that are a killer....
But he's going to doctors to ask to be referred for diagnosis this week.
My stress levels get so high when he's in a black mood as every five seconds he's criticising what I'm up to or else he's marching around with a huge frown on his face.

The empathy thing is the hardest to explain. It really is, for me, like people standing a totally blind person in front of a beautiful oil painting and getting upset that they're not saying complimentary or useful things about it. I just can't see people, or hear their tone of voice, so what people get is the effect of that blindness, not the effect of me not caring.

Gets most tricky when my ability to communicate in words shuts down, leaving dh entirely unable to see my reactions, and me unable to say what I need. That's when two ASC individuals being married to each other is the most difficult and potentially disastrous.

MrsAsp, I hope that the weekend has been better for you. When the weight of all the responsibility and dealing with another child in the family gets too much, and you feel like running away - do it! I don't mean leaving home, but do something that you'd normally feel guilty about, like having a coffee with a friend, or an indulgence that you would normally be able to enjoy. So what if the dishes aren't done or the washing machine isn't fed - nobody's going to break a leg because of it.

Another way of getting through the time is don't try to focus on the big picture, as your imagination is likely to run away with you, and there are so many variables influencing this that its highly unlikely that the big picture is going to come true. Try instead to focus on the next small step, which is after all a positive one in the right direction. Once you've achieved that, work on the next one and keep going forward.

And for everyone else, I too thought that my DW had NPD a few years ago. Somehow, it didn't quite fit, and although it ticked a lot of boxes on her behaviour, I mentally put it to one side. ASpergers however ticked a lot more and a lot more confortably. Possibly we take the lack of empathy to be an extreme form of selfishness.

That's brilliant MrsAsp! Well done you, keep up the good work. Have a lovely weekend.

*Mrs Flitter*!!! I know that feeling when you think you're head will explode! Can't think of anything worse than stroppy kid, stroppy DH, critical Mum, ill health and mad ex's!! It's a combination I've often had to deal with myself, so i really feel for you. At least at the mo DS is being sweet as pie, Dh is singing all over the house happy as Larry, Mum is the other side of London and who knows where psychopath ex is, but at least he aint here. And my health is always dodgy, but not too bad.
Fingers crossed things get better.
I've also been doing some smart thinking for myself and thinking OF myself this morning; ignoring DH's mad rantings and doing what the hell I like and what i think is best for us as a family.

That's my theory ChiefFairyCakeMaker because that's exactly how I used to see myself. I used to soak it all up and feel totally wrung out, just like an old sponge!

Also, can I add that I too was sure my DP had NPD. Then after talking to my gp I thought he has dome kind of BPD (borderline personality disorder) so in a way it was a relief when the GP confirmed Aspergers was more likely to be at the root of everything.

Mrs Flittersnoop you've got so much stress in your life at the moment, if you're coping with that lot you're amazing!!!

None of it is your fault - DH's are good at blaming us aren't they? You need a mantra "I am a strong woman and I can cope with whatever life throws at me!"

Well I feel a lot better about my situation now, my life is a bed of roses compared to yours! (sorry that's not going to make you feel any better is it?!)

It's interesting that you thought your DH had NPD as I've thought this about my DH too, still not sure to be honest...not sure if he has the ability or desire to change, although he has (for now) just by me giving him space. He ticks a lot of boxes for AS though...

TimeForMe - liked the sponge theory is that a personal theory or out of a book?

MrsFlittersnoop I think you are a star!

I too hope you are ok today MrsAsp.

Hi Mrs Asp!

I really hope you're in a better space when you check back in here.

I wanted to thank you so much for having started this thread . By having the courage to share your experiences, you've helped a huge number of people and given us the opportunity to support each other. You've told us about your PTS, and believe me, this is making your situation much much harder to deal with.

You are are a real star!

Please take strength from those of use who are in a more stable place (and maybe older than you ). It IS possible to work things out, but you do need to learn to distance yourself from the nasty bits.

They don't mean what they say. I spent a long time thinking my DH had NPD (seen other threads ). The difference is - I have discovered that my DH is capable of modifying his responses and is very receptive to suggestions about how to alter his reactions to emotional conflict, and the important thing is - he CAN change.

DH hates rows too. He is terrified by his our of control reactions, and because he was diagnosed at a very young age (9)with dyslexia/dyspraxia/add (he is 43 BTW) , he can accept that his behaviour isn't, well normal.

Nasty bits.

I've had to cope tonight with the lad literally stamping around like a lunatic on my mum's balcony and bellowing down the phone about a progamming problem to a client for the last 3 hours. He is totally wired on caffeine and has smoked about 60 billion roll-ups. The neighbours have just come round to (very politely) complain, because it is midnight.

My 81 year old mum has an attack of chronic IBS (TMI ) and is currently totally insomminiac. She hasn't slept for more than 4 hours in one stretch since we moved in 6 weeks ago.

DS (13) as just been diagnosed by his new school with Dyspraxia/Aspergers. His father (Ex-DP) can't accept this and spent yesterday evening yelling down the phone at me that it was my crap parenting that has cause DS's problems.

He refused to come for his access visit all week, and then rang me 10 minutes ago to announce he would visit after all. Tommorrow.

24 hours notice. To come and stay in the same house with me, DH, DS and my sick old mum and 40,00 boxes of star wars videos that we can't unpack becuase the carpet fitters can't ome for a fortnight.

Haven't been able to use my left arm for 4 months. Had to organise the house move from London to mum's house, DH's new school, £60K's worth of building work for my mum before we moved in with her, re-organise my mums house without pissing her off ( laugh emoticon) ; reorganise her decaying and crumbling mansion to slot in the contents of our 3 bed household, and have just found out I'm going to need surgery on my shoulder.

And I can't get a job right now 'cos my arm is out of action.

Everything is my fault apparently. Crap builders, crap kid, crap parenting, sick old mum, can't even get a fucking job or help unpack boxes or put up curtains or hoover under beds. And we've run out of bog-roll and....

AAARRRGGGHH!!!

My mother has just come and told me to go to bed because I have to be up for my CHILD in the morning.

DH is sitting in the dining room spray-painting Warhammer figures with undercoat, all over Aged Mama's beautiful antique rosewood table.

I am 48.

What the FUCK has happened to my life????

I'm not angry; my brain is just so tierd I want to sleep now; ALL WEEKEND!!!
Just had a shooting round the corner from my house! Deliver me from this inner city urban AS nightmare and plonk me down in a Welsh cottage, please God

Hey, you are welcome

Now listen, I know it's difficult but try to embrace your DH's good mood, don't waste it by staying angry with him. It will do you more harm than good. I think at the moment you are at the 'sponge' stage, that's where you soak up all the negativity and everything else that goes with the dark mood of your DH. Trouble is with this when he is over it you are left soaking!

I can sympathise because I used to be just the same. Like I said before these days I just do my best to ignore it and carry on as normal, I refuse to be a 'sponge' and I will do anything to stop myself from becoming one. I find ways to occupy myself and I refuse to take his mood personally. I find putting myself in his shoes and thinking of things from his perspective helps me to be more sympathetic towards him rather than blaming.

It's good news that he is happy to go for a diagnosis. I hope that helps the both of you to accept things and move forward positively

And good for you in taking the time to meet your friend. I would say time out for yourself is exactly what you need right now. You enjoy it! And why not make a pact not to talk about your DH and the aspergers? Have some time out from that too!

Feel so totally drained! Big couples councelling session today. I said I think DH needs to go for diagnosis and he's happy to go! At least then hopefully he'll stop blaming me for every misunderstanding.
Just pray that the GP will be able to sort it out.
DH is back to being cheerful again today, singing, joking, giving me a cuddle when i ask (not voluntarily of course).
Right now he's cleaning the kitchen and singing his little heart out. I just feel like a punchbag and too shell shocked to enjoy his good mood after seven full days of black bitterness.
Am meeting a friend tomorrow for a coffee; i can't afford the time as I have so much to do but sod it I bloody need it. Just a shame she can't relate to having a AS DH. Any of you girls fancy a coffee? Might call you up one day Timeforme; thanks for the offer.

I can relate to that too. My DP pops in and out to see me but he always leaves my door wide open! I think he has no problem with me being in my own room but he does have a problem with the door being closed, sometimes I think he pops his head round the door just so he can open it! He seems to like his space but he likes to know I'm there IYSWIM? Bless him

TimeForMe I know what you mean, I think I would feel smothered in a "normal" relationship too! I'd be saying "haven't you got a obsession hobby you want to spend all your waking hours on instead of getting under my feet? Shoo! Shoo!"

I really enjoy my own time watching what I want on telly each evening. If he ever comes in the room I'm on edge and can't relax.

Good Morning everyone

How are you today MrsAsp? Feeling a little better I hope. You know, if you want a really good, deep moan, if you want to offload in a bigger way than you feel you can on here then you are more than welcome to contact me. I am more than happy to 'listen' and help you in anyway that I can. That applies to anyone else too, I'm a good listener you know!

ChiefFairyCakeMaker I can so relate to your post. Doing as you have done in creating an emotional and physical distance between you and your DH is how I managed to get myself on an even keel again. And no, it may not be a recipe for a happy marriage for everyone but it works for you and that's all that matters. In fact, I would say that it's essential really. I think our relationship works well because we don't live in each others pockets, my DP needs his space otherwise he feels smothered and this can lead to a bit of a melt down so I am more than happy to give him the time he needs because we all benefit. I have actually come to enjoy it now! I was laid in bed last night thinking of this thread and your post and it got me thinking that I don't think I could cope in a 'normal' relationship now, I think it would be me who felt smothered!

MrsAsp, I really feel for you as I spent years feeling like you do. My DH can also be very negative when depressed and it's incredibly draining. I was desperate for some appreciation, praise, compliments from him, I would get so upset, but the more upset I got the more angry he got. So after many months I've had to emotionally distance myself from him, and physically distance myself from him too to some extent, we spend very little time together, just some family time at weekends and the odd mealtime (which can be tense) but we manage to co-exist in the same house and share a bed. I distanced myself in order to survive and it seems to work! I'm not recommending this as a recipe for a happy marriage, just suggesting you do what you need to do in order to survive physically and emotionally.

Thanks Timeforeme I am knackered. Physically and mentally you're right. I'm also totally tense and unable to relax. There's about five balls I'm juggling at the mo, and it's doing my head in. DH does help, but sometimes when he's in a black mood he just lies there
Cos I'm tierd I'm also feeling abit feeble and would love a cuddle and a kind word, but of course I'm not getting it. I do feel a bit over emotional. I'll try to be strong and ignore the AS. I want to go somewhere warm and quiet and calm, not my house that's for sure, back to the womb peut 'etre?

I get the feeling you are exhausted MrsAsp, physically and mentally.

You know, you can take a bit of a break even while you are living with DH. In order to do that you simply have to accept that you are responsible for everything and expect nothing from him. Just allow him to 'be'. It's not as difficult as it might sound, trust me And it's not about you giving up on him and taking everything on yourself, it's more about calling a halt to the battle you have going on internally and externally. Sometimes it's the constant 'trying' that wears us down more than anything, trying and getting nowhere. So, take a break from trying. Give yourself a couple of days where you just 'let go' of the AS and concentrate on yourself. Treat yourself kindly and nicely, do something nice for yourself. Give yourself a break from thinking about the AS too as quite often we over think everything and this can be exhausting too. Take as long as you need. You will know when you are feeling better when you look at your DH and smile rather than frown

Cross posted with you there Timeforme- I agree DH is thinking he's being helpful and constructive, but when you're making loads of effort, and he says stuff like "You're wasting your time doing that" I feel like throttling him. He swore earlier today that "You're wasting your time" was good sound advice, so he definately thinks he's being helpful, not downright rude as it come s accross.
I think also he is pretty sad that he constantly upsets me. I just don't have much patience at the moment.

Hi, I don't think he's manipulative or deliberately destructive when he makes these comments he just gives me his opinion and never couches it in flowery terms, never softens it, never takes into account the emotional impact of what he's saying. And when he's in his black moods he does see pretty much everything negatively; he gets depressed. Maybe negativity isn't a characteristic of AS, but it is a characteristic of depression and he's defiantely got that too.
Plus I think his depression stems from his AS, his confusion with the world.
He's lovely when he's not in a black mood, but when he's in a black mood I end up so desperate.

MrsAsp I'm so sorry you are having such a hard time. I really feel for you. I used to get really defensive when my DP 'critised' my way of doing things and I too thought he was being negative but after thinking about it I realised that he wasn't meaning to be critical, it was the way I was interpreting it. As far as he was concerned he was being helpful and constructive. It caused some friction though I can tell you

I just wondered, have you tried telling him directly that you would like some help? Given him specific instruction? This works a treat in our house. When I think of the number of hours I have wasted waiting for DP to simply know what I want or need I could kick myself! And when I think of all the upset that has been caused due to miscommunication it makes me very sad.

Also MrsAsp, I just wonder how your DH is feeling. Maybe he is sensing how upset you are and this is causing him to feel the fear that Amberlight describes. It helps sometimes to step into the shoes of your DH/DP and try to see what is making them act the way they are. Sometimes, something as simple as a smile or a bit of a laugh is enough to make my DP feel secure again and bring him round.

Stay strong MrsAsp, you will be just fine

I'm not convinced that AS means negativity. I know so many people with AS, including myself, dh, many friends, many acquaintances and work colleagues etc - many of them men, and few are relentlessly negative or horrible. I am not for one moment saying that people are not accurately relaying how their partner is, but I am wondering whether it's the AS that's doing it. Negativity isn't a characteristic of AS. Fear can be, and so can flashes of meltdown temper in some of those with AS when totally overloaded, but it's like a toddler tantrum, not like manipulative deliberately destructive comments designed to hurt someone. That's just nastiness, which is something different.
If a partner is setting out to make life hell, then they really do have to stop doing it. AS is no excuse for that at all, I'd say.
If an AS partner is being undiplomatic, or antisocial about socialising, or frightened of change, or needing a lot of detail about what is going to happen next, then those are definitely AS things, though.

Am sat here crying agin; or trying not to as my Mums downstairs with ds and I don't want her to see.
DH deep in a black mood that's lasted since last Thursday as far as I can recall. I'm struggling really hard to juggle loads at the mo; he isn't helping much and also making negative comments about all my efforts. We've got tons on as a family at the mo and it's all falling on my shoulders; it just adds insult to injury when i'm doing all the work then my efforts are criticised constantly.
I just feel so alone. And I can't even talk to anyone about it (apart from you ladies) as noone would understand what AS is.
Can they learn to bite their tongue and to say nice things?
DG doesn't even see that he's being constantly negative; he thinks he's just being realistic and straight talking .
All our AS men seem so different to each other, but so similar too.
And no, I'm not getting out with my friend tonight; she blew me out as her DH came home from a business trip early.
At least my DS is the most lovely boy in the whole world. I'll go downstairs and play with him.

And I totally agree with you about the needing to talk about emotional stuff ending in defensive accusations MrsFlittersnoop. That's why I don't instigate talks of that nature any more. My DP responds wonderfully to the written word so if I have anything I need to say I send him an email. The first time I did this it was out of pure desperation and I was amazed when he replied with an email which revealed much more than he would ever have done verbally. It's like communicating with a different man sometimes.

Totally agree about the list of Good Things about our husbands . My DH is forever telling me I'm attractive and wonderful but isn't very good at translating this into action, i.e. doing stuff for me that actually NEEDS to be done!

But it's very hard sometimes when any need to talk about emotional issues results in accusations of complete selfishness ("Why does it always have to be about YOU?") and God forbid if you should ever cry in front of them, tears are always "self-pity" even when you've just received the news that your only child might be on the Autistic spectrum .

I've come to treat our differences as "cultural". I have friends who've married people from very different countries and cultures, and certain differences such as sense of humour, ideas about food or child-rearing or attitudes towards family relationships have to be understood and accepted. We also have several friends and colleagues with Aspergers - it often comes with the territory in computing. My SIL is a Professor of Computing Sciences and takes it completely for granted that her most brilliant PHD students are unlikely to be NT.

Even she thinks my DH is a REAL geek though!

I'd forgotten how supportive this thread is, and how much that helps .

That's a lovely post wdmp and totally true.

Another thing I find helps me, especially when I'm feeling low and not liking DP very much is to list all of his good points. I think sometimes the negative side tends to take over and it's easy to get lost in it and start to feel like a victim. My DP has many wonderful qualities some of which I think are more wonderful and perhaps enhanced because of the AS. See, it's not all bad is it?

Hi timeforme, cfcm and others

I share your sentiments exactly... I found that my husband's moods and anxiety levels can feed off me if I give them any attention - it's all very confusing because my normal approach to a loved one's problems would be to offer talk and hugs etc. but this process does not seem to help with DH... quite the opposite in fact. Ignoring is definitely more effective for some reason - in the short term anyway.

It is all a very long learning process, and often one step forwards two back, but focussing on myself was the best thing - oh and getting the diagnosis of course.

Gradually I have managed to change my expectations and come to terms with the disability, through understanding it I guess. I am beginning to accept DH for what he is and what he isn't. I still get frustrated at times though, but the levels of anger have definitely diminished and almost disappeared - and this in itself has helped my DH to behave more 'relationshippy'... or whatever the word is!

And as for needing compliments mrsasp, I now get them from other people - friends, colleagues etc. but this doesn't mean DH doesn't love me. It menas he has a communication disorder - that's all! DH is not too bad with giving compliments but has said in the past that although he does notice and appreciate stuff, he can not articulate his feelings/thoughts mainly because he is too anxious in case he causes an argument. He has had many experiences of complimenting 'wrongly', so worries about saying the wrong thing and is always censoring himself, which doesn't really help a relationship.

Oh, life's a bowl of cherries indeed!

I think you are probably right about the reason why your DH is seeming more cheerful ChiefFairyCakeMaker, I find exactly the same happens here. I also think that when I am happy my DP is happier.

We have just had a week long period of one of his black moods though. I got through it by letting him get on with it . I kept myself busy and refused to think it was anything to do with me. He came out of it as suddenly as he went into it and everything is good again now. I do wish I understood what brings about these moods but I do know that the less attention I give them the less damage is done. I did used to try to talking to him, find out why he was being as he was but this just made things worse, he felt attacked and would become defensive and in turn I would feel attacked. It was just a vicious circle of getting nowhere, just pointless friction. Sometimes 'ignoring' is the best way to go

timeforme - that's very good advice and I would second it. I've been through a similar process recently and I'm learning to get my emotional support from elsewhere and accept DH for who he is and his limitations. Having said that, he's been really cheerful lately (possibly because I've stopped being so "needy"?) I may struggle again if he gets in one of his black moods again.

The TV isn't an issue because he spends all his time on his obsessions so I can watch what I like, although he criticises my choice of programmes, and if he's ever in the room when I'm watching telly it can lead to a row.

I wasn't 'allowed' to watch my kind of programmes either MrsAsp but I solved that by taking over a spare room downstairs, installing a TV and lots of lovely things and making it my own little haven. I love it and to be honest wouldn't have it any other way.

In answer to your question about compliments no, my DP doesn't do compliments. For instance, when I have my hair done he will say "That looks better" rather than say it looks nice. Of course it does look better so he is only saying it how it is. I once asked him why he never told me I looked nice and he reply was that I always look nice so he doesn't need to tell me. I understand his logic but it would be nice to hear something complimentary now and then. He never tells me he loves me either but that's because he thinks I should know he loves me because he is with me.

I can totally relate to your when you see your DH lovingly interact with your DS, I get the same feeling when I witness DP's affection with DD, it does sadden me a little that I don't get the same kind of attention.

As for your DH changing, I wouldn't rely on it, I wouldn't wait for it BUT, you can change yourself, you can change the way you react and respond, you can accept him for who he is and work with it, you really can. And it does work. Don't get me wrong, I have my down times too, times where I just want to leave and find someone who can love me the way I would like to be loved, show me affection, hold a conversation with me without walking out of the room while I'm talking but I love my DP too much. I remind myself that if he had been involved in an accident and become disabled I would never leave him because of that, I would work with him, adapt, just as I do now

It's very hard isn't it MrsAsp, I can totally understand your sadness and your frustrations. I hope you don't mind me saying this but you come across as though you are trying to fight the Aspergers, as though you know it's there but you can't/don't want to accept it, but of course I may be wrong, it has been known . I was like you for a long time, mainly because it's very hard to believe, I think maybe because it's not something we can physically see, plus there are times of 'normality' which can make you doubt that Aspergers is the problem but, the minute you do accept it things do get better. I regard my life as 'normal' now because it is normal for me and my DP. It may not be the same as everyone else's, we may work together differently but the main thing is we do work together. Most of the time!

I'm so bored with it now; don't even want to try for a hug cos it's all false anyway if he doesn't even want to hug me. Am starting to not want to even bothering telling him anything, like about my day or a story about ds cos the reaction is so crap. ither complete silence cos he thinks what I've said doesn't need a reply or grabbing completetly the wrong end of the stick. If there was hope that all this would chnage then I'd probably feel a lot more like trying, but he's not going to change, is he?

Mine watches Star trek or deep Space Bollocks or whatever they call it these days, and lots of crap comedy too. I am NOT allowed girly TV, Super Nanny, Wife Swop, Trinny, Susannah, etc. No soaps either.
And pigging out on chocolate and crappy snacks is another habit.
Do yours ever say anything nice about you, or praise you? I'm dying here without it. If I ask him to say something nice about me (beg him!) he comes up with something, actually sometimes he really struggles and can't come up with anything , but always follows it wth a "But...." that totally negates the compliment! Like "You are good at so and so, BUT you always have to go too far, etc, etc". Some bloody compliment!
I'm starving here, unappreciated. I feel pretty hollow.
Also he gazes at DS with love and grabs him for cuddles which also makes me

And another DP here who spends his evenings watching reruns of 70's tv. He also went back to work 2 days after I had given birth to dd without batting an eyelid and didn't have a clue why I was so upset about it. That's after leaving the delivery room within 10 minutes of cutting the cord so he could go and make his phone calls announcing her birth, leaving me without so much as a kiss or a "well done". This thread gives me so much comfort, it's lovely to know I'm not alone

MrsFlittersnoop I just read your post - I can't believe your DH watches 70's tv to relax too ! We have the some mother's do ave em box set for emergencies. Perhaps this retro thing is AS related?! At the moment his snack of choice is monster munch. We have a whole cupboard full of them. He confessed to me the other day that when I'm not around he eats them with a fork because he hates getting his fingers dirty .

Hi MrsAsp!

Yes, your post c-section story rings depressingly true. DP has come out with some howlers - like asking me if I would like personal training sessions for my birthday this month - er no thanks I've just had major surgery, remember and trimming my waistline is frankly neither recommended nor appealing...

But it must said he's bonded amazingly with DS, spends loads of time cuddling him and looking after him. He said to me, with a bemused face, 'it's funny but I just get this urge to kiss him all the time!' It's enough to make me feel
when I have often felt starved of his affections.

So on we struggle. The baby is indeed a huge distraction from DP. When he's in his dark mood, which comes down fast and without warning, I just snuffle my little one and tell him the story of Bluebeard (DP's jokey or not so jokey nickname).

And yes, we are in Brighton, but have only just moved here from London via Germany.

Definitely get your night out with your friend, I've found it quite hard moving away from my friends - we're quite an insular couple for all our grumbles, but I've always gone out with my friends several times a week (pre-baby of course). There are only so many games of scrabble one can play, especially now my brain is all fluffy and my competitive edge is nowhere to be seen.

We want to try for another too! DP asked me when we were in the taxi on our way to the hospital to be induced. Timing, eh !

Welcome back Makipuppy! Was wondering about you this morning as I posted. It's actually hugely comforting to hear from someone who is struggling in similar circumstances, so don't worry about not having good sound advice for me!!
I remember after my C section with DS four years ago the catch phrase in our house became "I've had major surgery!" because I had to tell Dh that EVERY day to stop him expecting me to jump up and do this and that- he literally would FORGET that I should be resting. Then I got ill with good old mastitis and some other yucky stuff and again every day when he got home from work he would have FORGOTTEN that I was unwell and have to be told again. And he thinks I'm severely bonkers because of all the crying. Bloody hell I wouldn't BE crying if it wasn't for him driving me up the friggin wall.
He's always looking for werid ulterior motives in my actions too cos he just can't figure them out-Er, HELLO, it's called having emotions!!!
I wondered how you were getting on with your new baby. I'm mad enough to want another baby with DH, despite the rollarcoaster that is life with him. Babies are so great they at least afford some light relief from these AS men. I get confused between you and Makedoandmend; were you down near Brighton?

I meant to say sorry I can't read the whole thread and catch up with what is happening but looking after a newborn does seem to take all day (not that I don't love it!)

MrsAsp, this is Makipuppy as was catching up with you here, remember me from the beginning of this thread of threads?!

Sorry you're still finding DH's emotional incompetence exasperating. I've been compelled to post, not because I can really give any good advice, but just to say I understand exactly where you're coming from. We had our DS four weeks ago and although we're very happy, DP is head-over-heels with the baby, he's found it very difficult to have any sympathy with me, discharged 24 hours after a c-section. I really thought he would step up and look after me, but he's ignored my day 4 hormonal nosedive, and diagnosed my tears as 'self-pity'. I was SO upset. After a blazing row he said if I couldn't say why I was crying then I had no reason to cry, it didn't make sense, it was impossible to cry over nothing so I was being manipulative etc. When he calmed down a bit (he can't bear being made to feel guilty) I told him he has to accept he has problems understanding other people's emotions. The midwife asked him how he was coping with the impact of the birth on me, mentioned the usual post-birth emotional rollercoaster (just in a general way, not based on anything I said as actually I'm pretty chipper) and he looked at her blankly and said, well, she always cries quite a lot

Anyway, you're not alone. I hope you get him down to the doc for diagnosis one day soon, I really feel putting a name to it will give you firmer ground to stand on.

Well, all the ones I hook up with do...[self pity emoticon]

Am gonna try to get him to go for a diagnosis. At least then it will be clear and not a "Maybe". I don't know how much it'll help; but I'd like him to stop accusing me of being the one who causes all the commnication problems, so at least that might put a stop to all the blame. Maybe.
Spoke to the doctor about it today and she's primed ready for if i do get him down there. He's just so baffled as to why every conversation we have descends into chaos.
I'm going to try to get out for a night with my friend tomorrow night, boy I need it. haven't told her about DH's AS, and feel a bit awkward to do so as most folks don't understand. Aslo she has a 7 year old son recently diagnosed as on the autism spectrum, so to offload to her about how unhappy DH is making me feel might be a bit tactless as she'll no doubt relate it to her son's condition and perhaps feel bad that he'll annoy some woman and drive her to the brink someday!!! Though frankly, don't they all?!!

I think DH's main prob is that he really doesn't know he has AS; he hasn't even really looked into it or read about it, although he says he's open to the possibility, so he really doesn't think he has ANY problems wth communication; it's all down to me not talking to him properly . He can't see that he's just so damn negative all the time; never gives praise, only ever criticises. He doesn't see this about himself, so when i get fed up of his constant negativity and I snap at him it is of course ME who is being out of order, not him.
He has no inkling of the fact that i have a lot to put up with with him; he thinks he has a lot to put up with with me, so it's a stale mate really.
He does bellow at me, which I've been told by a few other wives on this thread is common to AS men, especially when they can't understand what you're saying, and he does get very depressed, but I'm not sure if he's abusive and mentally ill, wdmp. It's hard to say! Acting in an AS manner to your DW for 7 years with no inkling that you have the condition and therfore a belief that you are right in your behaviour does come accross as pretty abusive! Though of course it's inadvertent on the part of my DH, and actually very hard for him to change. Ughh! Who knows- its all spinning round in my head; I don't know what to think. He doesn't fly off the handle in a loud or violent way, just rants at me abit and sometimes storms off. I'm the one that screams my head off sometimes.
He came back so sad today after his storming off this am. He says he doesn't know what's going on, but there's somthing very strange happening, referring to our miscommunications every time we try to discuss anything. I want to tell him the strange thing that's going on is AS! But I don't really want to bring it up when he's in a black mood as he may take against the idea and insist I'm wrong. He knows something isnt right I think; he looks so sad. I do love him. I would be so willing to help him if he'd stop blaming me for all our troubles and take some responsibilty.

just been provoked (OK, I know I shouldn't have risen to it) into another exchange of words. She has no concept of the family, but only of her own interests. She seems to believe that the more points she scores off me, the better our relationship will be.

I'm sorry if this looks like an attack by implication on any ladies with Aspergers who post on here - its' not meant to be and is just a reflection of my personal situation. The major differential is that my DW doesn't realise that she has Aspergers and that not everyone thinks in the way she does.

mrsasp, You've no idea how much your last message stikes a chord with me!I haven't posted cos I've been having a bad weekend, and have been dragging myself back to sanity with the wonderful products of Mr Freddie Heineken, but it really seems at the moment that the armageddon of just walking out would be less tahn the hassle of trying to put up with it.

One of your previous posts mentioned communication, which reminded me of the time my DW actually agreed to do something on a date that I'd suggested, rather than when she wanted. She then realised that she'd made a mistake when I thanked her for agreeing to do something that would benefit me. Because it could only be my fault that I'd deceived her, she came out with the classic line of "why didn't you tell me that today isn't Thursday!" I of course was supposed to have perfect knowledge of what was in her mind, and because I didn't I'm in the wrong.

I've had the abusive email today, accusing me of the selfishness that she shows. We started counselling last week and she now wants to tell the counsellor about my behaviour in reaction to hers. I hope that she does, but at the moment I'm wondering if I'll get better value for money from adivorce lawyer than a counsellor.

Mrsasp - if you need some time away can you take it?

I find it exhausting dealing with all the issues all the time and a few days away from DH can be just what is needed to restore my energy and positivity. Can you go somewhere soon for a break?

It sounds like you are dealing with a lot more than AS - maybe your DH has mental health issues? He certainly sounds abusive which can be a sign of a very stressed/unstable person who is not coping at all!
When things were really bad between me and DH I learned to set firm, very firm, boundaries on what was acceptable to me or not. I found that it took a lot of strength to stick to them too as they were always challenged - and I insisted on living apart for a time too when we first started trying to sort the problems, otherwise there was just too much to deal with at once on a daily basis.

My DH is now getting help for his anxiety problems and so his behaviour has changed dramatically thankfully - I don't think I could live with him if he behaved the way your DH does and this was one of my boundaries - seek help or no relationship.

So take some time out somehow... you need it.

I'm totally sick of him; I can't stand the thiught of years and years of this. Even when I'm being nice he flies off the handle.
I just want to run away.

Welcome Mrs Flittersnoop - it seems there are many of us in this situation, which is good to know. Well, not good exactly, but at least we're not alone.

Sorry you're finding things difficult, it must be hard having both your DS and your DH to support. It must be an interesting contrast between your feelings for each of them around this. We expect to care for our DCs but we expect mutual support from our DPs.

I could relate to your point about your DHs "absolute obsession with his gadgetry at the expense of all his domestic responsibilities" and may borrow that line from you in my next row discussion with my DH about lack of help with housework and childcare! Also the point about being a single parent to two teenagers - I used to say I felt like a single parent with a recalcitrant lodger as DH spends nearly all his time in the spare room working on his obsessions!

Hope things get easier for you soon. Maybe we should all discuss coping strategies....

Yes, much before I had discovered this thread, I had come to the conclusion that I need to take care of myself. Now it seems it's even more necessary. But it's also so hard. I am someone who loves to talk. To clarify my ideas, I need somebody to talk to/debate which of course has always gone per shape with DH. And he just walks away!

Very early on in the thread, DidEinsteinsMum said something quite true about the AS logic. If you can't fix, then move on and don't worry about it. I am just seen that in action atm. DH's dad has been diagnosed with cancer. He has had surgery and will have some chemo in the next few months. DH reaction?? None. He is able to tell me the facts (His dad has gone to see the consultant, done this, will do that) but not one word about how he feels about it or what he could to help. I know he loves his dad so could not understand how he could be so 'cold' about it. Now it does make much more sense.

Hi everyone .

Apologies in advance for the long post I've been reading this thread for months now, and never had the courage to join in, perhaps because I haven't been able to admit to myself that DH is almost certainly on the spectrum. My username ought to be a dead giveaway though .

But my 13 year old DS is currently being assessed by the SALT team at school, and their initial thoughts are either dyspraxia or Aspergers. He is being referred for more tests with a consultant who specialises in ASD. It has been a really upsetting time but I've suspected for years that DS might be on the Autistic spectrum, only to be told I'm a pushy neurotic parent/DS is a spoilt only child/yada yada yada.

As a result, I'm having to face up to the fact that I'm the only NT member of the family, and a huge number of issues that have caused problems in our relationship for years (and the difficulties my DS has experienced at school) are starting to make sense at last.

My DH (DS's stepdad) is the archetypical geeky boffin. He has a very high IQ, works in IT, is severely dyslexic (diagnosed aged 9) and has strong dyspraxic and ADD traits as well.

Lostforwords, I couldn't help smiling when you wrote about doing the test on you DH's behalf - I did just the same thing a few weeks ago! I scored 12, he scored 37 .

DH is a very affectionate and tactile person, but doesn't "get" boundaries and his behaviour can be quite inappropriate at times. His memory and personal organisation are truly appalling, (I mean disasterously dreadful with catastrophic personal and professional results) and he frequently walks out of the room or abruptly interrupts or changes the topic during conversations.

I can relate to many of the descriptions of odd behaviour posted here, the obsessive watching of old 1970s sitcoms to chill out, the inability to sit at table, eat a meal and have a conversation at the same time (DH HAS to watch TV when he eats) the absolute obsession with his gadgetry at the expense of all his domestic responsibilities.

I feel like the single parent of two teenagers, instead of a wife and mother. I have to take charge of every aspect of our lives apart from DH's work. Everything else get left to me. He can't cope with paying bills, arranging appointments or holidays, household budgeting, moving house, finding schools etc etc.

Because of his dyslexia, DH has always been very aware that "his brain is wired differently" as he puts it. After long chats about DS's probable dyspraxia and because he can see the overlap with his own dyslexia, he is gradually coming to accept that he also has many Aspie traits. He feels less threatened now he realises just how common it is for these conditions to co-exist.

Reading the posts on this thread have been a life saver for me. The last few months have seen huge upheavals for us, moving to the other side of the country to live with my mum, DS starting a new school, and we've all had ongoing health problems. Sometimes DH's coping strategies in response to stressfull situations are so odd and inappropriate I'd have either gone mad or poisoned him by now if I hadn't gained some perspective on his behaviour.

lostforwords - I could have written your post! A lot of things in it rang true for me, such as the lack of affection putting you off sex - I liked the masculine/feminine cuddles analogy - very true , and not knowing if your depression contributed to the problems you are having, so you have my sympathy. I have been stressed out and exhausted since having the DCs, with a couple of periods of depression, which like you made me "angry and very very emotional" and DH just couldn't handle it.

He would freak out, he would attack me verbally for not coping. It was as if when I needed his support most, he turned against me. We had an awful few years. He also had periods of depression during this time, which made him very angry and stressed out and very difficult to live with, and I realise now that I didn't support him well at those times. At the time I blamed him and he blamed me for our awful life, but I can see now that we were both to blame.

Fortunately, I've now got over the exhaustion and depression, and I'm coping a lot better now, which has had a positive effect on our relationship. I also went to Relate last year which helped a lot. I've learnt not to rely on him for emotional support anymore but to get on with my own life and spend time with my girlfriends, who have far more empathy. Hope this is helpful. [hugs]

Hello, Can I join you too?

I have been thinking quite a bit about DH and AS. Unfortunately, there is no way I can ask him to take the test himself so the best I can do atm is to do it for him (and be as impartial as I can). He scored between 31 and 38 ...

For me, the main thing is really about the lack of closeness in our relaionship. We joke that there are 2 types of cuddles, one is masculine and in effect cuddles = sex and the other is feminin and is all about being affectionate. One of the issue ofr me is that the lack of affection makes me want to shy away from sex. DH is definitively for the masculine part of it. As for affection, holding hands etc... it doesn't happened. Even with our dcs, it is obvious that he is forcing himself to give them a kiss and a cuddle before leaving for work which breaks my heart tbh. My 6yo is now more sensitive to my moods/new clothes or jewlerry than DH is. It makes me feel lonely, isolated and in some ways depressed, none of which helps in any way.

The other thing is that he is never ever getting angry at me but also never ever says what he thinks... I think it is his coping mechanism with me and with the rest of the world. The problem is that I never knows what he thinks so I tend to imagine the worst. Of course, normal chichat is out of question, cue for either silent meal if there is the 2 of us. If the dcs are with us, they are more or less only talking to me (ie, at 4&6yo, they have already learnt he is not very communicative ).

There are a lot of other thing that people have mentioned along this thread that really rings bell with me too.

However this is still realy stage for me. I am finding all this this very hard to handle. I do not know now if I am been the problem (ie I don't communicate properly, I had PND after dc1 but have struggled since then to find my feet again, cue for many occasions where I have been angry and very very emotional which would be hard to live for anyone AS or not). Or if a lot of the difficulties I have had these last 6 years haven't been made worse by DH's reactions and his possible AS. (One of the thing that really stuck with me is the fact he never realized I had PND, thought I was a fantastic mum at a time when I was very close to self harming). I am really not sure what to do so that I can improve things in our marriage. I suppose I am scared to put all the blame on him when it is me that has to change iyswim.

Btw, DH is a lovely man. He is helpfull around the house, helps with the dcs, loves me etc... These are the reasons why I am still hanging on even though I have dreamed to run away and return to my home country loads of time.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hi Devilmaycare

It sounds like a very frustrating situation for you, like bashing you head against a brick wall?

It took a long time for my husband to 'see' himself and, 3 years after diagnosis, he is still coming to terms with accepting his diagnosis. It's quite a big thing to accept having a disability when for all your life you thought otherwise I guess!

A couple of things I remember doing to change the impasse was firstly to stop arguing about it - no more endless circular discussions, what a relief!
Secondly, to help both of us see things clearly, using the NAS guidelines and Ashley Stanford's book 'AS and Long-Term Relationships' I made a chart of all the behaviours that fitted the diagnostic criteria so that the whole picture was on one very large page. My husband, people with AS, have difficulty seeing the whole picture, to generalise, so it was difficult for him to see his whole self. He sees all his behaviours as unrelated to each other - completely separate occurrences so was never getting a complete picture. Once I had made this 'chart/picture', he began to see a more comprehensive picture and began to see how he cold be on the Autistic spectrum.

About Cassandra Syndrome - I think it is not valid as it stands and needs much more exploration but that it's a good starting point. And I am really glad that someone is starting the research. I understand that being unable to communicate within our intimate relationships can cause serious emotional problems, but for both people in the relationship, not just the non-spectrum partner. It seems to me that both people in these mixed relationships are deeply affected by the inability to be understood - certainly my husband's mental health was more affected than mine and he became very withdrawn, anxious and unable to spend time with us, his family without being very stressed.

Anyhow, look after yourself... and good luck helping your wife understand - not easy!

Hi MrsAsp... I remember all too well the period of uncertainty that my hubby and I went through for a year or so before finally being diagnosed... we scoured all the books and every internet site doing all the quizzes... "Is he, isn't he?" looking desperately for conclusive evidence. It was a very confusing and unsettling time for both of us. I now know it isn't easy for non-specialists to 'see' AS, especially in adults who present as very complex cases - one professional said to us that my husband couldn't be AS because he used public transport!
I think you are right about your counsellor's summary of the mirror neuron stuff being up for dispute - I think it's a good thing to dispute anything non-specialists conclude! My husband cries when other people cry - not every time but sometimes, depending on the situation. I think with AS it's more to do with inappropriate emotional responses - being unable to control one's emotions, rather than not crying. So it might be too much crying, or inappropriate crying which is my husband. Hope that makes sense... and sorry if this confuses things more for you!

My husband's behaviour towards me when I am upset was always such a puzzle and seemed uncaring (no response) but I understand now that he is too scared to respond to my upset so freezes. It's a tough one and I am trying to deal with being upset and asking directly for whatever I need him to do...we are working on it!

Well... must go and get breakfast for the children... great to talk. Thanks for sharing your recent experience - it helps me figure out where I am

Amber, yes I was talking about ‘Cassandra affective disorder’. However, I think that it’s a bit more than problems with communication (if you forgive me for using this as a summary of your comparisons). I also agree with your comments on theory of mind – from my own observations, I don’t think that my DW lacks it, she just doesn’t understand why (rather than that) I don’t see things in the same way she does. Consequently to her, as she tells me, I’m the one with a problem, who doesn’t see the world like her and everyone else.

It’s this denial that is the big issue between us. If she were to accept her condition it might be more bearable, its just that when she continues to ask minute questions that seem to have no distinction from the ones she asked 5 minutes before, and then when I get frustrated and tell her that I’ve already answered that question 4 times, she then attacks me for being nasty to her! Also, her lack of empathy means that she doesn’t know when to stop. With 2 teenagers in the house, she insists on putting her point across until one concedes and admits that she’s right. Of course, this backing down by a teenager very rarely happens, and I’ve often got to step in and diffuse the situation, which means that she then turns on me and I get the sharp end of an accusation that I’m not supporting her in front of the children!

But coming back to Cassandra. It’s been pointed out to me years ago that I became a lot more uncertain and lacked the self assurance that I’d previously shown. Certainly I’ve felt a lot less confident than I had previously, but put this down to growing older and changes in lifestyle. I now think that the reluctance to go out, or having to analyse everything in minute detail, or to do things spontaneously has had an affect on me, and I must confess that I did feel more liberated when I heard about Cassandra. So what possibly differentiates the AS posters here is that they have ‘come out’ to themselvesand others, at least, whilst my DW is still in denial. It’s good to see that you’re all coping, especially wdmp, who mentions that things have improved since her DP was diagnosed.

Yet...it's a bit like someone who's blind not being upset because they can't see the other person is upset.... Many people with AS report feeling really really bad when they realise someone else is hurting or sad - our problem is that we can't see it, and it needs to be explained in words, along with a description of what needs to be done.

I need my friends and family to say "Amber, I am feeling so low/sad/scared/whatever - I need a hug/cup of tea/lie down/pint of wine/whatever works", then I know what it is, and can do what they need. And if I start trying to fix the problem instead of just listening, I need them to say "Arrgh, just shut up and listen, will you?!". Really clear instructions help so very much.

Not an answer for everyone, but it works for many of us.

Good afternoon people, welcome Wdmp, Gawkygirl and Devilmaycare, Lostforwords.
I hope you will all dip in and out of this thread as and when it is useful for you. I know that if there is a specific problem me and DH are having with communication for example I can come on here and ask advice as to how get round it. Just because things are going ok at the mo, calm before the storm normally, doesn't mean I don't want to hang onto this thread for dear life in case the tide turns (which it always does )
Good news is my DS is DEFINATELY not AS, he looks really sad and nearly cries if he sees someone else upset; mirror neurons they're called- our couples councellor explained it- most folks (NT'S) have mirror neurons in their brain so if they see someone in a certain emotional state they will literally FEEL some of what that other person is feeling. They "mirror" what the other person is feeling, hence making it easier to empathise. AS folks are missing these neurons she explained. I imagine that is up for dispute, but it made sense to me as regards my DH's behaviour towards me when upset, i.e. no empathy.

Hello

Just want to introduce myself and say "Hello".

My partner has AS and though we struggle with our relationship in all kinds of ways and most days we have to sort out any number of 'confusions', we do seem to be coping on the whole now. It does still sometimes feel impossible though at times - for both of us! It hasn't always been as positive and we have been through some very dark days, but since he was diagnosed 3 years ago things have improved a lot.

I've skimmed through this thread and just want to say to everyone that I think it's great that you are all writing and sharing experiences. Hearing other people's experiences helped me/us that's for sure. I was so desperate to meet other partners and talk that eventually I set up an opportunity for a support group to develop in East London for partners. I can give details if anyone is interested but not sure about posting them here?

Look forward to joining in the conversation here anyway... though not sure where to start as the thread is so full of interesting and varied comments.

Have to go to work now... will be back later

The standard list of AQ questions are really annoying, yes. And often aimed much more at men than the women.

I don't personally think it's an abdication of responsibility to have an autism spectrum condition any more than it would be for a blind person not to be able to see, or a deaf person not to be able to hear? We can only do so much to compensate. Doesn't mean we can't try, but we might not be able to do all that others can do. Or if we can, it might take ten times the effort and we get exhausted so much faster from trying. A wheelchair user might eventually be able to crawl up a set of stairs on their arms, but we wouldn't expect them to or think they'd failed if they couldn't go up as fast as we can. And they would get mighty exhausted trying to do so.

I use emoticons all the time if I can. Many people with an ASC use 'visual writing' - brackets, italics, bold, pictures, etc. Not all, because not all are visual thinkers, but it is more common, yes.

I have been ignoring this thread although it has caught my eye several times. Finally read it today (although skim reading towards the end). I think that I might be borderline AS. I'm not sure what to think of this: it's nice to be able to say "I can't help it, I was born this way" but it also seems an abdication of responsibility.

Was a bit cross with some of the questions on the diagnosis website - it kept asking agree/disagree questions like "people often say that I am insensitive". The correct answer is "no, people don't often tell me things like that". This is not because I am a sensitive/empathetic person. It's because I am HFA and therefore have no friends with whom I "often" have any sort of conversation at all.

I originally wrote this post using emoticons. I use them quite a lot. Is that because I can't express myself properly, I have to have 'diagrams' to explain myself? I have realised recently in RL that I am more and more frequently demonstrating or showing instead of explaining or verbalising.

I think couples generally grow more alike and together the longer they are together. I'll quite happily watch sport with DH (wasn't the cricket exciting?). He now automatically makes allowances for my idiosyncracies/Aspie traits. I can think of many many examples where this happens. But does he show any Aspie traits? No, I wouldn't say so. Interesting question though!

Do you mean what someone termed 'Cassandra affective disorder' - in other words, feeling really worn down by what seems like bizarre demands all the time?

In the same way as someone who is blind will need a guide to help them find their way around a new landscape, we need facts to find out way around a social landscape - a party, a pub, a supermarket, a church or temple, a family gathering. I'd hate to think that the disability-related need was being described by any professional or therapist as causing a new 'syndrome' or 'disorder' of some kind in our partners. Otherwise is there one that (for example) describes people who are married to deaf partners who have to relay what's said and who yearn for their partner to hear distress in their voice when they can't hear a thing?

People certainly can get totally naffed off with having to explain their lives in tiny detail for seemingly no reason, and equally naffed off with a partner who can't find the right way to display their feelings. But the reason is there.

Found a very mistaken page on this cassandra thing which says people with an ASC lack theory of mind. No, children with an ASC lack theory of mind. Many adults develop fairly good elements of it by learning it manually.

Diagnosis is very important for some couples - a real step forwards. If a partner really won't face the problems in a relationship, not sure what can be done.

Hi everyone! I stumbled across this thread when trying to find more info on how to cope with an Aspergers partner. I’m male with 3 DS, and the realisation that my DW may have undiagnosed Aspergers hit me 6 months ago. I can certainly relate to many of the issues found here – the lack of empathy, a willingness to apologise only if I apologise for something else, and in general a lack of logical thought and the ability to learn from a situation, to use this experience in the next similar situation.

I agree with other posters that many of the traits in isolation could be simply someone’s own foibles, but I’m now thinking that the sum of the total does mean that it’s not just idiosyncrasies.

DW is undiagnosed as she vehemently denies that anything is ‘wrong’ with her – she keeps telling me that I’m the one with something wrong. We’re at a bit of an impasse as having managed to get her to go to the GP, there’s a long story as to all the conditions she’s imposing to get to the next step in the process.

I’ve had a couple of chats with the Relate counselling line (which is very good, and I’d heartily recommend it). But one thing that I haven’t seen mentioned here is Cassandra syndrome, which has been identified by Maxine Aston. Basically, this is where the other half of an Asperger’s partnership also starts picking up Asperger’s traits, I suspect because of living in close proximity to the behaviours for some time. I now realise that I’ve become far more antisocial over the last 20 years, probably because of all the discussions before going out (who’ll be there, what should I say, should I talk about their daughter, etc) and the post mortem afterwards (was X offended because I said this, I shouldn’t have done that, etc).

Does anyone else think that there’s mileage in the Cassandra syndrome theory, and if so, have you been affected by it?

I have had a trying week trying to deal with problems 'caused' by people failing to quite grasp what I'm struggling with, when I'm trying to tell them. Empathy problems seem to go both ways, it would appear...

I do do cuddles, but I don't do kisses unless its DH or the children. I don't like my mum kissing me, and I know that hurts her, but its almost like an instinct that I pull away or steel myself for a kiss. I guess it might help if I told her I has Asperger's, but I've lent her several books, and she still doesn't seem to see me in them.

Good morning!

Amberlight I totally agree with the first paragraph of your 12:04 post, it is absolutely spot on!

Also, I have just had the best bout of sickness ever with DP, if there can be such a thing . I had an operation last week but rather than just expect him to know what would be expected of him I prepared him, told him what he would need to do, how I would be feeling etc and he has been absolutely wonderful. I am now 9 days post op and following my check up with the consultant told DP how well he thinks I am doing, how I have healed quickly and am ahead of schedule. DP has taken this literally and has returned to his usual self! As far as he is concerned I'm ok now! I will admit to feeling a little bit sad though, it was nice to have the attention

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPb5WPvpsU8

Silly me, forgot the brackets...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPb5WPvpsU8

You'll need the sound turned up a good way on your computer. About a minute long. Well worth it to understand a tiny fraction of what it can be like in our world.

I have now scanned most of the thread now and in some ways it is a relief.

DH is a lovely man but I have found it very difficult recently to get on with him. He doesn't do cuddles. He starts reading his magazine whilst we I am talking. Would be happy not to say a word during the meals. Has very unusual hobbies. One friend and another that is hardly in contact with anymore.
But never gets angry (as shouting etc...) but never says when something bothers him either so I am supposed to know he is tired/had a bad night/doesn't like to go & see my family (delete as appropriate !!).
I can't help but remember his answer when I said that I would like to get married (with him) : 'Well, you are the gf I have stayed the longest with so I suppose you are the one' Talk about being romantic!

I suppose my biggest issue is with the dcs. It is obvious he is not confortable with giving them cuddles, even like a kiss before leaving to go to work, and does it because he knows that's what he is supposed to do. He is also rigid nd snappy with them which drives me mad because I have spent a lot of time myself trying not to be snappy & shouting and work along the lines of UP and How to talk. The thing is, now that I read about AS, I can see how this is NOT going to work with him. But his ways are sometimes soooo annoying....

It really has driven me on the verge of divorce (something I would have done if I not being a SAHM/student).

I will have a look at the book someone recommended at the start of the thread and take it from there. I can't see how I could even bring the subject with him. He is so unconfortable with talking about himself, how he feels etc... But for me to have better insight will a good start.

I have just done the tests for DH. It scores at 37...

I'll have to take the time to read this thread carefully but so many of the comments have made sense to me : he is incapable of cuddling (but is OK for sex), fascinated by his 2 'hobbies' and would rather spend his time doing these than with his family, is struggling a lot with the dcs....

I don't thinnk talking to him about AS would help in any way but it might help me find ways to deal with it.

I'll come back to it!

I did the test for DH and scored him 33, so borderline. It's not fair to say that he never apologises, but he finds it very hard. Yesterday we had another convo about the incident with friend's DS and I tried very hard not to get frustrated or raise my voice. He just kept repeating that nothing happened and he knew he was fine. He explained a bit more that he had seen DS moments before and knew he couldn't have gone far which is why he answered 'I don't know' (being very literal). He also admitted he was tired and hungry which is why he didn't react quickly, ie leap up and help to look. He didn't explain this at the time because we were both so angry with him. He said he could see on my face how angry I was and he hates it when I am like that (reading between lines, he can't cope with it) He still would not accept that he had behaved badly in his reaction - he was very hurt that we thought he was capable of letting DS wander off and not look for him, as in his mind this was not what had happened. To be fair, it wasn't what had happened exactly but the way he reacted seemed as though it was. He didn't say he was there a second ago, or if he did, it was lost once she and I had started to worry and get angry. He just doesn't understand that the anger was with his reaction, he also said children can run off, we know, but it was his reaction that was so weird.

For what it's worth, I know many men with an ASC who do apologise and who are kind and supportive if someone explains what needs to be done, including mine. I suspect that the ones that don't are the ones whose partners in life find it the hardest to cope, but I think it's important to say from time to time that there's kind ones too. It can be done. There is definitely hope for people. But the man needs to acknowledge that it's never right to deliberately scare or hurt others, and needs to learn how not to do it. And their partners in turn have to learn how not to exhaust and overwhelm the men (or vice versa if it's women with an ASC). So different, so much to learn. And sometimes people are already exhausted and just can't manage it.

A general comment - If a score is below 32 on the AQ test, it's more likely to be something that isn't an ASC. Could be a personality disorder, OCD, something else entirely. There's certainly things similar to ASC but different.

Worth going onto YouTube and looking for the 'National Autistic Society Think Differently videos'. All short, all worth looking at to explain something of why we can seem rude and uncaring when we're coping with a totally overwhelming world.

Hi everyone my, this thread has grown since I was last here! So many of us now and all with the same story!

I can relate to so many of the things posted here, especially the never apologising. I used to do the same as you Kat2907 and stonewall until I figured he had got the message, the trouble is he never did and it was always me who ended up looking the unreasonable one. Nowadays I just tell him straight that I am upset by what he has said/done and would like him to apologise. He always apologises as soon as he knows that he needs to do so.

You sound to be doing great MrsAsp. You have come a long way since you started this thread

My DH never apologises either. It takes hours of me stonewalling him before he will, and then it's either qualified or only to make me talk to him again. Not that I advocate stonewalling as a solution, but in such cases I can't speak to him, he would take that as a sign that all is fine.

I don't know why it seems worse thinking of all the things that he does in the context of AS rather than arseholeyness but it does, today. I feel pretty down. Of course we have loads of other stuff going on too which isn't helping but I just feel flat and depressed. I don't know how I feel about him right now. The actions of the weekend have prfoundly affected me, but I'm not angry anymore, just depressed at the magnitude of things.

Hi *Fairy cakes*; does your DH accept that he has AS? My DH says he doesn't think he has but he hasn't ruled it out either which is good enough for me at the moment. We are seeing a couples councellor who specialises in rleationships where one has As and one doesn't. It has made my Dh abit easier to live with

MrsAsp - sounds like you're having a frustrating time! I know just how you feel, we have similar communication problems, and my DH never ever apologises for anything either, which does come across as very arrogant and rude, and is very frustrating!

Again, if anyone's in London I'd love to arrange a meetup.
The thing I find most annoying is that when DH has his AS moments and totally can't understand what I'm saying or gets the wrong end of the stick then clings to it for dear life, what happens is that he ALWAYS ends up furious with me, and blaming me for the misunderstanding and slagging off my communication skills, and telling me I don't speak properly.
Excuse me!!! It's not me that can't understand the subtle nuances of everyday conversation.
It's so depressing to have the misunderstandings happen so often, but it's even more depressing to be always blamed for them, and to often has a husband who is cross with you, when it ISN'T EVEN MY FAULT!!!
Today he's cross with me because he didn't tell me something and is furious because I then didn't know what he was talking about. He didn't tell me!! How CAN I know!! He assumes because he knows it then I must do too, and if I don't know it it must be because I DON'T LISTEN TO HIM!!! It's not that I don't listen to him; it's that he never bloody said it!!! I hate the fact that in our relationship he always considers me to be in the wrong; he NEVER apologises and never admits he was in the wrong. It's so arrogant. GRRR!

Kat In answer to your question, yes, they DO have to have an accident before they see it as real. I'm not joking.

These are the four tests I've found online. Could you get your DH to take them *AnotherMrsASpy?
My Dh scored ok on the first two, VERY aspergic on the third, and hasn't yet sat the fourth one, but I know he'll do badly on that as he can NEVER read my expression.

www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html
www.glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/SystemizingQuotient/SystemizingQuotient.aspx
www.glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/EmpathyQuotient/EmpathyQuotient.aspx
www.glennrowe.net/BaronCohen/MaleFemale.asp http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php

I don't really know exactly what makes them AS and not just men as it's often a thin line, but even though my DH scored normal on the first two tests and AS on the third, the councellor I contacted didn't have any doubts he was AS. She aslo thought that if there were difficulties, even if they were only in one area, then they needed to be addressed. One of my DH's main ones is having NO empathy. They don't always tick all the boxes.
If the communication is TERRIBLE then that is a good clue.
My DH NEVER leaves breaking distance between cars when driving. If a car stops in front, even if he is miles behind it, he'll carry on at the same speed heading straight for the back of it then break sharply at the very last second as if he's only just seen it. Gives me a F&**King heart attack every time.

MrsAsp- I have now name changed- did n't know you had a similar name- it was simply available.

The thing is- how do you know if your H has Asp, or if he is just from Mars?

I know quite a bit about Asps as I have worked with asp. kids.

I would have thought that my DH was a million miles from that, but have recently put 2 and 2 together over the things that drive me nuts.

However, they could aslo be typical male behaviour, or a personality type. He does have dyslexia, but not severely and it hasn't stopped him getting a degree.

I recently scored his behaviour and he got a score of 27 and Asp is 32 or more , but my score was 11.

These are some signs of whatever it is:

*He is very quiet, unassuming and amiable- but has no friends or only 1 or 2 and he never sees them anyway.

*He tinkers with his toys- bikes- for hours on end.

*He does have a pretty monotone voice.

*He often fails to pick up on my subtle puns and humour. ie I have to say I AM JOKING DOH!

*He has never read a fiction book, or any book in about 20 years- including those he asks for and then never reads.

*He likes collecting things for the sake of collecting, rather than using- eg he must have 7-8 cameras, but never takes a decent photograph!

*He has worked for the same company for 30 years although been promoted internally- as he seems to like the security.

*He doesn't comfort me verbally or physically when I am sad- I have to ask him to cuddle me or tell him what I think he should say.

He looks sad when he can't find the words- facial expressions are there- but no words.

BUT is this simply how some men are- ie not verbal, not communicators, not "female"!!!

I think I said I was on the verge of leaving him and although he really loves me, I just feel that for me the level of communication I want is not there.

DH also drives like a nutter too. He accelerates when I tell him to slow down to wind me up
God he sounds dreadful doesn't he. He isn't, not completely! He just dosn't believe it will happen to him. He can be trained - he now uses car seats automatically and seat belts but that is from me going on and on. He also straps DS into things after he fell out of his car seat (My fault) and hurt his nose, so that became reality to him. Fuck, does DS have to have an accident or get lost before he sees it as real?

Hi, Don't have much time to post as supposed to be cooking DS' tea, but wanted to say hi to Kat and MrsAspy. And I'm afraid they do both sound like they may have AS. The disregard for safety is something my DH definately has- he can't imagine it happening so doesn't try to guard against it happening- drives like a maniac, doesn't "believe" in safety helmets and seat belts
DH can never comprehend that anything bad might happen, whereas I am ALWAYS looking out for what might happen. I know another woman with an AS DH who refuses to get in the car with him.
Total lack of imagination. Fortunately my DH does not drone on and on ad nauseum, but my Dad definately does who I now realise has AS.
Collecting is also a sign.
DH also gets cross woth me if I'm drunk; it totally throws him.
Will post more later, but welcome to the thread.
BTW, MrsAspy, not meaning to be precious about my nickname, but it does cause confusion if you chose a name too close to an existing posters one; folks just scan the threaDS so they will always assume you are me and I am you, etc. so none of it will make any sense. It's also supposed;ly bad MN form to choose a name too alike another posters

Kat posted on your thread.

Can I join please? I doubt DH has full AS but I suspect he may be somewhere on the spectrum. I posted this today - could anyone comment?
Thanks!

I wonder if my DH has mild AS. Or if he is just typically male.

He has no problems at work and is in fact a peace maker due to calmness etc. Very stable, good job.

I know quite a bit about Asps. due to my work, but some things with him ring a bell.

If I am uspet- he doesn't comfort me either verbally or physically- he just stands looking lost and not knowing what to do. I have to ask for a cuddle etc.

He has no friends and loves his motor bikes, to the extent of taking them all to bits and putting them back again- whilst thehouse falls down around us.

When the kids play up, he deals with the moment and not the overall situation- eg. if my teenagers criticise my cooking, which one of them did at the weekend- after I had struggled to make a roast feeling foul with man-flu/ heavy cold- he told them that the food was fine, not too much salt etc- rather than saying "You are lucky to get such a nice home cooked meal when your mum is feeling foul and you have done bugger-all to help her."- which is the response I wanted.

He has no imagination re. going anywhere and comes up with the same 3 things every weekend, on a kind of rota system.

He doesn't like spontaneous, but neither is he rigid.

He "collects"- anything from till receipts ( by the carrier bagful- excuse is he needs to sort but never gets round to it), old bills, tools, cameras that he dusts but never uses.

Is he just a guy with odd hobbies etc- or is it more.

I am on the verge of leaving due to his inability to empathise- but is it just "normal"?

ps- not the orignal poster- we just have similar names.

No offence taken! Know what you mean about "male and AS"! Glad you seem to be getting lots of support too.

Hi, back again. Makedoandmend I rather rudely didn't get back to you after recalling you to this thread! Sorry. Really good to see you back here; I really identified with your posts about your DH, would hate to lose you in the fog of the Mumsnet Talk board.
Is Worthing near Brighton? (bit thick) It's just that in all my googling when i first suspected DH has AS I found a couple in Hove, one has As (the DH) the other doesn't, and they do councelling for other couples like them and run workshops on AS marriages, etc. Can't find a link at the mo, maybe google Hove ASpergers marriage, etc. They might be able to offer you some help/support even if your DH refuses to go.
At the moment me and DH are going to a councellor I found who specialises in the same thing (a marriage where one is AS and one isn't), and she is being VERY tactful and barely mentioning AS, so my DH doesn't feel labelled. In fact i could have probably got him there without even telling him she was an AS specialist, and she probably would have colluded with that if it was the only way we could have got DH to come to couples councelling (this is a new councellor for us BTW, the regular couples one was no good as he had no knowledge of AS, and was giving us tasks that might have worked for a NT couple but didn't for us-in fact, like you and your DH, we would usuually have huge rows after coming out).
Could you find an AS specialist councelor by stealth?
Further back in this thread someone mentioned that Relate have a special phoneline Tuesday mornings specifically for those married to DH's with AS; they may be able to link you up with a relate councelor who has that specialisiation. Because a normal councellor just doesn't realise what's involved with an AS bloke.
I phoned the National Autistic Centres helpline actually and they emailed me a list of councellors who specialise in this field which is how I found our lady that we see.
Your DH need not know that that is their specialisation; just tell him you didn't think much of the councellor you were seeing so you've found another.
These councellors know enough about the condition to know to be very sensitive and not insist DH face up to the diagnosis if he's not ready to. My dh just thinks me and him are different to each other which is why we need councellng; he hasn't come to terms with him having AS and we don't mention it much as if he takes against an idea then he can really dig his heels in and insist that I'm wrong; as I'm sure you know from your own DH!
Anyway, hope you come back to this thread and find this message for you.
I've also found a support group in London and actually met IN PERSON other wives with AS husbands!! I sobbed like a baby
I go to Brighton a bit, maybe we could have a stealthy coffee one day.
Good luck; we all BLOODY need it, i can tell you! (No offence to those with AS!! I'm sure you would probably agree that the men with AS are a whole lot harder for us to understand than the women with AS; it's like a double whammy-male AND AS! )

<wanders in and picks up alien survival guide/translator>

Ds's second week has been....

...well lets just say it is one to move on from. School is great but he hasnt cope so well but there has been so much that has been change so not really surprising. Hopefully, next week will be more stable and he will cope better.

<sits in corner quietly reading.

MrsAsp, I think I know what you mean. Whatever our level of disability, it's never right for people with an ASC to say deliberately cruel things to others. We can learn the rules for this.
Unfortunately, as I often tell my team, I am a walking Diplomatic Incident and can get myself into trouble with incredible speed and utter foot-putting-ness, only stopping to make it worse in any way I possibly can by trying to explain (badly) or correct the situation (in all the wrong ways).

I guess most of the adults who are just being diagnosed have never had a moment's specialist help their whole lives, so have ended up in all sorts of situations that we just haven't a clue how to handle. It's like being a foreigner in a country where no-one speaks English at all, and we can only find the phrases for things that no-one else is interested in and which don't get us anything we need. So sort of 'alien' in the sense of being a foreigner who speaks a different form of language, rather than being from a different planet?

That's a good start EM, lots of positives there!

No news on jobs, I've just applied for one in a school, although its some distance to travel, so may not be affordable. My JSA runs out soon, so money is going to be even tighter.

More so mary, more so. Aspie I understand. Neurotypical are just sooo confusing

Ds has settled lovely into school and whilst i am having trouble with disruption to routine and change he isnt expecting he has apparantly charmed the entire class and my mum reports that most parents have heard of him and his teacher reports he is interacting well. Although apparantly he still refuses to read to anyone other then me but did get a sticker for his maths It was base line assessments today so they can ability group the class for core activites. I am very pleased that he is doing so well but am having to be brave and step away and leave him to implement all the skills i have spent the last 2 1/2years teaching him. He is now in the big world on his own and i am nervous. What will be will be. I need to know what he can cope with and how much he can cope. <starts to bite finger nails> It will be fine and breathe

Mary, how are you doing? are things showing signs of moving in the right direction?

Don't worry about me, I'm having a tough time at the moment - am glad you came back!

Most people who know me wouldn't think I have AS either. The JWs who came to the door today were surprised also (that's how to shut them up, change the subject to one they're not expecting! )

Aspies read what is said, we're not very good at reading between the lines, causes problems all the time!

If I can help you figure it out, I will. To be honest, you neurotypicals are just as bewildering to us, if not more so!

Hi, I've not been able to come back as RL got very busy and I didn't want to dash off a quick message without giving it some thought as that's what i did a few days back and I managed to offend MaryBS and perhaps others. Firstly I'd like to apologise to Mary. I didnt mean to offend her.
I didn't mean any of it maliciously though admittedly I have built up a lot of resentment towards my DH over these past 7 years as he's discounted my feelings, poo-pooed my opinion, ignored me when I'm upset and ranted at me when I'm anxious, so there may in fact be some anger coming through on my posts, but it's all directed at him and not others with AS.
I am coming to understand slowly why he's acted like this so i feel less angry and resentful now, but it's still hard to shake off all those emotions.
I also don't think i meant it as bad as it sounded. It Is a relatively unknown condition i think, just having tried to discuss it with my fieneds and being met with blank stares has made me realise that.
I called it bizarre and weird, but that isn't necessarily an insult- I know my illness makes me a bit bizarre (PTSD), but i'm happy with that. It seems bizarre to me as it's just so HIDDEN. Noone who meets my DH would believe he was on the autistic spectrum; it's only when you get close to him that these traits of his become apparent. And as I never knew it existed before last month I do find it fascinating and indeed strange.
I love my husband so much of it is also said with affection; he certainly tells me that I'm strange on a regular basis! I think we were attracted to each other as we're so damn different, and we couldn't figure each other out (still can't).
I guess I should have said I FELT like I was living with an alien and noone knows it rather that I AM living with an alien and noone knows it. It feels this way as noone but me knows about the AS and how DIFFERNET my DH is; they assume he's NT and would be shocked to discover otherwise. I'm the only one who knows. Also I probably had the book "Loving Mr. Spock" in mind when i made that off the cuff (and apparently hurtful) remark as I'd just been told about it that day (it's a book about AS marriages)
So very sorry my rant upset people. I love my Dh and do want to figure this out

Am currently unemployed, have been since end of March, so JSA about to run out .

As for parties, DS doesn't get invited to many . When he was younger I used to stay. The last party he went to, he freaked out because they tried to give him a sticker with his name on, and he is scared of stickers on him (in books, its OK). He hid under a table for nearly 20 mins before I could coax him out. Its difficult to prepare if you don't know what they are going to do at the party - will there be games, dancing, a magician etc? If games, you could perhaps play some of them beforehand - pass the parcel for instance. That may help

Drop's ninjarain's coat at door. This is my most used name. I have many coats.

Ds starting school has gone well this week. Things have to happen in the same order though which has meant some juggling when i have finished my lessons early and would have arrived home at the wrong time. But minor problem. I picked him up from school on friday as i needed to drop some forms off but that threw him and there was some interesting language and minor tempers as a result. Might try it again if opportunity arrives in a couple of weeks. He'd like me to but its really hard for him.

Melatonin has made a huge difference, unbelievable difference, to his ability to cope. This is having a knock on such that i can now get sleep so i am coping better. Plus i have now been skating twice in the last month and planning to do fairly reguarly (tis my balancing activity) which has balanced my mood. Appart from them messing up my photo form which put me into a bit of a spin, uni has been good. one Aspie error but the past is the past and i need to move forwards and deal with it as is.

Am not feeling the need to hide. but the comfrey cushion is inviting and i'm tired in a good way. A day in fresh air with the boy.

How do you deal with little people and birthday parties. Ds has been invited to one next week and then the weekend two week hence. Is there anything i can do to prepare him? or me i suspect i might be expected to stay but have no idea to be honest. Parties is like a whole difference universe to me <pulls blanket over head and pretends parties dont exist>

Shame about the job Mary, it sounded just right for you. Are you working at the moment? How are the DC's?

How's everyone else coping with school? siblingrivalry? NinjaRain?

Thanks all. I never even got an interview for the job, and all the feedback they bothered to give me was "there was a high standard of applicants". Which is shite minimalist to say the least!

AvadaKedavra - I read your thread with interest and I have to say your DH sounds as if he has a lot of Aspie traits.

I've been through a similar revelation with my DH thanks to this thread, although he has less Aspie traits than others on here. For me, and for our relationship, it has been a positive thing. I now have an explanation for his lack of empathy and (seemingly) selfish behaviour, where as before I thought he just hated me

Hope you can come to terms with your situation and get something positive from it.
Feel free to join us

Mary - sorry you were hurt by Mrs Asp's comments, they were about her DH and weren't meant to be hurtful to you.

Having AS and having a partner with AS are two very different (opposing) experiences, and I think it's very hard for one to understand the other, which is apparant from all the relationship problems it's causing for people on here.

Men and women are very different anyway, and AS affects men and women differently. If you've been hurt in RL, comments like this must be upsetting for you, although they obviously weren't meant to be.

Sorry I'm not nearer Ely. Any news on that job?

I understood MrsAsp calling it "unknown" and "bizarre" to mean that, despite the increasing amount of awareness about ASD, it still mostly is unknown by the general public, and that by "bizarre", she meant confusing rather than something derogatory.

The alien comment, although possibly meant in humour, was out of order though.

I guess I can either walk away hurt, or I can say something . I don't think you meant to cause offence MrsAsp, but I do need to say something.

Asperger's isn't an unknown or bizarre condition, although it is much misunderstood, as are people who have Asperger's. I don't think I'm weird, but I do know there are people who think I'm weird, and quite frankly it hurts . I'm not an alien either

I realise you're talking about your DH, and you're not talking about me, but I am well aware of how people have regarded me and treated me in the past, and have said hurtful things either TO me or ABOUT me.

Perhaps I'm being oversensitive, perhaps someone could tell me if I am. It wouldn't be the first time. But even if I am oversensitive, the pain I feel in real life is real

Hi Mrs Asp - got your message. Haven't had a chance to catch up on the thread for a while (RL got in the way as always) - but you obviously really tapped into something with your first post! Will be interested to read it all.

Things here are pretty much stalled. We went to Relate but I can't really see that it will help when I think dh won't be able to relate (sorry couldn't think of another word - no pun intended!) to it and when we won't be addressing what I think is a major factor in our relationship - ie his unaknowledged AS. In fact after the initial session we ended up having a huge row about it as he felt got at So it's a bit ho hum at the mo but as I'm back at work from next week i've sort of been concentrating on things like childcare rather than our problems.

I'm in Worthing by the way and don't get up to London much - apart from for work. Do let me know if you plan a meet though - who knows what I can swing (although I've only managed one evening out in Worthing in the 10 months since dd was born!)

Would still be interested to know if any others are in London as I found chatting face to face with others who have experience of an AS partner SO therapeutic.
Or maybe even if you're not in London let me know if you fancy a meet up/support group type thing and we'll see if it's possible

Hi everyone. I'm so glad so many people are gathering on this thread and using it to help make sense of AS. Even if I have "backed off" a bit myself.
Things have progressed somewhat with me and DH. We're seeing a different councellor, one who specialises in problems in marriages of an AS and a non AS- Yippee!!! I so hope she can be of help-it does seem so so far, so fingers crossed.
I've also met another woman IN PERSON who has an AS dh- Yippee again! SO good to talk to someone who understands. I have good close female friends, but frankly they really wouldn't understand as it's such an unknown and bizarre condition, and DH just seems so normal to them.
Which is why I asked if anyone's in London as I'd LOVE to meet up.
It feels like I'm going mad living in this weird world- I've married an alien and no one else knows it but me!!!
We have had some blazng rows of course (we always do) , but less so than before I started this thread.
For example I suggested something to him the other day just as he left for work, and he went off on one, telling me what a ridiculous idea it was and how daft I was, being very abusive and insulting. I immediately realised it was his AS, and said "Oh never mind; you're just being all weird; I won't bother discussing it with you" which admittedly was said with some anger, but at least the conversation stopped there and I didn't go on and on at him trying to make him see sense. I just realised he'd never see sense, so I closed the door and went about my business. I heard him yell "I'm not being weird!", but at least it didn't snowball into a huge row.

I'm near Ely, Cambs.

Hi, sorry to butt in, I wonder if any of you may be able to take a look at my thread here please and tell me what you think?

my thread

Thanks in advance

Hi Mrs Asp

It would be great to meet up although I'm in Yorkshire, maybe if others are interested we could find somewhere central to all of us?

Thank you for starting this thread but then you withdrew, so how are things going for you and DH?

CFCM x

Hi Everyone!
Was just wondering if any of you are in London? I've been feeling like it might be quite therapeutic to meet and talk with people who are going through similar stuff with AS partners; also great to talk to those with As who can offer such a great insight into our partner's minds. No pressure of course; just wondered if anyone else felt the same way and would be in favour of a possible meet up? Should probably involve wine!!!

How is everyone? How have all the changes gone, starting school, etc?

thinking of you
x

Have a virtual hug. We all have places where we retreat from the world - there's no shame in that

<pulls up a comfey bean bag and hides from the rest of the world>
Shhh its safe in here

Well it IS a double whammy really. I have similar issues going on, trying to balance my son's ASC needs with my own. If he is in meltdown and I am close to meltdown, it is best we withdraw and take care of ourselves together. But sometimes that isn't possible, and it can be incredibly stressful, more so than if it is just DS on his own.

Am interesting point has been raised to me by explaining life normally in that ds is actually coping far better then I would normally expect him to. Is it the fact that I have a lot of change and I cant cope with it which is affecting my ability to handle the situation -despite the fact it is significantly improved

Quoting this:
"Actually conisdering he would normally be coping by OCD handwashing and severe violence we are doing really well. Mostly shouting, bit of rudeness and subnormal /uncomfortable behaviour but nothing violent and no OCD stuff at mo."

Any ideas?

For us, it helped that big sister was already going to school. Plus there is a nice picture book about starting school. It may be that he's past all that though. You may just have to "go for it" on the day, and accept there will be tantrums.

DS cried outside in the rain for 20 minutes the first time I took him to beavers (and he hates getting his hair wet). I had to drag him inside and let him scream the place down, and block the door - until the sight of other children doing things he wanted to - building stuff, brought him round and he started joining in.

Yes but i think my main question is What do you do when the social stories seem to be the trigger point? As long as his mind is busy a the mo he is ok but the minute he thinks about it hell breaks loose. Eg I went to get my eyes checked to day and he howled on the doorstep for 20mins. It took that long for his aunt to convince him to make her a coffee (something he loves to do) or anything.
I think half the problem is that the change is stressing me and he is picking up on my stress.

What sort of pictures and symbols do you use? As this might help. Hopefully the routine of school will settle him, though i am worried about how split teaching is going to effect him... Ho hum. life.

Thank you for advice.

Ninja, I'm not posting on SN at the moment, but I second the advice about social stories. We have a few on the go!

Change is an area I am also struggling with -dd is also very resistant to change. We have a visual timetable, which helps her a lot as it gives her the chance to organise her day in her mind. I have some sheets of symbols on a 'Word' document, if you want me to send them to you. Just let me know and I will give you my email address

Mary, I agree that there is a need in the area you mention. As I am trying to type this post, dd is hovering asking what we are doing first today (haven't done today's timetable yet!) and dh is verbally going through today's plans, over and over and asking me if he has it right. Case in point, I think!
Oh, and dd2 is kicking off upstairs because she doesn't want to get dressed. Her screaming is setting off dd1 -I had better go!
Have a good day, everyone x

I am CONVINCED there is a need for support where both parent and child are on the autistic spectrum. Its a nightmare sometimes!

Glad I can help.

Ninja, have posted on that other thread.

Sorry you might not have realise I am DidEinsteins normally. I am hiding out at the mo.

Can i come hide out here the week of the 7th too. Ds starts school (he is completey meltdowing about all the change at mo already) and I start back at uni... help. I am beginning to think i was being to optomistic about both ds' and my coping skills.

If anyone can help with change coping strateiges could you come help here thank you.

Yeah, I think I was remarkably restrained in my choice of words, Amber
This time next week I will be a gibbering wreck, as dd1 will be starting school on the 7th. I am going to stockpile chocolate, ready for the comfort-eating I know I will be doing!

Interesting is one word for it, yes. I can think of a couple of others

Hi All. How is everyone doing?

I would also like to thank Mary and Amber for sharing their stories and giving us a valuable insight into our partners' minds. I had to laugh at the part about the socks. My dh looks like he is sucking on a lemon if I ask him if I can nick a pair of his socks -now it makes sense!

He is actually trying really hard at the moment. He has been listening when I tell him why I find elements of his behaviour unacceptable. For example, he didn't want me to buy a piece of furniture I liked and he became quite 'shouty' and passive- aggressive.

When I later explained why that wasn't appropriate and how it made me feel, he listened. I then explained that there was a big imbalance in our relationship re: spending money on ourselves (he buys himself a lot of stuff). I had to kind of spell out why this was unfair and how it made me feel, but it ended in him apologising and saying he should have just agreed to buy the furniture, because I really liked it.

It was gone when we went back for it, but never mind!

He is really about to be out to the test, though. DD1 (AS) has been home edded and at her request is going to school next week. However, it is impacting badly on her and her behaviour is declining rapidly. DH struggles to cope with her this, so should be interesting.

Hey took your advice and balanced my spoons a bit. life is better. Now i have to try not to get addicted again.

Dont worry its a fairly safe addiction: ice-skating.

Why cant i have a hobby and not get obsessed?
Cheers.

I suspect many of us are 'error/unexplained event-spotting' experts. I know that if there's something I don't understand, my brain will keep remembering it until I solve it. Other people can, I think, just forget stuff or override it because of all the social needs to get along with each other. I wonder if there's something in the incidents he's remembering that he simply didn't understand, which is why he keeps misunderstanding your motives for crashing out asleep? Either way, it's annoying for you and he has to learn to ask good questions to solve problems rather than just get upset time after time with people. That's just negative behaviour and we can learn not to do it (er, unless in a panic, in which case we can only panic until we stop panicking).

Its not that we bear grudges, its because its an unresolved problem. If a problem is resolved, then it can be got rid of from our brain, or compartmentalised. If its unresolved, it bounces around in there, resurfacing every now and again.

This is good with work problems, I remember solving a problem that had everyone stumped for 2 years, as it was intermittent (I worked on an IT helpdesk). By accident one day I recreated it, and found if I pressed an exact sequence of keystrokes (took a while to trace back my steps!), I could get the same thing to happen - it wasn't what the customer had told me they had done, but when I relayed it back to them, they said "that's it", and it finally got fixed after all that time. It had stayed in my brain as unresolved, so I never quite forgot it needed solving.

But we are fanatical about problem solving.

I can only assume there is something about what you did which he still hasn't managed to grasp and understand, and hence why it won't go away. If you can find an element of his behaviour which is similar to how you were, and say "its just like when you did this", he might understand a bit better?

Mary and Amber - thanks for the explanations of compliments, apologies and possessions, it's really helpful in understanding DH.

Is bearing grudges an Aspie thing? or is it peculiar to DH as he's very good at, he still goes on about things I "did wrong" years ago that he can't seem to move on from. (Like falling asleep on the DCs beds out of sheer exhaustion night after night after looking after them pretty much single handed all day ) To be fair though, I have a few grudges of my own - perhaps it's just a symptom of a bad relationship.

Loved the Spoon Theory!

Thank you Mary that spoons theory really explained exactly what is like. I think yesterday that half my spoons were wiped out by the fact that i had to get a photo done, a quater by the fact that the machine was broken and it couldn't be done and the remaining by the fact that ds wasnt coping yesterday. Hence the feeling of diaster. I am still feeling drained today but i am overwhelmed at the mo and hiding under a new name today. Maybe I should start looking at it like a bucket full of spoons. This next year is going to be really tuff and take me way out of my comfort zone as i am doing a PGCE so that might keep me on track and stop me from completely destroying myself.

Right off to see if i can convince ds to put clothes on. Melatonin is making him a bit off at the mo. Its like walking on broken glass and trying not to cut your feet.

DidEinsteins

xposted with Amber!

I can totally relate to that, but there are so many other variables to factor in too. Lack of sleep is a biggy. Hormones is another biggy (I had started to feel practically suicidal just before my periods, and have just had a mirena fitted - has made a HUGE difference to my mood swings!). If things start to stack up, if things go wrong one after another, and you don't get time to recover between. Little things which upset the balance - being late for an appointment, children drinking all the milk, little niggles all affect how you feel.

I think Amber has mentioned this before, an article called Spoon Theory? I recommend you read this (it actually refers to someone with Lupus), because it can apply to us too, although the triggers are slightly different. Effectively you start the day with a fixed number of spoons. Every time something goes wrong, you give up at least one spoon. Major catastrophes can lead to losing all of your spoons at once. If you have no spoons you can't go on unless you regain some, either by resting or borrowing some from the next day (in which case you have less for the next day). Here's the full article:

spoon theory

I do that all the time - takes me ages to work out what sort of hell of things I've been dealing, with one at a time, all of which build up unnoticed to crisis point. Or it can just be one unexpected thing when I'm not well. I think if you've spent years and years being told you're "carp" (as you put it) and had the violence and abuse and everything else, confidence in our own ability to handle social things can be so very difficult.

It's maybe like one of those "house of cards" things (you know, where they build a big pyramid of playing cards all balanced precariously on each other) where the whole thing just collapses from under us and we have to keep rebuilding it day after day.

Ok, i have a question. Why can i cope with normal life reasonably ok most of the time and them suddenly feel like a mixture of the rug being pulled out from under my feet and/or the whole world imploding? Is it that i am not actually coping and it is building up and blows up in complete meltdown of self confidence in abiltiy to interact or that i am actually not doing that great in interactions and i only notice it when it gets really bad? Or what? because today i wanted to change my name and hide simply because i thought i was upseting everyone and no one liked me because i was carp at understanding emotional and social cues.

And is this just me? can anyone else relate to this?

Possessions thing and Asperger syndrome - quick explanation:

The standard brain has a handy ultra-fast 'broadband' bit for thinking about people. "Who am I looking at, what are their moods, what do they like, what's different about them today, who do they like, what did we last talk about, what's their body language saying right now? Do I love this person, am I their best friend, are we acquaintances, are we enemies?"

And it can do it for a whole group of people at once, which is just amazing

Ours uses that bit to store info on our things and hobbies. All the wiring for "I care what happens to this person" is used as "i care what happens to this thing" instead.

And the people info is bunged into bits all over the place.

It doesn't mean we don't care about people. It means we have to learn to care much more 'manually' and slowly because it takes us ages to go find all the info to work it all out.

Whereas if someone bends our books or rips our maps or manhandles our toothbrush, our whole brain is wired to react as if they've just slapped our mothers in front of us.

The reactions are very different for that reason. It's not deliberate by us. We can learn to change it, but it takes time

People can misunderstand this as "people with Asperger syndrome can't tell the difference between a person and a lump of rock", but that's absolutely not true. We certainly can and do. But more slowly than you can.

Oops, cross-posted!

I also have a limited emotion-interpretation range. For example if someone is irritated, and I pick up on it, then I can interpret it as anger or even hate. It makes me really anxious, and brings on one of 2 emotions in me - anger or tears. Anger if I can't help myself or if I really don't care what the other person thinks of me. I think Aspie men are more prone to anger though - its like an involuntary respopnse, and can be over in a flash.

Yes, compliments, apologies, etc I've learned to do, and I consciously think in most situations should I compliment? should I apologise?

I had a bad week last week, and a woman upset me. I realise I may have been brusque back. She was nice to me this morning, and I apologised if I gave offence, that I was oversensitive last week, and didn't mean to offend. This seemed to go down well, and as this lady is trying to help my son with his social skills, it was worth making an effort.

BUT if I don't think someone's hair looks nice, I won't say it does. I might not notice, and I might not think to compliment, but if I DO notice and if I DO think it looks nice, I'll say so - but its a conscious thought and both things HAVE to be true for me to do it.

And apologies, I won't apologise unless I'm really sorry. If I'm forced to apologise, I will word it in such a way so that it is true. For example "I am sorry I upset you". I don't like upsetting people so that will probably be true. But that doesn't mean I am sorry for what I did . Again, its a conscious thing though, and I truly believe women Aspies do it better than men.

I have a friend who supervises voluntary work I do, that I'm convinced is a male Aspie. He rarely compliments, but I know if I've got something wrong because he tells me. If he doesn't say anything, I take it as a compliment. Occasionally he really upsets me because he says something stupid and crass, but once i've calmed down, I know not to take it personally. I've started to tell him when he has done something to offend - and that works really well. He doesn't say anything, but he takes it on board. Most of the time we have a good laugh, because our sense of humour is so similar!

Hi Mary! Thanks for the explanations. I understand about the sudoku puzzle - I would have been mad too! DH also says that he prefers things to people as people are unpredictable. He always gets cross with me when I get upset, which thinking about it makes sense now as I am behaving unpredictably, but up until now I thought he was just being really mean.

thank you for sharing your insights!

I asked DH last night why he hardly gives me any compliments, appreciation, praise (he was in a good mood otherwise this would have provoked him into a rage) and he said that he thought that when we got married (10 years ago) that that was a public display of his love for me and wasn't that enough He also said that he found it hard to say nice things to me, as it took him out of his comfort zone.

I think apologising must also take him out of his comfort zone, as he never apologises for any of the mean things he says or does. But I must say that this thread is making me see him in a whole new light though which is good

I got really mad at DS when he wrote lots of numbers in the sudoku puzzle I was halfway through. It was ruined, there might be other sudoku puzzles, but I wanted to complete THAT one . I apologised afterwards, and I DID reign in most of my temper, but it overflowed a bit - total over-reaction to something that is just a piece of paper

Its a comfort thing. People are unpredictable, and can let you down or feel uncomfortable/angry/anxious. I can't think of too many objects I am "precious" about, but if I were, it would because I like them, I know every detail of them, and they make me feel good.

I feel almost a sense of bereavement when a favourite item of clothing wears out . Its a favourite because it feels nice, I like how I feel when I'm wearing it, and if anything happens to it, often it can't be replaced - I guess that is the same for objects?

DHs possessions are very important to him, more so than people it seems sometimes. He has had major meltdowns in the past when something of his has got accidently damaged by the DCs when they were younger, when he would smash the said item up.

I didn't realise that this was Aspergeresque behaviour. This thread is proving a right eye-opener . I still can't quite understand the importance of possessions, I don't know if anyone can enlighten me? I can understand not wanting to wear the socks again, and I can sort of understand the toothbrush thing...

TBH I don't think DP has an explanation for his behaviour either, maybe because to him, like you, it his is coping mechanism and that's all it is, nothing out of the ordinary IYSWIM? When I bring such things to his attention he just goes quiet and changes the subject, they never get addressed. Maybe that's because he doesn't actually understand or know what to say himself. Sorry for waffling, am thinking as I type . This thread is really helpful.

For me I had no explanation, it was burn socks as way to cope or self destruct. The only reason i grasped the issue is because it is something ds does and because i spend why whole time watching for his tiny cues of meltdown and thus dealing with it, it helped me think ds would do that, hmmm. But it took time for me to calm down first and my meltdown was a proper full on meltdown. The first major one i have ever had so that was a bit of a shock.

Your comment about the socks DidEinsteinsMum sounds familiar to me. My DP and I both have an electric toothbrush, identical ones. The battery/handle on mine packed up so I started switching the head and using his. After a couple of days I noticed it was missing, I couldn't find it anywhere. I rang him to ask him where it was and he admitted that he had hidden it amongst the sweaters in his wardrobe. I was flaberghasted! And I admit upset that he had gone to such lengths to stop me from using his toothbrush handle. I took it very personally. I understand now though why he did it, even though he has refused to give me an explanation, choosing just to ignore his 'odd' behaviour. Needless to say I now have a new toothbrush of my own

Sorry to wander back to the fold abruptly but have kinda been lurking and saw the car park panic and thought you might like my car park panic.
Late for hospital appointment as car park full, 1 hour of looking for a space. I actually lost the ability to park. Couldnt get the car into gear for love nor money. Having had my gears fail a few weeks back Ds shouted very loudly that mummy's car was broken and that it had lost its gears. Someone was leaving a little further ahead and the car was pushed into the space (badly). After returning to car from appointment (they held it for us) it turned out it was me not coping rather then the car being broken Boy was i glad for ds offering an explaination to the irrate people behind.

If i am thrown everything throws me. I have burnt a pair of socks that were borrowed without prior request. Just couldnt cope with idea of them coming into contact with me even if they had been washed. When it is good it is ok but when something goes wrong it is a diaster.

As for parking, i can't park forwards, i have to reverse park and it has to be parallel to the lines. I like to be early for appointments and shopping is often done late night as it is quieter. I counter sensory overload with specific one sense overload. I cant drive without music else i panic and it has to be a particular type of music else i worry and fret and make stupid mistakes. But i have always had to cope like that due to the circumstances i grew up in. In my childhood environment it was never quiet, lots of chaos and buziness and overloads. Focusing on a specific allowed zoning out of background.

I carry an autism card too. I've never had to use it, but I've temporarily lost the ability to talk coherently on occasions. Usually when one thing has gone wrong after another, and I've got important deadlines to meet (like job apps ). I too suffer from endless anxiety. Must be a female Aspie thing...

How is everyone today?

I can identify with the parking-panic and the "oh heck it's really busy!" panic. For me, it's all a sensory balancing-act equivalent to the skill and danger of tightrope-walking or mountaineering.

Whilst other people can bound from one parking-squeeze and busy-shopping-centre to another without much of a thought, I live in absolute dread of someone beeping a car horn at me (for example) or shouting at me, because my hearing is sensitive enough that it's like being next to an unexpected foghorn.

With a busy shopping centre, it is like being in the front row of a rock concert right next to the speakers and the strobe lights, with anyone jostling me feeling like the pain level from being hit. Absolutely overwhelming. Can't hear against it, can't think what to get or not get in the shop...I have to plan it like a military campaign or else I've actually collapsed at the tills through the exhaustion.

I think that's why we can get very panicky, which in men maybe seems like endless negativity. For us, it really is like going to the dentists rather than something enjoyable, unless we can anticipate and plan and cope.

With parking, I'll park somewhere quieter if I can. And with shopping, I'll go when it's quieter and always carry my autism card with me in case I need it to explain to people.

It's a bit of both, I think. In the case of dd, the hope is that if we help her to challenge it herself initially, she will learn to do it for herself.
It's about getting her to recognise why she sees things in a negative light, then working on seeing that there is an alternative way to think -and that it feels much better to be positive and optimistic ie less stressful. We are using this workbook to help her. I think the title is horrible, but never mind!

With dh, I am expecting to have to do the same initially. I am going to buy this in the hope that dh will read it -again, a horrible title!

The psyc told us that in order to change the behaviour, the thinking needs to change first (hence the cognitive/behaviour treatment).

I think the first step has to be an awareness that there is negativity/pessimism present and how it impacts on the individual and those around him.
DH genuinely seems unaware of the things he says eg his first words whenever we go somewhere tend to be either: "We will never get parked here" or "It's looks busy here, is this a good idea?"
It's as though he's defeated before we even start.

Ideally I would say the AS person should, I know if I am feeling negative, then if someone criticises me for it, I sink further into the mire, I don't snap out of it. However I do respond to logical and or positive thinking "you are not a crap mum, you do x, y and z for your children", that sort of thing

Hi Sibling Thanks for the insight into the negative thinking. May I ask what is the treatment-is it the AS person has to challenge the negative thinking , or is it that we have to challenge it in them?

Its just been a bad week. Thank you all for your support. I can usually spot which of DS's behaviour is AS and which isn't, but that's mainly because I know what it is like.

Timeforme, I could have written your last post!

Mary, I also snapped at dd2 today and felt dreadful afterwards. The summer holidays are a particularly fraught time -if we asked on here, I bet there would be hundreds of mums who had 'lost it' on more than one occassion.

Please don't think that this makes you a bad person -it makes you a mum!
x

I think Mary, it is sometimes difficult to separate the AS from what is actually normal. I often question whether I am too ready to put my DP's behaviour down to AS rather than realise he is just being a 'normal' man!

I don't think you are a crap mum at all. If you are then I think the majority of us are! I too hate play dates, coffee mornings, playgroups and toddler groups etc. When I have forced myself to do any of those things I have found myself becoming stressed and narky. I think that's where DP and I compliment each other

Don't be so hard on yourself and stop trying to be someone you think you should be. I have never met you but I do know from your posts on here that you are a lovely person and someone who I would be pleased to know in real life xx

Thanks for your kind words, they are making me cry. Son had a meltdown this morning over breakfast (breakfast time is such a battle at the moment). I then had a meltdown too, shouting at him, almost screaming at him, poor daughter caught in the middle. Then shutting myself in a room to calm down before I said something I regretted. He has gone to holiday club, so I am getting a bit of peace at the moment. Just another example of why I am a crap mum though.

Mary, please don't be too hard on yourself. I don't have AS and I am really crap at playdates -I get really stressed by the whole experience. I have also found myself thinking I am not a good parent, because I'm not always as patient as I want to be.

I think all parents, AS or not, go through self-doubt. We all have achille's heels and things we don't like about ourselves; I think we wouldn't be human otherwise.
I think you are an inspiration, because you have worked so hard to deal with your AS and have overcome so much.

Your posts provide me with a much appreciated look into my dd's mind and you give me great hope that she can learn to cope in the way you have. You are really insightful and your daughter is lucky to have you.

Its night-time, so I'll keep this brief - girls DO copy social skills. Daydreaming, for me is "safe" because it allows me to think about what I would like to be doing, rather than what I am doing - less stressful and requires less concentration. I can "forget to listen" in that situation. I've also learned empathy, to the extent I've been told that I empathise better than others because I am automatically looking at how I can be considerate. But that comes with experience.

On the other hand, DD exhibits some AS traits, but then she is around me a lot of the time, so she will copy my behaviour. She has no sensory issues, and as far as I can tell, is OK with making friends (although not brilliant, probably because I am so crap at playdates)

At the moment I'm fighting the feeling I should never have been a parent in the first place, but only because yesterday I had a minor run in with "the soccer mums" , and of course, finding playdates, both the inviting and the actual, very stressful.

Hi. My dd is 8.8 and was diagnosed this year.
Funnily enough, she is a daydreamer and has poor concentration. She has always had huge sensory issues and struggled with change from a very young age.
It took a while for her dx to be completed, because a lot of 'professionals' were thrown by her apparent social skills and it took a lot of surface scratching before they realised that they were learned and copied skills.

How old is your dd?

My DH is also very negative/pessimistic/cynical - I didn't know that was linked to AS. I agree that it's really hard to live with, it can really drag you down can't it.

siblingrivalry - how old is your DD and when was she diagnosed? it sounds like you're getting some good support for her. Hard work having two to support though.

My DD's personality is very similar to DH's - complete lack of empathy, can be rude and aggressive, but she can also be nice sometimes, she has the same capacity for absorbing encyclopaedic knowledge as him. I've thought that she shows a lot of ADHD traits (complete daydreamer, impossible to get her attention, lack of concentration/motivation) but never thought about AS?

Oh, mrsasp, I'm sorry you are having a crap day. I can totally empathise with how you feel, I am like that off and on at the moment.
It's draining and it can seem like there is no way forward, just going round in circles.
I'm afraid I don't have any advice, but I am here if you need to talk.

DD1 has AS and her main issues are with severe anxiety/depression and it started to completely rule her life. At CAMHS, the psyc told us that because people with AS are more anxious and prone to worrying and depression, they often become enmeshed in negative thinking and pessimism. I know this isn't the case for everyone with AS, but it definitely applies to dd and dh. I tell dh that if he won the lottery, he would find a negative eg the jackpot was higher the previous week!

So the 'treatment' if you like is to challenge the negative thoughts, which will hopefully have the knock-on effect of changing the behaviour. This is done using CBT and we are starting a programme of this with dd.

The psyc inadvertently hit on something with dh. He chose a felt pen from a box and explained that if she was offered the pen, dd's first thoughts might be that it could run out/get broken/lost etc. DH admitted that his first thought was that he would rather have a different colour because the one offered wasn't a colour he liked and he couldn't write properly with it.

I have to admit that dh's negativity really brings me down and I sometimes find myself becoming pessimistic, via osmosis, so I have to battle to stey positive.

What is this about "negative thinking" SiblingRiv? Is it part of the AS condition. I'm interested as DH thinks negatively about EVERYTHING. We are hardly ever able to arrcnge to go out or do anything as everything's crap. When I give him the option to choose he stll can't think of anything he wants to do- the whole world is crap from his point of view it seems.
I just got finished with a huge outburst of crying and am sitting here all soggy. Just fed up and want to live with someone I can connect with emotionally. I seiously connect with strangers better than DH just in small chance encounters buying a bloody paper in the newsagents or something! It's ridiculous and horribly sad.

I am really impressed with your DH. I find the uncertainty of doing things like getting a Drs appointment for something important like this really really stressful, and its easy to give up if you're not committed to doing so. And I am glad he is keeping you "in the loop".

If its any comfort, I find it hard to support my son when his fears are similar to mine. You would not believe how stressed and anxious I get trying to arrange play dates for him! I hate it, and feel like a really bad mum!

I had an incident yesterday at a church lunch, where DS got upset because I had soup and the smell was bothering him. I hadn't started on the soup, so gave it to DD, sitting further away. People were telling me that I shouldn't/didn't have to do that. What they failed to realise was how distressing it was for my son to smell something he didn't like - he, like me is supersensitive to smell. And I could hardly explain why in front of him. What am I SUPPOSED to do??? Argh!

Still working on this job app...

Hiya. I'm okay thanks -how are you?
DH still chasing the elusive GP appointment. I think we need to find a new surgery;it's ridiculous how long you have to wait. He just texted me to tell me he's tried again this morning -I'm actually pleasantly surprised he's persevering.

We had a meeting at CAMHS about dd1 yesterday (AS) and it had the added of bonus of giving dh food for thought. The psyc was talking about negative thinking and anxiety-driven behaviour and dh saw a lot of himself in the things we discussed. We were given techniques to use with dd1 and I suggested dh gets involved in them and he agreed. Also a first!

The only thing is, I am finding it exhausting dealing with the therapy for 2 people with AS. They both need a lot of support and encouragement and I have to keep a diary for dd1's psyc as well as doing OT with her. Of course, I will help her to the best of my ability (she's my baby!) -but when dh's need for help is added I am a bit overwhelmed.

How is everyone else today? x

Mary - that sounds ideal, best of luck with it x

How's everyone else - siblingrivalry? MrsAsp? Anyone?

I'm on holiday at the moment so I can't contribute much, but I hope this thread continues as it's been really helpful so far...

I intend to order one of the books about relationships recommended when I get back and I've read mixed reviews on Amazon - anyone got a favourite?

No, done nothing like it, I was only diagnosed last September. But have contributed to guidelines on helping people with Autism/Aspergers, and have spoken at 2 conferences about having Asperger's - one in more depth than the other. I've also experienced autism services in the county firsthand - and have lots to say on my experiences there. The job spec asks for experience on working with Aspergers/Autism - but in particular, it encourages you to apply if you HAVE Aspergers/Autism.

siblingrivalry - glad you're DH is showing an interest in counselling at last - and he adores you!

Mary - the job sounds ideal - good luck with it! have you done that sort of work before?

Definitely! The only way it could be improved is if it were term-time only, although I have to admit I am struggling to look after the children during this summer break (in the past I've been working and my mum had them).

Oh, that sounds perfect for you -are you going to go for it?

I can understand you're being cautious, but that sounds pretty positive! I especially love the bit about how he adores you!

I'm quite excited, I've seen a job to apply for, might ask you ladies for a reference!

Its for a development worker for Adults with an ASD, part time, within travelling distance from my home!

Hi Mary.
Thanks so much for asking. I didn't come back again last night because I seem to be dominating the thread at the moment

Well, standing my ground re the counselling might be making a difference. DH texted me to say that he is trying to get an appointment with his GP (like gold dust at our surgery, so he hasn't had any joy yet). Then he said that he has been finding out about counsellors in the area -prices/locality etc.

I was very surprised, but told him I was really happy that he was doing it by himself. However, I can't rest on my laurels, because he is quite liable to do the groundwork then sit back. This has happened before -he thinks that making the initial gesture is enough.

I'm not being deliberately negative, just cautious. But I am delighted that he is making an attempt to rectify things. He told me last night that he adores me (!) and that me and the dds are everything to him. This is unheard of. . he usually says "You know how I feel."

I do love him and he has some good qualities, but the only way to make a future together is for him to accept the affect his behaviour has on me.

His AS behaviour was never more apparent than when I told him yesterday that I was thinking of going out with my friends for a meal one evening this week. There are no firm plans yet, so I couldn't tell him any more than that -which sent him into a spin.

I could see him trying to restrain himself, but he couldn't. He asked :"Which night/ who with /where are you going/what time?" he likes me to go out, but I have to submit an itinerary (sp?) first

How is everyone else today? x

siblingrivalry, how are things today?

siblingrivalry, you acknowledging that you are out of ways to cope is NOT I repeat NOT in any way shape or form the same as you 'breaking up the family'. It's his refusal to look at his own behaviour and get the right help and assistance to make a difference that is breaking up the family. All you are doing is acknowledging that.

The children need parents who are able to get from one end of the day to the next without total exhaustion. You are doing your best for them by considering all options that might bring them some peace.

I remain very sad that your partner is refusing to accept that their own behaviours may be a problem here. ASC is a challenge, but goodness me all of us with an ASC have to learn to care for those around us, and a big part of that is saying sorry and giving them space to 'be'.

He needs to man up, as ds would say.

Sorry cros posted. Sorry to hear things are so bad

I would definitely agree that going to counselling on your own is very helpful if your dh won't go with you. In some ways it might even be more helpful in the first instance, because, as Chief says, you get to release all your anger and frustration, but you don't have to tread on tiptoe around your dh, which is what you spend your whole life doing anyway. Hope you are feeling a bit better today too.

Chief, I have yet again 'filled up' when I read your post -I'm so touched that you have asked how things are, thank you. And thanks for sharing your story -the low self-esteem rings loud bells!

I'm afraid things are much worse today. He refused to go to Relate and again said that everything was fine and any problems were caused by me giving him too much stress. He was very arrogant and sarcastic and when I broke down and cried he just sat there, totally removed from it all. He just keeps sweeping it under the carpet.

So I said I wanted him to leave, because I was at the end of my tether. Of course, he refused and used the dc to try to mainpulate me, saying "So you would break up the family and destroy the kids' lives, just like that?" and "Maybe you should be thinking about other people, rather than yourself". I am too numb to even be shocked any more, so I just switched off.

I asked him to sleep on the sofa, which he did. My mum rang today and I talked to her a little bit, which was hard because she just tends to get annoyed with me because I haven't left him.

One thing she did say which touched a nerve is that all of my family have commented on how much I have changed over the past few years. They said that I used to be bubbly and chatty and now I am really quiet and withdrawn with no confidence. She also said I am miserable and that I rarely smile, which I couldn't really argue with.

I barely recognise myself any more.
I'm worried that it seems like I blame dh and AS for the state of my marriage. It isn't the AS-it's the fact that he won't even try to help himself.

To the lovely posters on here who have AS, please don't think that I don't want to be with dh because of it -I do love him, but he won't budge and inch and that is what makes me want to give up.
In fact, you give me real hope that dd1 (AS) can have a happy relationship as an adult.

Thanks again everyone x

siblingrivalry - are things any better today? I've got to the end of my tether with DH several times over the last few years and felt like walking out. I also suggested couples counselling to him but he wouldn't go so I went on my own to Relate which was really helpful. I got chance to offload all the anger and resentment I'd built up towards him over the years. I also got to weigh up the pros and cons of leaving versus staying, and realised it was my choice which made me feel more in control, and in the end I decided to stay but recognised that it was my decision to stay for now, but that I had choices if things changed in the future.

The counselling also boosted my self esteem which had like you been eroded by living with him. I know what you mean about feeling numb - I've felt like that about the situation for some time.

Have you thought about going to Relate on your own? It really helped me.

Nice one, Mary -holding up a mirror to him!

Have you seen that film "Sleeping with the Enemy?". Nothing to do with AS, but about a controlling husband. My ex- wasn't violent, but he used to do things like rearrange the kitchen cupboards and make sure the towels lined up, like in that film.

As an act of rebellion I hired it from the video shop and we watched it. My ex hated it, I wonder why?

(Maybe my ex was on the spectrum??? Argh!)

Thanks, Mary, that's reassuring. I think that when I feel better, I will be in a position to offer more support etc. I'm sorry you had similar experiences to me -it's no fun.

Thanks, Mary, that's reassuring. I think that when I feel better, I will be in a position to offer more support etc. I'm sorry you had similar experiences to me -it's no fun.

Its a bit more than that, its to do with the DM having a regular column, and picking up whole threads as the theme.

siblingrivalry, don't worry about what you can't do, we all go through periods of difficulty. I belong to a couple of support threads on MN and everyone is there for one another, we don't all have to be positive contributors at the same time. We pull together!

My first 'D'H was a hypercritical, controlling husband, and he totally eroded my self-esteem. Made it feel it was my fault. I know some of what you're going through.

Not 100% sure but I think a journalist wrote for the Daily Mail about mumsnet and included people's usernames and quotes without their permission.

You are right in my case, Mary. I will no longer be posting in the SN section because I can't bear the thought of other people (rl) reading the stuff I've written about dd1.

I didn't post on here earlier today because I am having yet another awful day with dh. He refuses to discuss anything and just starts shouting at me,being critical or literally walks away.

I'm so sorry that I'm no use to anyone on here at the moment, but I feel that I'm in a dark hole. I very rarely cry, but am constantly fighting back tears lately.
He's twisting everything so much that I feel like everything must be my fault and I'm a bad person. I feel so close to just walking out.

What are the DM issues?

No, you're not scaremongering, Mary. People are very concerned about being identified, I now realise after reading the posts.

It might not be, I might be scare-mongering

Oh gosh, is that why it has all gone quiet? [naive] I am not in the UK, so it is less of an issue for me, I think... Maybe it isn't. How awful.

If I can help anyone off-board, let me know. I guess with the DM issues, people might prefer this, and avoid sharing TMI.

Hope everyone is having a good day! It looks like its going to be a warm one!

Siblingrivalry, I know exactly what you mean about feeling numb. I found myself just functioning like a robot a few months ago and I couldn't work out whether I was really serene, or really depressed. There were other hormonal things going on too, which I have resolved, so I feel a bit better now. It is completely exhausting - it's like going around and round in circles and never getting anywhere. And so boring with all the routines and everything always the same. Is there any way you could get away for a few days just to get a break from it all? I know you'd probably have to take your DCs with you, but it might shake him into seeing that you are serious. I left once (but only for a night and I made it clear that I was doing it to get some space after he did something particularly unaccepatable) - and it was very effective.

Thanks very much to all who posted about signs to look out for in children and Amber for the advice about how to let him know when things bother me. I probably say something really wishy washy like 'I really wish you wouldn't say that' which isn't sending a clear message.
Mary, I love your work story
MrsAsp I'm sorry you are having a bad time. Days of black moods does sound like depression, which is quite common in people with Asperger's, understandably. Makes it all even more difficult though...

Thanks Mary

No, there's nobody at all. I'm ashamed to say that I have lost contact with a lot of friends because it became too hard to keep making excuses for dh and his behaviour. So I kind of withdrew, because it made things easier. eg I was embarrassed when they came to visit and he ignored them or left the room as soon as they entered it.

I'm not close to my mum at all (she dislikes dh and constantly berates me for staying with him) and I don't have any contact with my father.
The rest of my family aren't close by, but I wouldn't be comfortable talking to them anyway. But that's another story for another time!

support here from me too, you need to take care of yourself. Is there really no-one you can turn to IRL?

Thanks, amber. You have summed up my situation very eloquently, I think.

I think if DH was able to see past his own needs and wants, we would have stood a chance.
His own mother, who thinks the sun shines out of dh, has admitted on many occassions that he is completely selfish and unable to think about anyone but himself

He takes and takes, regardless of the cost to me and never thinks to put anything back. If I was a bank account, I would be permanently and hugely overdrawn while he sat on his assets!

I am so sorry other people have to go through this, but glad that we can support each other.

siblingrivalry, relationships have to be both people putting in the effort/getting enough out of it for themselves. You've had to do all the former and had none of the latter, by the sound of it.

You don't have to live like that, no. But again I am so sad that you are with someone who seemingly cannot see past their own needs and wants.

Large cups of tea all round, I think.

Sorry you are having a bad day,mrsasp. I know exactly how you must have felt when you saw the NT couple -I feel the same when I see simple things like a friend's husband holding her hand or putting his arm round her.

I told my dh the other night that I can't carry on like this. Relate gave me the details of a counsellor who specialises in couple therapy where one (or both, I suppose) has AS. I said if he wasn't willing to try it, I would have to walk away. I am really, really on the bottom with his moods and behaviour.

He said to let him think about it, but he's already coming up with all the reasons why he doesn't think we need therapy etc. I have literally been here countless times and I just can't do it any more.

So I asked him to leave today, to give us some space. He looked incredulous and asked why -as if it was totally out of the blue. Then he did the thing that upsets me the most -he tried to turn it all around so
that I was the unreasonable one/I was the one who was selfish/ I made his life unbearable.

I am not an angel, but I know with total certainty that the last 10 years have involved me making all of the sacrifices and trying everything I could think of to make things work.
He is totally unable to accept responsibility for any of his actions.

Would anyone know what I mean if I say that I am utterly exhausted by the whole thing -to the point where I almost feel numb?

I'm sorry for the long post. I don't have anyone at all in RL who knows what's going on, so I'm in a lonely place at the moment. Thanks.

mrsasp, I am so sad that you're having to live like that. This is going to be zero consolation, but my AS hubby is just lovely (most of the time - no-one's perfect!) and will happily massage my feet etc. So much also depends on personality, I think, and how much determined re-training schools and parents and community put into us.
But if there's not a reason like depression for his behaviours, I'd say this is a very unacceptable way for you to have to live.

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

My son has AS as well as me. The pre school picked up on some things, but it was the school who first raised it seriously. I never picked up on it at all (wonder why? LOL)

At pre-school he always refused to dress up, and wear dressing-up clothes. And when they used to line up to go outside, he always had to be last, and to follow the imaginary line on the floor to go out. He was obsessed with the colour green (still is). He would have been 4 at the time.

My husband and I tease each other a lot. I was brought up with brothers who teased, so I was used to it. We were out with his work colleagues once and were teasing each other - his work colleagues thought we were ROWING. , but DH said, no its just friendly banter. But if it hurts, he needs to understand that it hurts, even it he can't understand why it hurts.

Jude, to answer your question about children my DS, my eldest and only boy, was about 3.5 or so when I started to worry a bit about what was going on. DD3 was the same age but this time I knew what I was looking at and pushed hard for a diagnosis, although she presented differently as girls do. Ds had a dx at 10, dd at 7.

I'm not sure what exactly triggered it with ds, nursery had no experience of it and didn't really help. His P1 teacher knew what the problem was, but obviously couldn't tell us. Lack of friends, I suppose, and the ability to reel off the script of Toy Story word perfectly after having watched it a couple of times. Also, DD1 could do things he couldn't, although she was 2 years younger. With DD3, she was not developing in the same way as the two older DDs, and although she didn't tick all the boxes for Aspergers' that was probably because she already lived in an AS-friendly household so some of the behaviours were 'normal' for us.

I like essays. I write them myself.

If a partner absolutely won't listen to a reasoned point of view, and comes back with comments about "it's all about you every time", then that's thoroughly unreasonable whether they're ASC or not. Everyone is allowed a reasonable point of view properly expressed. That's lesson one of getting on with other people, though we can misunderstand the point or panic if people get cross.

We can easily misunderstand "Don't do that!" for "Don't do that this time but it'll be ok another time". The instruction "Don't do that ever, not once, not under any circumstances because if you do, Y happens to me and then X will happen to you" can help. And then repetition if it doesn't. Not quite like talking to a child, but very much like talking to a computer that needs lines of programming to work out what to do or not do, but keeps losing the programme from last time.

Generalising, children with an ASC tend to be very routine-driven, aren't able to use body language and eye contact to convey meaning, take things very literally, have extraordinary special interests involving categorising and analysing things, may have sensory problems (light, heat, touch,particular foods etc), often have sleep problems. What happens if you take them to a surprise party with a load of people there? I'd find a table and stay under it, personally.

The fear thing is a big one for so many of us. Something different happens, and we get absolutely flooded with fear, which switches off all the emotional content and leaves us communicating worse than before with people. So they get crosser and crosser and mistake it for rudeness or awfulness of some kind when in reality we're just bl*dy terrified. Very difficult to explain when their brains don't do that stuff.

Hi all
I haven't posted for a couple of days because I had a big work project on but I have been trying to keep up with everyone's posts. Yellowhammer: great to hear that things have improved .
I know things have moved on a bit but siblingrivalry, you mentioned that I had insight into AS and I think that that has come through reading books, talking to people on here, those with and without AS, and seeing my counsellor. Her room is full of books on AS and by people with AS - I think perhaps her own partner may have AS. She has been fantastic actually, I realise. One of the things she explained to me is that people with AS are very anxious a lot of time, and that this is why they seem abrupt, or rude or have unusual body language. I try to think about it like this: I imagine losing one of my children on a busy street and that sick panicked feeling you get. Then someone comes up to me and asks me something irrelevant like what do I want for dinner. I imagine that that must be what it is like for someone with AS when they are in situations that make them uncomfortable. She also explained that people with AS think that the way that NT people can read faces etc. is like having a magical power. Amber touched on this point also, when she mentioned that it must be amazing to live in a world where you don't just have to rely on clear words. Part of why I can articulate about is that, since I realised my dh had AS, I have thought of nothing else, to an unhealthy degree I think. I formulate my thoughts about it and even talk to myself in the car, going over and over things that have happened and trying to make sense of it all. I’m sure my littlest one thinks I’m nuts, but she can’t tell me yet Writing it all down is really helpful so thanks all for bearing with my long posts .

TimeForMe mentioned about the emotional withdrawal and I think part of why I have done this is because I honestly don't know who my dh is anymore. When I met him first he was quite proud of the fact that he could put on different personas for different situations, or with different people. I used to say to him that he didn't need to do that, that the real him was a really nice person. Now I'm not sure if that person is the real him, or if that was a persona that he adopted for me, because he'd worked out that that was the one I liked. I don't see that person all that often any more, only when we've had a drink and I am in the ‘slot’ of his day that he has allocated for me - the end of the day when I am tired and just want to go to bed to sleep.

Another thing that really bothers me is the constant teasing. There is one thing that I am quite sensitive about at the moment and I have explained this to him on several occasions, but he still goes on and on about it. Honestly, it is like Groundhog Day, but Amber your post where you said that you need to be told things 30 times really helped because now I think maybe he isn't being deliberately mean to me and picking on my weakest point - he just doesn't get it, or remember that it bothers me so much. Once he did actually apologise, but then the next week he would be at it again. On the emotional note, we actually had a huge row the other day with lots of storming around the house and although neither of us really had a clue what the other was on about , it cleared the air a bit.

I am hoping to get to a point where I will be able to talk to him about AS and then maybe we will come to some sort of understanding. I think he sees me knowing about it as a huge threat at the moment, but I think we would both be a lot happier if we acknowledged it, and worked out strategies to handle it. The thing is though that any attempt I make to discuss my feelings is described by him as my being selfish: 'it's all about you isn't it?' he says . He is incapable of seeing anything from my point of view and that is where I get stuck. I really don't have the energy to keep explaining, and if he doesn't get it anyway, then really, what is the point? I know that the way to move forward is to offer incentives, or to point out the advantages to him, but that is how you deal with a child, and I am not prepared to do that at the moment, but maybe I will as time goes on. MaryBS, thanks for the book suggestions. I will get the relationships one and hopefully that will help

Sheepgomeep: I'm sorry to hear that things are so difficult for you. Have things got worse over time? This is what I fear as my children get older and as we become more settled: that he will get more and more set in his ways and become more difficult to live with. Could your dp be depressed? Mine was for a year and it was a truly awful time, but he got a lot better after he had therapy. Maybe you’ve tried this already, but it might help if you went to the GP yourself and he/she might be able to make suggestions about how to get him to get help.

Could I ask those who have children also with AS when they first suspected that their child might have AS? And what was it that first alerted you? I'm not concerned about my older child, but am a little about my younger.
Thanks all. I feel like I have made some online friends which is really good. I’ve posted on and off on MN for years (under a different name) but this is the first time I have really connected with people and it is great. Bet you all wish I would stop writing essays though .

Update:

This is the book I quoted from.

There are 2 other books she wrote which look more relevant to here; if they're as good as the above, then they're very good indeed:

Asperger Syndrome - a love story

Love, Sex and Long-term Relationships: What People with Asperger Syndrome Really Really Want

I like cuddles, but not all the time. If I've been working hard on something, my mind is still on that thing, and coming up behind me and cuddling me is very likely to cause me to say something like "DON'T!". On the other hand, a relaxing evening in front of the TV, with a glass of wine, and a hubby who says "shall we cuddle up" is actually quite enjoyable!

I've just finished reading a really good book - Asperger Syndrome and Employment, by Sarah Hendrickx. She's written other books too. Its got a LOT of case by case information I can really relate to. Where people with AS talk about how they deal with things. And it shows the different reactions Aspies give in a given situation.

The bit I thought I could mention (well there's lots, but this in particular) is to do with what to do when you suspect someone has AS. I'll paraphrase it to suit (as its concerning a work situation):
"Imagine how you would feel if you were told you had autism and this is the first you'd heard about it. The likelihood is that you would be shocked, upset, angry and defensive. The approach you use is whether the person is aware they have difficulties and what kind of relationship you have with them.
1. Can you deal with the issues without mentioning your suspicions of AS?
2. What is your motivation for telling them?
3. Will it help the person to know? If so, in what ways?
4. What will happen if the person rejects your suggestions or is very offended?"

It then goes on to say if it needs to be raised, raise it in an informal, relaxed way. Casually mention that the person exhibits some aspects of AS and give them some information on AS characteristics that they can read at their leisure. Its important that the person knows why it is being raised and what issues need addressing. If they have AS, they might not be able to process this huge piece of information immediately, and will be unlikely to agree with it. They may not appreciate it but may be intrigued to find out more at a later date. It is important to reassure the person that the relationship will not be jeopardised by this discovery and there are no negative implications to having AS.

Agree to discuss in 2-3 weeks time but don't bring up the subject in the meantime If the person dismisses it, the subject should be dropped. Only if there is a H&S issue should it be pursued - this is a very delicate and sensitive matter (this last paragraph is obviously more relevant for a work situation, rather than family, but i've put it in for completeness).

Time for me - yes my exh was terrible when I was ill.

After ds2 was ill I had several spells of ill health with non specific symptoms mainly and he just used to roll his eyes and get frustrated with me.

And once I felt really ill on the way to work (to the point where I couldn't continue my journey or go back home) and I called him (the only time) and asked him to come and fetch me and he did but moaned about it terribly. Took me back to his work in a taxi and then moaned abotu how I was taking up his time andhe had alot o work to get on with!

As for crying when I cried (and I cried alot whilst married to him) he would just do nothing. I used to hfeel as thogh I as having all the emotions for us both.

Even now after phone conversations with him I often cry tears of frustration. Even though we are not together I still have to deal with him alot over the dcs

I think we can turn into a cuddly person IF we can work out why the cuddles hurt, and do something about it. The sensory issues are difficult for us, but don't have to be impossible.

I know that I cope best with a hug if someone hugs me through a duvet, because it spreads out the pressure and it's not so painful, for example. Men being 'men' would probably not try stuff like that, but it's worth exploring what feels good and what doesn't for them, and them gradually building on it. But being sulky with people and demanding sex won't get them anywhere. Nor will being in a rage. They need to go chill out for a while until they can talk normally again.

And if anyone is scared of a partner's behaviour, then it's right to seek safety if needed, rather than carry on regardless, and get the proper help for the situation. A disability/condition is no excuse for violence or frightening the living whatsits out of your partner.

The dx was a big relief for me also. Although it now causes headaches as I'm jobsearching and its really hard to know at what point I should disclose the dx.

If anyone wants to go for a dx, then they have to want to go for it, it'd be pretty traumatic if they were pushed into it, I think.

I hung out for a bit on the Wrong Planet website, and that, plus chatting to Amber (thanks Amber), gave me the push to go for the dx.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

I'm so glad I've found this thread as it might explain some of my husband's behaviour over the last few years. I've always said he lacks empathy and doesn't give me any emotional support. He has the black moods and the rages and the Obsession Special Interest. He even says he prefers machines to people as they're more predictable (he's an engineer) and I've joked in the past that he must have autism.

I've struggled to understand his behaviour for years (as he has me to be honest) like someone else said the only explanation I could come to was that he hated me

He can't do compliments or appreciation, I ask for them from time to time when it gets too much for me, but he often goes into a rage about it. He thinks I should be more self-reliant like him. Like others have said this has led me to withdrawing emotionally from the relationship as a survival mechanism as his lack of support and understanding really affects me.

He'll also spend hours on the computer and then be annoyed if I don't want sex with him.

I got him to do the empathy quotient quiz and he scored 16 I got 69.

On the positive side he can be affectionate and says "I love you" often, and he can be quite sociable, and he is a good dad although he prefers spending time on his special interest to playing with the DCs.

So thank you MrsAsp for starting this thread - I think it may have answered a lot of questions. I shall look into the sites and books recommended.

<wanders in to whisper>
Thankyou MaryBS and AMber for the advice you have given me. It has been heeded and progress towards sanity made. Ds has sleep meds and is himself discovering his need for space. I now have space and things are starting to gain a balance of needs. the hug rule was the best though the hardest to apply. Thankyou for helping me when i felt lost.
<closes door very gently and tiptoes out>

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

he might do yellowhammer, it may come to this.

I found a lot of the questions on one or two of the tests not applicable though cos it they don't relate to our lifestyle and I think that skewed the results a little.

He scored quite high on the empathy quotient thing though for as.

I think a dx from the doc would help trememendously

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Hello again i'm getting to the point where I will have to leave, dp as is having an effect on all our kids especially my 10 yr old ds.

Apart from the 2 yr old he shows next to no emotion or understanding to the rest of our kids, he isn't cruel or abusive but he just has no empathy, he finds it difficult to show affection,he is on my ds back for stuff that happened weeks ago (ds has adhd) He has to be told to give his daughters a cuddle ffs

He has outburtst of temper for no reason, he can't hold a conversation at all, slurs his words when he is talking to other people he doesn't have day to day contact with, blurts embarrassing stuff out. He talks in a funny way sometimes, hard to describe, staccatto or in fits and starts.

When I come in from work he will not say hello unless i speak first, he will never say how has your day been, he has no empathy at all
He thinks it me, I think its him, I feel like I'm going crazy.. there is more stuff but I just feel like I can't carry on.

I want him to go to the docs to see if we can get a dx but he won't go

Thank you Amber, that is a lot of what I suspected and more helpful than you realise. I suppose I just have these thing that I don't want him to think I don't care but I also know that doing the 'normal' things that people do to show they care can cause him stress or pain.

"Differently to how you expect" is the short answer to how we cope with something like that. Our need for space to 'rebalance ourselves' is hugely important because otherwise our brains fry. Think of sticking every single appliance in the house into one plug in the kitchen - the oven, the fridge, the freezer, the kettle, the toaster...and switching them all onto maximum. The fuse would blow and everything would stop working. Same is often the case in our brains. And it hurts like hell. Hurt is the wrong word, but it's near enough.

A big change, a big unexpected something, and still having to cope with walking, talking, dealing with someone else, all our emotions...it's like everything plugs in and switches on at once.
Not handy for people who need that immediate caring hug and kind words . Not handy at all.

And if someone touches us, it can be another big overload instead of a joy.

No easy answers, but some explanations.

Amberlight I started a post yesterday saying that one of things that worries me is how he will cope with the death of either of his parents but I deleted it, it seemed a bit too macabre to talk about but it really does worry me how he will cope and how I will cope with him. I worry that he will go into himself and display annoyance and anger above everything else. When he is feeling insecure anger seems to be his coping mechanism. Don't get me wrong, he isn't angry at me IYSWIM, he just has this look on his face and a tone in his voice that keeps me at arms length. A bit like he is behaving now, if that makes sense? He makes it obvious he wants leaving alone.

Like I said before, I do try not to take it personally but sometimes it does feel as though he doesn't even like me. It is very difficult sometimes but I supposes it's a 100 times more difficult for him.

TimeForMe, wow, he SO needs to learn the instructions for What To Do If Someone Dies.

Many of us that missed out on an early diagnosis (because there weren't any in our day) had to go through life with no clue about all the social rules on big events, and no way to learn from watching others.

I also bought books on etiquette, which might sound mad, but I learned all sorts of things from them. Most valuable question he can learn is "how can I help?" If he can learn just that one thing, it will save a lot of heartache, I think.

Thing is we LIKE lots of instructions when we don't know what we're doing, it makes us feel secure. And there is an overwhelming feeling of being helpful when we give detailed directions or see something being done wrong (in our eyes) and we are HELPING to put it right. I recognise that is NOT how it is seen though, and have to metaphorically (and sometimes physically) bite my tongue to stop myself saying something.

If someone is crying, it depends why they are crying I guess. My poor children don't get a lot of sympathy if they're crying because they don't get their own way. But if they've hurt themselves, that's a different matter!

I cry a LOT more than I used to. I used to block every feeling, and actually got through life quite well without feeling much, it protected me. However a few years ago, I recognised that if I wanted to be part of a community, I have to let my barriers down. But its led to me being very hurt indeed. It seems that I can only do "barriers up" or "barriers down". There are a few people who I've now learned to be "barriers up" with, but that's caused problems. However, if I'm truly honest, for those people I really don't care how they perceive me or what their opinion is of me, I choose to have as little to do with them as possible. Its not something I like, but its better than falling apart because of something they've said. Like when someone said to me (in church, and IMHO without any justification) "You're not doing what's best for your child", I turned into a gibbering wreck, sobbing and crumpling up. I've tried really hard to forgive, but I can't forget.

Oh god yes, the pedantic instructions!! This is where I admit I may have snapped while on holiday, because of the constant instructions, being told what to do and how to do it, over and over.

Thank you for these insights ladies they are really helpful.

I guess I can safely say that my DP loses his speech when ill then. He hardly spoke a word last night, it is very hard not to take it personally but I have learned not to badger him, to to keep asking him what the matter is, that just makes him angry. I have also noticed that when he is feeling worried about something he gets really tired, he looks terrible at the moment, completely exhausted and he fell asleep in the chair at 7.30pm! I think I am probably doing the right thing by leaving him alone and not adding to his stress. I hope I am anyway.

A big hug from me too MrsAsp. I'm sorry you are having a hard time at work. I can completely relate to how you feel with regard to the crying though. I think my crying makes my DP feel uncomfortable. He used to physically leave the house but now he just loiters awkwardly (not that I cry very often these days ) His Gran died a few months ago and I was very close to her so obviously upset. She had died during the night and his mum had called him to tell him. He came into my room and blurted out, very matter of factly "Mum will be calling you later, she is busy with things this morning because Grandma died last night". I was really shocked and upset so burst into tears and he just stood there, not knowing what to do. Then he patted me on the shoulder and said he would see me later and went off to work. To get a pat on the shoulder was good and I treasure that memory!

Oh yes, we SO need an 'off-switch' for the pedantic instructions. I tend to use the time to think about other things when DH is listing out something or other that I already know

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Some people really do just look at others coldly and don't care, of course. Not all people with an ASC are kind or nice people. But there are reasons why we can look like we don't care when in reality we either can't see what's wrong, or can't think what rules to apply to solving it, or can't make our faces and bodies do the right actions to show we care. Or all three .

I learned body language stuff from the Peoplewatching and Manwatching books by Desmond Morris. Amazing to think there are hundreds of different nonverbal signals all the time between people and I can't see or hear any of them. I wonder what your world is like? It must be amazing to live in a world where you don't just have to rely on really clear words.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Embarassingly, I often can't see it at all. I can only speak for myself, but my own version of ASC leaves me 'blind' to people's non-verbal behaviours and signals, so unless I'm focusing really clearly on their face and can see the tears, I don't know it's happening.

I've learned to respond to people crying if I know it's happening, though. If I do see it, or they're kind enough to help me and say, then I know to listen and try to help if I can. Goodness, it makes us sound like monsters sometimes but it's not meant.

Large cup of tea needed for you, though...

Message deleted by Mumsnet.

I second what MaryBS says about losing speech when very ill. There again, I can have quite an injury and barely notice it, then really overreact to a tiny touch or a minor injury. It's almost as if our pain responses are wired up the wrong way round.

I'm ok with people not being well, as I did years of work with hospitals and St John Ambulance so know all the rules for what to do and what to say. I think without them, I'd be completely panicked by illness in others too. DH is the same - he doesn't 'get' that I'm ill unless I spell it out, as he can't see the body language changes or hear tone of voice changes, so I have to explain it in easy steps including the "I am going to bed because I am ill and I will need you to do X and Y". He does care - but needs that structure to be able to show it. Can't say that everyone with an ASC will respond the same, though.

Its true, we can't hear a thing! I hate being interrupted too, when I'm concentrating on something. I put a lot of effort into everything I do, and often have to put myself in the "right mindset" to be able to do it, and to be distracted by something which seems far less important at the time really drives me bonkers!

As for illnesses, yes I think it does panic me a bit. Because I feel helpless and don't know what to suggest. Its easier to empathise though if we are given tasks to do - like fetch a drink/couple of paracetamol. And to know "facts" about the illness. And if I am ill... depends what it is, but I can close in on myself because my focus is on what's going on inside my body. Sometimes if it affects my senses, its 10X worse, as it can make me feel overstimulated and sensitive. Its difficult to describe unless I'm actually ill, and then I don't always have the words because I've "lost" the speech bit of my senses. Having gallstones was an absolute nightmare!

On the other hand, illnesses that are slightly out of the ordinary can lead us into endless research into wanting to know more. I had Obstetric Cholestasis when I was pregnant, and it got to the stage where I was reading AND understanding the research papers. My consultant was getting me to explain my condition to the junior/senior house officers that used to come with him on his rounds, saying I knew more than him. On the other hand I completely pissed off my GP!

Now that makes a lot of sense too. My DP is in a world of his own when concentrating on something he is doing, I sometimes have found it hard to believe he really hasn't heard me. He gets quite frustrated too if he is interupted while in the middle of something, he won't put down whatever it is he is doing but expects me to wait until he is finished.

Can I ask how you feel and react when it comes to dealing with illness. If ever I am ill my DP shows no sympathy but not only that he seems to be annoyed at me for actually being ill, rather than let me rest he will insist we do something, it feels like he is trying to 'pretend' nothing is wrong IYSWIM, I get the feeling me being ill sort of panics him. He is a bit under the weather himself at the moment, he has a hernia but rather than share his worries with me he has withdrawn into his shell and gone very quiet, preferring to be on his own. I'm respecting his need for space and leaving him to it but it makes me feel useless and I don't want him to think I don't care.

This is one of those times when I wish he was into hugs!

Mary, please don't be about the way you write your emails or the fact you have to look back over them, I think it's lovely that you take such care and go to so much trouble to consider other peoples feelings.

Amber, thank you for taking the time to explain things in such detail to us, it really is helpful. Thank you to both of you

Aw thanks timeforme

I'm another one who stops hearing when I'm concentrating on something. It used to be a great source of amusement at work if someone came up behind me and spoke, and I'd leap six foot in the air with fright!

I communicate better too with the written word. Although that sometimes gets me into trouble too, people can't understand why I email rather than phone! But it allows me to plan what I want to say. For example, sometimes when I reply to an email, I write it first with all the stuff about me, and then go back and put in the polite stuff, "How are you, how are the children, how did the Dr's appt go", that sort of thing . And check back on past emails, to make sure I haven't missed something I should be asking about

If I look at someone, I can't hear them properly. I guess it's like those games where you have to try to pat your head at the same time as rubbing your stomach. Your brains can do both at once, and take in every bit of face expression, tone of voice, body language, word content, how close you're standing to them, the angle of your body...AND you can do that for a whole group of people all at once. It's the most incredible skill and I really admire it.

Mine does one of those things at a time. If I do two, it has to keep switching between one and the other - bit of eye contact, quickly listen, bit of eye contact, quickly listen again, hope to make some sense of it. There's sort of only one brain wire for incoming info.

Same on the computer - if I'm typing, I can't hear anyone because I'm already using that one brain-wire for reading and moving my fingers, so it's on maximum input already. Someone has to wave a hand in front of my face to make me stop one of the things so I can hear again

Gosh, thank you for that amber, that's useful to know. Your last post struck a chord with me too, I often feel DP is ignoring me, not listening, even though he says he is, he very rarely looks directly at me when we are talking. In fact, I have discovered that the best way for us to communicate is by email! He communicates far more by written word than he does verbally, maybe that's a way in which he feels 'safe'.

TimeForMe, the eye contact thing is a brain wiring problem for us.

Generalising, yours directs it to the people-centre in your brain. We don't have a people-centre in our brain (nope, really, it's missing - we have to use any old bit of the brain to put the people-info in, which is why it's so hard to find it again), so it directs it to the bit that identifies large scary predators that are about to eat us, and leaves it there. Nothing we can do about it - our brains automatically register eye contact as "arrgh - huge scary predator about to attack!" I can be so worn out after half hour of eye contact that I'm actually shaking.

I find a lot of MN scary too!

My DP holds down a very good job and is highly respected in the workplace, he copes very well and although I do know a couple of his colleagues have noticed 'something about him' he isn't treated any differently. I do know that certain aspects of his job cause him an added stress but he has found his own way of dealing with it, he never sticks fast. I don't think he would cope as well though if he wasn't a boss, if he had to take direction from someone.

The thing that I find frustrating is that he can't leave the job at work, he was answering calls and still dealing with work matters while we were on holiday, he doesn't trust anyone else. This did cause a bit of tension in me while we were away so maybe he picked up on that. And it's really interesting that you mention the shape of the mouth changes, this is one thing that DP says about me, he knows when I'm angry because my mouth changes shape,I'm really conscious of that now, especially as when I am really angry it changes into a sort of cat's bum shape

Mary, I don't think it matters that you have successfully held down a job and only been diagnosed for a short time, nor that you can pass for 'normal' most of the time. The fact is in certain situations you need a certain understanding and it is obvious from what you say that the job centre is one of those situations. Having AS does not mean you don't have feelings and you don't get upset or offended. You shouldn't have to tolerate being spoken to the way you were spoken to today.

And bless you, you are easy to be nice to and to listen to, you are a nice person. I'm so pleased you feel safe x

I've been able to hold down a job all my life though, and have had the diagnosis for less than a year, plus I pass for "normal" most of the time.

How do I know whether its snapping or not? Difficult... I hear anger, I don't notice what the eyes look like, although the mouth shape changes. The words sound threatening. DH speaks louder when he is "snapping", and loud talking hurts my ears (not just snapping, I have a friend I'm regularly telling to turn the volume down on her voice!).

And you are helping, you're being nice to me! You listen to what I have to say AND take it on board. A lot of MN I find too scary, but so far, here I've felt "safe"

Well Mary, I would say AS has a very significant impact on my DP's life, he probably won't realise that as much as I do, as far as he is concerned it's just 'his life', so if I were you I would most definitely be mentioning it each time you visit the job centre!! Can you ask to see the same advisor each time? Maybe that would help, if you could develop an understanding with just the one person rather than see someone different each time (assuming that you do see someone different each time) Mary, I think you deserve all the help and understanding you can get. AS is a part of you, you come as a package and it's for people such as thse at the job centre to understand that and work with you.

I wish I knew what I was doing to make him think I was snapping at him, although I do accept that he thought I was. I know that the tome of my voice is important and I also know that he feels uncomfortable if I am looking at him directly in the eyes, maybe it was to do with that. Mind you, when he snapped at me NOT to snap at him it did make me snap at him that I wasn't snapping at him We were like two kids!!

You are helping Mary, I only wish we could be of help to you too.

The only way to get a DX of an ASC in the first place is for it to have a significant impact on our lives, so it's a mad question by them. If it didn't, no consultant would diagnose it. Very odd.

And Amber, your body language has always seemed fine to me!