Trust

[macdoodle]

I am new to mumsnet - feel the need to tell my full story to people who don't know me - sorry for long post but no one in RL knows the whole story and I need to off load - comments and advice welcome - few hugs wouldn't go amiss either ..
DH and I have been married about 7 years - we have a 5 year old DD - a few years ago we started a new business stressful and started trying for another baby....things got bad we barely talked our sex life dwindled (previously very good) and I put on a lot of weight and he drank a lot...I had pretty much decided it was over and was trying to figure out how to leave (he is very possesive), when I discovered he had been having an affair for 3 months with a blond bimbo 10 years younger than me with no job (I have a good job with a good salary and had pretty much carried us while he set his business up)..cue much screaming he moved out and I filed for divorce - he then came crawling back begging for another chance saying he loved me and DD and didn't want to lose us - I put the divorce on hold and decided to give it a go - for some reason I still love him even though he makes me feel like shit and thought I owed it to our DD and our past..
Then followed the worst 6 months of my life - he lied to me and the OW and strung us both along - now I am not defending him or excusing his beahviour but this girl is real bunny boiler demented type immature and manipulative and decided she wanted him at all costs didn't care about the fact he had a family at all - some I know is true we went away for a weekend to try and reconnect - she phoned him more than 50 times in an hour and sent loads of texts varying from begging, manipulative, to foul foul sexually explicit, lies about me - even when I tried to reason with her she continued to try and manipulate me ...she will never go away...
Then end of last year things seemed to get really bad and I threatened to take it to court he dropped another bombshell - she was pregnant (the one thing I had really wanted another baby) - clearly done on purpose but also he continued to sleep with her while asking me to put my wedding ring back on....she said she would have a termination and he continued to string her on she obviously didn't of course she had what she wanted....he told her him or the baby and came back to me...
I foolishly kept trying to take him back and see if we could fix it, I do still love him god knows why and now I find myself pregnant (by him before anyone asks) and full of mixed feelings - my longed for 2nd baby finally , don't have to see her baby and think it should have been mine - but also now feel we have to give it another go...but everytime we are together we end up fighting - he won't talk about what has happended or what will happen and can't see that he has to change to regain my trust....Pregnancy hormones not helping and just feel torn have the one thing I really wanted but my DD adores her father and how can I deprive this child of its father....I don't think I can ever really forgive him but am scared at the thought of finally ending this mess ...I hate the OW (what she has done to a family and innocent children) and feel sorry for her brat...I really don't know what to do aymore this has gone on far far too long

[MaureenMLove]

{{{{hugs}}}} Poor you, what a mess! Not really sure if I can help that much, but the one thing that sticks out from you post is that you don't want to hurt your dd by depriving her of her father. Don't you think that letting her live in this environment is hurting her anyway? It may be better to end things. Only my thoughts, but you did ask.

[Busybean]

OMG, how complicated, dont know what to say just ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[stargate]

am with kerrymum, you have to show him the door. is it not better to have two parents that love you but living apart than together and fighting?

big hugs too because i know it won't be an easy decision.

[VeniVidiVickiQV]

You really are misplacing your anger towards this other woman. It seems to me that she has been manipulated as much by your DH as you have.

[dionnelorraine]

oh honey, you poor thing. I really feel for you. I am with with rest of the mumnetters though!
Be strong, you dont need him! He has no respect for you and treated you badly. You need to respect yourself and have the confidence and the strength to give him the boot! You deserve better than him!
1 - You dd will be upset at first when/if her dad moves out but she will very quickly understand and learn that there is now a happier atmosphere in the house and she will still see her dad. Its so much better than living with unhappy parents. I have been there as a child and I was relieved when my parents split!
2-Just because you are pregnant it does not mean you have to stay with him. Not at all! Women bring up children on their own all the time and do a bloody good job of it! You sond like a lovely caring devoted mum and you will be fine. Again, Im sure their dad will still be there for them, just not living under tha same roof.

Do you have any family that can help you when your little one comes along?
Be strong, You owe it to yourself and you dd to not let yourself be treated like this!
{{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}

[MrMariella]

mcdoodle. Am sorry to hear of this, but have to agree so much with every poster here. Your family WILL be undoubtedly happier in a 'healthy' environment, something he is not offering. At all.

There is something longer term at play here, to explain why you 'insist' you feel the way you do about him. Hate to be 'analytical'/preachy here, but have you come across the term "co-dependent"? Your posting comes across v. heavily of it. If you are unsure what it is, google it sometime. It may make alot of sense to you now, and also for the future. IT is a pretty good starting point, in my humble opinion.

[essbee]

Message withdrawn

[warthog]

you absolutely cannot trust your dh. you've tried but he's not taking responsibility or trying. i'm so sorry

[obimomkanobi]

You poor thing. Look, you know don't you that you deserve so much better than this.

He hasn't just abused your trust, he has thrown it on the floor and stamped all over it.

And the way he has shagged around and manipulated you and the OW is exactly the kind of male role model you DON'T want your children around.

You need to put your big girl pants on and get yourself out of this situation. Look after yourself and your children, this guy will only drag you down.

[macdoodle]

Thanks all I feel like I have been over this so many times just feel bit blank today after yet another fight last night ...
I get the co-dependancy thing I think you are right but knowing that doesn't make it any easier to fix..
We aren't living together haven't since he told me OW was pregnant about 6/12 ago - but since I found out I was PG he has been coming round more and staying over - but just feel like we are sliding back to where we were with no changes at all...
I think he truly loves us and I certainly have strong feelings for him - neither of us seems capable of letting go of the other...
As for misguided anger to the OW nope certainly well guided and seperate to anger towards DH - she is a immature self absorbed manipulative little liar and will use her baby as much as she can to hurt me and manipulate DH I have no doubt - she had opportunity to walk away after a 3/12 affair with a married man and a small child but chose to stay and play games and chase him in ways unimaginable to most woman - I have nothing but disgust and loathing for her and hope she rots in hell I hope she one day suffers what she has done to us and god help me though I feel sorry for her brat I hope her child feels like mine has ...she has chosen this situation I was totally trapped by marriage history child business and couldn't walk away she could and should have and there is no excusing her behaviour (his either but I know that)

[MrMariella]

"I think he truly loves us and I certainly have strong feelings for him - neither of us seems capable of letting go of the other..."

Really? Soo, one craps from a great height on those you truly love, incl. the little ones.....and the one crapped on comes back for more, to have little ones crapped on as well?? You are sounding pretty disturbed, tbh. The co-dependency thing? Look to your own self-valuing....and stop letting your child(ren) be victim(s) of your husbands nastiness, and your conspiracy in their harm.

[macdoodle]

Wow MrMariella that is quite harsh - why do I sound disturbed - because my DH cheated on me got the OW pregnant and is wanting us to get back together...
Yes our behaviour is destructive I am well aware of that (I am well qualified intelligent woman don't really need pseudo psychological bable quoted at me)...but certainly I (both of us) put our daughter first and that is why I have tried so hard to fix this to try and salvage a relationship with a man who I have deep feelings for who is the father of my child(ren) - not sure that makes me disturbed (whatever TF that means) maybe a bit sad pathetic and desperate

[macdoodle]

YUp right and far more useful thank you...have been trying to get him to come with me to RELATE not necessarily to "fix things" but to try and get us to deal with each other in less destructive ways - he won't go
But guess I should go alone am still pretty angry and bitter almost a year since this mess started and need to move on in some way

[mankyscotslass]

Well, he isnt the first and wont be the last man/woman to have an affair. But I would say the fact that he was still sleeping with her while telling you he wanted to sort your relationsip out speaks volumes. He wants to have his cake and eat it. I would also say that yes, you are right to be furious with the other woman, but what has he been telling her? So he is just as culpable as her in this.
You need to have a think about what you really want, and i think you need to have counselling, alone and together. You need to work on your own self worth.
Your story brings back bad memories for me, my father had an on off affair for 2 years when i was young, my mum kept taking him back as she loved him and owed it to us. He OW was agressive and possessive. To this day i remember the screaming fights on our doorstep. They never resolved the underlying issues, my dad finally left. They took every time he came back as a "fresh" start, but he couldnt stay away from her and everything was always brushed under the carpet til it came to a head. My mum is a bitter lonely lady who has never come to terms with the divorce, resents him and his life (he is now i believe on wife no3), and blames him for everything that is bad in her life. I honestly belive that counselling at the time, while it may not have kept them together, would have helped her work through the situation.

[overdraft]

my dh had an affair 2 years ago. we are still together and are stronger than ever. Soemthing inside him changed after the affair. He is a different person and I know he loves me deeply ( something I never felt before). I wouldn't of ever taken him back if I didn't feel this way. Two years down the line I know it's not just a front on his part to get me back.

I am sorry you are going through this and I guess I am trying to say is it dosen't sound to me like he is sorry. For him to be sorry he needed to cut contact with this other woman completly. Change his number, never see her or the child again if that is what it takes to make it up to you.

Go to relate maybe with him. It sounds like he dosen't know what he wants and can't make his mind up.

As for staying for your daughters sake, Don't do it. Yes she will ask where he is and it will hurt her, but it was his choice to do this to you and her and you are not letting her down.

The best gift you can give your daughter in the world is show her self respect and show her what a healthy relationship is all about hun. You both deserve to be treated with respect and love. I beleive he does love you but he is not respecting you at all.

Big hugs to you I know this is the worst place in the world to be right now and I am sorry you are there.

Welcome to mumsnet by the way. You will get lots of support here

[divastrop]

if he loved you he wouldnt have cheated on you in the first place.

it is not the other woman who is at fault here,its your h.he's fed you a load of lies and excuses and you've believed them all because you want to believe he still loves you,and tbh i dont think anything anybody says on here will make any difference atall untill you wake up and realise you and your dd deserve better.

[mankyscotslass]

I agree with Overdraft in that if he really has had that moment of clarity, then things can progress. But he does not seem to have had that. From what you say he has done nothing other than mouth platitudes to you. He has given you no reason to believe him or trust him.
Aslo agree with the effect it can have on children, staying in a relationship which has unresolved issues. I ended up from the age of 10 feeling responsible for looking after my mother and being strong for her because i saw the hurt all this was causing.
He needs to acknowledge your right to your feelings and he needs to show you he means what he says....sadly that does not seem to be the case

[MrMariella]

macdoodle - it isn't psycho-babble. It's pretty plain. You've been 'intelligent' Mrs Passive whilst dh and this other woman get on with what they want. You have to do something about co-dependence, not just see it as a diagnosis, and leave it there.

Harsh?? Not really, given the situation.

[thegardener]

it's so easy to say what you would do in this situation as an outsider, it's clear you would ask dh to leave, continue with the divorce & concentrate on pregnancy and future together with your child(ren) but i can only imagine the sort of torment you must be going through, the hurt and betrayl, wanting to try again despite the facts - you taking him back whilst he was carrying on again with ow.

when i was in a destructive relationship before dh, i found it so hard breaking away as my head said no don't go back & my heart wanted to. i wrote a list of all the things that i didn't like & that had hurt me and kept it by so whenever i was feeling a bit wobbly i could take a look at it. i used to visualise a road junction we would be together at & i went one way & he went the other way. this might sound really silly to you but i found it helped me.

[maturer]

Honey there comes a point when you have to recognise a lost cause! you have done nothing wrong here, you have tried to do the right thing and hang in there for your marriage in the hope your dh would come to his senses.
It does happen speaking from the painfull experience of my dh having an affair 3 years ago- like overdraft ( by the way , hi honey!)- my dh treated me appaulingly,when I found out about the affair he took ages to stop seeing the ow but he did wake up- just in time and since then has cut all contact with her, put himself into counselling, and now goes out of his way to put right what he did wrong and cherish me and the children- he is truely sorry, took a long time to get there but get there he did and 3 years on we are still together.

However he turned the orner just in time, I'd reached the stage of realising you cannot make sone one make the right decision- you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink-and that's where you are now, you've stood by him prepared to give it a go because you love him and you want him for your family but HE now has to take reponsibility for his choices in life- he will continue to hurt you if you continue as you are.
I completley understand why you are trying to make it right- you can't quite believe the man you love so much can continue to behave like this and you keep thinking he'll come to his senses- but how long before he breaks your heart completely?

When you live this situation it is not black and white- you know you should not be treated like this yet you also know the love you've shared before and yearn to get that back, want to believe you can help him see where his priorities should be....but honey don't waste all your life on him if he's not taking the lifeline your throwing him.
YOU have done all the right things you deserve to be angry with him and yes with OW too- people often say that- the anger should be directed at him not her! Someone said to me she owes you nothing he was the one who married you and made the promises. Well I agree my anger with him was 100 fold to that with her but i'm sorry i think SHE doesowe me something- I'm a human being who's done nothing to harm her, she was acomplete stranger who crept into my life and tried to steal it away.

I was recently burgled and the feelings i had were similar to those of the time of the affair- the feeling that someone had without you knowing, without you having any choice, violated your private life, took things that were precious to you and caused unspeakeable damage in doing it- how dare they!!!! How dare she!!!!What gives them the right to treat another person that way? so I'm with you on the anger towards her front she deserves it too your dh deserves worse!

Look after yourself. You are a good person don't let them and their choices destroy your happiness- move on honey. you never know he may wake up one day but it'llprobably be too late- more fool him!