Can we have an intelligent debate about what 'marriage' means?

[sparkybabe]

It is no secret that my marriage is breaking up, but in the process I have been reviewing what I feel about marriage. I have been married for 17 years, and have 3 dc. When I got maried, I realise now that I was looking for someone who had a) good job b) good genes intelectually and c) someone I liked. Love did not really come into it, I suppose I knew I didn't love him, but I liked him, we had lots in common and as I said he was a good provider.
Anyway, thinking about marriage - its 'man-made, ie made by MAN! Why then is it so Man-unfriendly?
WHat do men want - sex, lots of it, with different women. It's in their make-up to spread their seed throughout the gene pool. Why do they sign up to be with ONE woman for life? It's not logical, but we are indoctrinated (men too) to think of 'adulterers' as criminal.

Women need someone who can bring home the food, provide shelter and safety, and impregnate them. The mariage vows actually benefit women far more than they do men. So why?
Basic human needs are
Warmth
Food
Water
Sex.
Why is ok to share 3 of these 4 with others, but not the 4th?
I am not religious in any way, so pleaase don't come on here saying well Christ wanted us to be monogamous and to come between a man and his wife is wrong. That is too easy. Why is it wrong? Why are we sooo indoctrinated as to feel that sex with other men/women is wrong? Why is it we feel murderous rage against the OW/OM? Would we be happier in so-called 'open' marriages? Why do we get so possessive about our spouses?

Intelligent debate please? I am interested.

[RubySlippers]

I wouldn't be happier sharing my spouse

Why do we feel murderous rage against the OW/OM - because there is often a trial of destruction left in the wake of an affair

this topic has been debated a lot on MN

[lulumama]

if you and your spouse/ long term partner are both upfront and honest about not wanting to be monogamous then good luck to you!

the problem is, for many people , sex is not just a physical act, but an emotional one too.

i think for many couples, it is not simply the physical infidelity but the lying, deceit, betrayal that goes with it

perhaps denying the existence of a wife or of the children, saying the marriage is dead when it is not . all those things are so very hurtful to the betrayed spouse

i would not be happy for DH to go out 'spreading his seed through the gene pool', he has done that with me. if he wanted to shag around, then he should not have got married !

as i said, if an open relationship is fine with both parties, chacun a son gout, but otherwise, it is the lies and betrayal couple d with the pyhsical act that rips lives aparts

once trust is gone, it is virtually impossible to rebuild

[sparkybabe]

Why though Ruby (ooh there are 2 of you!) -why does it leave a trail of destruction? If we didnt care if the dh goes off with another woman, so long as we have our needs met why does it upset us? why are we possessive about sex?

[Simplysally]

If a person wants to have lots of partners, nothing is stopping them but they should either opt for an open relationship or desist from marrying/living with someone under the guise of monogamny.

[WaynettaSlob]

Without being too contentious, I don't believe you can ask for a debate about marriage and exclude religion. I am RC, but am by no means a bible basher. I personally wanted any children I had to be brought into a married home. I met and fell and love with DH and knew I wanted to spend the rest of my life with him, and, if possible, have children with him. that made marriage a natural / vital step for us.
in terms of the partnership, I looked for love, kindness, humour, intelligence, friendship, and the fact it was all wrapped in a not-unattractive package made it even better.

Could I share my DH with another woman? No bloody way. could I get over him having an affair? No idea, and hope I never have to find out.

[Bink]

"Women need someone who can bring home the food, provide shelter and safety, and impregnate them."

If that is what you see as the unquestionable facts of what women need, then I am definitely not surprised that you think the conventional institution of monogamous marriage doesn't "fit" contemporary society.

[lulumama]

when people commit to a marriage and to children, they don;t usually expect their spouse and father/mother of their children to go off and shag other people with impunity

surely it detracts from the stability of the household, financially, emotionally, and physically

how many threads have you seen about the absentee fatehr not paying child support, giving up work so he can;t pay, starting a new family with teh OW and neglecting the other childrne.. that is destruction

and you are being naive to suggest it is simply just sex and should not have an impact

[Simplysally]

I've read some interviews with polyagamous (sp) families but it didn't seem that nice a deal for the first wife after she went through menopause and she saw less of her husband since he spent more time with the fertile wives.

[LynetteScavo]

sparkybabe - could it be an inbuilt (subconcious) fear that if the man goes off spreading his seed amoungs other women, he will be able to provide less well for us?

He will have to spend his money on providing for the other woman/women and thier children, and also spend time with them, adn not with us and our children.

It's a basic emotion of possesiveness, resultiing from the fear that the man may no longer be able to adequately provide for us.

I'm not sure I've explained this very well.

[sparkybabe]

Without being too repetitive - why are we so caught up in the act of sex? We have been told down through the centuries that sex with other people is wrong. WHY is it? If we'd been told for centuries that eating with others not marrried to us is wrong, would there be no restaurants?
Waynetta - I agree a partnertship is about trust, but we trust that the dh doesn't screw around. If he does, it is a betrayal of that trust. But we don't trust him not to eat with someone else? That is not TABOO. Sex is. Why?
I'm not suggesting that I want to go an sleep around, just wondering why tyhere is this taboo about it. It's a basic human need, why is it only 'right' if the other person is not-married, or married-to-you? Other animals don't beat themselves up about whether their last partner is still 'faithful'to them!

[Simplysally]

Ah now you are coming back to religion again. .

[Wigglesworth]

It's the way our modern day society is, just like it is wrong to murder, commit rape, steal etc. in our society. Basic human needs have been adapted and have evolved to form the basis of our culture and principles.

[CharleeInChains]

IMO - Sex with other's is wrong, i was brought up to belive and still do that sex is an incredably intimate act you share with someone you love not someting to do 'just to get you needs met' so if dp went of 'spreading his seed' i would feel incredably betrayed.

It's important to me that dp has the same views on sex so i don't think he ever would go shaggin about but thats why for ma an open relationship would be impossible.

[Bink]

The biological/patriarchal answer for the institution of marriage/taboo against adultery is quite an easy one, though: it is very straightforward for a woman to know which children are her own but that is not at all certain for a man, unless the production of children (& all sexual activity) happens within a rigidly socially enforced structure.

[lulumama]

as i posted earlier, it is to do with the emotions of sex and intimate relationships

i can eat a bowl of pasta with my male friend and my DH would not care.. why/ beacsue there is no emotional betrayal , no lies, no denial of the special relationship between me and my DH.. unless of course, the meal is a prelude to an affair!!

for society to have some cohesion and stability, most people feel strongly that a 'nuclear' family is the goal, a man or woman who is busy wooing and bedding multiple partners is not committed to supporting their primary family and relationship

[georgimama]

I can't tell you what marriage means to me if I'm not allowed to talk about religion.

You aren't going to get much debate going if you're only interested in hearing people's opinions about sex and infidelity.

From a biological point of view, human young take an immense amount of physical and emotional resources to raise to adulthood. And time. Monogamy makes sense if males do not want to risk expending all that time and effort on raising young that aren't theirs. It makes sense for women as they get to keep hold of the male who provided them with their children and have their assistance in raising them - he is going to be more interested in protecting his young and her than another male will.

[georgimama]

x posted with Bink.

[RantinEminor]

"Women need someone who can bring home the food, provide shelter and safety, and impregnate them."


"WHat do men want - sex, lots of it, with different women."

[lulumama]

have just shown this thread to DH, and luckily he fully agrees with me



maybe it is better and more honest to say marriage is not for everyone

[Bink]

By the way, my last post was to your original "why did men dream up marriage?" question

[Wigglesworth]

If men just went about shagging different women and putting them up the duff all the time wouldn't this end up with a really bad case of interbreeding and a very small gene pool along the line? Science....discuss?

[georgimama]

What about marriages where there are no children then? Or where there is no sex?

I think you are taking a very limited view of what marriage is about.

[Bink]

[RantinEminor]

I think you have a very old-fashioned view of marriage.