AIBU to quit my job in this circumstance?

[JoyOdell]

I've name changed for this as I think it's very identifiable.

I work in the public sector, in a 'part' time job that has me out of the house all day, 5 days a week. There is no room for any further flexible working - I've asked to reduce hours and been refused.

Long story short - I hate it. It's boring, it pays an absolute pittance for what I have to give to it and there is no leeway in return. It costs me to go to work due to the amount our childcare costs. I went back partly to help my Mum (she is my boss and was desperate for somebody) and partly because reading too much mumsnet made me worried about not having "financial independence."

We're now worse off financially, I'm miserable and feel that I'm stuck because if/when I do quit my Mum will be extremely angry with me, and this will cause a rift. I don't want that. I am an only child and have absolutely no other family, in laws are local and ok but we're not particularly close. I'm devastated at the thought that there will be, at best tension for a long while and, at worst, a full on fall out.

So AIBU to quit my job? I will, of course, give the appropriate notice.

[SolomanDaisy]

Of course you're not BIU. Your Mum would be being v unreasonable to be angry at you for quitting a job you hate which doesn't bring in any money.

[Middleoftheroad]

I agree. Yanbu. It would be your mother who wbu if she behaves that way. Why would she be so angry? One thing being unhappy but losing money too. Im sorry but it seems like a no brainer. Leave! X

[JoyOdell]

Because it'll leave her in a bit of a mess at work, and because she told me, repeatedly to 'be absolutely sure this is what you want' when I was applying, interviewing etc. Which it was, but that was when I thought the money would be better and I'd be able to continue doing the school runs.

[JoyOdell]

And also because, historically, if I don't do what's expected I get a load of hassle - usually passively aggressive stuff. DM doesn't understand the idea of staying home with children at all. I have a disabled DS, 2 preschoolers. I can (will) be continuing with OU study to go into the career I've always wanted too, when the time is right.

[NewLife4Me]

I'd have been long gone already.
Please don't work for nothing, all these people who do either love their job or are live to work types.
You never know what resentment may build up for the future, or you may wake up one day in the future and think just why?

[FantasticButtocks]

Live your life to suit you and your dcs not your mum. It was what you wanted at the time, now it's not. Your mum will just have to get over herself. It's not what you want, and it's costing you money. That is ridiculous. And if your mum thinks you should live like that, then she is being ridiculous. Ok, she'll be cross. Just let her be. If she says you are being selfish, just say yes, yes I am. Sometimes we have to be, we can't live our lives just to please other people all the time.

Good luck!

[JoyOdell]

I want to do that, I really do. But it will leave me all alone, with just DH and DCs - who I absolutely adore. I love our tight little unit, but I don't want it to be an enforced closure of my circle of social contact with family, if that happened I'd want it to be our/my choice.

[mellicauli]

What has your Mum got to be angry about? You're the one who should be angry! Sounds like she is exploiting you.

[Zaurak]

Quit. Your main priority is yourself and your family unit.
Leave a good handover and train your replacement if they arrive in time.
Your mothers response is her problem.

"I took the job on the understanding that the pay would be X and the conditions y. That's not materialised. I need to focus on our family."

If she starts giving you grief point out that it's an employers economy and that surely someone will snap her hand off for the job. Unless of course the pay and conditions make it not worthwhile... In which case she might go about improving them..?

[LineyReborn]

Your mum was involved with you getting a public sector job, under her?

[SandyY2K]

Did you put your request in writing and did you get a response in writing?

[Cabrinha]

If your mum is your line manager I am astounded that it was allowed. In my private company, we would move people to avoid that.

Your mum needs to get over herself though!

My only slight sympathy with her is if she did really push for you to get the job - and I mean reassurances that the relationship would professional, not pure nepotism - then I can see she'd be pissed off. And feel you'll make her lose credibility. How did you not know before you took it that the hours and money weren't right? Sounds like you took it hoping once you had a foot in the door that you could change it.

[Cabrinha]

What does your "part" bit mean? Are you working more than your contracted hours, unpaid?

[Cabrinha]

I just don't understand how you've only now decided the money doesn't make it practical.

It was it always less than the cost of childcare but you decided that it was worth it because childcare is a shared cost, not your salary? And because some public sector pensions are still worth having, and there was potential for progression, maintaining employability, and of course as you say - financial independence.

[SandyY2K]

Why was your request to reduce your hours denied?
There are specific reasons that a request can be legally declined and they need to be evidenced.

I'm a HR person and managers often try to just say no to people. They can't do that.

I think working is good for your mental health. So I can advise you further on that especially as you have a disabled DS and could use him as a reason to want a reduction in hours.

PM me if you wish and I can help with wording your request in such a way that it would be difficult to decline, without well thought out justification on how your reduction in hours would have an impact on colleagues or the service provision.

BTW guys, a lot goes on in Public sector and I can tell you I've seen much worse than this.

It very much depends on the nature of the job being done, although it's a situation I'd advise against.

[AntiHop]

Leave the job. You can't be held to ransom in this way.

[MumOnTheRunCatchingUp]

What does your DH think?

[JoyOdell]

Obviously some clarification needed, I'll try not to miss anything.

No, my mum was never directly involved in the process of my getting the job - she asked me to apply because it was an easy job to get back into the market. Beyond that she had absolutely no input and I was shortlisted and interviewed without her input at any level. She is not my direct line manager, it's a big enough department for her to be above that level.

By 'part,' I mean that although it is technically part time, due to unforeseen issues with transport (not my fault at all) it takes me an hour either side of my 9-3 hours to get there/back. It is 6 miles each way, it's not possible to make it any quicker. The hours were arranged to, in theory, make it possible to do this without wraparound care - but it's impossible.

I have not submitted a written request to lower the hours, I haven't been there long enough to do so. I have raised it verbally and been advised that, although there are similar hours in the office already, the department wants to move towards everyone working the 'core' hours, so my request was denied and would be in writing too.

My salary is significantly (20%) less than I was led to believe it would be due in part to the pro rata that wasn't explicitly explained beforehand, and also partly because of the extortionate pension rate, comparative to the actual pay. This has meant that the childcare costs are higher than my wags, which we didn't think would be the case. Yes, these costs are shared with DH, but they are massive - I have a child with additional needs, we have lost any help with this.

DH thinks I should quit. If I can't persuade the change in hours I'll be forced into this anyway, as our present childcare arrangements can't continue past October due to the childminder stopping her minding service.

Sandy I have wondered if I could 'use' DS's issues in the request and skirt around discrimination by association, but this carries its own risk of pissing off my bosses, and then the atmosphere would be horrendous.

[SandyY2K]

But what is the reasoning for everyone working core hours?

Is that because it provides a better service to the customer or service user?

Is it because there is insufficient work to do outside of core hours?

Is it because you reducing hours would impact on other colleagues workloads?

Is there a policy with a qualifying period to make a flexible working request in your place? Is it written down?

How much do you want to reduce your hours by? As they could look at employing someone else to do the remaining hours.

The reason of wanting everyone to do core hours isn't good enough on its own. It would not stand up if challenged.

Many managers deny a verbal request. Put in writing they'd find it difficult to back it up I'm telling you.

I've had managers want to refuse requests and when I tell them to provide the evidence, they can't. Or they want me to help get the evidence.

Having been a mum who worked part time when mine were younger, I don't let them get away with that.

In all those cases the manager concedes and allows it because they don't have the evidence. My word to them is.. if this gets to a tribunal can you justify it?

Is a request genuinely cannot be accomodate, then I'm happy to work with the manager on it.

It's not just the discrimination issue you'd use. Having young kids is enough of a reason, but just dropping in a mention of your DS and the disability will make them think twice. Public sector employers have a greater obligation to be flexible here.

It might piss them off but they wouldn't show it or that would be victimisation. Stand your ground.

I don't know if your manager is make or female, but I generally found women bosses without kids were the worst. And I challenged refusals to flexible working twice in two different public sector places and won both times.

They should have known better than to do that to a HR person wouldn't you think.

[JoyOdell]

Thanks, Sandy I thought as much, that legally it probably couldn't be refused. It's NHS so very clear flexible working policy and, in theory, the Trust is actually known for being very good with it. My change is to actually work the same total hours, but at a staggered time (by 30 mins) so it's not exactly much difference. There would be no need to redistribute work to other colleagues, anything I would have done in that half hour I will simply do in a different half an hour.

I'm still considering the request in writing, but that will piss off DM just as much as leaving - she doesn't like it when I get my own way over her. Even if allowed, it doesn't change the fact that I hate the job though! It bores me to tears.

[SandyY2K]

Just half an hour difference? No way could they justify declining that request in your situation.

I'd love to see how they could demonstrate that you the below and back it up with evidence.

Now I must stress that the needs of the organisation are first and foremost. If they can demonstrate your half an hour shift move would be an issue - then fine. I doubt they can though.

My manager in a previous place tried to say my request to work at another location one day a week was detrimental and would impact on the service.

Over a couple of weeks I made a note of clients visiting to prove it wasn't the case. I could log into my phone from anywhere. I used that and appealed.

Here are the reasons to legally decline a request:

planned structural changes

the burden of additional costs quality or standards will suffer

they won't be able to recruit additional staff

performance will suffer

won't be able to reorganise work among existing staff

will struggle to meet customer demand
lack of work during the periods you propose to work.

It sounds like you don't like the job anyway, so just look for something else and resign.

[Cabrinha]

If you're at all interested in keeping the job, how about cycling?
You could potentially cover 6 miles in much less than an hour.

Remember that high pension contributions are not a bad thing if they are for good benefit, which the NHS pensions I'm aware of still are, even though they're not what they were. I doubt it's extortionate, although it may be higher than you want to pay.

The main reason I'd leave though is that frankly it's ridiculous that a grown woman is too scared to put in a written flexible working request because her mum will have a hissy fit. You really need to break through that level of control and show her that she doesn't dictate your life!

This job sounds potentially useful - still a possibility for school friendly hours (a godsend!) and in the NHS there can be quite good progression, depending where you are. Which helps with the fact the job bores you! So a shame to lose that simply because you're too scarce to take a stand against your mother's stupid behaviour.

[JoyOdell]

Oh no I can't progress either. There's an opening coming up shortly and apparently I'm not allowed to go for/get it because I won't have been here long enough. If an external candidate applies though, they could get it with no previous experience.