alcoholic father...long story(sorry)

[babyinarms]

Hi. I'm a grown up child of an alcoholic father. I havent spoken to or seen him in about 3 years. I have DS aged 3 and DD aged 5 months who he has never seen.
I suppose I should give a brief outline of how things were.
I am one of two but my sister and I never discuss anything about the past, I think its for fear of upsetting each other because otherwise we are very close.
He is a very controlling, violent horrible man. He used to beat my mum regularly and the abuse with me and my sister was more emotional. He wouldnt beat us or hit us but constantly put us down, drag us out of bed at all hours of the morning to listen to very loud music with him and beat our mum in front of us.
Mum eventually left him after 21 years of hell, I was 17 and my sis was 20. Even though they split there was still contact and every now and again he would call, beat her and leave, just for good measure.
Contact ceased about 8 years ago but i would meet him occassioally for coffee, just to keep the peace.
However since having my own DCs I feel such resentment towards him cos i cold never do this to my DCs and cant understand how anyone can.
I made pact he would never see them cos he still drinks. Part of me is saddened that they will never know him and the other so relieved they will never endure what we had to.
I'm 34 now and still cry most times i think of my childhood...I suppose what i want to know is, does it ever go away or will it stay with me for ever?
Sorry for long posting but even feels good to get it off my chest.

[BrassicMonkey]

Hi babyinarms

I could have wrote that post myself. Everyting from your dad eventually leaving when you were 17 and your sis being 20 (my sis was 19, but still...).

Over the past year or so I've been dealing with my past and the consequences that it brought on me as an adult. It has not been an easy ride, but some of the revelations have been liberating.

Keep talking. Doesn't matter whether it's on here, with a counsellor or with a close friend...any nice person in fact.

[vixma]

This is a tough situation and confusing as you are trying to give you kids a great life however it sounds that you are dealing with your own childhood being ruined. My dad was the same and was violent to me also as I used to stop him from attacking my mum by focusing on me....it was not nice and my little sisters are still dealing with the visions of what happened as it hurt them alot. I am also a mum and my dad died 4 years ago. When we used to visit my mum although he adored my son I did not leave him alone with him at all and I still do not feel any regret for this what so ever. When he died it was slow we in a sense made up. However you are a positive strong image for your children and have aknowkledged what he has done is wrong, which is extremely important as otherwise you and your children could be part of enviroment which is unhealthy. You have done nothing wrong apart from surviving an aweful situation of which has made you stronger. I hope you can still have a relationship with your mum as it can be hard when you have to live with your past everytime you see her.....good luck and keep on being strong as you will have to endure this heart ache whenever you see your father and like it or not, he does not get what he is doing wrong, which is no excuse, he is an adult and has to learn this his own way.... goodluck again.

[babyinarms]

Thanks brassic...it's not easy is it?
some times are worse than others . For a couple of years i detatched myself and felt like it all happened to someone else but then i realise no this really is how it was!
I know i'm quite insecure and needy and i presume that has something to do with the past, I really dont want to pass my insecurities on to my Dcs, but it is a real fear i have .
I want them to grow up knowing how loved they are and want them to have the confidence i never did.

[babyinarms]

Thanks vixma. I have close contact with my mum, she is wonderful. Again we never speak of the past, again for fear of upsetting each other i presume.
What i find the hardest, is that he has never said sorry or shown any ounce of remorse for anything, it was always our fault(even when i was 5 years old) and probably always will be in his eyes. I think i could respect him if an apology was made.
Sorry you had to endure this too

[notnowbernard]

Babyinarms - you must be a strong person to have survived this

Do you think you would benefit from talking to sommeone, as BrassicMonkey suggested?

It might help you 'come to terms' with your experiences, and accept that what happened to you was not your fault and that you were not responsible in any way for your father's behaviour.

I'd feel angry in your situation, I think

[babyinarms]

My Dh is great but I dont want to burden him all the time. The fact is when we first met I spoke alot to him about everything but as time went by, less and less.
I think he probably thinks i've put it all behind me but I obviously havent if i'm in tears now writing this!
I think the anger is there but its a deep sadness really, very hard to put into words really...

[vixma]

its understandable...your a nice person, this comes across because you feel sad about the situation. You can't change your dad, only he can do this and it is wonderful you have a great relationship with your mum.

[babyinarms]

Thanks vixma.I know I cant change him but I wish he would just see things as they really are, but maybe his judgement is clouded.
He doesnt even seem to mind not seeing his grandkids, how can that be?

[babyinarms]

vixma, if you dont mind me asking, how did it feel to make amends with your dad? Was it a relief?

[vixma]

In honest, it was final...no help im afraid. I had decided a long time ago when i had my son that amends could not be made because he didnt see anything wrong with how he behaved...and bizarrly the affect he had on my sisters made me relise how wong he was. I wont lie as my confidence was low and he made me feel extremely dumb. He used to ask me capitals of countries etc. This was not my fault, he felt bad about himself and reflected this on me. I made amends with my dad on his death bed as he was indreadiby ill although this wasnt verbal...i just knew there was no choice. I wouldnt say it was a relief, there just seemed an end to an emotional battle as future interactions between us could not be difficult.

[vixma]

Its not that I am being heartless, it is just I had my own family and this was my priority. My sons happyness was more important than the past and I new what I did not was my son going through, this helped me to relise what he could miss out on. I hope this is not to over the top.

[MrsMacaroon]

While he is an active alcoholic, you should work towards confronting your past without expecting his behaviour to change or for him to accept any responsibility. Until he has recovered (and that may never happen), you will always be disappointed if you expect anything more...This is the hardest thing to get your head around as the adult-child of an alcoholic. Their drinking puts you firmly in the role of co-dependent as your behaviour changes according to what he's doing. His drinking/alcoholic behaviour dictated the mood of the house and this was obviously further punctuated by his violence. Although essentially out of control- he was in control of how you, your sister and your mum felt. When your mum left (thankgod!) obviously, part of that control diminished (hence the returning to beat up your mum- to remind everyone of his power) but the effect he has on determining your emotions/self esteem etc remains until you decide (and it sounds like you have) to face up to your past, get angry (you should be f*cking furious), start seeing things mmore objectively and hopefully work towards letting go. You don't have to let him back into your life to do this and I think it would be dangerous to be in touch with such a violent man...simply working with a counsellor, maybe writing a letter (that you will/won't send) etc would be cathartic. Hopefully, if you're open about how you feel and approach them sensitively, your mum and sister might be part of the process...My dad was an alcoholic for 20 years. All the best!

[babyinarms]

Thanks lads. Vixma so sorry it was too late in the day to make a difference, but as you said it brought some closure.You dont sound heartless at all, just sounds like you know what is best for your family now.
MrsMac I know i have to move on and most days I feel as if I have but Then occassionally like this week, I begin to think about things and how much we went through, I feel sad for my lost childhood(I know that sounds dramatic but I really had to grow up fast), angry that he is not remorseful or even aware of the affect it has had on us and disappointed that my DCs will never have a grandad to love.
Today i feel better, probably after airing things, it really does help to open up.
Maybe i should bring it up with my sis and mum, but then i know they went through so much that it might only open old wounds.

I also went through phase as teenager of telling my mum i hated her cos she wouldnt leave him, i suppose i could take my anger out on her, where as i couldnt with my dad.
I'm sure she really needed that and i still feel guilty over that!

[ally90]

What Mrs Macaroon said...

And you can always pop onto the stately homes thread.

[MrsMacaroon]

I get the impression your feelings of guilt are getting in the way of feeling properly angry and putting the responsibility where it should be ie with your dad and mum. Primarily, your dad obviously behaved horribly but your mum needs to take responsibility for not protecting you. It is sooooo hard to start realising that you were not in any way to blame for what you went through and your anger towards both your parents was valid and still is. I don't think you can really grieve for the loss of your childhood (it doesn't sound dramatic at all by the way- I know exactly what you mean) until you've unloaded the burden of responsibility. In an alcoholic family, the children so often feel like caretakers- unless the sober parent steps up to the plate and removes the children or the alcoholic from the situation. Your mum should have done this and as much as you love her and she loves you (I'm not saying she's not a nice person- just a person in denial), this needs to be dealt with for all your sakes. This is almost impossible to do without lots of support and maybe professional guidance (al-anon is great and counselling is worth the expense). My daughter and next child (I'm preggers) will have no contact with either of their grandads (my DH grew up with an alcoholic and violent father) so I know what you mean about the sadness that this brings. It is like grieving a loss but first you need to get things straight and acknowledge your anger without guilt. The guilt is what keeps you tied to the cycle of co-dependence.
I don't think this is so much about 'moving on' (which has a pressure of it's own I think- 'why haven't i moved on?') but being honest with yourself and your family about what truly happened, how it made you feel and how you want to move forward (maybe feeling like talking about it with your mum and sis isn't a bad thing would ease the feelings of guilt?). It's so hard and I'm going through this myself but instead of the violence there was low level sexual abuse, so you have someone to listen if you need one...x
PS I'm not suggesting you scream and shout at your mum by the way- just confront her about her part in the situation, once you have it sorted in your head- Toxic Parents by Susan Forward has loads about how to confront and also looks at the alcoholic family so well worth a read)

[MrsMacaroon]

I re-read your post and you mention that your mum did leave your dad eventually. This is an important point as she did the right thing but there was an extremely long period of suffering so it shouldn't stop you from acknowledging that- the damage had been well and truly done. Letting her take the responsibilty will allow you both to move forward, hopefully towards forgiveness, understanding and making your relationship even stronger.

[Bluebutterfly]

My dad is an alcoholic too, and although he never physically hit any of us, he was emotionally abusive and manipulative (as I think all alcoholics are). And, my mother was the stereotypical "enabler", so I have some understanding of what you are going through.

I think that it is very difficult to ever get to a point in life where you "forgive and forget", but I think that it is possible to accept that, through no fault of your own, you unfortunately had a very difficult young life and that it has left some inevitable scars. If you can accept this (and is sounds like to a large extent you have already) then you can start to move forward, knowing that the experiences that you had as a child did shape who you are to some degree, but they do not have to (and should not) define how your adult life will progress. The hardest thing for me to come to terms with was the fact that I could never change my father's behaviour, that he was unhappy and that his primary relationship in life is not me or my sister or my mother, but with a substance and there is absolutely NOTHING that I can do about that.

I think that it is absolutely the right thing to do, to keep your father out of your life at this point, but I understand that there is an inevitable period of mourning for the relationship that you have always wanted with that person, and that you will probably never have. Counselling is a good idea and I think that you also have to allow the notion that you are suffering from a type of grief to be considered.

Your own children have something better than a grandad to love (and that is not to say that a good grandfather is not a blessing); they have something that you did not have - a loving, positive and stable family - and as you know that is the single most important and most beautiful thing that you can give them.

Nurture your own family, mourn for your lost relationship, and know that you are doing the right thing.

[babyinarms]

Lots of wise words and good advice. I'm sorry i didnt post this a lot sooner, for some reason i feared the response I would get.
Sad to think so many of you are going through or have gone through this. Although it is a bit comforting in a strange way cos growing up i thought we were the only ones in the world living like this cos all my friends families seemed so normal and loving.
I do think alot of what i'm feeling is like a loss, probably mourning the father figure i never had. Sometimes i nearly cry when i see my Dh with our DCs cos he is so loving and caring towards them and wouldnt harm a hair on their little heads...so i'm really blessed there!
As for my mum, we were not well off and she literally had no where to go cos no one knew...so we thought, innocently enough. Of course people knew but it was never spoken of. She worked all our lives while he was in the pub and our nan (dads mum) minded us, she of course blamed everything on my mum....its just so confusing and there is such web of deciet, lies and cover up even i somtimes find it hard to figure out what the truth is.

[MrsMacaroon]

You could help figure out things in counselling and/or in al-anon... It's one of those situations with lots of layers that need peeled off. In facing up to it and speaking openly and honestly to friends, family, counsellor etc, you will make loads of realisations. I think the bottom line isn't blame- it's responsibility. You don't need to blame or defend anyone- just assign responsibility to the right people. My mum could have left- we had little money but we had a supportive extended family- but she never did... Now I can understand and empathise that she was in a horrendous situation but ultimately, my mum's decision (and it is a decision- people always have choices) had consequences on her children and she is partly responsible for that. I've come to terms with that, over time, but I can never forgive her for not believing me and taking action when I told her my dad had touched me inappropriately. Thankfully, you're not in that situation so I see no reason that you couldn't build an even stronger relationship with your mum by having some frank and honest discussions and exploring your feelings through counselling. It feels a bit like going backwards to go forwards but I reckon it's well worth it...already you're realising that there are loads of people out there who will listen and relate to your situation.
So glad you've not repeated the cycle with your DH- sounds like you have come a long way already!

[babyinarms]

Thanks MrsMac....I have come a long way i suppose. I found it very hard to trust men earlier in life but, it sounds like a cliche, my DH changed all that. He was everything my dad was not and thats why i fell for him.
So sorry you had such bad time of things but you sound so brave and seem to be really moving forwards, I really admire you for that.
Maybe councelling would be a good idea. I have thought about it in the past but chickened out so many times because of fear of opening up too much and not liking what i find.
I even backed out of a councelling course when i discovered you had to be councelled yourself to face your past 'demons'..i really dont know what i'm afraid of cos i know what happened...its all a bit strange...

[ginnedup]

Hi babyinarms (and everyone else on here). I had a similar upbringing to you (although my dad was never physically violent to us, but very abusive in other ways) and like you I buried a lot of things for years which came to the surface when I had my first baby. It was only then that I stood up to him and refused to let him see ds1 unless he was stone cold sober. He did this for a few years and we did end up having quite a good relationship during that time. In the end he got cancer and started relying very heavily on drink and drugs so I backed off and didn't see him for the last year of his life. After he died I went through tremendous guilt and had a complete meltdown, thinking I had deprived him of his grandchildren, not been there for him etc, so I went to see a Counselor and that helped me so much. It helped me see that his behaviour was down to him and him alone and that I did the right thing protecting my precious children from him and his toxic lifestyle. I still have bad days when the memories take hold but I have learnt to put a lot of the bad stuff to rest and not dwell on it anymore.
Sorry - I've gone off on a tangent here but basically what I wanted to say was that counselling is definitely the way to go. It can help you put the past behind you and make you see things more clearly. You are a mum now and you are right not to want your own children to have the childhood you had.