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Right, listen up everybody.

(338 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

RealityIsMyOnlyValentine Wed 04-Feb-09 08:00:20

I shall say this only once.

Actually, no I won't, I will keep repeating it until the message gets through.

Every person deserves to have a relationship where they are treated with respect, love and equality.

There is never an excuse for verbal, physical or financial abuse.

If you partner treats you like shit, it is their fault. It is not because of something you have done.

You can't change an abusive man by being 'better' or sticking by him where others haven't, or by changing yourself.

Most people have happy relationships, where disagreements happen and are resolved without resorting to shouting, name calling or violence or screwing someone else.

Most people's partners are happy for them to pursue their own friendships and interests, work and education, have access to money, make decisions.

Most people in a relationship stay faithful. They don't have affairs or cyber-sex or obsessively wank over porn day and night.

Don't be fooled into thinking that dysfunctional relationships are the norm. There are many of them on here, but then people don't tend to ask for advice on healthy relationships, so we hear less about them.

Relationships are not supposed to be hard work, that is a big fat myth. Yes, you should work at your relationship but that is not the same thing at all.

Nobody should live their life in fear of angering their partner, or skirting round issues that might upset him. Or put up with cheating and lying for fear of rocking the boat.

Nobody should 'stay together for the children', or because of your marriage vows. If your husband treats you badly, he has broken the vows. Children are much much happier being brought up by parents who live apart than in an atmosphere of fear and loathing.

Just because you've escaped a level 10 bastard, doesn't mean you should settle for the level 8 one that comes along. The only acceptable level of abuse is none.

Just because all your friends are in bad relationships, doesn't mean that you have to be.

I really want to debunk the myth that all men are bastards. They simply aren't. If you feel that all the men you meet are, it's because you are unconsciously sending out vibes to these men. They can spot a target a mile off.

Be on your own. It is much easier than sticking by a tosser. If you have been in more than one abusive relationship, seek some counselling, you may be co-dependant, or you may be modelling relationships on a warped template, perhaps from childhood.

If he abuses you, he is not a good father. Good fathers don't treat the mother of their children with disrespect.

It doesn't matter how much he says sorry and makes it up to you, if he continues to abuse you those apologies are worthless.

Don't be fooled into thinking the abuse isn't 'bad enough to leave'. If you are treated in any way less than cherished, loved and respected, it is bad enough to leave.

There is never a reason to stay with an abusive man. He won't kill himself if you leave him, he won't take your children, and yes, everybody will believe you.

I probably have loads more to say on the subject but I will leave it there for now.

Much love to everybody.

possiblymaybe Wed 04-Feb-09 08:06:37


mumoverseas Wed 04-Feb-09 08:17:50

Totally agree. BUT. If everyone listened to you there would be no more posts on the relationships section wink

PottyCock Wed 04-Feb-09 08:19:30

hear hear.

onlywantsone Wed 04-Feb-09 08:29:36

totally agree with you - I read so many posts from women, putting up/making do/getting through the hard bits with their partners when in reality I'm thinking get away!

RealityIsMyOnlyValentine Wed 04-Feb-09 08:48:07

I would like to see classes in schools that teach teens about healthy, loving, equal relationships.

We definitely still have a culture of put up and shut up in this country.

We (as a culture) sneer at the romantic ideal put about in films etc, and laugh, and say, 'real life isn't like that'. We mock happy couples and spread myths like the 'honeymoon period'. It perpetuates the idea that all relationships are fraught and hard work and that women have to work hard at keeping their man happy.

We should expect respect and admiration and love from our partners (which most people get), and not put up with mockery, name calling, violence, belittling and control.

cmotdibbler Wed 04-Feb-09 08:57:14

<<big round of applause>>

I feel so sad that many women feel that they are responsible for their partners behaviour and put up with such shit

CoffeeCrazedMama Wed 04-Feb-09 08:59:46

Totally agree with you. I read open-mouthed some of the posts on here about the way some men behave, and am beyond shock at the way the women accept it, or blame themselves. And totally agree with the line 'he's a great father though' - er, no he's not, if he treats the mother of his children without respect and love. My dh too, when I tell him some of the sad tales, is disgusted, so ladies, it is not hard-wired into them.

TrinityRhino Wed 04-Feb-09 09:03:33

HUGE <round of applause>

very very good post

hunnybun1981 Wed 04-Feb-09 09:10:07

also just to say ladies please dont forget about the relationships were the woman is the abusive one

alot of men are sufferers as well and i think that should be remembered also.

EyefullTower Wed 04-Feb-09 09:10:24

Our local secondary school has been giving classes by the local Womens Aid group about abusive relationships, think it should be nationwide.

StayFrosty Wed 04-Feb-09 09:14:33


JackBauer Wed 04-Feb-09 09:15:09

Thank you.

I only wish my mum could have read this 40 years ago.
In fact, I may copy and paste it and send it to her(if you dont mind) as even now, she still believes that it was somehow her fault. This is the other thing, is even after (eventually) getting out there is still that lingering 'but what if it was me' feeling.

RealityIsMyOnlyValentine Wed 04-Feb-09 09:17:04

Absolutely, Hunnybun. I used the masculine pronoun simply because it was easier, but I mean any abusive relationship.

JackBauer, please do smile.

Hear Hear...

I would love to forward this to my mum but she would think I was crazy. I have just got married for the third time (at 34 years old). I had two abusive relationships which I left and then got counselling because I realised I was following a childhood pattern (abusive, violent step dad who mum is still with 27 years on ....sad)

She almost disowned me after I walked out of my second marriage - her exact words were "it's not like he's even hitting you" shock and "your expectations are way too high"

It scares me reading some of the posts on mn sad

PurplePillow Wed 04-Feb-09 09:23:47

Fabtastic post and totally agree

<joins in the round of applause for RIMOV>

LightShinesInTheDarkness Wed 04-Feb-09 09:33:18

Wow - RIMOV, what an amazing post. Really appreciate you taking the time to do that.

JackBauer Wed 04-Feb-09 09:34:29

Oops, how rude of me, forgot to


I did just call her and she is sounding good today, veyr bright, so shall just stick it on ym watch lists for next time she feels crappy and to link every 'abusive relationship' therad to on here from now onsmile

dragonbutter Wed 04-Feb-09 09:35:49

very good.

DisasterArea Wed 04-Feb-09 09:40:25

well done.

LightShinesInTheDarkness Wed 04-Feb-09 10:01:13

Reality - you and your very wise words are needed here

Fantastic post reality!!! Couldn't agree more.

This should be bumped, bumped and more bumped grin

cheerfulvicky Wed 04-Feb-09 11:33:12

THANK YOU for posting that! grin Every word is true.

HarlotOTara Wed 04-Feb-09 11:44:16

Well done for posting - lets hope that anyone in an abusive relationship is able to take note.

Snufflebufty Wed 04-Feb-09 11:47:22

Never a truer word spoken! I have been there, (many moons ago) and just wish I had read something like this back then when I was doing all I could to try and not provoke my now exDH, who relished the fact he could grind me down with his mental cruelty. I remember my then MIL telling me that because we were married, I had to 'work hard' to please DH because that was what being married was all about. If it was your friends who were behaving like this, you wouldnt be friends with them imo.

Great post smile

macdoodle Wed 04-Feb-09 11:53:19

Reality grin and <<macdoodle claps and yells enthusiastically>>
Is that your own writing or from a book/website?? Just curious - if its yours do you mind if I print it out and stick it on my fridge
It has taken me 10 years to realise this and even now I spend large parts of my day chating my mantra ("its not you, its him, its not you, its him") - and yes it is a pattern, my father was the same, and when I was telling my mum that I had been talking to the police domestic abuse team - she sounded shocked and said " what can they do its not like he's hitting you" So sad for her that that is how she feels all these years later, she finally did a runner on my dad 20 odd years ago taking my little sis but leaving me and brother with him I understand now but didnt then

Anyhow for ME, the cycle STOPS here and now, my 2 DD's especially the elder now 7 WILL NOT BE IMPRINTED with the same expectation of bad abusive nasty men and realtionships, they will learn about good healthy normal men and realtionships, they WILL NOT continue this cycle, and the only person who can stop that happening is ME

Thank you Reality

flubdub Wed 04-Feb-09 11:55:10

Good idea realityismyonlyvalentine.
Have they started doing that yet wrt money?

Neeerly3 Wed 04-Feb-09 12:01:10

fabberooney post <applause>

RealityIsMyOnlyValentine Wed 04-Feb-09 12:02:55

It's mine, MacDoodle.

You are welcome to print it out. Please do. And well done for getting out.

I didn't want applause or anything, I was stewing on this all last night after a couple of threads over the past weeks have really got to me.

I had a god-awful marriage, and was convinced that that was just how things had to be. And because he was never 'violent' (although he was quite physical and did punch me in the face once), I felt I just had to put up with it.

It is very easy to feel that the abuse you are suffering is normal. Especially if you come here for advice and see fifty threads describing the same thing. Or if the only relationships you see around you are the same.

It's not the norm, and everybody should be holding out for a relationship that is free from nastiness and abuse.

BlueSapphire77 Wed 04-Feb-09 12:08:06

Aww reality a brilliant OP

Hope i didn't push you over the edge to post it though blush

<<Feeling increasingly glad about not namechanging as had some v v good advice and support on my thread >>

YeahBut Wed 04-Feb-09 12:08:32

Hear, hear!
Wish someone had told me this before I wasted 4 years of my life on a complete git in my late teens.
And there are lots of lovely men out there. The vast majority of them, in fact!

OrmIrian Wed 04-Feb-09 12:20:51


"We (as a culture) sneer at the romantic ideal put about in films etc, and laugh, and say, 'real life isn't like that'. We mock happy couples and spread myths like the 'honeymoon period'. It perpetuates the idea that all relationships are fraught and hard work and that women have to work hard at keeping their man happy."

Well the first part of that is true. If you mean that all relationships can be stable and supportive, I agree. if you mean that all relationships can be hearts and flowers forever, I vehemently disagree and I think that is also a dangerous myth. Leading to women (and men) feeling inadequate and unhappy in their real, average, happy-enough relationships.

MaddieMoonlighting Wed 04-Feb-09 12:22:15

What a fab post <sob>

Tamarto Wed 04-Feb-09 12:30:16

It should be stickied at the top of this forum.

I agree, talking about good and bad relationships should be spoken more about at school level, some people have a very warped idea of normal.

tinierclanger Wed 04-Feb-09 12:34:14

Bravo! wish I'd had this stuck to my fridge 10 years ago!

RealityIsMyOnlyValentine Wed 04-Feb-09 12:44:23

Orm, that's absolutely not what I mean.

But there are miles and miles of middle ground between 'hearts and flowers' and abusive.

Too many women (and men) think that they have to put up with shocking behaviour because that is just what relationships are like.

Real, average and happy enough is great.

Working on a relationship means (for eg) listening to your partner, supporting them, working with them.

Not keeping your mouth shut or only dressing a certain way or not talking to people they say not to.


dizietsma Wed 04-Feb-09 12:48:26


*It should be stickied at the top of this forum.*


OrmIrian Wed 04-Feb-09 12:54:44

Sorry I misread it then.

I have a problem with people's unrealistic expectations of monogamy. I don't hold up monogamy as the ideal but if you are going to take it on it has to be warts and all. BTW the 'warts' categiorically do not include violence, infidelity and abuse, but they may well include the slight tedium that is part of a contented long-term relationship. Many people cannot accept that and think it means the relationship is on it's last legs. When it isn't.

Well said

I shall keep it in mind when I visit the Solicitor tomorrow!

MorrisZapp Wed 04-Feb-09 13:38:31

Superb points, absoutely spot on.

Sometimes I think we should send a mumsnet team to compete in Olympic gymnastics, the way so many posters will bend and twist the situation every which way to make it 'not their partner's fault'.

If you're walking on eggshells ladies, walk out. It's not you, it's him.

abedelia Wed 04-Feb-09 14:24:51

A lot of it boils down to sheer selfishness. Admittedly I have spent the last two days having to read the Children's Society 'Good Childhood' report about the effect of family break-up on kids so am probably biased, but many men and women now think that fulfilling their own wants (not needs, note) is the be all and end all of everything, and the emotions of their spouse / partner/ kids can go to hell as they have a RIGHT to feel in the first flush of romance now and forever with whoever comes along. If their partner can't do this they physically and emotionally abuse them. The result are miserable families, miserable single parents and miserable kids...

macdoodle Wed 04-Feb-09 14:30:51

I am a happy single parent and so are my kids - and a dran sight happier since I left my shit of a STBXH ...
Am not entirely sure what you mean if am honest hmm

Iklboo Wed 04-Feb-09 14:42:22

Totally agree.
There are times I still don't believe I deserve such a fantastic DH after 14 years of verbal, mental and occaionally physical abuse from ex-p

TotalChaos Wed 04-Feb-09 14:45:59

great post.

abedelia Wed 04-Feb-09 15:01:56

Sorry mac, I meant when people systematically deceive their OH to get an ego massage or - like your STBXH maybe - behave like demanding whiny children, not adults with responsibility for their offspring. I've done both and it is a damn sight easier bringing up dcs with two parents... Confused post the result of speaking with selfish parents and their damaged kids for two days for research - feel like I want to throw myself in the ocean! Why can't they have some consideration for each other -I think that was my point. (Got there in the end!)

RealityIsMyOnlyValentine Wed 04-Feb-09 15:38:14

Abedelia, sorry but I'm not understanding your point.

It is actually a damn sight easier bring children up alone than with an abusive partner.

And children of single parents aren't necessarily 'damaged', either. Children subjected to teh abuse of one parent by the other are much more likely to become emotionally scarred, actually.

<<stands to applaud Reality's OP while shouting 'Woop! Woop!' "You go girl" and similar until looks around, realises can't quite carry it off and sits down again>>

Thanks Reality, I've read so many threads on MN in the past few years in this topic and felt increasingly frustrated at women thinking that abuse is the norm, that their abusive partner is 'a good dad' when he's patently not, and that they need to somehow fix themselves so that their partner stops abusing them. I end up staring at the thread going 'GAAAAAH!' and writing a post to reply and then just thinking 'What's the point...' and deleting it.

Your OP summed up exactly the truth for me. Thank you for writing it.

abedelia Wed 04-Feb-09 17:18:15

Oh no, I think I am have been staring at reports for so long that I am having problems getting stuff across. What I meant was obviously when people become parents they should then be prepared to think of their family and kids before themselves and their ego as children prefer two parents and for their OH, having someone to share the workload with is so much easier - in NO WAY was I saying it's good to stay with an abusive OH / parent, not at all!

AnyFuckerForAValentine Wed 04-Feb-09 17:30:40

< offers cuppa to abedelia >

MorrisZapp Wed 04-Feb-09 18:01:29

I think I get what abedelia means.

My brother's XP thinks that she has a right to feel the first flush of romance all the time, and is now on her fifth live-in partner in her son's life.

She is fundamentally self obsessed.

It's not for me to say she should have stayed with somebody she didn't want to, but I can't help thinking she should have thought about the meaning of commitment before having kids.

I'm from a (very happy) 'broken home' myself and I always stand up for single parent and step families. But it is fair to say that some adults do seem to have emotional/ sexual diarrhea (sp) and that their kids are their last concern when they conduct their own relationships.

MarlaSinger Wed 04-Feb-09 18:55:12

Bloody YES. OP you are 100% right.

abedelia Wed 04-Feb-09 20:05:41

AnyFucker - thanks, tying myself in knots.. Morris - emotional and sexual diarrhoea, I can't wait to take that phrase to work tomorrow. Just about sums it up. I do love this thread, by the way. Very easy matter to forget...

RealityIsMyOnlyValentine Wed 04-Feb-09 22:06:11


lessonlearned Wed 04-Feb-09 22:41:22

I agree with your post, however, I hope it does not make abused women feel they 'should' have no fear of escape if that is their instinct.
Please spare a thought for the many women (and tragically sometimes their children) who are killed or made to suffer because they dare to stand up for themselves. You may also consider the many women who not only lose their children for the same reasons, but also suffer poverty and family (and societies) rejection as a result.
It may seem that women able to either choose or refuse a rod for their own back but sometimes culture tradition and paternalistic attitudes mean they face very real danger.

Reality- thank you. It confirms to me that being single is the better option for me at the moment!

RealityIsMyOnlyValentine Thu 05-Feb-09 07:54:09

Lessonlearned, I understand what you're saying, but in general, the safest thing you can do to protect yourself and your children is to leave.

I will dig out some statistics in a minute, but far more women are killed by their current partner than by an ex. sad

There are systems in place and organisations to help women and children fleeing abuse, these could always be better but for the vast majority of women, leaving does mean a better life.

I make no apologies for making abused women feel they should have no fear of escape, actually.

I actually wouldn't advocate 'standing up for yourself' with a violent man, as that is the point that things often escalate.

The advice from Womens' Aid is to make your plans to leave in secret, gather together important papers and passports and money, and have somewhere safe to go, whether that's a refuge or to stay with family/friends. Make sure the police are aware of a history of violence, tell them that you are leaving, and, if at all possible, leave while your partner isn't there.

In most cases, women are more at risk of losing their children if they stay in a violent relationship. The threat from an abusive man of taking your children is usually an empty one.

Tee2072 Thu 05-Feb-09 07:59:31

So very well said. Bravo!

lessonlearned Thu 05-Feb-09 11:01:35

I would not disagree, but if you consider that the most dangerous time for a woman is often when she tries to leave, then it is flippant to dismiss any (very real) fear.
I would still encourage any woman to get out with help if neccesary, and I echo the voices here who say that freedom is just so, so sweet when you get it.
I just wanted to remind people that it is sometimes not that easy as just making up your mind and reorganising your life.
I don't know if you remember ukrainmamma's recent thread where she pointed out that, because of attitudes, a divorced woman in her country would be better off dead. Faced with societies hostility, some women can find it hard (in some cultures impossible) to find the help they need to escape.
My own families attitude was the old chestnut 'stand by your man' and consequently I only told them once I was well on my way out.

MmeLindt Fri 06-Feb-09 12:36:03


If you don't mind, I am going to copy and paste this to a friend who is going through a divorce at the moment.

I think Realitys post should be stickied to the top of the relationships topic!

BitOfsexyFunbutnotupthebum Fri 06-Feb-09 12:55:39

Have only just seen this <<awed>> on, spot on. I can really relate to it too personally, having been in a seriously abusive relationship ("but its not like he's hitting me") and contemplated suicide at points as a way out. I don't think I have stopped smiling since I managed to leave, and now I have been in a very happy relationship for 3 years. It is like comparing night and day.

Fantastic post!

dizietsma Sat 07-Feb-09 18:14:11

bump cos this needs stickied

RealityIsMyOnlyValentine Sun 08-Feb-09 17:30:42


solidgoldbullet4myvalentine Tue 10-Feb-09 14:41:37

Well done, you're very right.
But what I also think is a big problem is the idea that if you don't have a couple-relationship you're a freak or a failure, which also contributes to peope staying with horrible partners just so they can say they are not single - and then people who leave abusive relationships getting, with depressing speed, stuck into only-slightly-less abusive ones (because they are lonely and scared and predators smell vulnerability and move in.)

RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion Wed 25-Feb-09 19:01:56


kettlechip Wed 25-Feb-09 21:11:25

Missed this the first time round, but it's fab!

mrsmaidamess Wed 25-Feb-09 21:15:11

I agree 'relationship' studies shuld be part of every curriculum, never mind eggs and sperm and how it all works , but how to respect yourself, take pride in yourself and respect others.

Only by teaching our children this can we break the cycle of binge drinking, teenage pregnancies, violence, divorces, oh it goes on and on.

Squirdle Thu 26-Feb-09 10:53:52

Excellent, excellent OP. i think i might print that off and give it to my SIL.

Scrumplet Thu 26-Feb-09 11:07:08

Well said, Reality.

I don't know if DS's dad was abusive to me, but he certainly treated me abysmally - utterly without respect - in the months before we separated, and I would agree with another poster that the "maybe it was me - maybe something I did invited this" thought lingers. I honestly believe this is partly true, and that doesn't sound good, in the context of this thread.

I don't believe the majority of relationships are all that, TBH, but I do agree with a lot of what you said ... if that's not too much of a contradiction!

Scrumplet Thu 26-Feb-09 11:13:49

FWIW, some child/developmental psychologists believe that between the ages of three and six (roughly), children go through the 'romantic phase' of development. It's at this time that they learn more about relationships, mostly from their parents, than at any other time, and begin mapping out their own relationship patterns and templates for the future. So, the teaching of healthy relationships in (presumably secondary) schools could help, but it's not enough.

Parents need to do their damnedest to get it right in the first place, or fix it, and that means leaving abusive partners, because although this involves the distress of separating parents, the ultimate lesson to the child about what is and is not acceptable in relationships is priceless.


Janos Mon 02-Mar-09 09:19:44

Have only read the OP but would like to add a big round of applause for RealityIsMyValentine.


fruitduet Sat 25-Apr-09 03:39:16

my god some of these things here really ringing for me, i am going through yet another relationship breakdown- seem too very often (same person) i always get back with him and forgive everything! tbh i think have total trouble percieving things, but when i read OP i feel maybe the relationship is not healthy at all and i should have listened to my instincts a long time ago!

if it is really possible to have a relationship which the op must have then i am so utterly jealous!

junglist1 Sat 25-Apr-09 08:29:02

I'm in an abusive relationship, and I agree with everything you said. There are good men out there, however abuse is very common, on a contiuum from name calling to strangulation and murder. This stems not from uncontrollable rage ( funny how these bastards can wait till they get home) but from a deeply ingrained problem in society. Books on abuse written in the 70's say "Most abuse can be linked to verbal assaults by the victim during the day" and even "Children can provoke their own abuse".Just because laws change, doesn't mean attitudes do. Out of 20 female friends and accquaintances 17 have been hit at some point or other. One ended up with a punctured lung. One couldn't sit down for a week. My sons are taught from now that if they ever lay a hand on a female, they'll be in trouble, even if a girl hits them in the playground etc.

This needs to be stickied

It helped me i know and would help a lot of others going through the same thing xx

ditzzy Sat 25-Apr-09 21:03:28

Is it possible to get it sticky-ed it at the top of the relationships section? I've only ever seen stickies on 'active convos'

P.S. If only there was a way that Reality earned 10p every time anyone reads this and feels better - I reckon she'd be well on the way to be rich by now!

Snorbs Sun 26-Apr-09 22:00:34

Junglist, I think it's great that you teach your sons that it is unacceptable for them to hit a female. Maybe, though, you also need to stress that a girl hitting them is equally unacceptable and also teach them some strategies for dealing with it when it occurs. It's not only males who are the perpetrators of emotional abuse and violence in relationships.

ninah Sun 26-Apr-09 22:02:58

most people have happy relationships?
a few

RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion Tue 28-Apr-09 21:10:34

Bumping again.

<counts 10ps grin>

I am very glad (and a bit blush tbh) that people are finding this useful.

gremlindolphin Tue 28-Apr-09 22:58:51


GumsNRoses Tue 28-Apr-09 23:01:22

Reality for Prime Minister <applauds>

DoneWithCrying Tue 28-Apr-09 23:05:34

Well Done Reality - brilliant thread.

Just in the process of ending 23 yrs of crap and looking forward to my life.

Thanks for this, it's really helped.

junglist1 Tue 28-Apr-09 23:09:02

Good for you DWC! Onwards and upwards

caramelwaffle Wed 29-Apr-09 01:11:50

<<stands and applauds>>

bump bump bump

BillSilverFoxBuchanan Wed 29-Apr-09 01:14:19

What a fabulous post Reality.

BitOfFun Wed 29-Apr-09 01:39:15

Pmsl @Gums- but I do endorse the sentiment!

caramelwaffle Wed 29-Apr-09 02:32:41

<<still applauding whilst walking upstairs to bed>>

bump bump bump

swineoclock Sun 10-May-09 08:41:04

Felt this needed a bump.

swineoclock Sun 10-May-09 10:33:18


EvenBetaDad Sun 10-May-09 11:45:39

Reality - I read this post when you first posted it and liked it then and I like it now.

Something like this should probably be put somewhere on section of MN and linked from the front page. A sort of MN manifesto really.

Also agree with hunnybun1981 and *Reality later on to say it applies equally to men and women.

Junglist and snorbs our boys also get it drummed into them not to hit girls (or indeed other boys). Sadly, a trend for girls hitting the boys happened last year at our DSs school.

This quite shockingly included girls walking up to boys and without warning and just kicking or punching them in the groin then laughing at them if they cried. Apparently some older girls had told the younger girls that this was how to make boys cry. These are 8 years olds and it is a nice Prep school. Thankfully a female teacher saw a girl doing it and a stop was put to it.

swineoclock Sun 10-May-09 15:19:05


SemperEadem Sun 10-May-09 21:24:08

Realityismyonlyvalentine - I think I am in love with you a little bit grinexcellent post. Am n a situation where I am thinking about leaving my dh and your post really hit home. Ta!

swineoclock Mon 11-May-09 09:48:22


RealityIsMyOnlyDelusion Tue 12-May-09 19:19:45

Bump for TDWP.

Podrick Tue 12-May-09 19:25:52

Reality Rocks

PeggyPatch Fri 22-May-09 17:27:02


PeggyPatch Sat 23-May-09 18:42:02


notevenamousie Sat 23-May-09 19:05:20

I only just saw this. Thank you, Reality. He hid my passport the day before my first postnatal job interview. 18 months later, I am brave enough to say this (have been on my own a year now).

PeggyPatch Sat 06-Jun-09 12:12:27


RealityIsGettingMarried Tue 21-Jul-09 21:17:27


thesouthsbelle Sat 01-Aug-09 09:07:40

Love it!!

stuffitlllama Sat 01-Aug-09 09:18:49

"If you are treated in any way less than cherished, loved and respected, it is bad enough to leave."

I disagree.

Not being cherished and loved is not abuse, and if your children are cherished and loved, then adults have to put up with second best.

stuffitlllama Sat 01-Aug-09 09:20:14

Of course I agree with the principles.

stuffitlllama Sat 01-Aug-09 13:09:31

Oh sad I didn't expect that to happen. Didn't want people to stop reading your wonderful empowering message, just thought it was a bit much at that point.

Ninkynork Sat 01-Aug-09 13:21:29

Don't worry, it's the first time I've seen this so you've done me and probably a fair few of us a favour smile

We should keep it bumped given the threads here atm.

NicknameTaken Wed 12-Aug-09 16:30:12

Bumping, pointing and nodding vigorously!

Tomorrow week it will be exactly 3 months since I left my very unpleasant stbxh and it's wonderful. I come home and nobody calls me a dirty, ugly moron! I can cuddle my dd as much as I like without anyone getting angry! I no longer feel anxiety at the upcoming weekend! Get yourselves free, girls! (and boys where applicable)

nje3006 Wed 12-Aug-09 18:23:43

Absolutely and amen.

I am horrified when I read of what people put up with in their relationships and how scared they seem to be of standing up for decent human treatment. How do we get to be like this? Whatever the answer to're so right about minimum standards...

SwannMum Thu 13-Aug-09 15:21:25

Do you know what? That is the best thing I've read so far! Thankyou!

My friend has just bought a copy of 'He's just not that into you' after I was banging on and on about the fact I've found out he had joined an internet dating site on top of everything else.

In short, yes it is him and not me. I just want a happy life!!

bronze Thu 13-Aug-09 19:09:00

Wo what a good op. Just come across this linked. I've been very lucky in my relationship9s0 but am going to save this to post to friends as and when I feel they need it

bronze Thu 13-Aug-09 19:09:18

Wow what a good op. Just come across this linked. I've been very lucky in my relationship(s) but am going to save this to post to friends as and when I feel they need it

HUGE round of applause.

Reality can I have your permission to copy and paste that in the relationship threads when I feel it might help the OP?

fabnewlife Sun 16-Aug-09 10:19:07


missingtheaction Sun 16-Aug-09 10:24:09

Am going to print this out and give it to my DCs (16 and 19)

poshsinglemum Sun 16-Aug-09 12:13:35

If your not cherished and loved what's the point though? Just hanging out because you have kids isn't modelling positive relationship values.

luckyboy45 Mon 17-Aug-09 09:28:37

Just want to say relationships fail on both sides and when they do, tit for tat goes boths ways and spirals. lets not forget a lot of relationships end like that, it is sad but should not be labelled abuse. I was in a relationship like this, I was probably unreasonable, but on the other side, my ex got to a point of ignoring my children when I was away working. It was a spiral, not abuse, an end to a relationship that started with love. Bitterness on both sides can make things sound much worse than they were and if things can't be fixed, moving on without hate is hard, but the best way.

Where there is real abuse, on either side, more help is needed, but people shouting abuse at the end of the majority of relationships does not help the real sufferes. I was once married to an alcholic who abused me but the constant reaction of hospitals, doctors, police.. made me feel I was in a normal relationship until I got stabbed. Guess I will be mauled for this post but felt I had something to say.

BertieBotts Tue 25-Aug-09 10:09:36

Could do with a bump.

pinkchampagne Tue 25-Aug-09 10:21:13

Fantastic post & I couldn't agree more! I too have been there. I was married to a man who would frighten me with his temper & it took me a few years to finally get the courage to get out, but I am so pleased I got there.
I am now with the lovliest man who treats me with respect & am so much

NervousNutty Tue 25-Aug-09 10:24:50

I agree with the OP, but in all honesty, if i'd know that I would end up on my own forever, then i'd have stayed put.

NicknameTaken Tue 25-Aug-09 10:44:04

I'd rather be alone, frankly.

ilikeshoes Tue 25-Aug-09 10:45:08

Thanks op i fell much more positive about meeting someone nice now,After 12 years of horrible dishonest lieing cheating men, i really hope so because pathetic or not i really do not want to be on my own

NervousNutty Tue 25-Aug-09 10:45:41

Yeah, I thought so too. I mean obviosuly in cases of dv etc then yes, but in less problematic cases then I dunno, the grass isn't always greener.

MadameOvary Tue 25-Aug-09 10:48:08

Glad this is back in active convos.
Must say I am happily single and would rather be so for the rest of my life that meet another twat loser like my ex.

pinkchampagne Tue 25-Aug-09 20:15:08

It won't be forever Nutty

BertieBotts Sat 26-Sep-09 15:11:37

Wanted to give this a gentle bump and add the Women's Aid Bill of Rights:

1. I have the Right to be me
2. I have the Right to put myself first
3. I have the Right to be safe
4. I have the Right to love and be loved
5. I have the Right to be treated with respect
6. I have the Right to be human - NOT PERFECT
7. I have the right to be angry and protest if I am treated unfairly or abusively by anyone
8. I have the Right to my own privacy
9. I have the Right to my own opinions, to express them and to be taken seriously.
10. I have the Right to earn and control my on money
11. I have the Right to ask questions about anything that affects my life
12. I have the Right to grow and change (and that includes changing my mind)
13. I have the Right to say NO
14. I have the Right to make mistakes
15. I have the Right NOT to be responsible for other adults' problems
16. I have the Right not to be liked by everyone.

fabnewlife Thu 29-Oct-09 11:59:04


ginnybag Thu 29-Oct-09 14:35:47


Should so be a part of education in schools!

fabnewlife Sat 31-Oct-09 11:23:58


teamcullen Sat 31-Oct-09 12:07:57

I dont think that people should put up with abuse.

BUT I think thats a long list of the only way to a happy healthy relationships. Fuck me I should have packed up and left years ago.

Come to think of it DH should have packed up and left years ago too.

We dont agree on everything because we are our own people.

We dont always talk in a kind fluffy manner when we disagree. Infact we sometimes say horrible hurtful things to each other.

DH has a pile of porn DVDs under his bed shock

There is loads more I could say which disagrees with parts of your post, but I will probably be dragged through hot coals backwards so I will keep my mouth shut.

But sorry! There is a honeymoon period, in fact there are many honeymoon periods.

And there are times in relationships where you have to work really hard to get past difficult times.

Lastly. I have been with DH for 15 years we have 3 kids, nither of us has ever had an affair but its not always perfect, sometimes far from it. But we work hard and have overcome difficult times which makes us both stronger.

fabnewlife Tue 03-Nov-09 19:46:15


macdoodle Wed 04-Nov-09 14:41:01

teamcullen, excuse me but what a pile of CRAP!!!!!!!!!!
you have obviously never been in an abusive raltionship because you would know that that is exactly the problem, that there is no working through problems or talking (nicely or otherwise)! It is always YOUR fault, you never tried hard enough, did enough, loved enough, fucked enough, it was always you!!

Dont come here and tell people who in some cases have taken years to realise that no matter what they did/do it would never be good enough, dont come here and tell them that of they had just tried harder/worked harder then it would have been ok, because you know what in some cases it just isnt!!

So excuse me but you can piss right off, I tried everything to make my marriage work, every bloody thing, but you know what my XH is just a self eabsorbed abusive prick, and no matter what I did I was never going to be happy!

abbierhodes Sat 30-Jan-10 00:24:08

A few threads lately have made me think this could do with a bump, so I searched for it.

Hope no one minds.

It's the OP I'm hoping to draw attention to, not necessarily the rest!!


ItsGraceAgain Sat 30-Jan-10 00:44:24

Well bumped, abbierhodes

The OP is about abusive relationships. One-sided ones, where you do all the 'work'. Replies like the one above are the reason why abused partners think nobody will believe them, and why they stay for year after grinding year, hoping it's what other couples call a rough patch.

But if you told teamcullen what your life is like ... she would say "leave".

TrinityIsFuckingTrying Sat 30-Jan-10 01:00:25

I've come late to this thread but feel the need to say


I feel lucky to have been loved and to have loved a real man.

not all men are bastards at all

unfortunately the world is less one of the bloody brilliant ones

roxi09 Sat 30-Jan-10 16:51:04

Ooh, it made me cry (thanks for bumping though anyway )

aSilverLining Sat 30-Jan-10 17:23:55

trinity you actually did come to this thread early (on page 1) grin {{{trinity}}}

I would like to add my own

AMEN too

It has taken me a while to get here but I now agree with the OP. smile

TrinityIsFuckingTrying Sun 31-Jan-10 17:35:50

wow that feels weird
when I posted first on this thread neil was still alive

differentID Sun 31-Jan-10 17:39:47

and you still feel the same way too Trinitysmile

I know that I'm lucky to have husband who loves me,who will treat me where he can and who will drive us both down to visit my mother for a weekend and I help him talk through work issues and make sure he's fed. He really would starve if left alonegrinor live on takeaways and crisps.

He has his irritating points, but so do I.

Have just shown this to DP as we're having an educational morning on the wisdom of MN (he's been reading the 'signs you're dating a bastard').

He agress with all points, and is slightly shocked that men really behave in these ways.

Thank you Reality!

AnyFucker Sat 06-Feb-10 14:13:33

this needs bumping every few days, tbh

Exactly AF

aluvss Sat 06-Feb-10 21:41:51

Very good post

queenoftheslatterns Sat 06-Feb-10 23:18:11

marking this to help me keep my resolve.

therealme Sat 06-Feb-10 23:46:30

Having a bad night. Just read this.
It's all catching up with me. Delayed reaction? Don't know - but I'm struggling here.
This has helped a bit though.
So thank you.

AnyFucker Sun 07-Feb-10 00:00:25

you ok, therealme ?

I lurk on your other (long) thread...

therealme Sun 07-Feb-10 02:59:34

Ah, AF. Spent the night bawling and used up a box of tissues. Like you do. But I'm still here.
Just when you think it's plain sailing... and then you get out a chick flick to watch in peace....and for no reason at all the floodgates open and you are left wondering if Cameron Diaz really is that bad an actress or whether there is something else going on that has you sobbing uncontrollably for at least an hour after the movie has ended.
Nobody told me that the 'numbness' would suddenly wear off without warning. That all of a sudden reality would kick in - and OMG did I get a kick tonight.

Anyway, sobbed my guts out. Eyes now red and swollen. But stopped crying when I read this for a while. (Then resumed crying, but felt slightly better).
Have stopped crying now smile

AnyFucker Sun 07-Feb-10 13:23:37

oh bloomin' heck trm, you were still up at 3am ?????

you poor thing, hopefully that big crying session has released some tension and you are feeling a bit better this morning

if you are anything like me though, your eyes will look like watermelons today smile

how are you ?

ItsGraceAgain Thu 18-Feb-10 18:01:11


maybees Thu 18-Feb-10 23:14:44

Wiil pin this up in my kitchen,good everyday reminder for me x

skinsl Thu 18-Feb-10 23:36:24

What a post! Needs to be on the home page. Thank you. X

gonnabehappy Mon 08-Mar-10 14:24:38

Again...this is worth reading.

AnyFucker Mon 08-Mar-10 17:07:04


BritFish Sun 14-Mar-10 11:43:57

this is amazing.
especially about not staying together for the kids.
i am lucky in that when my parents split up i was mature enough at 14 to understand they were better off apart.
so many people dont understand that.

SupposedToBeWorking Fri 21-May-10 09:56:08

Reality, thank you.

Just joined MN, and this is what I find smile.

BertieBotts Sun 30-May-10 12:00:07

This thread could have done with a bump last week. Hopefully people are still reading

maybees Mon 31-May-10 23:51:10

Wonderful quote from the Lundy B book "THE OPPOSITE OF ABUSE IS RESPECT"makes a girl think.When everything becomes normal and the behaviour has overstepped the mark then they are disrespecting you.In hindsight you can see the pattern but at the time you just thought it normal or made excuses because he told you that he loved you.But basically when all is said and done ,it might take years to work out ,but his abusive behaviour is unacceptable and disrespectful to you as a human being and "THE OPPOSITE OF ABUSE IS RESPECT"take care x

Loonybird Sun 27-Jun-10 11:28:26

Message deleted

iso Sun 27-Jun-10 17:19:08


poppy34 Sun 27-Jun-10 18:44:27

Amen to that reality

HerBeatitude Sun 27-Jun-10 22:33:39

"Not being cherished and loved is not abuse, and if your children are cherished and loved, then adults have to put up with second best."

But if adults put up with second best, they are raising their children to expect second best.

I won't argue that second best isn't better than third, fourth, fifth or sixth best, but I want my DC's to expect best. They wouldn't do that if I was putting up with second best, would they?

LaserWidow Tue 29-Jun-10 23:51:27

What HerBeatitude said. If a mother always puts herself last, then her sons will expect their wives to put themselves last.

HerBeatitude Wed 30-Jun-10 13:00:20

And a daughter will expect to put herself last as well.

I don't want my little girl to have a life where she comes last. She deserves better.

Junglist Thu 01-Jul-10 11:39:20

Some of us don't deserve better though. If your P and other people treat you like shit over and over and you haven't got a pot to piss in either maybe the whole thing isn't worth it. Better off out of it

Junglist, what do you mean? Are you okay?

Coolfonz Thu 01-Jul-10 13:09:40

My 11 month old boy is loved. Especially when he comes home after a hard day up the local landowners' chimney and hands over his dosh. I even give the missus half of it to buy us beer.

Junglist Thu 01-Jul-10 17:03:13

Sorry ignore the above. Was just in a teary ridiculous mood earlier. Had a kip and arranged a night out, feeling better now (slaps self gently)

Anniegetyourgun Thu 01-Jul-10 17:06:10

Thank goodness for that #sneaky hug#

LaserWidow Fri 02-Jul-10 23:51:02


Mouseface Mon 05-Jul-10 15:01:13

<<claps like a starved seal at Reality>>

Where were you 6.5 years ago? sad

thefinerthingsinlife Thu 29-Jul-10 11:40:58

Bumping this.

Thank you for this post reality, I was pointed towards this thread from mine about my sil marrying her abusive partner.

I have sent her a link to it. I hope she reads it and takes note that she deserves better.

Without mumsnet i'd be lost at how to help her, thank you to all the fantastic ladies who have given me advice

AuntieMaggie Thu 29-Jul-10 12:42:20

Completely agree with you about teaching in schools about how relationships should be.

Some people don't have the luxury of learning from their families.

sungirltan Sat 31-Jul-10 09:05:22

good post op. sadly its pushing me toward a post in relationships of my own :-(

toomanystuffedbears Fri 13-Aug-10 15:14:53

bump-printing out for my sister because of her NPD/bipolar "d"h.

Karmamama01 Fri 13-Aug-10 15:39:55

You have a lot of issues that you need to deal with before you consider having a relationship.

HaworthView Fri 13-Aug-10 15:47:16

I have not read the whole thread, but top bloody post! I had a wonderful guy wanting to go out with me 2 years ago. Everyone said he was the type to treat me like a princess. He's still in the picture. I wish I'd dumped the dp back then, and gone out with him instead. Once I've pulled myself together, I might give him a go. How could it be any worse? There are nice guy's out there. My ex is the worst I've ever met, and I'm 40. I think he's mentally ill actually. Don't give up hope ladies, still some nice guys out there to be had!

Thank you si much! I'm going to print this out and read it every time I feel that awful guilt for leaving my ex

Patienceobtainsallthings Fri 27-Aug-10 11:37:23


Janos Fri 27-Aug-10 11:40:46

Yep, fab post - much deserved bump from me too.

HerBeatitude Sat 18-Sep-10 09:06:59

this thread needs bumping again

THANKS for reviving this one.

There seems to be an awful lot of threads about horrible, toxic, downright CRUEL husbands/partners at the moment. Where did they learn that it's okay to treat their women like this? What are we teaching our sons? And daughters?

dontdisstheteens Mon 20-Sep-10 23:54:12


findanewnamequick Thu 09-Dec-10 04:50:43


detachandtrustyourself Fri 10-Dec-10 12:35:56


detachandtrustyourself Fri 10-Dec-10 12:51:22


googoomama Fri 10-Dec-10 22:09:27

That is the best thing I have read in years. I'm going to print it out and keep it by the PC to remind myself of its truth. Thank you thank you xx

StewieGriffinsMom Mon 10-Jan-11 22:11:59

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FreudianSlipIntoMyLaptop Mon 10-Jan-11 22:43:14

What a fabulous OP.

I often think - usually after reading MN - how lucky I am to have a DH who treats me with love and respect. But actually, I shouldn't be 'lucky' - I'm a person, I deserve it. If that makes any sense.

longweight Mon 10-Jan-11 22:51:04

This thread is amazing, well said OP

Mimblesson Tue 11-Jan-11 07:21:49

Bump again! An excellent post.

CoffeeDodger Fri 21-Jan-11 11:57:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Scruffyhound Fri 21-Jan-11 12:06:40

Very good. I agree staying with the husband for the kids sake is no good. Sometimes people are not sure I think thats why here is good as people can talk of their relationships and someone can say no thats wrong or well its just not that bad really. Nice one!! smile

darleneconnor Sun 20-Feb-11 10:57:19

bumping this again, as unfortunately it seems necessary

Bump. Cannot be read too often.

CheerfulMe Tue 08-Mar-11 09:46:58

Oh good, glad this has been bumped, I was wondering where it was and wanting to have a re-read

post Tue 08-Mar-11 10:22:40

and another bump on international womens day!

Skifit Tue 08-Mar-11 10:43:23

Brilliant Realityisyonlyvaletine.... here here,
So nice to read some good, sensible stuff on here, and not the total rubbish some people post.

Your words and thoughts should be bumped and echoed everywhere. Are you a marriage Councillor ?

You must put it on a placard at The Well Woman Centre.. plus, we need more of those.

atswimtwolengths Tue 08-Mar-11 11:01:37

Am I the only person who finds this thread patronising?

Anniegetyourgun Tue 08-Mar-11 12:46:04

Yes. Now go back to your kitchen, there's a dear. (Pats atswim on the head.)

Sadly, the points are not self-evident to everyone. They shouldn't need stating explicitly, but IMO they do. Haven't you noticed how many people start a thread describing an absolutely awful relationship by saying they're no angel themselves and/or they can't really expect any better after x years of marriage? As long as anyone believes they deserve to be treated like shit by their life partners, parents, siblings or friends, this thread will be useful.

atswimtwolengths Tue 08-Mar-11 18:11:14

How nice to be patronised yet again, Annie.

The points are plainly not self-evident to everyone, but in my opinion there's a place for saying such things and that's where the person has asked for support or advice.

LadyBiscuit Tue 08-Mar-11 18:18:47

Disagree. It's good to remind women what a decent relationship looks like. Christ knows, there have been several threads started in the last few days which show that quite a few of them are woefully unaware.

lionlilac Tue 08-Mar-11 18:52:59

Fab job. This post should remain permanently on MN.
Going to make copies and hand them out to a few friends that need to see that actual advice in black and white. Thank you smile

hairylights Tue 08-Mar-11 19:47:28

Thanks. Needed to see this again.

Sod the nay Sayers, some of us find this exceptionally helpful.

GKlimt Tue 08-Mar-11 20:36:01

Brilliant post.

findanewnamequick Tue 08-Mar-11 21:57:11

This needs saying, and saying often.

And as for this not being the right place, atswimtwolengths... I wish I could feel patronised by this but unfortunately I needed to read it. If it weren't for this and another thread, I would still be in an abusive marriage.

3 cheers for Reality!

SmashingNarcissistsMirrors Tue 08-Mar-11 22:09:49

most relationships aren't dysfunctional? what, on any level?.....i find that so hard to believe. maybe that says more about my life story which is sad. are there any statistics?

Bumblequeen Tue 08-Mar-11 22:41:33

Very good points here.

I stayed for fear of not wanting to be alone and believed nobody else would want me. Silly really as I am not repulsive to look at but abuse knocks your confidence.

At the beginning he thought or at least acted that I was 'hot'. He commented on my looks and figure, wanted to see me all the time and would hang on to my every word. Fast forward two years and he called me all the names under the sun and belittled me. Perhaps I wanted things to go back to the way they first were. His attention was not genuine otherwise it would have lasted.

Skifit Thu 10-Mar-11 09:10:50

Same here Bumblequeen, i too stayed for fear of being alone....stupid i know .
It seems once one gets past what i call "The Honeymoon period,", reality sets in, and so does taking each other for granted, and best behaviour goes out of the window.

GKlimt Thu 10-Mar-11 18:17:04

Brilliant Post

ThereGoesTheFear Mon 14-Mar-11 22:59:37


lubeybooby Fri 25-Mar-11 17:59:26


HerHissyness Thu 30-Jun-11 20:52:34

I keep meaning to hunt for this thread. It needed bumping. AGAIN.

This is the first time I have read it since I ended it with abusive X. I can't describe how it resonates with me now. I am shaking.

From my current position of freedom, I look back at this old prison of a life and wonder what on earth was I thinking.

Some of the time I knew it was wrong, some of the time I felt I deserved better. However it wasn't long before a comment here, a remark there or the plain futility of my existence defused any hope of a better life.

I saw a chance to get out, to let him go, and I took it. It was hard, but I took a deep breath hung on to the little hopes and dreams I had for a free and fair future, holidays abroad, happy DS, lots of dear friends, and let him go.

Ok I kinda dumped his sorry arse at Heathrow, by the end of that last car journey, the scales all fell from my eyes, his madness in trying literally every trick in the book to reel me back in was sickening. I could also smell the sweet scent of freedom, I was in the final strait. I could see that I'd not have to answer to any miserable misogynistic xenophobe ever again.

My throat ached with the painful lump of uncried tears. My heart heavy with the knowledge that I'd have to admit defeat, my brain swirling with incredulity that I had been such a fool for so long.

3 days. THREE days and I realised things were better. 10 years of egg-shells and fear, 3 years in a life worse than hell, in almost total isolation and virtual imprisonment. Yet 3 days of him having left? The lump in the throat was gone. The feeling of abject stupidity, also no more.

I got an immense amount of help from so many wonderful wonderful women on here, and with their words, I started to forgive myself for having been tricked by a master emotional conman.

I also got Lundy Bancroft's Why Does He Do That, and I've totally forgiven myself. I know who caused this all, who chose to do it to me, and why. I don't feel an ounce of sympathy towards him now, if he died, I'd be happy. Truly I would.

Cold? Cruel? perhaps. But no more cruel than he was to me. I hope Karma bites his dick off. Really I do.

So please, if you are in a relationship that looks like the one described in the OP. Don't muck about waiting for him to grow a conscience. It'll never, ever happen. Put yourself first, don't allow anyone to treat you any less than equal. Do it for you, for your kids, but do it. Today.

davidtennantsmistress Fri 01-Jul-11 13:25:42

very true.

TeachMySelfBalance Wed 20-Jul-11 18:20:56


freeandhappy Thu 21-Jul-11 14:18:28

aaand bump!

changeforthebetter Thu 21-Jul-11 15:42:37

Bump smile

Bumping this thread again as Reality said it all so eloquently; exactly what I am feeling today.

I have been spending a lot of time on the Relationships board in the past couple months, and my heart just bleeds at all the pain endured by people who all, every last one of them, deserve so much better. Respect is a baseline need in a relationship, not something you should have to beg your partner for.

Bumping it again

buzzsorekillington Thu 08-Sep-11 22:42:55


NettleTea Wed 05-Oct-11 10:08:02

and another as there seems to be alot of them about atm

BruciesDollyDealer Wed 05-Oct-11 10:38:04

i would add to the OP that people have to take responsiblity for their own choices and actions. Its not always someone else's fault

I feel a mixture of sad and glad every time this is bumped.

I'm tempted to copy it and stick it up everywhere I see a DV helpline flyer. And to give it to my daughter and every one of her friends.

Brucie, in many cases the victim is very young or has been damaged during their childhood. Maybe you've got a point? hmm but I think OP's post is perfect as it stands.

babypusher Wed 05-Oct-11 22:28:56

sad I know but im in tears over this post x thankyou x

Bumping, with resources that might be useful to MNers in abusive relationships:

Am I being abused?

Verbal Abuse A wonderfully non-hysterical summary. If you're unsure, read the whole page and see if you're on it.
Emotional abuse from the same site as above
Emotional abuse a more heartfelt description
Signs of Abuse & Control Useful check list
financial abuse Are you a free ride for a cocklodger, denied your own bank card or kept on a tight "housekeeping" budget that entitles him to privileges while you are supposed to act grateful for every penny you get for running the home?
Women's Aid: "What is Domestic Violence?" This is also, broadly, the Police definition.

Books :

"Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft - The eye-opener. Read this if you read nothing else.
"The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans – He wants power OVER you and gets angry when you prove not to be the dream woman who lives only in his head.
"The Verbally Abusive Man, Can He Change?" by Patricia Evans - Answer: Perhaps - ONLY IF he recognises HIS issues, and if you can be arsed to work through it. She gives explicit guidelines.
"Men who hate women and the women who love them" by Susan Forward. The author is a psychotherapist who realised her own marriage was abusive, so she's invested in helping you understand yourself just as much as helping you understand your abusive partner.
"The Emotionally Abusive Relationship: How to Stop Being Abused and How to Stop Abusing" by Beverley Engels - The principle is sound, if your partner isn't basically an arse, or disordered.
" Codependent No More : How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself" by Melody Beattie - If you a rescuer, you're a co-dependent. It's a form of addiction! This book will help you.
But whatever you do, don't blame yourself for being Co-dependent!

Websites :

So, you're in love with a narcissist - Snarky, witty, angry, but also highly intelligent: very good for catharsis
Dr Irene's verbal abuse site - motherly advice to readers' write-ins from a caring psychotherapist; can be a pain to navigate but very validating stuff
Out of the fog - and now for the science bit! Clinical, dispassionate, and very informative website on the various forms of personality disorders and how they impact on family and intimate relationships.
Get your angries out – You may not realise it yet, but you ARE angry. Find out in what unhealthy ways your anger is expressing itself. It has probably led you to staying in an unhealthy relationship.
Melanie Tonia Evans is a woman who turned her recovery from abuse into a business. A little bit "woo" and product placement-tastic, but does contain a lot of useful articles.
Love fraud - another site by one woman burned by an abusive marriage
You are not crazy - one woman's experience. She actually has recordings of her and her abusive partner having an argument, so you can hear what verbal abuse sounds like. A pain to navigate, but well worth it.
Baggage reclaim - Part advice column, part blog on the many forms of shitty relationships.

FiniteIncantatem Thu 06-Oct-11 13:12:57

So glad this has been bumped again. I have given it to a couple of people and may stick one up somewhere in the house for when I finally feel brave enough to date again!
thanks Reality!

caramelwaffle Thu 06-Oct-11 14:28:09

Excellent linksItsMe thanks

StewieGriffinsMom Wed 19-Oct-11 12:27:33

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Bumpity bump

nice bumping!

glad to read this - i commented to someone earlier how utterly depressing it was reading the posts on here and knowing that there are so many women out there putting up with miserable situations and thinking it normal or even good.

garlicScaresVampires Wed 19-Oct-11 12:39:46

Good bump, and timely!

sweepitundertherug Wed 19-Oct-11 13:45:46

Thanks, will read through the links.

FiniteIncantatem Mon 31-Oct-11 12:16:13

I'm bumping this again (can't we just have it as a permanent fixture at the top of every relationships thread?!)

AnyPhantomFucker Mon 31-Oct-11 12:23:54

good idea, FI

and those links of puppy's too

FiniteIncantatem Mon 31-Oct-11 12:54:30

Yes! It makes me so sad to see so many women decimated by their supposedly 'D'H/P. I suppose it reminds me of where I was once- I wish I'd had MN back then!

RumourOfAHurricane Mon 31-Oct-11 13:29:24

Message withdrawn

kando Mon 31-Oct-11 13:32:40

Well said Reality!

TeachMonstersShockingBalance Wed 02-Nov-11 14:07:02



BUMP...til next time. What about that book, mnhq?

butterflybee Fri 16-Dec-11 15:38:35

Wow, the first I've read this depite the million and one bumps.
Amazing. Thank you.

MyLittleFluffball Sat 17-Dec-11 08:55:27

There seem to be a lot of posters lately who might benefit from reading this...

BayPolar Sat 17-Dec-11 10:30:58

I agree with Fluff. I feel so helpless this side of the screen, as I read thread after thread from women, who just don't understand that what they are going through is out and out abuse, be it mental, physical or emotional.
I want to wave a magic wand that sprinkles 'See The Light And Move On' all over their worlds.

izzywhizzystwelfthnight Tue 10-Jan-12 21:02:35

Time for this thread to get another airing.....


Flanelle Tue 10-Jan-12 21:05:13

Excellent! And timely, yes.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Tue 17-Jan-12 16:05:55

A dust-off and a bump for this most valuable thread.

Bobits Sun 26-Feb-12 19:44:45

Brilliant! Bump xo

LiarsWife Sun 26-Feb-12 21:17:25

Excellent post OP!! I think I'll be sticking this on my fridge too :-D

Thank you!! xx

arthriticfingers Thu 22-Mar-12 16:40:24

Bump just because again

Sweepitundertherug Thu 22-Mar-12 17:05:00

Thanks for bumping, I need to read this.

WannaBeMegMarch Fri 20-Apr-12 16:43:53


Anniegetyourgun Sat 12-May-12 14:49:37

Time for a bump. Everyone needs to read this.

shopndrop Sat 12-May-12 19:27:35


HotDAMNlifeisgood Sat 12-May-12 20:05:57

This should really be a sticky at the top of the Relationships board.

NicNocJnr Sat 12-May-12 20:25:40

Honestly, second HotDamn - this really, really, should be a sticky!

OracleInACoracle Mon 11-Jun-12 18:11:14


chipping Fri 06-Jul-12 20:45:20

BUMPING this amazing, empowering thread that I 'bookmarked'. Thank you Reality!!

I was in an emotionally abusive relationship for over 10 years because I thought that was what I deserved, it was what I was worth.

Then I woke up (with a wee bit of help from mn!) & realised that I'm not stupid, ugly or worthless, I would rather be on my own than with someone who doesn't respect me, value me, accept me as I am, see me as an equal.

Divorce papers were served on H this week.


chipping Fri 06-Jul-12 21:09:26

A previous poster commented that this thread might be patronising. I don't think anyone who has:

lived in fear of saying the wrong thing,
been isolated from friends and family,
been subjected to daily put downs & criticism,
told that it is all their fault,
having no privacy - not even to go to the toilet,
being coerced into sex,
subjected to racial abuse,
tantrums when expressing your opinion,
financial abuse, etc etc.

would find this patronising. Oh to be in the position of finding it so ... you are a bloody lucky individual.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Fri 06-Jul-12 23:58:10


I think this needs to bumped again.

100% true.

I wish everyone realised this. smile

LawrenceSMarlow Mon 05-Nov-12 23:44:34

This hasn't been bumped for a while.

Dryjuice25 Tue 06-Nov-12 00:06:12


The one thread I don't mind seeing resurrected. Read and take heed women.

EclecticWorkInProgress Tue 27-Nov-12 22:01:27

Bump again and again and again. wink

WongaDotMom Wed 28-Nov-12 15:54:09

Thank you so much for bumping this

CaramelisedOnion Wed 28-Nov-12 17:32:00

Well said!

Bumping again.

freeandhappy Tue 08-Jan-13 22:36:07

Bumping again for 2013!

HotDAMNlifeisgood Thu 14-Feb-13 20:06:06

Time for a bump.

It's also action day for "1 Billion Rising" today. Not entirely unrelated to this thread...

TheDoctrineOfSciAndNatureClub Thu 14-Feb-13 22:16:08

Good call, HotDamn

IneedAsockamnesty Thu 18-Apr-13 00:50:59

This op is a genius so I'm bumping again.

Always worth a bump.

Noregrets78 Fri 24-May-13 22:58:29

We need some sort of 'auto bump' to regularly get this stuck to the top!

Why can't this be a sticky thingy.
Too important to rely on zombie-revivers

springymater Sat 25-May-13 11:19:52

re I would like to see classes in schools that teach teens about healthy, loving, equal relationships

Sorry if this has already been said (long thread!) but the Freedom Programme is currently being re-written (age-specific) to be delivered in schools.

YAY, I say. Get in early, teach this stuff at the earliest.

Great OP smile

unapologetic Sat 25-May-13 19:10:22

Thankfully learning about relationships is integral to the PSHE curriculum in schools. Children and young people do learn about healthy and abusive relationships and Women's aid's contribution is nationwide.

HotDAMNlifeisgood Tue 09-Jul-13 15:54:22


Jux Tue 09-Jul-13 18:52:41

I love it every time I see this thread.

plasticpotato Sat 20-Jul-13 01:08:32


AndTheBandPlayedOn Thu 25-Jul-13 01:00:56


NoComet Thu 25-Jul-13 01:45:41

After 23 years of marriage and 15 years of being parents, DH and I still fail to pass our no shouting badge.

The rest I think we manage, but I can't do the pent up frustrations caused by not shouting.

grounddown Thu 25-Jul-13 04:18:55

I needed that!
I am in the process of leaving my P and will keep this with me when I am feeling wobbly

Hissy Thu 25-Jul-13 07:17:56

I was only thinking that it was about time this got bumped again!

This is THE single most important thread on the whole of MN.

It is applicable to us all, those in bad relationships, those who have got out.

Even those in GOOD relationships can appreciate what they have and work on those elements they struggle with.

Reality, I thank you again! smile

CoffeeandScones Tue 06-Aug-13 18:39:24

Mr Bump.

Mum2Fergus Tue 06-Aug-13 18:44:26

Marking place to read later...

CharlotteCollinsismovingon Tue 06-Aug-13 19:28:55

Ahh, this thread again. Always a good read.

Funny though, this is the first time I've read it and realised it applied to me. I didn't think what he did was abuse. My mind blocked out a lot of the bad treatment, because I'd not managed to deal with it any other way. I felt he didn't respect me, but he said he did. I felt I had made my bed and I now had to lie in it. I felt I had financial freedom because I had access to his money, even though he thought of it as "his" money and questioned every non-grocery transaction I made. And on and on. I read the OP and actually thought, "This is a good thread for those who are really suffering. I shouldn't complain; it could be a lot worse."

Very thankful to numerous patient MNers for helping me to think clearly! I'd lost touch with what happiness was. And confidence. And peace. Now I'm starting to get those things back.

theMovedStone Tue 06-Aug-13 19:34:29


vintagecakeisstillnice Tue 06-Aug-13 22:08:24

Why isn't this thread made a 'stickie?'

It really needs to be

Bullets Tue 06-Aug-13 22:43:14

Wow. This has really struck a chord with me.

Enough is enough. I deserve better.

TheDoctrineOfAllan Tue 06-Aug-13 23:23:00

Always good to see this bumped.

Yes you do, Bullets.

StringBeanJean Wed 07-Aug-13 12:20:29

AMEN to that OP and thank you for your wonderful post.

I've been a single mother for six months now. It's really hard work but also incredibly rewarding and, of course,the alternative is so much worse. I am going to save your post to re-read when I need a reminder that I did the right thing and I can continue to do this. Especially like the bit about children being much better off with separate parents than living in an atmosphere full of stress and misery.

BeCool Wed 07-Aug-13 12:48:24

I love it when this thread is bumped and I get to read it again! Brilliant.

LineRunner Wed 07-Aug-13 13:50:23

Thanks for bumping this.

I am just beginning a new relationship, after two years on my own kind of getting to know myself again IYKWIM.

It's good to be able to read Reality's post and look hard at this new relationship as it helps to work out if this is what I want, especially with so many DCs involved.

I am watching carefully how he treats his Ex, for example.

Great stuff, thanks smile

kittykat10 Sat 24-Aug-13 09:55:58

It has made me realise my ex was a bad relationship as a friend he been good but as a bf he was crap, I paid for food when I stayed I contributed to bills when I could.
He called me names well not like the obvious but he told me I smelt I guess I was a bit nieve about it all.
Basically I've gone from an on line e abusive relationship . Ashamed to say naughty pictures sent to him and he was dominating , to name calling and used for sex after we split , a drug user which I accepted initially .
Hope this one nice :-)

pout Sat 24-Aug-13 14:40:40

This thread strikes such a chord with me. I'm a long-time lurker on Mumsnet, and the insight I've gained from reading posts on the Relationships board over the years helped me come to realise that I was in a DV relationship, however much my partner told me otherwise. I put up with so much shit and nastiness but kept going in some misguided loyalty that was actually doing our family unit no good at all.

I am ashamed to say that it took me a number of years to build up the courage and actually do something about leaving the relationship, and mine was a painfully drawn-out separation as we lived under the same roof for a year following separation. The best thing now is that we are both able to provide a healthier, stable and supportive environment for our DCs with shared childcare, and the positive impact on their confidence and behaviour is striking. I now live in peace in my own home without the sense of dread in my stomach I felt on a daily basis. I've read comments that this board can be voyeuristic, but without it I may not have gained the insight that helped me realise what I needed to do.

garlicbaguette Wed 18-Sep-13 14:21:24

Bump overdue.

YoniBottsBumgina Thu 03-Oct-13 19:00:15

Definitely, Garlic - and again! smile

MoreThanWords Sat 12-Oct-13 23:12:17

And again! smile

ThehighcostofLying Fri 01-Nov-13 21:25:49


BeCool Mon 09-Dec-13 16:18:08

Bump - for the Xmas season!

Locketjuice Mon 09-Dec-13 16:31:39


Ching Ching to that smile

LivingWellNow Mon 09-Dec-13 16:57:39

Very timely.

Karenblixen Sat 28-Dec-13 18:11:31

Bump - this must stay on my watch list!

Glad this has been bumped today. There have been some terrible threads over Christmas.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sat 28-Dec-13 18:18:57

Fabulous OP. I have read it two dozen times, but it makes as much sense as the first time I ever did.

NettleTea Sat 28-Dec-13 18:41:36

I agree, I was thinking of this thread today, and how I needed to find it and bump it. Its just shocking how so many people are caught up in this (and I know I served more than my time before I was able to get out - how I wish I had MN then!!)

musicismylife Sat 28-Dec-13 18:52:31


Well said, op, I will drink to that!

Karenblixen Wed 29-Jan-14 19:03:45

Bump again.

Lweji Mon 03-Feb-14 21:05:57

And again.

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Tue 04-Feb-14 03:20:44

Ah I remember this smile please tell me its in classics

I'm still sure it was posted cuzzame shock

Lweji Tue 04-Feb-14 03:25:21

No, not classics. Still in Relationships. And it's supposed to get to the top sometimes. smile

Dearjackie Tue 04-Feb-14 07:10:39

Thank you for this post I keep referring back to it. It helps keep me sane

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Tue 04-Feb-14 09:15:33

Well here's a vote for it to become a classic or a sticky post at the top of relationships smile

Karenblixen Fri 07-Feb-14 19:16:42

Another vote, obviously. smile

KnightswhosayNi Fri 14-Feb-14 12:47:01


HotDAMNlifeisgood Fri 14-Feb-14 13:02:36

How is this not a Classics or a sticky in Relationships?

I printed the OP and kept it in my wallet when I was steeling my resolve to leave abusive ex-H. It's a magnificent post. Much-needed for so many.

TheDoctrineOfSnatch Sat 22-Mar-14 23:31:44

Thank you Garlic for finding this for me, and a timely bump.

ThingsThatGoBumpInTheNight Mon 07-Apr-14 18:02:24

Bump grin

GarlicMayonnaise Wed 21-May-14 18:15:25

Overdue bump.

getthefeckouttahere Thu 22-May-14 13:54:42

id think it was a very odd relationship that contained no shouting at some point during disagreements. Each to their own though.

Spot on with the rest.

AndTheBandPlayedOn Wed 18-Jun-14 12:55:52


Frecklymum Wed 18-Jun-14 19:12:18


May I add, even if he says he is so, so sorry and will change, bear in mind that this is likely only to last for around 6 months.

It's taken me 23 years to realise that it's not acceptable to be called names in front of the children, told I'm fat and spotty, have ruined his life, been stamped on, controlled and manipulated and, yes, just not loved. I am in the process of moving on and this post has really helped.


ShakeYourTailFeathers Wed 18-Jun-14 19:26:21

I have not read this before. Very wise words.

Sylvana Wed 18-Jun-14 22:24:58

I read this amazing post back when the OP first posted it. I have read it many times since and refer back to it in my mind quite often. It's common sense. So much so that you assume everyone would know 'the rules '. Sadly, this is not the case. I have known friends / colleagues over the years who have to deal with the above scenarios in their relationships every day. This post should be made a sticky in Relationships.

CheapBread Wed 18-Jun-14 22:38:20


Everything I've ever thought when reading anything remotely DV in a post, marvellous. Hope it gives those that need it a big old shove in the right direction.

Jux Sun 07-Sep-14 20:01:06

I don't know why this tab was open on my machine, but I'm glad it was.

About time that post of Reality's was in Active again.

F0ssil Sun 07-Sep-14 20:57:48

I read this in 2009 when I was only 18 months out of an abusive relationship and I thought to myself 'it's fine for lucky women to think like that', like they were a different species from me. Now I've become one of you that believes that absolutely.

sus14 Sun 07-Sep-14 21:19:07

Thanks for bumping, this will help me enormously as I finally move towards leaving- like having a good friend tell you what's what so that you finally see through the fog. I needed this .

NorksAreMesssy Sun 07-Sep-14 21:34:55

Yes, about time for a bump of this EXCELLENT post.

Redoubtable Sun 07-Sep-14 21:48:33

Good fathers don't treat the mother of their children with disrespect


If I had one wish that could be granted, it would be that ex-H could understand how to be respectful to someone he resents.

It is so damaging to my beautiful DC to see how nonchalantly rude and disrespectful their father is to me.

rumbleinthrjungle Wed 01-Oct-14 17:57:26

Bump, a couple of posters could use this post right now.

NorksAreMesssy Wed 01-Oct-14 18:24:42

And another bump to help it on its way to those who need it

CatKisser Wed 01-Oct-14 18:26:08

So glad this has been bumped, there are so many very sad threads at the moment.

IPokeBadgers Fri 03-Oct-14 21:06:25

So glad to see this again. A few posters really need to read this wonderfully wise piece of writing.

Momagain1 Sat 04-Oct-14 21:35:05


RowanMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 07-Oct-14 10:04:23

What do we think about moving this to Classics? Or is it better left in Relationships?

AndTheBandPlayedOn Tue 07-Oct-14 13:27:36


AndTheBandPlayedOn Tue 07-Oct-14 13:32:52

Hi Rowan,
There are times when a thread comes up and it is felt that OP of that thread should read this so a regular MNer will bump it ( or link it-but I'm not that great with links).
Will it be as easy to find in "Classics"? (I am not familiar with that.)

beautyfades Tue 07-Oct-14 13:37:58

Love this. X

IMNOTYOURBABES Tue 07-Oct-14 13:38:31

Could it have a permanent spot at the top of 'relationships' ??

CateBlanket Tue 07-Oct-14 13:49:06

Most useful left in Relationships. classics is usually for daft stuff that some people find hilarious.

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