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Marriage crisis point

(73 Posts)
FoofooLeSnoo Sun 29-May-16 22:08:17

Im really reeling at the moment. On Thursday (my birthday) I opened some post of my dh,'s as I thought it was my Amazon package. This is something I do routinely as we order a lot of stuff, he's never been too fussed about it before. Long story cut short, I found he has lied to me over a big issue that I had issued an ultimatum over some years back.
Anyway we had the mother of all rows ending with him walking out on my birthday just an hour before my parents were coming for dinner! He stayed overnight at his mates.
He's come back for now but we are both absolutely furious and he has said he feels that our marriage is over, and there is no point going for counselling. The last few days have been hell as we have two small DC. He is so cold and hostile towards me and it's complicated by the fact he is bipolar 2 and not stable mood wise. He is so negative and his anger towards me tonight quite shocked me.
I'm not sure why I'm posting this but I'm just getting it out I think. I'm struggling a bit with it all.

FoofooLeSnoo Sun 29-May-16 22:20:43

I'm wondering whether I should have posted this on mental health as I think it's got a fair bit to do with his illness.

concertplayer Sun 29-May-16 22:29:30

Obviously things have been brewing for a while and now reached
boiling point perhaps?
Is he taking his medication? If not he may not realise how he appears.
I do not know what the big issue is so hard to advise.
I would get counselling for yourself.
Remember all marriages go through some kind of difficulties at some
point. When people are hurt they want to inflict the hurt back and so
make threats eg we are finished etc (which they may regret later}

FoofooLeSnoo Sun 29-May-16 22:34:55

Hi Chris thanks for your response, I really need support this evening! He has been missing doses of his medication actually which is really not helpful. It's just so awful and I'd be lying if I said I didn't wonder if I'd be better off without him. If it wasn't for the children I know I would have given up. It's terribly sad though, some minutes I feel furious and want to kick him out, the next minute I'm terrified about him leaving.

FoofooLeSnoo Tue 31-May-16 16:46:23

Hello I'm not sure this is the done thing but I wanted to bump this to get some more points of view on my situation. Things have moved on a bit. We had a talk through on Sunday which resulted in him refusing to apologise for anything, and full on raging at me for suggesting counselling and generally being extremely unpleasant to me. He said it didn't feel ready to talk and that I pushed him to talk while he is still angry. Last night we did dtd, and I really felt like we still have a connection. But the anger I feel for what he's put me through is not going away. How do we move on from this? Or should I just tell him to go. But what about our poor children, I'm so confused

loobyloo1234 Tue 31-May-16 16:59:02

Isn't it a bit hard to give advice when we don't know what your DH has actually gone behind your back with?

Kenduskeag Tue 31-May-16 17:02:27

There's not much detail here. What was in the package? Evidence of an affair? Is he a criminal? What ultimatum did you set him? How 'badly' did he break it?

You 'dtd' right after he 'raged' at you and was 'extremely unpleasant'? Well that's confusing.

From what you have said, he's 'raging', 'bipolar', 'unmedicated', 'aggressive', has demanded a divorce, refused counselling and said your marriage is over, so I'm not really sure what else there is to add. Show him the door. He sounds dreadful and a very poor example for your children. They don't need to live with such aggression.

TheNaze73 Tue 31-May-16 17:11:43

Other posters are right, appreciate you may not want to spell out what had happened previously but, there's not enough context here. Didn't just want to read & run

CrepeDeChineWag Tue 31-May-16 17:15:06

How is it possible to have sex with someone when you are angry, nah, furious with them?

FoofooLeSnoo Tue 31-May-16 17:38:25

Sorry I guess that last post was a bit rambling and vague. The package contained a legal high drug which he bought to take at a big party that's coming up. The ultimatum I gave two years ago after his bipolar diagnosis was that if I ever found out he was doing drugs that would be a deal breaker. I was worried that with the bipolar drugs he's on it would be stupid and irresponsible to say the least.
To be honest 90%,of the time he is a hard working a responsible father and a good, supportive husband but our relationship has had an awful lot of hard issues to deal with like bereavements, mental breakdown, and all the usual difficulties raising 2 kids. It's taken its toll on us.
The drug taking is a once in a blue moon event, say once every year or so, certainly not a regular thing.

FoofooLeSnoo Tue 31-May-16 17:42:28

Also this raging was verbal, not physical and the kids were not here. Not that that excuses it of course. He is back to taking medication now, having missed about 3 days worth.
He came back on the day after he left, we tried to talk but he wasn't responsive. Yesterday, 4 days after the big row, we just started to be a bit more affectionate and it went from there.
The issues have been shelved for now I suppose, I know that's not healthy!

TheNaze73 Tue 31-May-16 17:58:14

That makes total sense OP. In a sentence, don't settle for second best

PacificDogwod Tue 31-May-16 18:02:41

IMO there are (at least) 3 issues here: taking recreational mind-altering substances and NOT taking medical mind-altering substances AND lying about at least one of them.
Never mind the verbal abuse….

Don't 'shelve' things; it's just fester and make you or both of you more resentful.
I would insist on some counselling - his refusal to give that a go would be my deal breaker tbh.

Of course children make the situations more complex and far less easy to simply LTB, but equally children do get damaged in unhealthy relationships.
I do hope you find a way to talk and LISTEN to each other.

holdontoyourbutts Tue 31-May-16 18:03:51

What's your gut telling you?

He broke your (completely justified and with bloody good reason) ultimatum, refuses to apologise or speak to you about it and seems to have buried his head in the sand. That's not healthy and that isn't part of being in partnership with someone.

FoofooLeSnoo Tue 31-May-16 18:07:56

I know you're probably right, but he really is a good man, ,(I know how that sounds!) I'm no mug, as I keep telling my poor mother who has been helping me through this. I just don't think it would help any of us for him to leave. The kids, him and me would all be bloody miserable, I know we would.

AnotherEmma Tue 31-May-16 18:12:03

It is possible to be mentally ill without being abusive.
It is possible to be abusive without being mentally ill.
But it sounds like he is both.

There will probably be people who argue that you should stand by him and support him with his mental health issues. But I disagree. If he is also abusive (which he is) then you don't have to put up with it. His illness may explain it but it doesn't excuse it. And you are not the right person to help him. He needs professional help. And in the meantime you need to separate, to allow yourself breathing space and to see whether he will genuinely change (I doubt he will) before you decide whether to take him back (I don't think you should).

AnotherEmma Tue 31-May-16 18:16:27

MENTALLY ILL OR ADDICTED ABUSER

This last category is not actually separate from the others; an abusive man of any of the aforementioned styles can also have psychiatric or substance-abuse problems, although the majority do not. Even when mental illness or addiction is a factor, it is not the cause of a man's abuse of his partner, but it can contribute to the severity of his problem and his resistance to change. When these additional problems are present, it is important to be aware of the following points:

1. Certain mental illnesses can increase the chance that an abuser will be dangerous and use physical violence. These include paranoia, severe depression, delusions or hallucinations (psychosis), obsessive-compulsive disorder, and antisocial personality disorder known as psychopathy or sociopathy). These psychiatric conditions also make it next to impossible for an abuser to change, at least until the mental illness has been brought under control through therapy and/or medication, which can take years. Even if the mental illness is properly treated, his abusiveness won't necessarily change.

2. An abuser's reactions to going on or off medication are unpredictable. A woman should take extra precautions for her safety at such a time. Abusers tend to go off medication before long—I have had few clients who were consistent and responsible about taking their meds in the long term. They don't like the side effects, and they are too selfish to care about the implications of the mental illness for their partners or children.

3. The potential danger of a mentally ill abuser has to be assessed by looking at the severity of his psychiatric symptoms in combination with the severity of his abuse characteristics. Looking at his psychiatric symptoms alone can lead to underestimating how dangerous he is.

4. Antisocial personality disorder is present in only a small percentage of abusers but can be important. Those who suffer from this condition lack a conscience and thus are repeatedly involved in behaviors that are harmful to others. Some signs of this condition include: (a) He started getting into illegal behavior when he was still a teenager; (b) his dishonest or aggressive behavior involves situations unrelated to his partner, rather than being restricted to her; (c) he periodically gets into trouble at workplaces or in other contexts for stealing, threatening, or refusing to follow instructions and is likely to have a considerable criminal record by about age thirty, though the offenses may be largely minor ones; (d) he is severely and chronically irresponsible in a way that disrupts the lives of others or creates danger; and (e) he tends to cheat on women a lot, turn them against each other, and maintain shallow relationships with them. The psychopath's physical violence is not necessarily severe, contrary to the popular image, but he may be very dangerous nonetheless. Antisocial personality disorder is very difficult to change through therapy, and there is no effective medication for treating it. It is highly compatible with abusiveness toward women.

5. Those who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder have a highly distorted self-image. They are unable to accept that they might have faults and therefore are unable to imagine how other people perceive them. This condition is highly compatible with abusiveness, though it is present in only a small percentage of abusive men. Clues to the presence of this disorder include: (a) Your partner's self-centeredness is severe, and it carries over into situations that don't involve you; (b) he seems to relate everything back to himself; and (c) he is outraged whenever anyone criticizes him and is incapable of considering that he could ever be anything other than kind and generous. This disorder is highly resistant to therapy and is not treatable with medication. The abuser with this disorder is not able to change substantially through an abuser program either, although he sometimes makes some minor improvements.

6. Many abusers who are not mentally ill want women to think that they are, in order to avoid responsibility for their attitudes and behavior.

Substance abuse, like mental illness, does not cause partner abuse but can increase the risk of violence. Like the mentally ill abuser, the addicted abuser doesn't change unless he deals with his addiction, and even that is only the first step. Chapter 8 examines the role that substances play in partner abuse.

The attitudes driving the mentally ill or addicted batterer are the same as those of other abusers and will likely follow the pattern of one of the nine styles described above. In addition, the following attitudes tend to be present:

• I am not responsible for my actions because of my psychological or substance problems.

• If you challenge me about my abusiveness, you are being mean to me, considering these other problems I have. It also shows that you don't understand my other problems.

• I'm not abusive, I'm just———(alcoholic, drug addicted, manic-depressive, an adult child of alcoholics, or whatever his condition may be).

• If you challenge me, it will trigger my addiction or mental illness, and you'll be responsible for what I do.

^ This is from the Abuser Profiles thread (which quotes directly from "Why does he do that?" by Lundy Bancroft).

AnotherEmma Tue 31-May-16 18:24:48

"We had a talk through on Sunday which resulted in him refusing to apologise for anything, and full on raging at me for suggesting counselling and generally being extremely unpleasant to me. He said it didn't feel ready to talk and that I pushed him to talk while he is still angry."

And you had sex with him the following day?! shock

What you describe is classic abusive behaviour. He is blaming you for everything including his own angry reaction.

KindDogsTail Tue 31-May-16 18:25:02

Now he is taking his pills again, give him a bit more time to calm down, then talk again about seeing a counsellor.

It sounds as though he needs one on his own too/or you all do after all you have gone through. I was not sure who had a break down, who was bereaved.

He should be willing to give up the 'legal' highs by now. I know you say they are just in a blue moon, but with his mental health things like that are the worst. Why does a grown man and a father need to get high? It is not the right approach for trying to get better, nor would getting drunk or stoned be though a lot of people do it.

I suppose hundreds of people are married to people who in some ways are everlasting teenagers, but it holds everyone back.

I think PacificDogwood seemed to strike the right balance with advice.

Nanny0gg Tue 31-May-16 18:41:49

Did he stop taking his medication so that he could take the drugs?

He's crossed a line. It's up to you whether it's a deal breaker.

FoofooLeSnoo Tue 31-May-16 19:48:08

Also the thing that pisses me off the most? He packed a bag just an hour before my parents were due to come for dinner on my birthday. Just left without a thought for me and the kids! I had to spend my birthday in emotional tatters with 2 small kids and my poor parents. What a wanker eh?

PacificDogwod Tue 31-May-16 20:24:33

As he has a history of a mental illness taking non-prescribed drugs (legal or illegal is irrelevant in my eyes) is an additional risk and at best reckless and thoughtless about how his actions affect those close to him (you, his DCs) and at worst just a symptom of how self-absorbed he is.
He is more likely to precipitate a MH crisis by taking recreational drugs (although it can of course happen to anybody and many people take many drugs without apparent undue effect - it's the unpredictability that has always scared me).

As yes, buggering off like that on the eve of your birthday was a toddler tantrum and an attempt to punish you for being very justifiably angry with him.
I hope you did not try to justify or minimise his behaviour to your parents.

Balanced12 Wed 01-Jun-16 06:08:57

His behaviour is unacceptable, but I don't think you can challenge it now. It sounds like he is cycling through a nasty agressive stage, how often does this happen.

Is he self-medicating ? Booze, drugs ?
Is he stressed about something.

You may need to just let the phrase run its course, then the ultimatum needs to be to be medication compliant. You can not bring up children with someone who is not. Part of this includes not doing things that mess with the medications ability to work, booze, other drugs and smoking.

You also need to agree a plan (when he is well) on what to do when he flares/cycles/acts like a twat. If he won't take responsibility then your better off without him. Medication compliant individuals cycle in years if it's faster then a medication review is needed.

Only you can decide if your willing to put up with the 10%

AnyFucker Wed 01-Jun-16 07:12:55

You gave him an ultimatum

He knows you did not mean it

Rinse and repeat

bakeoffcake Wed 01-Jun-16 07:21:30

He could at least have the decency to apologise and hope for forgiveness for breaking his promise. Instead he punishes you by leaving an hour before your parents turned up to celebrate your birthday. And I expect he hadn't apologised for doing that either!

Why are you letting him get away with treating you like this?

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