long distance relationship - AIBU to feel upset?

[european]

Well, first time on mumsnet and not even having kids (yet but was recommended this website as a great place for advice.
My DP is from London and I spent about 2 years in the UK in total (not there at the moment so we have a distance relationship, seeing each other once a month and calling every day - not perfect, but temporarily ok). We´ve known each other for 3 years, been together for about a year and are facing a decison what to do in future. I love him to bits, he is a lovely guy and I can see myself having a family with him etc.etc., he loves me as well, you know what I mean. BUT he made it very clear that he is not ever moving out of London, firstly because he has his kids from his first marriage there (so I understand it and would not ask him to move permanently full-time to my country), secondly he has a good career over there, so it is understandable...but I really feel upset that he just made this decision for himself, although he knows that I hate London - well not hate, I can certainly live there part-time or for 5 years or so - but never ever for the rest of my life, even the thought of it brings me down. He mentioned during his last visit in my country that he understands how upset I will be leaving all that and he appreciates all the sacrifice I will do to live with him - no discussion, no trying to find a solution for us both, just something that sounds like "well I´m not moving so either you move or we can break up, full stop" - so AIBU unreasonable to feel really upset?? He says "I´m a Londoner and I wouldnt be happy anywhere else", like if it was something above my happiness when we should be equal. Later on he said he really wants to be with me and we will try to find a way to suit us both even though it will be hard - surely he is not prepared to do 50% sacrifice with me doing 50%, he would love that if I did 100%.
So I don´t know what to do, I would love to make it work because he is such a lovely man (apart from this what seems a bit selfish imho) but no idea how! Anyone out there with some kind of encouraging experience? For example going back to your country maybe for a week every month or so? Or is that really silly?

[MuffinBaker]

YANBU to be upset.
You thinking he is selfish doesn't bode well imo. I am not saying he isn't, just that such a negative thing can be awful to live with.

DH and I lived 2 1/2 hours apart when we met and saw each other twice a week. He lived with me from almost 2 years of being together for 6 months then decided to buy a house near his new job. Said he would go on his own and if he missed me I could follow on. I said no way, now or never.

13 years later we have 3 children and have been married for nearly 10 years.

[european]

I don´t mean selfish selfish, just not really considering that my emotions at this matter are as important as his.
I would quite happily follow him somewhere where I think I would be happy and somewhere I think my children could have a happy life. But for im it´s London forever (even saying that he wont lie to me by promising something he cant keep, i. e. "maybe we could move in 5 years", making it quite clear that he really means "never") I spent enough time in London to know that it´s not the place for me.
But thank you for your happy story

[MorrisZapp]

He's been nothing but honest. I know how he feels - I couldn't leave my home town, no matter what. I just couldn't do it.

The problem is, there's no compromise or 50/50 to be had. He doesn't want to leave London, you don't want to live in London. One or both of you has to drastically alter your expectations if you are going to live together.

I really hope it all works out for you, but if he won't leave and you won't live there then be aware that time may well not change this, and that in a few years you may still be at stalemate.

Sorry - I know that sounds negative, but I have a friend who has been engaged now to a man she lives three hours away from, and I can't see any way of them ever actually living together. She wants to start a family and time is running out, but you can't force people to live somewhere they don't like.

[Doha]

YANBU
This doesn't sit well with me. There is no coming or going this with this man. It's his way or not at all.
I can understand about not wanting to leave his kids but for him to be so adament he will never leave doesn't sound too good for your future relationship.
If he refuses to negotiate on something like this-and really is choosing location over your relationship, there is not much of a relationship there--sorry
You will always be playing second fiddle to him and his wishes.
Think carefully--l wouldn't be upping sticks to move to be with him. Sounds like a controlling tosser.
You would be better off without him..

[MorrisZapp]

sorry, I meant she has been engaged for three years, her fiance lives two hours away

[MorrisZapp]

I don't agree Doha that he is controlling or a tosser. Why should people leave their family, friends, jobs and places that they love? The DP hasn't led OP up the garden path, he's been honest from the start.

I think a lot of people (including myself) get into relationships in which there are clear practical problems, but assume that love will conquer all, and it will all work out some way or other.

Love doesn't conquer all in my experience. If he doesn't want to leave London, and she doesn't want to live in London, I don't see that that makes him any more selfish than her. We all have the right to choose where we live, don't we?

[AMumInScotland]

I think the fact that he's being honest about this has some merit - many people go into relationships without talking about this sort of issue, or just vaguely assuming that the other will change their mind at some stage, and then hit a brick wall later and wonder how they got there.

There doesn't seem to be much room for compromise, but perhaps there are areas of London, or just outside it, where you could both be happy? (Disclaimer: I don't know much about London or commuting into it!)

If not, well I do think you have to consider whether you think the relationship has a future - if he won't budge, and you won't do things his way (I'm not saying that you ought to, just that some people do), then how can you get round it?

[claireybee]

TBH I think it is better that he has been honest with you now rather than telling you what you want to hear and you coming up against the same problem in 5 years time by which time you may be married or have children together.

Have you been equally honest with him? Eg does he know how you feel about London or have you been polite about it because it is his home. Does he just think you'd be sad to leave your home country without realising that you dislike his?

Do you think a compromise could be reached? Different areas of London have very different vibes (I'm sure you know that better than I do!)or would you both consider somewhere just outside London, close enough so he can see his kids easily but not actually in the city.

Or, actually, I've just read your OP again, are you saying London when you actually mean the whole of the UK?

Sorry lots of questions but dh and I had a long distance relationship for over 3 years and it can be difficult to work things out

[european]

Thank you guys and no need to apologize as I feel quite negative about this myself.
I´m definitely not going to ever agree to do it entirely his way - I know I would start resenting him if I moved for his sake somewhere I didn´t like and our relationship would fall apart anyway.
So either he is willing to negotiate and find a compromise, or, however much it hurts, we´ll have to break up.
Doha I felt exactly that, choosing location over us is not really on, more like if he was just choosing an equipment to his house or something (before I start sounding like I hate him - all was always good between us and he was very caring before this came up). I know that location is importan - but it is for me as well! - but I am prepared to do my share of giving up and try to find some solution, I´m not asking him to move to my country forever, while he thinks it´s ok when I do it
And this happend during the most romantic moments we had, lovely cake and coffee in my town, the sun shining, holding hands - and then he says this! (but yes, I do appreaciate him telling me before we had kids together, at least he is honest)

[Molesworth]

YANBU to feel upset but he isn't being unreasonable in not wanting to move away from his children. If he didn't have children, then perhaps I'd think differently, but would you really expect him to move far away from his kids?

[Molesworth]

Surely it's not location he's choosing over you; it's the fact that his children are there?

[solidgoldshaggingbunnies]

You say you can see yourself having a family with him, but can he see himself having a family with you? Have you discussed this? Because it's not just London he doesn't want to move away from, as Molesworth says, it's his children he is reluctant to leave and TBH it is not unreasonable of him to put his children's needs before yours at present, at least.
Why has it suddenly become an issue that one of you has to move, anyway? Why not carry on as you are for the moment?

[european]

I guess it´s always a problem with partners from different countries and it´s always hard to leave family and friend and things that you love about your place etc.
I´m trying to get my head around it, find out how serious it actually is for both of us and what to do about it.
I do mean London specifically, I wouldn´t mind living somewhere more peaceful in the UK, or even a totally different country (to make it equal for both of us and to find a place that we both like) but he just doesn´t want to leave London - I think I´m not unreasonble to say that he is more selfish at this than me, at least I am willing to talk!
I did say to him that I´m ok to live in London for some years or part-time, but I don´t want it to be my (and my future childrens´) full-time permanent home, so he knows. He says he wants it to work between us and we will try to find a way, but he doesn´t know what to do (neither do I at the moment). Apparently he hopes that I will try living in London (I tried before!) and start liking it and everything will be ok.

[lostinthecitylover]

What is your actual objection to London - millions of people do raise children here and it is very multi cultural so you would be sure to find like minded people. And as previous posters have said no two areas are the same.

Also parts of London do have a villagey feel or where I live for example in London has a a nautical feel. It is absolutely beautiful in summer (don't like anywhere in UK in winter) and actually is far nicer than where I grew up in the provinces!

I do feel people write off/demonise London without really knowing it but do excuse me if I am barking up the wrong tree.

[solidgoldshaggingbunnies]

Yes, it is a mistake to think of London as one homogenous mass of a place, there are huge differences between Kensington, Mile End and Wimbledon, for instance. What part did you live in before, and what did you not like? Also, why are you having so much trouble understanding that he doesn't want to move away from his children? Have you met his children? Because if you want to have a long term relationship with him, you are going to need to consider them.

[IheartNY]

I can totally understand why he wouldnt want to move far away from his children, but he is being a bit selfish to say its London or nothing.
I think a good compromise would be for you to suggest to him that seeing as you will be moving a long way away from your country and all your family and friends then he should be prepared to move out of London to somewhere that suits both of you a little better and travel a short distance to see his children from there.

[european]

Solid, I was planning to come to the UK in January 2010 so we still have some time to make a decision, it´s just I didn´t realize he really feels this way about never moving or compromising until he brought it up this weekend. It´s probably good that he did as we can take it from there. I can TRY living in London and stay for some years but I know for sure I just dont want to live there forever, so if he is never ever willing to move (or find ome 50/50 solution, if there is one), there´s no point taking our relationship as far as moving together at all is it?
I totally respect his children (and they hve to come first, I wouldnt put my needs before theirs) and I wouldnt dream of making him move away from them forever.
But he seems a bit confused when explaining his reasons for not moving. Firstly he said it´s because of his career and he wouldnt make any money anywhere else. (he is a property developer and yes, properties in London can make a good profit + surely there are different procedures for building in different countries so he would have to start from zero) That kind of upset me because of course it will be just as difficult for me to find a good job over there as well? I´m sure he could do it anywhere else (UK or elsewhere), maybe just not with such a huge profit but to be honest I think it´s better to be happy with less money than very rich but unhappy.
So when he realized I didn´t like this reason, he said he can´t do that to the children. (again, I didnt ask him to move right now somewhere far away forever) I hope it´s not supposed to manipulate me, as he knows I would never do anything against the children so that would make me accept it. But few months ago he mentioned that the kids mum is thinking of moving to Spain with the kids - and he was ok with that!

[AxisofEvil]

I have to say I'm also in the "he's only being honest" camp. I also agree that you need to think about whether all of London is really as bad as you're making out. If you'll forgive me for saying so, I would suspect that the issue is not so much geographical location but that you're upset that he is not putting you top of his priority list.

[european]

Axis, you are probably kind of right
Except that I don´t need to be the top priority (I fully accept the kids are) but I want to be considered AT ALL. The way he put it seems like I have literally zero importance, that´s what upsets me the most.Maybe if he put it differently in the first place, tried to negotate, let me have my say - I would in the end agree to live in London without feeling unhappy

[solidgoldshaggingbunnies]

I wonder if he is, in fact, not as serious about the relationship as you appear to be, or at least in no rush to move in together.

[european]

He seems to be serious and actually he was the one to ask me to live with him. But apparently only on his conditions, so yes, perhaps he is not THAT serious about our relationship
I will try and talk to him about this, just not sure where to start.
Btw he is also 15 years older than me, so maybe it just adds up to his unwillingness to change his life. That doesn´t make me less upset though.

[sparkybint]

This strikes such a chord with me, because my DP of 1 year lives 250 miles away and we only see eachother 1-2 times a month. He has kids and so do I, and even though his are 18 and 20, he feels unable to relocate to my area ( his mum and brother live here too so even the more reason for him to move) because he doesn't want to move away from his kids yet. I can't relocate because my DD is only 9 and needs to be near her dad who lives in the same town as me. Also, DP works a 6-7 day week so many weekends we simply can't see eachother. We are deeply in love and feel we have a future together. It's a bit different for us I suppose because we've had our families and are older but the understanding is that he'll move to me as soon as he can (could be another year or two) becuase it simply isn't an option for me to uproot DD.

I can understand your DPs reluctance to move away from his kids - to a lot of parents this is totally non-negotiable. But what would concern me is that his reasons for staying aren't consistent. Where are you from? I used to live in London and I can understand it may not be your favourite place, but it's so varied and if money isn't too much of an object, there are some lovely areas. But as others have said, I think it's the fact that he's not prepared to listen to you and negotiate that's more of an issue for you - you even said that if he was more concilliatory, you'd consider moving. I think that's the issue you should face up to, is whether he's someone who will actually take account of your needs in the long-term. Long distance relationships are so very hard, and if you can't agree on some sort of goal that suits you both fairly early on, I simply think they're not worth it.

[MuffinBaker]

Well of course he is going to ask you to move in with him. No effort on his part but regular sex on tap.

[MorrisZapp]

The cake and coffee near your house sound lovely, but life isn't all cake and coffee. It's being somewhere where you 'fit', somewhere you don't have to explain yourself.

If life was about sunshine and cake etc we'd all move to our favourite holiday destination. But generally, we don't. We like it here in the pissing rain, amongst the people and places that have been familiar to us all our lives.

I know quite a few people who are willing to live wherever they put their hat, and good luck to them. I could never be like that though, and it sounds like your DP couldn't be either.

If one of you did make the 'ultimate sacrifice' then bear in mind how you might feel if things didn't work out later, or if your sacrifice wasn't appreciated as much as you'd like.

I suppose I'm saying these are major obstacles, and it sounds like you need to sort out your goals before committing further to the relationship.

[MorrisZapp]

Sorry, this is going to sound even more negative: If he was being serious when he thought it would be fine for his kids to move to Spain, are you sure you want to have kids with him?

Or does he really really want to live near them? You're on a bit of a sticky wicket if you want him to commit to you and your future kids by moving away from the kids he already has.