Should I have no further contact with my mum???? (long)

[Mikafan]

I?m not sure how to keep this shortish but will try. I can?t decide what to do about my mum (yes, sorry, yet another thread about bloody mums). I?ve not spoken to her since my birthday in December which she ruined for me by poking her nose in where it wasn?t needed and ended up making a difficult situation worse. Anyway, since then she?ll text me when she?s drunk saying she wants to make up ? I don?t, I?ve had enough of her and never want to see her again. My eldest DS1 is 15 and goes round for Sunday dinner with her every week. My DS2 is 8 and she?s never had the same kind of relationship with him as with my eldest, probably because he speaks his mind and isn?t a nodding dog which my eldest has a tendency to be (in a nice way) whereas she?s already started putting my youngest son down all the time with stupid comments. My DD who is 9 months she?s only seen 4/5 times and she?s not interested in her either because she doesn?t like my DH (DSS have different dad).

Its hard to justify how I feel towards her on paper because there are so many incidents through the years but basically both her and my dad are alcoholics though she won?t admit to being one. Dad has been an alcoholic since I was born (hopefully I?m not the cause) and my mum for the past 20 years or so. Family trips when they did take place when I was small consisted of going from A to B via pubs with my dad drinking and driving and my mum letting him. Once we?d got to B my dad would sit in the pub, the rest of us would go to the beach or whatever and go and collect him when we?d finished then he?d drive us home again. We had 1 car accident while he?d been drinking, and too numerous to mention near misses. At night I?d lay in bed listening to my parents screaming at each other, my dad throwing furniture around, then putting the record playing on full-blast singing along to god knows what, then that would fall quiet again, more shouting and door slamming until my dad fell asleep wherever he happened to be.

I could never have friends round to play because ?we don?t know what state your dad will be in when he gets home?. Parents evenings were never ever attended. No attention was given to me while I was growing up, it was all about them. When I had boyfriends which wasn?t very often given how painfully shy with low self esteem I had, if they didn?t flirt back with my mum she didn?t like them. Oh yes, and she?d try and make me look stupid in front of them.

I could go on up to the incident in December but I?ll take up the bandwidth of mumsnet to do so  Basically I don?t want anything to do with her anymore but don?t want a confrontation with her, I don?t do arguments very well and she will argue and its not worth the hassle, she?ll never see she was in the wrong and that she?s been nothing but a crap mum to me but I feel bad that my DS2 won?t have any grandparents at all though he?s not fussed about her either. Can someone give me some advice on what to do?

Thank you if you?ve managed to finish reading until here.

[needmorecoffee]

what an awful situation
You should do whats best for you and your children. Alcohlics destroy everyone around them, thats my feeling
My dad was an alcy.

[Mikafan]

but she has a knack of making me feel guilty - she does it all the time.

[smithfield]

Hi I think you already know the answer but what you are in need of is a bit of support/re-assurance.

SO, Yes you are 'absolutely' doing the right thing not having contact with this woman. You are not 'depriving' your children of their Gps you are 'protecting' them.
You should be proud that you are doing the right thing for them and for you (you are a unit).

If you need support you will find plenty here

Also with regard to the texts from your mum, could you change your number?

[smithfield]

Mikafan- you are feeling guilty because that was what you were trained/programmed to feel as a child. That way the toxic parent gets to act/treat you like crap, and you take the blame for it. Willingly.
The more distance you put between them and you the easier it will become. You are protecting yourself and you HAVE THE RIGHT do do this.

[Mikafan]

Thanks Smithfield. I have looked through that thread a few times but I tend to think that my childhood wasn't as bad as others on there so don't think I really belong there. There was never any physical abuse and I don't know if you'd really called it mental abuse either - its just the way it is with my parents.

My DH said he was shocked the first time he met my mum because of the way she was talking to me - at first he thought she was joking around with me but realised pretty quickly that she wasn't. The thing is, looking back on that day I don't remember anything be out of the ordinary so not sure what he's talking about.

What I do know is that she's jealous of me and has been for a few years. She can't bear to see me happy.

[smithfield]

Mikafan- that makes me chuckle;

'I tend to think that my childhood wasn't as bad as others on there so don't think I really belong there.'

Every single one of us on that thread have tended to begin our 1st post with those exact words.

And yes I totally relate to what you are saying with regard to you feeling there was nothing wrong, when you dh pointed out how she spoke to you...
For us the treatment/abuse 'is the norm', we are unable to distinguish what is and isnt normal.

I can assure you a mother that tells you to stick a knife through your neck is not normal. And is most definately abusive.

I can also assure you that you were in fact emotionally abused as a child (many of us on that thread fall into that category)
and emotional abuse can be equally, if not far more damaging than any other form of abuse.

There is a book by Susan forward called 'toxic parents'which has a good chapter on there about alchaholic parents.
Trust me the fact that they put alchohol before you and even risked your life for it, is abusive!

[Mikafan]

smithfield, it wasn't my mum that said the knife comment, even my mum wouldn't go that far.

I'm 42 years old by the way, and my mum wasn't an alcoholic when I was little, just my dad

I did look at that toxic parents book before when looking through the stately homes thread and again didn't feel it was appropriate to me.

You'd think wouldn't you that it would be my dad I couldn't forgive for my crappy childhood but I kind of don't judge him for it anymore, I'm over that stuff now though I still don't like arguing and can't bear to hear people shouting at each other but my mum has kind of taken over the mantle for the mental stuff. I don't really have any contact with my dad just because he's never been at home when I've been to see my mum, he'll be round the pub while my mum if a stay indoors drinker.

I'm also worried that my mum will come round to where I work as its only 15 minutes away from where she lives. She'll cause a scene and I don't want or need it.

[smithfield]

Mikafan- Feel a bit now at getting that wrong. I was trying to find your previous thread, the one referring to why you weren't speaking to your mum in the first place and must have linked to something else. Do excuse me.

See.... now I have guilt...typical child of toxic parent response .

[Dalrymps]

Don't feel guilty, she wants you to feel guilty so she dosn't have to feel guilty herself. Do what is best for you and your children.

[Mikafan]

thats ok smithfield. The incident on my birthday in December was her making relations between me and my ex worse than they were before thru her interfering. It was the straw that broke the camels back, I put the phone down on her after a screaming row and haven't spoken to her since.

Dalrymps, I know she does and it always works but I feel back for my DS2 as I said. He has no contact with his paternal grandparents so only has mine but they are worse than useless anyway but feel I should leave the decision to him as to whether he sees her or not but I don't want him to start feeling bad about himself like I did growing up.

[smithfield]

'You'd think wouldn't you that it would be my dad I couldn't forgive for my crappy childhood'

Well yes and no...your mother enabled his drinking so she has as much responsibility in this.

If your dh drank, would you;

a) let him drink- drive your dcs

or

b) not allow your dh to drive your dcs anywhere knowing he could not be trusted to do so without a drink in him, which would seriously en-danger dc's lives (sorry ally for pinching your quizes but they are great)

Just trying to clarify how your mum still had a part to play.

Regardless of my previous mistake Im in no doubt your mother is toxic, and I think you 'do' realise this which is why you shouldnt feel guilty about keeping ds away.

[Dalrymps]

you know whats right for you and your family, no grandparents may be better than ones that will make ds feel bad about humself but it really is your call, it's a hard decision either way. i stopped talking to my parents 2 and a half years ago, sometimes it's hard, they've never met ds, but then i remember all the nasty things they said and did and want to protect ds from that. good luck whatever you decide

[MrsMacaroon]

my dad is an alcoholic (albeit sober for 4 years, but an active one for 25 years) and my mum is your typical co-dependent/head in the sand/I've got everything under control type person...i don't think you need to go into all the 'incidents' (and having been there, I can honestly imagine) or justify your feelings to anyone. You are finished. You've had enough. That's the bottom line and you're absolutely entitled to feel that way. Some people put up with this shit their whole lives but other people get to a point and they need to make a change and take control. I think you need your self-esteem and confidence boosting so that you can tackle this head on...sounds like you already know what you want to do (I would never advise you either way- do what your instincts tell you to do) BUT you may have to deal with some nonsense and drunken high jinx (from maybe both your mum and your dad). It might be a good idea to take some time out (explain or not- you are absolutely justified to extract yourself with no explanation after what they've put you through (this is the first thing a counsellor told me after I did the same thing), get some advise (maybe counselling etc, talk to friends), get your head straight on how you feel and what YOU want. Time away from them will clarify your feelings and hopefully give you the self-belief that it sounds like you're lacking. If you find yourself needing to tackle them or whatever, don't get drawn into the manipulative bullshit and stay strong.
I let my mum see my DD once a week butother than that, we don't talk and I don't allow my dad near her. It's a horrible decision to make but ultimately, for us, it is the right one. Good Luck

[Mikafan]

Thanks everyone. I spoke to my DS on the way home today and asked him if he wanted to carry on seeing her and his reply was "only if I can see my cousin", my brothers daughter. I told him that I couldn't guarantee that she'd always be there when he went round and as he sees her at school he said he didn't want to go round there. I honestly didn't sway him into thinking that way, I told him that just because I didn't want to see her it didn't mean he didn't have to but he's adament he doesn't want to see her. Obviously she's going to think I've told him to say this but there's nothing I can do about that. I still don't want any confrontation with her. I don't deal with situations like that very well, I have a tendency to just burst in tears which isn't a very adult way of dealing with stuff

[Dalrymps]

well it sounds like it may be less complicated than you thought then, try not to worry about confrontation, regardless of how you react you are an adult and stronger than you think

[Mikafan]

My DS was very sweet. He asked me why I didn't want to see my mum anymore and I gave him a few simple examples that he's understanding inc. the fact that neither of my parents had ever told me they loved me, had never hugged or kissed me. He told me that was very sad and leaned over to give me a hug. Things are very different for my children, I tell them I love them everyday including kisses and hugs and take an interest in them like my parents never did in me.

[Dalrymps]

well done you, at least you've broken the cycle and are a wonderful mum despite your parents and how they've acted towards you x

[Mikafan]

Thanks Dalrymps, my parenting skills are about the only thing I've got confidence in

[smithfield]

Yes Mikafan- What a lovely mum you are.
Wish my own mother had given 'me' such respect as a child.

You are doing the right thing. Stay strong. Lots of luck.

[Mikafan]

me too smithfield I'm determined to do the opposite of everything my parents did to me and so far its working well

Thank you all for your help, I appreciate it.

[ally90]

Stately Homes thread...

From what you have said I can see:

Emotional abuse
Emotional Neglect
Physical neglect?

All abusive. No you did not cause your father to be an alcholic by being born, he caused himself to be an alcholic.

If your parents are confrontational you have options, breaking contact/divorce can be done by letter/phone/text/email. It does not have to be done face to face. This is to keep you safe from more emotional abuse. Because sure as eggs are eggs they will deny things happened or admit to smaller things but deny the rest/won't remember/say you exagerate etc. Just seen she lives close by, my parents are 20 min away. You don't have to open the door to your mum. She can shout at it if she wants to though . You can keep them away if you are determined to do so, treat them like any other abusive person you come across.

If toxic parents doesn't do it for you...try beverly engel. Divorce a parent is excellent, and I am on 'emotional healing' now which covers the 7 types of abusive parents.

Now your best off on the Stately homes thread seeing as you've just said the magic words 'I tend to think that my childhood wasn't as bad as others on there so don't think I really belong there.' And btw there are a few of us on there that were 'just' emotionally abused or 'just' emotionally neglected. All the same to us.

[Mikafan]

thanks ally90, I think at some stage in the next few days I'll be over for a visit to the stately home I've got a feeling things won't be as easy as I think. My eldest DS is going round there on Sunday and I've a feeling she'll say something to him.

[MrsMacaroon]

She probably will say something- which puts you in a tough position... you do have choices though. You could tell her (in person/by letter/text etc) that if she wants contact with her GS she will not involve him in any kind of dispute you might have (ie making snide and/or guilt inducing/manipulative comments). This is absolutely fair enough and better said at the outset if you do intend to allow her access to him. He's your child and therefore it's your call, not hers. She will be used to provoking reactions and responses in certain ways but you always have the option of not standing for it anymore. This is generally the healthiest approach, in my experience. You are only human though and this doesn't mean that you won't get upset or emotional but you absolutely cannot change the way she behaves and what she says. The only thing you can change is how much you expose yourself to it and your response (or lack of) to her behaviour. Focus on what you want for yourself and for your family- not what she might say or do. She'll probably do whatever it takes to get a suitable response (guilt/pity/anger blahblahblah) but if you're wise to this and either withdraw or refuse to accept it, you are left in a much stronger position. It's all very scary but I now look back and wonder why I didn't do this years ago. If she wants to see your kids badly enough, she'll behave herself- if not- it's her loss.

[Mikafan]

thanks MrsMacaroon, now that my DS2 has said he doesn't want to see her its only DS1 she'll be seeing. She's never been interested in my DD who is 9 months old and before I got pregnant when she found out we were trying to said that she hoped I didn't get pregnant by my DH otherwise I'd never get away from him . I told her she may feel like that but that I didn't want to hear it.

I feel much better for having made a final decision on the situation - kind of lighter, which is weird but true.

I love all my truly very very much. I sat with my DD on my lap this morning while she was struggling to breathe through a very snotty nose and wondered how anyone can treat their children the way my parents have treated me, why bother having children if your going to treat them like crap???

[MrsMacaroon]

It's amazing how some mothers can be so selective in how they show affection...Often it's easier for toxic parents to show love to a grandchild (rather than their own child) as the child's behaviour and character isn't a direct result of their mothering skills, or lack of. I think underneath all the nonsense she probably feels very guilty for what she has done and the ways she behaves and is almost using your DS to redeem herself. It seems it's not unusual for such a parent to lavish one particular grandchild with affection and exclude others...There are alot of threads about this that might be worth checking out.
I know what you mean about feeling 'lighter'. I felt really stressed and worried after first making the decision to 'divorce' my parents but at the same time I felt really exhilarated and more free. I'd done the thing I was most scared of and didn't fall apart. In fact- I honestly didn't lose any sleep over it. My siblings reaction to it was the most upsetting thing actually as they both believe my parent's lies. I've promised myself I'm not going to waste my time trying to justify myself to anyone though. I believe I've done the right thing for myself and my family and that's that.