Unconditional love - does it exist outside of a parent-child relationship? Is it realistic to expect in a couple relationship?

[Twoddle]

I have been reflecting on "unconditional love" after reading a reference to it in another post.

A big sticking point of mine and my ex-partner's relationship was that he felt he didn't get the unconditional love from me that he wanted and felt he deserved.

The problem (I think) is that, although we all have our quirks and bad moods and, to a degree, these need to be accepted as part of our package by our partner/spouse, there are some things that are just not acceptable. I think my ex-partner's mum was (and is) somewhat codependent to him: she will do things for him without question, when I feel she should say "no"; she has pandered to him when he has been utterly, irresponsibly behaved and/or rude and/or disrespectful - fussing over him, loving him, when really, a foot should have been very firmly put down ... even if he is an adult! The problem with unconditional love is, surely, that it can border on codependence - putting up with any kind of emerging crap in a partner because love "has" to be unconditional.

Some behaviours, surely, are unacceptable; someone cannot be accepted for who they are when they display them - no?

So, while we love our kids unconditionally because they are our children, do we or can we actually love our partners unconditionally, by virtue of the fact that we have chosen them as our partners on the basis of some key conditions (their personality, values, looks, etc)? And then, if their traits or our "conditions" waver over time, is it not realistic to expect this love to waver too? I.e. it is conditional.

Hmm. Interested to hear others' viewpoints.

[PembsLass]

I feel I love my husband unconditionally. I don't think that it's something that happens in a snap but it's something that has happened over the years. This needs to be put in the context of the fact that I am married to an undemanding, unselfish thouroughly decent human being.

It sounds as if your dh is making unnatural demands on you. You can't demand unconditional love FFS! He sounds a bit childish and petulant tbh

[endymion]

I wasw thinking about this earlier too, after seeing the thread. Spooky.

I personally think that for me, unconditional love applies only to my children.

I love DH, but I do not feel that that love is unconditional and would not expect him to feel unconditional love for me. We have made a conscious decision to be together. People change and I cannot control what he does nor him me. And I wouldn't want to.

I don't think that that is necessarily a negative thing.

My children, well they are my blood, they are a part of me, and I love them unconditionally.

[Ivegotaheadache]

I don't think you can love a partner unconditionally as you would your children. To me that would mean that you would accept them however they behave towards you and regardless of what they do.

When you enter into an adult relationship you have to accept that there will be conditions placed on each person within that relationship in terms of behaviour, respect ect and if you cross a line then that love can be withdrawn.

Pembslass - it's brilliant that you have such a good relationship that you feel you love him unconditionally (I wish I did!) but you are able to love him unconditionally because he is the way that he is.
If he were to change and become an arrogant, abusive, utterly selfish man you may not feel the same way about him.

But that's what unconditional love is about (IMO) you have to love them regardless, and that's not easy and not healthy either.

[expatinscotland]

i think unconditional love is a very contrived, flawed and possibly dangerous concept that should be consiged to the same scrap heap as soulmates, 'the one', love conquers all and money makes the world go round.

[getmeouttahere]

"unconditional" love in a marriage or partnership rings alarm bells for me in that it implies that one person could treat the other appallingly and it would be tolerated because you "love then no matter what they do to you"

[getmeouttahere]

*them

[ChiefFairyCakeMaker]

I've been thinking about this too recently, but from the viewpoint of - why doesn't DH love me unconditionally in the way that my parents did. They understood me in a way he never has (and probably never will )because I was their flesh and blood and they could probably see themselves in me to some extent.

DH on the other hand just doesn't get me (after 15 years ) he always seems to say the wrong thing and make things worse. We're opposites in a lot of ways with very different personalities, and different upbringings. I just wish he understood me and nurtured me like my mum and dad did, instead of crushing my spirit. Is that too much to expect outside of a parent-child relationship?

[lilyloo]

loving your child unconditionally is very different to your dp/h imo

they can do pretty much anything and you would still love them

your dh/dp i guess has to tow the line more and time can only tell what love can accept.

[Niecie]

I don't think love for a spouse is or should be unconditional. I would love my children no matter what they did, I think, even if they murdered somebody or worse, if there is a worse thing than that. I might not like them very much but I would still be their mother and I don't think I could walk away from that.

As far as DH is concerned there are lots of things that I wouldn't put up with from him which would kill love dead. Even something like adultery can kill love and that isn't really that heinous a crime, is it?

Love is conditional to an extent on me getting love back again as well and in that sense we are co-dependent. I don't think I need the children to love me back for me to love them - after all newborn babies don't love anybody, they don't even realise we are separate from them and yet we still love them, don't we.

[getmeouttahere]

What neicie said.

[Twoddle]

Thanks for posting, all. I enjoyed reading your threads. This is interesting stuff.

My ex-partner has talked of the wonderful, unconditional love he receives from his mum. The problem is, I think she has taken her love to far and actually been unhelpful to him. Like Niecie said, even when our children do awful things, we probably will still love them - and my ex-partner's mum has certainly done that. But we would still state, firmly, that, "While I love you, I do not agree with what you are doing, and I will not support you in it." We would also not allow ourselves to be treated disrespectfully by our children, despite our love for them.

My ex-partner's mum puts him and his opinions on a pedestal (which he thus expects in a partner), behaves submissively towards him (ditto), runs around after him (ditto) and has temporarily housed him and lent him her car and been loving and supportive to him at times when others have put their foot down and told him where to go, on account of his behaviour.

This kind of unconditional "love" is ultimately damaging to my ex-partner, I feel (although he doesn't see it and reveres it still), and to the relationships he finds himself in, because of what it has taught him to expect from someone who loves him.

[AbstractMouse]

I know people have unconditional love towards their children, but does this work the other way? Do you have unconditional love for your parents? Even if they have been awful to you, as an adult do you still love them?

My Dad wasn't the best ever, and said some pretty awful things to me and was a generally angry and sullen person, but I still loved him (he died when I was 15). I had a good relationship with my Mum and loved her lots (she died 18 months ago) but my sister now says she felt neglected as a child and didn't love my Mother.

Just interested really, wether it goes both ways.

[Twoddle]

I suppose each family is unique and it is not a given that children will love their parents, but I think it is generally thought that no matter how awful a parent may be, it is easier to find loving compassion and forgiveness towards them than it might be towards a similarly behaved stranger. Generally, I think most people love their parents in spite of all their crap - so unconditionally.

This said, I wanted to tell my dad yesterday that I love him - on Father's Day - but bottled out when he started ranting about immigration and Social Services: didn't feel very forgiving at that point!

[bigfatuglybitch]

I love my husband unconditionally, unfourtunately he doesn't love me that way.

[Tortington]

hmmmm

me thinks it is not as cut and dried.

scenario

if i could always love my children despite them ...say swearing " you fucking ugly cunt i will go amd come as i please" then laugh at me - spit at me and slam the door.

but not like them - in fact hate their behaviour

does the same not apply if a dh said " yo fucking ugly cunt i will go and come as i please" - spit on the floor, laugh in my fce and slam the door
could i love him yet hate his behaviour?


i think in the first instance i would lock the door

i think in the second insance i would lock the door

i think in the first instance i would tryintervention - councelling etc

i would in second too

at what point as a mother do you let even your children to treat you so appaulingly - andstill love them

i think i have my limits actually. i think i do

i think my love has limits.

[Niecie]

Oh no! I had a great post all sorted out and Custardo has come and made me reconsider so I will have another go.

I think in the scenarios you come up with Custardo there is a difference between the love of a husband and love of a child.

You have created the child and therefore to an extent you create their behaviour even if, as they get older they have free will to do as they please. I don't think you can't just wash your hands of it, the link is always there.

That isn't the case with a husband. He is your equal, you don't have responsibility for his behaviour because you didn't make him the person that he is, his up bringing did that.

I really do think that I would take a lot more crap from a child than I would from a husband, no matter how much I loved him.

[Tortington]

oh yes

indeed - no doubt

maybe one would take a lot more shit from yor own child

exhibiting the mistakes you have made through poor parenting choices combined with social influences

however - i think - i have a point

i don't know what it is

but i have a line - i know i do.

i was researching something about eclared hmelessness from another thread and came across a forum by accident ( cant remember what iit is or link to it) where the parents were telling of the most horrendous stories

where their own children had beaten them, threatened them with knives and violence

walk all over them, show them no love or respect.

do vindictive things against them when they want to impose boundries - one person was talking about trying to ground her son

and he said " ok then you fuckng bitch if thats the way yo want it"

then phones ocial services and told them that he thought his mum was abusing his disabled sister

i am just putting it in there

there are limits

[Amphibimum]

loving somebody doesnt stop you not putting up with shit from them. if, god forbid, one of my dc ended up a crackhead thief murderer who stole from me and turned life upside down in my home, i would not put up with it, nor tolerate the behaviour. but i wouldnt stop loving him. not that he'd be able to do much with that love... it'd be something i felt but if he got that far down such a bad road, would he feel it anymore? probably not.

[Tortington]

i understand your point about seperating the sinner from the sin kind of thing

i truly do

but i could stop loving my 18 year old if he threatened my other children - or me - or beat me - or robbed me of my dignity and self respect.

i would stop loving him. i couldnt love anyone who did that to ME and Mine

which is quite diferent from him committing murder

i would still love him

[SummatAndNowt]

Depends what you mean by unconditionally. ds is only 4, but I suspect I will always love him as unconditionally as I do now, but that doesn't mean I will put up with any crap when he's older. I suppose it's possible I could turn out not to like him, or he me, but he will always live in that place in my heart.

I do not love dh unconditionally. I love him immensely, but, unlike family, we are adults in this by choice, by contract, and thus there are conditions, nothing that has ever been voiced or even thought about, but I know if he exhibited certain behaviours it would kill the love, and for some I would even choose not to love him.

[madamez]

I think unconditional love is perfectly understandable and fine when applied from parent to baby or small child (when they are older it may change a bit)but if you love a couple-partner unconditionally you are either mental or setting yourself up for all kinds of trouble.

[Molesworth]

I agree with what expat said. It's a dodgy sort of concept. Certainly not realistic to expect in a couple relationship.

(roared the sceptic)

[littlewoman]

I don't think we do love our parents as we love our children. In my mind, I remember discovering this, and actually telling my mum (shame on me!) when I was pregnant with my first baby. I loved her so much, even though she was not yet born and I had no clue what sex she was, etc. I think unconditional love is necessary to raise your children to an age when they can take care of themselves - after all, we'd strangle them after 3 months of crying otherwise, wouldn't we? I don't think this is something we can feel for anything other than our children, and I think it's to do with the survival of the species. Innate. Note to dp's everywhere, it can't be demanded.

[thumbwitch]

I agree that unconditional love is an unrealistic expectation in a relationship with anyone other than your own dc; and that even that would have its limits.

I think Twoddle's ex-partner was done a great disservice by his mum, it sounds like she has led him to believe he is next to a god and that all who know him and choose to be part of his life should bow down and worship at his altar of perfection (I too had a partner like this, long ago, no kids thank God). Unless he finds an(other) doormat with no opinions of her own who is prepared to accept his mum-induced mirage of himself, he is likely to be eternally disappointed in his life. (I am making an assumption here that, as he is an ex, he wasn't that perfect!)

[stuffitllama]

I thought the same thing Twoddle "you deserve unconditional love", was that the comment? I thought but does anyone?

I agree with what a few of you have written, and yes -- the idea that we have chosen according to a few conditions. What Custardo and Expat say is v thought provoking.

I think -- no we don't deserve it in relationships (am Christian so think we do get it from God which is generous enough).

But I do think children come with it.