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Reply to my narcissistic DF

(68 Posts)
WaterWorld Wed 01-Jun-16 21:24:06

Hi

My ideal aim with my DF who shows many narcissistic traits is
Very Low Contact (prefer this to total NC for various reasons)

I have recently switched positions in the family from golden child to scapegoat (on marriage perchance) my only crime - I am less able to ignore his unreasonableness now DH is here as my witness.
DF is prone to lashing out without substance, maligning us to anyone who will listen, expertly triangulating us against close shared relatives, excluding my DH whose only crime is not playing 'the game'. LYING x many. Siblings unenlightened and loving new golden child positions confused

SO here is the thing
Two weeks ago we tried to arrange a short day trip so that DS can see Grandad.
Grandad said he will come as long as DH does not.

I have said I will not support bullying by exclusion of my DH, entirely unhealthy dynamic for DS to see, so meeting offer withdrawn.
Slanging match ensued DF hates DH will never see him again etc etc. all goes quiet - two weeks ago. Think he hung up on me that time and the time before!

Today
Text from DF arrived totally ignoring my clear explanation of why this is not appropriate
"Lets meet, you me and DS (fair-minded kid age 7 - no diplomatic training) and try to find a way forward x"

My answers options
1 Ha ha ha ... no or Who is this? I am joking... but makes me feel better.

I don't want to ignore (politeness being my minimum standard or lie - his goto standard) but am wary of providing more than minimal 'supply' ....

Smilecherishdream2016 Wed 01-Jun-16 21:27:14

Completely ignore . Don't play his game .

mouldycheesefan Wed 01-Jun-16 21:28:30

Ignore.
No good can come of this.
Why on earth do you want your child spending time with this person who alienates and abuses your husband, and you?
I know it's hard, I am NC with my mother and she hasn't seen my kids for five years. She can see them but chooses not to as she likes to be a martyrdom. She speaks to them on phone.
I wouldn't be replying or arranging a meeting. Move on, life is too short for this shit I am so much better without the angst and aggravation of having my mother in my life.

sparechange Wed 01-Jun-16 21:29:28

What is your objective? To keep a low contact relationship (with or without your DH), to make yourself feel better, to try and get your dad to accept DH...?

Winding him up with a 'who is this' text will only make you feel better in the very short term, if you want to keep a relationship with him. If you don't want to, then you need to ignore ignore. If you do, then winding him up won't do anything other than bite you in the arse.

Firstly, what does your DH think of all this? Surely he is your priority over your dad? So his feelings need to be taken into account. Is he your DS's dad? Is he happy about your DS being used as the excuse to see you and potentially be poisoned against him?

You said you have your reasons for not going full NC... Are they important, or just that you want your DS to maintain a relationship?

spanky2 Wed 01-Jun-16 21:33:42

I have a narc mother. It will always be what he wants you and your ds are his narcissistic supply. He will do anything to get what he wants no matter how much damage he inflicts on you, your dh and most importantly your ds. My ds2 is still recovering from his relationship with my mother. We went nc nearly three years ago. I would advise no contact. Never see him again. But realistically it's up to you. He's your dad. But from my experience it won't end well.

magoria Wed 01-Jun-16 21:33:43

So he is basically ignoring what you said about excluding your DH (because he wasn't brought up with this disfunctional family so won't accept it) and is trying to get exactly what he wants.

Simply repeat what you have said before.

You are not happy for DH to be excluded so unless all of you go, none of you will.

Short and simple. Don't argue simply repeat over and over.

titchy Wed 01-Jun-16 21:36:36

Agree just restate your position: 'As I said last month we will not be meeting up without David being present. Do let me know if you are available'. (Or whatever your dh's name is. Or maybe stick with David and confuse him!)

WaterWorld Wed 01-Jun-16 21:38:18

DH is supportive and yes DS's dad.
DS desperate to see Grandad.
We have an agreement that very low contact and only on neutral territory with both of us present.
Why keep contact? Many reasons including I loose all my family if I go NC with DF. He is classic all contact goes through him and everyone is trained in this not just me cousins, second cousins, aunts, uncles, siblings!!!!
If I give in invitation almost without fail they will discuss with him before me!!

WaterWorld Wed 01-Jun-16 21:38:59

titchy grin grin

WaterWorld Wed 01-Jun-16 21:44:15

How about the below, perhaps I could simply come up with a sentence for any time we are approached - sometimes by a flying monkey sometimes more recently by DF himself.

I don't feel any different from when we last spoke, do you? Let me know when you feel ready for happy, trouble free times with all of us and we can discuss meeting up at that point.

Context, with thanks, for those of you supporting me
The proposed meeting is in our home town 100miles from DF house but he is trying to set location and invite guests ... essentially its in a counter manoeuvre to the offer I made - apparently siblings from 300 miles aways are due along!

WaterWorld Wed 01-Jun-16 21:49:31

mouldycheese
How do you manage the phone calls? Do
you supervise what is said? What would you do if she tried to arrange a meet up?

wherearemymarbles Wed 01-Jun-16 22:19:32

Its a game to him.

Hi Dad, great so you chaned your mind about (insert hisbands name) being present.

We all look forward to seeing you.

He will probably either back out or say he doesnt want your husband there.

In which case you can reply with
'I will never change my mind on this so i suggest you grow up if you want to see your grandson again'

WaterWorld Wed 01-Jun-16 22:27:32

marbles I like this idea I think I can work with that, thank you

RaeSkywalker Wed 01-Jun-16 22:35:19

Honestly, regardless of whether your father condescends to have your DH there, I wouldn't take your DS along, especially if you think things might be hashed out/ discussed. I'd only reintroduce your DS if/ when things were calm and boundaries had been established- which sounds unlikely to be honest. Please don't think I'm suggesting playing games using your son- I'm not. I just think things could get nasty and it's not good for him to be around that.

RaeSkywalker Wed 01-Jun-16 22:39:09

My MIL is a narc and we are unfortunately NC at present. I'm pregnant with DC1. The plan for if we decide to initiate contact again is that DH and I would see her alone to begin with, then maybe introduce her to the baby, whilst making it clear that any unkind/ manipulative comments towards any of us would result in us removing ourselves from the situation immediately and calmly.

WaterWorld Wed 01-Jun-16 22:57:41

I'm in agreement Rae
Good luck with your own MIL

DH and I just discussing.
We agreed that DF behaviour has ramped up way above our ability to humour him to keep the peace and he needs to de-escalate a long way before DS is in touch with him if at all.

mummyto2monkeys Thu 02-Jun-16 04:03:08

Please continue to support your husband, I have been in your dh's position with my narcissist in laws. We stood strong as a family, I am so grateful for that. We were honest with our dc, we said 'Grandma and Grandpa had fallen out with Mummy and Daddy, it was a grown up issue and absolutely nothing to do with them, they are not to blame in any way. Sometimes grown ups get angry at each other and they have to spend time apart. Grandma and Grandpa love them very much, and they hadn't fallen out with them, just Mummy and Daddy.'

Children are more perceptive than we give them credit for. My children were obviously upset, but it soon became clear that our family as a whole was happier and they felt safer now that the angry people had stopped screaming abuse down the phone.

Aussiebean Thu 02-Jun-16 04:37:10

'Hi dad. Sorry. Me, dh and ss aren't available then. Let me know another time you can do and I will check with dh'.

Two and play at the ignoring the others wishes game.

Aussiebean Thu 02-Jun-16 04:37:45

Ds. Sorry autocorrect

AttilaTheMeerkat Thu 02-Jun-16 07:03:48

I doubt very much that your DS is actually that desperate to meet his narc grandfather really. Is that really you thinking that he would like to see granddad at some point, are you still trying to get your dad's approval even as an adult?.

Its difficult for you to get your head around as well because you've previously been the golden child (itself a role not without price).

Many adult children of narcissists do persist with the fantasy notion that somehow their narc parent is going to be better behaved around their grandchild/ren. It does not happen, they simply get used as narcissistic supply as well. It is also painful to watch a narcissist interact with their grandchild mainly because there is no interaction. The best thing you can do for you son here is for him to have no relationship whatsoever with your dad.

What you have at present is not working; your father still tries to ignore any boundary you care to set him. That was always going to happen.
The flying monkeys need to be ignored too; they are also not acting in your best interests here either. Have they ever asked you properly for your side of things; I think not.

Your reasons for maintaining contact are also not good ones either. If they all sided with your dad as a result of you going no contact due to his actions it says far more about them than it would you.

Drop the rope he keeps on holding out to you; these people like a fight and always want the last word. Do not therefore keep in engaging in such conversations with your dad, engaging at all with such people only invites more bile. Any interaction you give him is supply.

WaterWorld Thu 02-Jun-16 07:30:19

Hi Attila "It is also painful to watch a narcissist interact with their grandchild mainly because there is no interaction."
Is ringing some alarm bells with me ... DF will be very intense with DS and then very intense with well nothing/anything else really moments later - present but not present. Am I seeing my little boy fruitlessly desperate to please his GF rather than actually wanting to just see him/be with him if you see what I mean?

Hmmmmmmmm if so then I can't go with 'grown ups fall out but we all love you' for DS can I, because the whole problem is its not love from a narc. Anther lightbulb going off in my head.
x

AttilaTheMeerkat Thu 02-Jun-16 07:39:14

Hi Attila "It is also painful to watch a narcissist interact with their grandchild mainly because there is no interaction."
Is ringing some alarm bells with me ... DF will be very intense with DS and then very intense with well nothing/anything else really moments later - present but not present. Am I seeing my little boy fruitlessly desperate to please his GF rather than actually wanting to just see him/be with him if you see what I mean?

Yes to the last sentence; he has also seen how you as his mother seek out your dad's approval.

Narcissistic grandparents make out for being deplorably bad as grandparent figures; they often over value or under value the relationship with their grandchild. Honestly water, the best thing you can do for your son is for him and you as his parents to keep well away from your dad and for you all as a family not to have any sort of relationship with him.

It is imperative to let yourself know that, without profound evidence to the contrary, your narcissist parent is a narcissist still. You must let yourself know for a fact that your narc parent can not be trusted with your most precious responsibility, your children. If you allow contact between your children and your narc parent it must never be out of sight. Never for a moment leave your child alone with this serial abuser. They only need a few moments of alone time to inflict damage. A whisper, an insinuation, a pinch, a look. If you consider yourself a responsible parent you will never, ever leave your child alone with your narc parent. Ever.
The damage that can be done happens right in front of your very eyes (that above is also addressed to RaeSkywalker).

schlong Thu 02-Jun-16 10:45:59

I was amazed and overawed when my 5 yo ds carried on his way nonchalantly after I'd pointed out his estranged toxic gm (my mil) talking to his dad behind us after bumping into us casually in the street. I asked him whether he wanted to speak to her and he just went: "nope". As calm as a cucumber and wise as fuck. Long winded way of saying kids don't give a shiny shit about toxic relatives and we as adult children still mired in FOG care MUCH more. (In this case his dad who actually allowed himself to be physically stopped by her to feign interest in our dd who he was

schlong Thu 02-Jun-16 10:46:44

holding.

kennypppppppp Thu 02-Jun-16 10:52:43

to cut a long story short - if my mother ever tried to make contact with me i'd ignore. if it was physical contact i'd phone the police. my children obviously do not see her and i've explained why and i've advised them not to get in contact with her even if i die or they're 18 etc etc.

from my experience it's about protecting yourself and subsequently your chidlren, becuase if you're okay and in control (ish) then you can function fully (sounds a bit garbled but am pretending to multitask) xx

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