A disagreement I'll never "win"

[Frizzuk1986]

I met my now husband 12 years ago when we went to uni together. We were good friends for almost 2yrs before becoming an item and have been together ever since (married 3 years with a 2yr old dd)
The thing is I'm from the south and he's from the north and it's become a bit of a frustrating subject.

I'm sad that I am not closer to family and have few friends locally. His family are lovely but not particularly supportive emotionally or physically (don't really want to spend too much time with us or dd which is completely the opposite to my family)

We met at uni in the north and when we finished I decided to stay to be with him. I think I assumed that I had all those uni friends and I honestly didn't think he'd move south the be with me (first boyfriend and lacking self confidence but looking back I think I was right that he wouldn't have followed me)

Anyway all my uni friends ended moved back to their homes after we finished so it was just us in the area.
I felt low and isolated and dreamed of moving south. Within the first few years I always suggested it but he always said no and there was some excuse. I even researched costs to relocate but it was always a no, we've got jobs or were renting this home etc.

The longer we've been here the harder the idea is as we now own a home and dd is in a lovely nursery. It would be much much more expensive living near my parents but I'd love to be near them and my sister.
I ask every now and then as it is still at the forefront of my thoughts. Most recently the reason to not go was the house (not being able to afford to buy down there) and his job (he'd finally got a permanent one after over 5 years)
Well he ended up getting terminated from his contract (not his fault and it's a big mess but we can't do anything about it and I really feel awful for what he's gone through) He hasn't found any new work 4 months on and so it's not a reason anymore.
I dislike my job and with him struggling to find one himself my mind drifts to being close to my family for the support. Yes house prices are an issue (twice the cost of our house at least) and I'd like another child which would stretch finances further but whereas within 10 miles of where we live there are about 100 jobs that are in his ideal specialism (most he doesn't have the right experience for) there are over 700 near my family.

I feel stuck.... I love my husband and I'd never leave him to go closer to home as I'd feel worse if we split, but it's like my choices are I'm either sad being away from family or sadder if we split.
I know that means that I have to deal with being away from them but I wonder why he is ok for me to be sad, does he not think I've had to deal with it for 10 years and maybe it's his turn to take the plunge?

It's been a tough year with him losing his job and getting too close to a female colleague (we've moved past it I think) but I guess I feel like he should be jumping through hoops after what I've been through.

Do I just need to grow up and get over it, regardless of the fact that I miss them so much?
Its horrible saying goodbye to them when I see them and I dread mt parents getting older and not seeing them as much as I won't want my dad driving so far to visit (currently see them once every two months and my sister maybe 4 times a year)

[winkywinkola]

So there are many more job opportunities in the south where your family is? And he is still refusing to try it?

It looks to me like you've tried really hard where you are, it hasn't worked and now it's time to try somewhere else.

And you've skimmed over his getting too close to a female colleague too. What happened there?

Would you consider moving down south alone with your dc?

[winkywinkola]

So there are many more job opportunities in the south where your family is? And he is still refusing to try it?

It looks to me like you've tried really hard where you are, it hasn't worked and now it's time to try somewhere else.

And you've skimmed over his getting too close to a female colleague too. What happened there?

Would you consider moving down south alone with your dc?

[winkywinkola]

Why did he lose his job exactly?

[winkywinkola]

And he doesn't feel like he should have to deal with any sadness and you do because you've accepted that as the way it has to be. You've accepted his decision as final.

Yet it's not working for you. He can't get work. He's had an affair. How much more wrong could it get?

[allegretto]

I feel stuck.... I love my husband and I'd never leave him to go closer to home as I'd feel worse if we split, but it's like my choices are I'm either sad being away from family or sadder if we split.

I can sympathise as I feel exactly like this! Except I am in Italy. When we got married he was open to moving to the UK - and then he wasn't. I resented him (and still do) for changing his mind about something so big although I know that he is being logical (we both have jobs here and he would find it hard to find work in the UK) but still - it's not fair! I do expect him to somehow compensate for what I see as a huge sacrifice I have made for our family but he really doesn't. He doesn't see why it would be a sacrifice to live in the best place in the world (sigh). Your husband probably feels the same way and doesn't really understand what a big deal it is for you. You really need to talk properly about this issue - maybe with counselling as it has the potential to drive a wedge between you. It has with us.

[msrisotto]

I sympathise op. To be honest though, it doesn't sound like he much cares about your feelings. You knew when you were at university that he wouldn't move for you and he's not going to move for you now. What does that say about your relationship?
Your parents won't be around forever and it sounds like your family is really important to you. It's not fair, I think it's your turn to live close to your family now before it's too late.

[tribpot]

The dynamic feels weird that you have to 'ask' and he gets to say no. Why is that? Is he the major (or only?) breadwinner?

I don't mean that you can unilaterally decide the family is moving home, although he does rather seem to have unilaterally decided you're staying. But this is a discussion between equals. Now is a great time to be doing it - loads more work opportunities, your dd isn't in school, no job tying you to the area. I am frustrated that I can't move to where there is more work but we have way too many ties to the local area now - I definitely would have done it in the circumstances you are in.

I think you need to stop asking and instead state what you want. You're unhappy being so far away from family. You want to move to be closer to your parents. You want to be somewhere where he will be able to find work on a regular basis without you having to uproot dd once she is at school.

[Frizzuk1986]

He was a teacher and poor references led to them not keeping him (although he has no idea why the refs were bad, had never been told by his last school that he wasn't doing well and they have no evidence that he was poor at his job. The school was a mess before he joined so after a year he found a new job along with much of the staff and I think the new deputy head who didn't know who my husband was has decided to imply that all the bad staff have left so the school is better)

He was flirty with an older female colleague and on a night out he slept in the same bed as her (nothing happened) but he didn't tell me and I found evidence of them discussing how nice the evening was.

It's tough and I know it's not solely his decision to stay but I also don't want him feeling like I do.
He has friends here and his family and we do love our house.
If we move he would lose his friends, family and we are unlikely to be able to own a home again for a while and when we can it will prob be smaller and not as nice.

Oh and he wants to quit teacher after years of hard work and uncertainty and disappointment. That's why he's struggling to find something. My job is bog standard admin but yet again it seems like I could have more opportunities and earn more down south and there appear to be more options for him too.

I wouldn't move without him but would love him to give it a try.

[tribpot]

You're basically giving away your power if you already know that you wouldn't move without him, and that you don't want him feeling like you do - you don't seem to feel you have the right to your own feelings and wishes. He certainly doesn't feel that you do, so here you are.

I can understand why you're wondering why he doesn't jump through hoops after what he's put you through, but given you're not willing to assert yourself I doubt he has really felt much pushback from his (entirely unacceptable) behaviour.

Why not keep your house up north and rent it out for a couple of years, whilst you see how things go down south? You've got a couple of years until schools become a big issue, now is a good time to experiment with something new.

[DinosaursRoar]

Was also going to suggest you rent out the house up north and rent in the south east so you've at least stayed on the property ladder.

If he doesn't want to be a teacher, what does he want to be? What do you want to do long term for your job?

If he's out of work and has been for a while, this might be the ideal break point - ask him why his happiness is more important than yours? You aren't happy in the north, you've tried it but aren't happy. Would he do the same for you and give it a go for a couple of years? If he won't, ask him to explain why his happiness is all that matters in your relationship.

[ravenmum]

I was in the same position as Allegretto, but in Germany. My husband was also "open" to the idea of moving at first, in that he would nod, smile and agree, but in fact he had no intention of moving.

When we split up I found he'd been telling everyone I was hard to live with as I always moaned about living abroad and blamed it on him. This was not true, I had only ever said I was sad about not seeing my family, and I specifically said it was not his fault, but maybe he still saw it like that? (Maybe not, he needed an excuse for his affair!)

Since we split up I actually feel better about living here. I still feel bad that I've missed out on a relationship with my family, but my life here is now nicer. I've made more effort to do stuff on my own, so have things to do in the evenings and at weekends. I've been more rude honest with his family and they are now less snotty with me. Recently I have a boyfriend who realises that it was a big move for me having a family abroad and even finds it impressive rather than just looking down on me for not integrating instantly and fully. This is a much nicer place to be.

So I'd say on one hand, make sure that you are not relying only on your husband for support: look very actively for activities, friends and the good sides of where you are. But on the other hand, don't assume that splitting up is just a bad thing. If you feel so strongly about it, be prepared to see it as an option if your husband doesn't (want to) recognise your predicament. Look honestly at who gets to make decisions in your marriage and why.

[bakeoffcake]

there are so many things going on here, I feel very sorry for you.

If his reference was bad and it isn't a true reflection, he needs to do something about it. The fact he hadn't doesn't look good.

He slept with anoth woman but 'nothing happened'

You found messages about how lovely the night was

No wonder you're feeling so down about not being near family and friends.

He's been a complete idiot and should be bending over backwards to make you happy. If I were you I'd be telling him you are moving as you need family support.

If he chooses not to come, it's because he doesn't love you enough.

You have to gain control of your life or he will continue to treat you with little respect.

[PandoNoPants]

I'm like you OP. Im from London and OH is from the midlands. We live in the midlands and I miss home/friends/family.

Regarding the job situation. Would he consider renting down South and seeing how things work out? Or even exploring a few job opportunities first? Nothing is set in stone and he might find something he really likes. I really feel for you because I miss home so bad.

Im not sure what to say about the incident with his ex colleague. I personally wouldn't be amused and would have a hard time trusting my OH. He certainly wouldn't like it if I did something like that (I wouldn't in the first place!). How has that been left? Is he sorry?

[Frizzuk1986]

He is very sorry about the incident and I really do believe that nothing happened although I think emotionally they took it too far and this resulted in the sharing a bed. He recognises how wrong he was and we've worked through a lot.

The location has been something that is always there.
He has been pursuing things with his union and they have been unable to get any evidence from the shool to corroborate their ref but have said there is not much else they can do. So he's stuck there.

I wonder if maybe we could give it a try. I do think maybe I don't try hard enough with friends. I've always struggled making them and keeping them and have very few. But I have suffered from depression which hadn't helped and then post child I did almost everything as his teaching took over.

He has no idea what he wants to do but he enjoys science (and that's what he taught) and there's lots more science vacancies closer to my folks.

I wonder if his parents lack of support is due to them not being retired yet unlike mine. But we went on holiday with my family when dd was 8 months and she didn't sleep so my mum took her for a whole night without me asking or saying anything she just recognised how tired I was.
We go away with his parents at easter and he told his mum how dd might jump on their bed when she wakes up early and the response was "no she'll jump on your bed I'm locking my door"
Not sure if that was a joke or serious but it just highlights the whole issue. I know they love dd but it's not the same.
He is frustrated with them too and I wonder if he didn't have friends locally he might be more open to moving.

[bakeoffcake]

As someone upthread suggested, could you not rent your house out, move down south and see how things go?

He really should be willing to give it a chance.

[TheSquashyHatOfMrGnosspelius]

As all the others have said. Tell him, actually tell him, it's time to even up the split and go south now while the opportunity is there. If he will not, then leave and be happy.
I have not read your other thread but the sleeping with another woman but nothing happened....ummm... Even in the event that nothing happened really really unlikely but whatever it was hugely disrespectful in any case so that and that alone would have me headed for the Watford Gap no matter how it was window dressed.
By refusing to move he is putting up a finger to you, has no sense of fair play and has no intention of providing for his family is how I would see it.

[msrisotto]

Dude...they slept together. what makes you think otherwise?

[TwoLeftSocks]

Completely playing devils advocate here, might he be worried that if you all go down south you might not go back up north ever again? Sounds like you miss it that much that it would be a real wrench for you to leave again. Add to that your DC getting settled at school and making friends would be a massive tie for many years to come.

Not saying you shouldn't, or shouldn't want to, just thinking that his reluctance might include that too.

That and he sounds a bit of a home boy. My pet theory is that there are people who like moving to new places and seeing more of the world (which includes those who are happy to travel to university away from home), and there are people who would be happy always staying where they grew up and see no reason to live anywhere else. You're the former and he's the latter.

[bakeoffcake]

I also think this is a fantastic opportunity for you to make the move. If/when your H gets a job up north, he will then have a valid excuse not to move.

Do it now while dd is young and he has no job.

I do know how you're feeling because I was in a similar situation. I'm northern and met dh and moved down south to be with him. I very much miss my family and friends but he has always had the higher paid job, I was a sahm for a long time- which is what I wanted. You seem to be making all the compromises in this relationship.

[DoreenLethal]

Love - they slept together.

Move back down South. With no job, if he loves you he will follow. If he doesn't then you have your answer.

[HeteronormativeHaybales]

I was ready to say YABU (having myself lived in places I didn't like for dh's work - btw, ravenmum, I'm in Germany too and I get your name ) until I read that he (presumably the main earner? sorry if I've missed that detail) has lost his job and could find work more easily down south, as could you. IMO it's sometimes necessary to go where the work is. Staying where you are and hoping something will turn up is a big risk.

You will almost certainly have to downsize house-wise and will need to calculate the increased cost of housing/living into your change in earnings, but your dh's refusal to even countenance a move is U.

The issue with the colleague is a separate, but IMO very worrying one.

[msrisotto]

How old are you? How do you feel about living the rest of your life where you are, eventually perhaps without cheating DH?

[SevenSeconds]

My friend has this issue too. She met her DH in Germany when she was on a year abroad as part of her degree. In the early years they used to talk about moving to the UK as she really misses her family (she and her sister and very close), but now she has accepted that it's never going to happen - too much upheaval for their DC (eldest is now 12), and her DH would struggle to find a job here. I know she used to feel very sad about it but I think she has made peace with it now.

It sounds like those reasons don't apply to you though. It will get harder and harder to move when DD is at school. I think it's only fair for your DH to give it a shot. You can always move back north if it doesn't work out.

I do think that the person who was in their home town when a couple met automatically has the upper hand (because the other person had chosen to live there before meeting them, albeit temporarily). I'm not saying that's right, but I think that's why you've ended up in this position.

[Frizzuk1986]

He has only been the main bread winner for the past 5 years. Before that it has been me. Now obviously its Mr as he doesn't have work.
I have to admit that if we did try it I doubt if I would want to come back up north. It would have to be really awful so yes he is probably thinking that by him agreeing he is setting in stone a permanent move. I wish if pushed harder at the start as I really don't feel like I have the right to make him go somewhere he doesn't want to. I'll do some sums and see financially how it might work and maybe we talk it out. Although I know he won't agree to it regardless of my arguments and I'll agree to stay here as thats a) my personality type and b) we're already here so default will always be we stay.

[TwoLeftSocks]

I guess your choices in this situations are:

1. persuade him to move down south, using whatever arguments work best,
   
2. stay where you are and make the best of it,
   Or 3) just move anyway.
   
   Can't say I envy you, it's rubbish living somewhere you don't really feel settled in.