We've agreed it's over and now he wants us to renew our vows!

[lilac21]

My husband and I (sorry can't say DH, he isn't!) agreed three weeks ago that our marriage is over and that we will continue to live together for the children's sake. We know that won't be easy but we're trying hard. I want to sleep in separate rooms but he won't agree, saying that then the girls will know something's up. They are 11 and 9. This morning he asked me to renew our marriage vows, then he will accept us sleeping separately. Apparently this will give the children the 'right' message about us staying together.

I can't agree - I refused to stand in church and tell lies about my feelings for and commitment to him when our relationship as a couple is effectively over and I don't love him, or even care much for him. Also I think it will be far more confusing for the girls than simply sleeping separately and explaining what is happening.

Anyone any idea what's going on in his mind?

[Pinkfox]

Denial springs to mind! I remember your past posts and the problems you were having with him about sleeping arrangements.

Sounds like he is scared silly that this is REALLY happening - you know men, they dont realise until its happening and even then they prefer to not acknowledge it so they can pretend its not real, if im making any sense!

Its a shame because you are trying to be very reasonable with him (I think so anyway), you have sort of given him a compromise but by pushing this and coming up with renewing your vows, he is just going to make you unable to be so nice about it all, I bet you feel like screaming?!?!?

Tell him its not up for discussion or blackmail, he thinks sleeping separately will give your DC the "wrong message" - what message does he think his idea will give them???

[unavailable]

He is completely in denial - maybe hoping that a seemingly romantic gesture will make you think differently.

I dont understand the "he wont agree to sleeping in seperate rooms" thing. Cant you just move rooms? Its your choice, surely.

In the medium/longer term though, if you are going to seperate and divorce, one of you will have to move out. It wont be beneficial for the children to have you living together "for their sake".

[Shitemum]

It sounds to me like he doesnt want you sleeping with anyone else...

[HecateQueenOfGhosts]

He's not accepting it's over.

tbh, staying in the same house is going to be very difficult.

[mamas12]

I agree if it's over it's over staying together for the childrens sake does not work One of you will be moving out eventually Everything else is just not workable.
Are you afraid of him in any way?

[lilac21]

No, I'm not afraid at all. He can be quite intense and analytical, since I posted we've had another discussion about things and he's been quite critical about my ending the marriage. He said he's not happy about the judgement occurring before the inquisition! There were several other emotive words too, eg I didn't realise I was on trial.

Although he accepts that it's over, he wants to know why and 'I don't love you' isn't enough for him. I don't even like him that much, tbh, and I don't think that's going to improve under these circumstances.

I can move into another room, but I'm keen to avoid a unilateral decision where the children have to know a reason why. If I get his agreement first, we tell them what we agree they should hear and at a time when we both agree. If I just move rooms, I'm forcing that decision. He has just said that if they ask, he will say that he still loves me and it's not what he wants. I don't think they are old enough to deal with the adult relationship and shouldn't have to be a party to his hurt feelings. And that's not because I look like the bad guy, I think if I could ask them in ten years time how they feel about me having spent those years living unhappily with him, they would say it was not necessary. He has told me I've ruined his life and he wants answers.

We're arranging to see a counsellor, although he warns me that I can't go with a closed mind (I said I am not going to effect a reconciliation, so I WILL be keeping a closed mind on that point) and that I should be prepared for a lot of...can't remember the word, but the shit will hit the fan, basically, with all this out in the open!

[lilac21]

Incidentally, I asked him to have our marriage blessed around our 10th anniversary in 2006 (we married in a register office but have been regular churchgoers for last 12 years) and he refused. It's too late now, I was asking for his commitment then and he wouldn't give it.

[lessonlearned]

FWIW my exH told me the reason he married me in church (he being a non-believer) was because I would have commitment to our vows - oh how he laughed!!!

[solidgoldbullet4myvalentine]

He sounds pretty manipulative - basicaly threatening to tell the children in the most upsetting way possible if you won't do what he tells you. Not nice. Not the behaviour of a good father. Is he pressuring you for sex, as well?
I would say that one of you needs to move out of the house ASAP, though. The couple-relationship is over and he needs to accept that, because he can't change it: you do not want to be his wife any more and you have every right to want to be separate from him.
Unfortunately, while you are living in the same house as an XP when one person does not want the relationship to end, it is very uncomfortable. At the very least, sooner or later he will get pissed and make romantic overtures to you.

[Dropdeadfred]

if you don't like him why oh why do you still want to live with him/
wouldn't it be better for you and your dcs to see you both living happier apart?

[lilac21]

We haven't had sex since last summer, ideally it would have stopped sooner but I was trying to keep the peace...

He told the youngest to 'fuck off' yesterday when she knocked into him and spilt his drink, that's not a sign of a good father, either. However, at least 99% of the time he IS a good dad to them and they adore him. He's just said that they don't hug him any more unless he initiates it, I said they are taking their cue from him as he has never been demonstrative. Seems that he can't see the parallels with our own relationship, I can remember a few years ago my gay hairdresser touching my face as he checked the front sections of my hair were the same length, and I sat there thinking 'it's ages since a man touched me like that', it was almost sensuous even though I know he's gay!

[Dropdeadfred]

why do you want to live together?

[lisaofpalatine]

the sleeping in the same bed thing is the last thing he has over you it seems.

i can't help but think what funny buggers you are playing by staying in the same bed - in the same house

the girls will get over it - and i wonder whether this is a little drama with you at the centre?

unless there are financial concerns that force you to live where you are, i think that in the long term you will probably fuck your kids up way more by playing this silly silly game

[solidgoldbullet4myvalentine]

I think I remember another thread from you Lilac: is this the man who has basically threatened to cause you a lot of trouble and blacken your name all round town if you leave?

[mamas12]

oh dear lilac it is over isn't it just that he won't 'see' it
The councelling will be great for you though be prepared for the fallout when he doesn't agree with the judgement there either. He sounds as if he will be v. difficult to live with now this out in the open for you and your dcs.

Please bring up the telling the dcs in front of the councelor for him to see that as emotional abuse of them okay.

[lilac21]

I don't want to, but it's a difficult thing to end a marriage unilaterally when the children are affected too (he's convinced it will ruin any chance they have of growing up to be 'normal' - can't say that this version of normality is teaching them anything about what marriage involves though). I have been looking into buying my own 2 bed flat under the key worker shared ownership scheme - bit of a comedown from a large 5 bed house, but possibly worth it...

Still here because of more peace-keeping on my part I suppose, and a consciousness that I am the only one who wants to break up this family. I may not want to live with him, but I am assuming the girls do.

[lilac21]

Solidgold, that wasn't me - although he seems quite content for the girls to know that I'm the one who made this happen and he didn't want it (perhaps he should have been nicer to me in the past then, or I wouldn't want it now either).

[solidgoldbullet4myvalentine]

DOn't give in to his emotional blackmail. YOU are not his property and you have every right to leave him, whatever he thinks about it (which is presumably that he resents losing a free cook/housekeeper/childminder and source of sex he doesn;t have to pay for). You will do your DDs more harm by showing them that a woman's wishes and needs are not important when they don't coincide with a man's.

[lilac21]

Lisa, not sure what you mean about drama - who is being dramatic?

[mamas12]

Yes but living with somebody who treats you like that is detrimental to all you emotional health.
Two (or at least one) happy homes are better than One unhappy home. You are not the only one responsible for the breakdown of your marriage, it takes two. Don't feel guilty I know it is a mothers prime default emotion but better to feel guilty in your own happy home than be subjected to this appalling treatment everyday, grinding you all down. Because it won't do him any good either.

[Yurtgirl]

I suspect I get on better with my ex h than you do with yours lilac - and we dont live together!!!! Dont do it it will drive you crazy in the long run

I also dont think its good for your girls. The tension in the air will be tangible and thats not good for them

My ex h and I live apart, (his choice) we get on great, hang out, talk, have fun with the kids........ but my bed is my own, the house is home to my kids and myself - we all know where we stand - and although I get on really well with ex h that is at least in part because I only see him once a week

HTH

[lilac21]

I'm not much of a cook, and he says he can live with a celibate marriage, and I pay a cleaner, and I don't do his ironing (we both work full time)...but I do most of the laundry, food shopping, tidying, childcare. We've had a few heated conversations about money, seems that he begrudges giving me a financial settlement since he is the one whose name is on the deeds and has paid the mortgage (while I earned a third of his wage and paid for childcare). I don't want his money, but the girls and I are entitled to somewhere to live and while we don't want this to get legally nasty, I know a court wouldn't let him keep the house (worth £700k, but falling!) without a settlement.

[lessonlearned]

God you need a proper separation in order to regain your dignity lilac.
How awful to have to sleep in the same bed as someone to preserve appearances for the DCs - he may be in denial, but how does this make you feel? My exH wanted me to do the same even after he told them he was leaving! In the end it looked to them as if I had ended the marriage as I had to demand that he follow through with his decision!
People still assume that I ended things and he certainly takes that pov because I would not meet his unreasonable ultimatums.

[lilac21]

I know he's hurt and upset and I've brought things out into the open and caused our current situation. He feels that he hasn't been given a chance to 'fix' things and I shouldn't make a decision that it's over, leave him no choice but to accept it, without having given him that chance (no, I don't agree, but that's his viewpoint).

lessonlearned - how does it make me feel? Well, I feel better because I'm no longer pretending to everyone that our marriage is fine, I have told my parents and told him that it's over. But right now I'm in limbo, and yes, it will be bad for the girls, and I'm being selfish, but I think we are doing them more harm by carrying on as we are than by facing up to things. Perhaps he's just not ready yet. He feels marginalised and says I more or less ignore him, don't make eye contact and he's unhappy because of how I behave towards him. He actually asked me earlier if I considered him a friend...I didn't really answer, but no, I don't think I do.

[lilac21]

The first line of this was going round in my head and had to share!

Philip Larkin - This Be The Verse

They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another's throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don't have any kids yourself.