Gaslighting

[SoUnsureMaybe]

How do you know when it's happening to you??
I've never been more confused, depressed and lost in my life. I'm sure I'm losing my mind. X

[NeckingtheNightNurse]

The fact your thinking that you are is normally the biggest clue that you are I'm afraid as people don't generally ask that question otherwise

[SoUnsureMaybe]

Oh right. I'm so upset. My partner does nothing but do things and make out like I'm losing the plot and being over sensitive. Since we got together our whole relationship has been about him. The jobs he needs, the money he needs, the way he needs to do things. I've had two babies in two years and he's participated in the major events (birthdays, namings) but is nowhere to be seen for a massive chunk of the day. But then makes me feel like I do a shit job with our kids (our family and friends are amazed by how laid back and well behaved our boys are, and how well they adjust with things like sleep patterns etc) so I know I do the best job I can which is all anyone can do. But he questions everything, and I don't just mean with the kids. He questions my loyalty all the time, I have never given any cause for this, if anything the situations he was in when we got together I've done nothing but help and do everything to please him, and he was in some major situations when we got together. I just don't know what I'm supposed to do anymore x

[AuntyElle]

That sounds like gaslighting plus other emotional abuse?
I found this a helpful article everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/things-wish-known-gaslighting/
Have you read the threads on here about EA?

[AuntyElle]

Have you read this SoUnsure?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2268977-The-Abuser-Profiles

[freshprincess]

This is an example of something that happened to me

I was going out with some friends meaning H had to stay in with DCs. I told him I had to be there by 8. He went out and came back at 8pm. He said I told him i had to leave at 8, so he came back at 8. When I insisted that I didn't he said 'you're always late for everything'. He went on and on about it till I started to think that maybe I had got the times wrong.
He used to insist her told me something and would complain that 'I never listen to him' when I'd draw a blank.

For me it wasn't big things, but lots and lots of small insignificant things which throw you off and make you doubt it. It's subtle, confusing and makes you think you're going mad.
Now, we only communicate via text and email whenever he pulls the 'you never told me' I can screenshot and send it and say, 'yes I did'.

he was also an EA Arse as well.

[SoUnsureMaybe]

AuntyElle how do you define which one they are?? He has attributes of most of them, can that be right?? X

[SoUnsureMaybe]

Freshprincess that's like what he does to me. He always says I never pay attention and that he's told me about work shifts or appointments but I have no clue when he told me.
For the first time in 3 years I'm back on antidepressants as how he makes me feel has put me in a hole again, I know my concentration isn't great some of the time but I always note down stuff when told so I don't understand when he makes me feel like I don't listen. X

[AuntyElle]

SoUnsure yes, it says most EA men will be a mix of types.

[SoUnsureMaybe]

Oh...I was going to say cuz he sounds like a mix of a few of them. X

[AuntyElle]

This is a helpful thread.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2604593-Help-emotional-abuse-or-normal-rowing-Feel-like-Im-going-crazy

And if you post more details hopefully someone more knowledgeable will comment...

[SoUnsureMaybe]

Basically it can be something as little as me "snapping", "you do it all the time" to something like him stopping family members seeing our kids. 
I can be snappy, I don't claim not to but 95% of the time it's through tiredness (2 kids under 2 who wouldn't be) when I have snapped I always apologise but he tries to tell me I've snapped when I know I haven't. Which seems like something trivial, I agree it is, but it can lead him to ignore me for days and days, to him shouting in front of the kids (which we always said we would never do), he can also spend most of the day in bed "avoiding" me. 
He's even gone as far as to bad mouth me to my family and friends in front of me, telling them that I'm difficult and over sensitive, that I slam things when I don't get my way (which I do slam things but it's out of frustration) he has said that he thinks I do it to provoke him, which scared me tbh. I don't know why any one would do such a thing. 
He knows I suffer with anxiety and depression but seems to play on it, and with how I've been feeling with the whole situation it didn't take a lot to push me further into depression. 
I don't want to go into the major things I've helped with, I did them out of love but feel like I aided him just getting things his own way. 
We had an incident where an ex claimed while working away they were in contact and met up (for you know) but she didn't have proof and neither did he. So I had to let it go, he twisted it "how dare you not believe me" "she's got mental problems anyway, she can't be believed". I have my theories but without evidence I can't do much and he knows it. 
He also comes and goes as he pleases, and "I don't have to tell you where or when I'll be back" but I have to tell him every detail of where I'm going and who with. 
And with regards to anything sexual I gave up trying to seduce him ages ago as I always got knocked back but god forbid I ever say no when he tries it on. 
These are just some of the things that confuse me and break my heart. I don't know what to do. We've talked about going to counselling before but will it really help?? Any advice would be a great help. X

[Inexperiencedchick]

One thing stopped me going into relationship with someone is that: "I tried to seduce him and I always got knocked back but god forbid I ever say no when he tries it on." And I was in the wrong because I said "no" the last time he tried on.

You are depressed because he adds on to your depression by making you question and doubt yourself.

I'm sorry you are in this position.

[MarkRuffaloCrumble]

I'm afraid the only worthwhile advice you'll get on here is LTB.

You can't change him, you can't second guess him and you'll never 'win' because he will always move the goal posts, so you'll constantly be left in a state of bewilderment and confusion wondering why he's doing what he's doing.

It's no way for you to live and it isn't healthy for your DCs either, an unhappy mum isn't a recipe for a happy childhood. Separated parents can still parent effectively and once you gather your strength you can deal with this arsehole in a way that puts the power back with you.

[SoUnsureMaybe]

I actually said that to him a few weeks ago, that he keeps moving the goal posts but he flat out denied it.
I've spent a lot of time thinking "well when this happens things will change.....when that happens things will change" but it obviously never will.
I feel sorry for my kids because I see the amazing things they do and say and he misses it all. It hurts so much. X

[AuntyElle]

This sounds truly awful and very abusive, SoUnsure
"but god forbid I ever say no when he tries it on" How does he react if you do say no?

[AuntyElle]

Sorry, I meant it all sounds abusive and awful, not just the sex part.

[SoUnsureMaybe]

When I try and say No, he's like "so you're rejecting me?" "You're seriously saying no?" And I know these aren't questions to answer. I always say I'm tired or don't feel like it but he continues whatever I say. And then always complains that I'm distant or didn't enjoy it. When I told him I didn't want to in the first place. I truly feel I can't say no when he's like this as it makes things worse, so I just lie there with my eyes screwed shut. X

[DoreenLethal]

Are you married and what is the house situation?

You need to get out of this as soon as possible, he is an abuser and you need to get away.

[MrsKCastle]

SoUnsure that last post... You know what you are describing, don't you? You know in your heart that this is absolutely not right and that is why you started this thread. Your instincts are spot on. You deserve far more, far better than this abusive 'man'.

[AuntyElle]

SoUnsure that is hard to read. It must be unbearable to live with.
Could you and your DCs stay with family or friends while you work out what to do and get help and advice?

[SoUnsureMaybe]

We're engaged. The house is mine so that isn't an issue.

I understand what I'm describing but it's very hard to admit that that's what it is. I know that's what's been happening as I automatically start crying afterwards, it's so indescribable. Beyond words.

I'm so lost and I know what I should do but I'm so scared to do it. I hate the thought of my boys growing up learning any of this behaviour. I want them to be total gentlemen and that won't happen here. x

[AuntyElle]

Oh sweetie, this is very serious, and heart breaking.
It sounds like you need someone on here to talk you through your options and how to get yourself out of this. (I'm sorry, I don't have the experience to do that.)
Do ring Women's Aid, I've read it's easier to get through to them later in the day.
There is help.

[BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted]

Don't be afraid. Many thousands of women have been where you are now, and some of them post on this forum. You've tolerated his hateful behaviour and that doesn't make you weak, it means you are strong. Stronger than you know. Most especially considering how much this vile prick has done his best to undermine you. But he hasn't succeeded, has he?

Make a plan to get him out of your life, confide in friends and family (I doubt any of them would be surprised given his behaviour in front of them), get onto the turn2us website to see what you could qualify for benefits-wise. Contact Womens Aid and ask for their support.

Be warned that should he get an inkling that you're detatching he's likely to step it up a notch, so be very discrete until you're ready to lock him out with his stuff in binbags outside.

[NanaNina]

Why are you scared of separating. Is it because for so long you have somehow got used to him "calling the tune" about everything and him taking and you giving, as that's how it sounds. Your partner sounds somewhat unhinged to be honest as well as emotionally abusive. It's no good holding on thinking that things will get better...........how much did you know about this man when you started a r/ship with him.

You absolutely must get rid of him because of your mental health, with 2 little ones you can't afford to be mentally unwell, and for the sake of the children, as you say growing up with such a man as their father.

The house is yours, you obviously have a family - get them on side and ask for their help and I'm sure they will be relieved as they are probably more aware that you realise how difficult he is and how badly you are affected.

[SoUnsureMaybe]

Thank you all for your amazing words of advice and support. I'm going to chat to my grandma and inform her on everything, she knows a lot already but the worse stuff I have held back on.

Nina, I didn't know anything for a long time. We met at work and as awful as it sounds I was pregnant within a month of us meeting. I feel he's purposefully held back a lot of personal stuff, whether that was tactical or because he still doesn't feel I'm loyal (go figure). I would never change anything about having my children, they are my life, they're what give me a purpose to get up everyday, but I just wish I had learned more and waited a while. Maybe things would have turned out a lot differently. I pray that I can change and better my situation, my children deserve better. X