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Is this rape.

(41 Posts)
wotsit99 Wed 04-Nov-15 08:04:52

A man has just started a new relationship with a woman but is still sleeping with the mother of his 2 year old dd. The mother of his child (Kate) and he argue one day over his intentions and she emails his girlfriend and tells her that he is sleeping with them both.
He comes straight over and repeatedly kicks kate in the leg in front of their dd, puts his hands around her throat. He them says he is going to rape kate in front of their daughter and as he is dragging her down the hallway she can see he has an erection through his jeans. Their daughter follows him into the bedroom and Kate asks that if he is going to do it can they put a film on for their dd in the living room, which he allows kate to do. In the bedroom he sweeps all of her stuff off of thw top of her cheat if drawers telling her her life is shit. Kate is crying on the bed, as he comes over and pushes her legs apart and takes off her leggings and knickers he says come on I'm not going to hurt you. And she allows him to have sex with her, she is not responsive or 'into it' just allows it to happen. When he has finished he looks her coldly in the eye and says "fuck you". He then sits at the end of the bed and starts talking, saying he loves his new girlfriend. He says "the sex with her will never be as good as with you I mean it's nothing like that but I love her" (talking as if what just took place was consensual sex). He then kicks kate again at which point their dd is in the room and starts to try and hit kate too. When he leaves he takes kate car/house keys and her phone, he kicks her computer screen and leaves.
Kate never saw it as rape but that she allowed him to have sex with her, she was confused because what she was most upset about was the lack of care and rejection and the fact he had chosen this other woman over her. She thought maybe it was abusive sex but she allowed it to happen she did love him after all.
5 months later they were back together and he insisted it wasn't rape because he would have stopped if she had told him to stop. Kate spends thw next two years of their relationship in total denial and doesn't think about it. Now that they have split for a year she is starting to think about it and gets quite upset at the realisation it is probably rape and that she stayed in love with him and entered a relationship with him again. But she still feels maybe it wasn't black and white. Any second opinions would be appreciated.

MatildaTheCat Wed 04-Nov-15 08:09:07

Yes. The violent assaults were criminal offences, too.

I hope Kate is ok and has support.

MorrisZapp Wed 04-Nov-15 08:09:57

Of course it's rape. How are you doing now, and how is your daughter? How awful for a little one to see such violence. Have you had any help or intervention?

BrucieTheShark Wed 04-Nov-15 08:10:02

Yes it's rape of course. He stated that it would be before the act and she simply bargained for her daughter not to have to witness it.

Silence and/or lack of physical movement is certainly not consent.

This was really awful, I'm so sorry if it was you. Whoever it was deserves support and justice.

BuffytheScaryFeministBOO Wed 04-Nov-15 08:10:19

Yes. Kate can ring Rape Crisis for support, however long ago this was.

wotsit99 Wed 04-Nov-15 08:14:27

Thank you

clinksy Wed 04-Nov-15 08:14:33

Rape and a whole lot more.

Lweji Wed 04-Nov-15 08:15:43

Rape
Theft
Physical violence
Child abuse...

I'd advise to get help. To talk to rape crisis, sort out counselling not only for the rape but for all that followed as well.
And I'd be very concerned about the child having to witness this all.

Aussiemum78 Wed 04-Nov-15 08:17:57

It's rape.

Even if you bargained to get him to not hurt you, hurt your daughter, practise safe sex or didn't protest it's clear there was no consent and you were fearful of protesting.

He's a dangerous man.

Only1scoop Wed 04-Nov-15 08:18:19

I'm really sorry but I couldn't read past the part about kicking kate in front of her dd.

That in itself is assault.

The creature in question needs to be arrested.

GlitteryFluff Wed 04-Nov-15 08:18:58

Definitely rape.
I hope Kate is ok.thanks

wotsit99 Wed 04-Nov-15 08:20:35

The following years have been very messy with his ex still involved and another child. Now the ex and her child have zero contact with him. I am wondering about the future for my children and whether I want them to continue contact now. Have spent so long focusing on the wrong things and in complete denial to try and live happily ever after as a family. Now it's over and I've moved on I am starting to realise. I watched sex on trial on bbc I player last night and spent the evening crying as I'd never seen it like that before

wotsit99 Wed 04-Nov-15 08:24:48

I'm not sure how I've not been able to take it in or react to it.

WorzelsCornyBrows Wed 04-Nov-15 08:29:33

Yes it is. This man is a rapist and abuser.

GlitteryFluff Wed 04-Nov-15 08:32:03

I think sometimes it can be clouded when it's happened to you, when you're involved with feelings etc. but from an outside perspective it's clearer. And no doubt you were keeping it pushed away in the back of your mind if you were trying to continue as a family. So it's only really now just clicking. That program was eye opening for lots of people, especially when the offender is someone you know/have had a relationship with/and if you don't say no it's still not consent.
Do phone rape crisis.
Sorry this happened to you. thanks

LineyReborn Wed 04-Nov-15 08:32:37

Sometimes massive traumas take a long time to process. Years in fact.

You've been through a lot.

BuffytheScaryFeministBOO Wed 04-Nov-15 08:56:49

This man coldly, deliberately, raped Kate. He threatened her and assaulted her. Everyone here believes her, she didn't consent to this.

Her actions, she took to protect her 2 year old daughter from harm and minimise the risk of more violence. That was courageous, she is an incredibly strong woman and a brilliant mother. The amount of responsibility she needs to take is 0.

If she wants to talk, she can ring Rape Crisis now, 0808 8029999. They are open until 2:30, then again at 7:00 until 9:30. They can put Kate in touch with her local team.

Ripeningapples Wed 04-Nov-15 09:05:37

He is an abusive animal. Always will be. I wouldn't even contemplate contact with a child. Get counselling to deal with what happened in the past. Don't let him anywhere near your future.

Lweji Wed 04-Nov-15 09:44:39

I'm glad you're getting some clarity over it, even if only now.
I hope it will help you process it better and certainly not blame yourself.
There will have been several factors at play in what happened and how you reacted to it, which is why I think you'd benefit from counselling. I'd bet this was not an isolated incident of abuse, which always makes things more complicated, as it tends to escalate over time and you end up normalising a lot of awful things.

How is the little one?
I'd be inclined to stop contact, even if it meant reporting this incident now to make sure unsupervised contact doesn't happen.

wotsit99 Wed 04-Nov-15 11:09:14

No it was not an isolated incident but it was the worst. I have a lot of guilt that I reconciled with him, we even had another baby who is now 2. My eldest dd is now 7 and they both see him a couple.of times a month but he has neglected them by letting my eldest go to the shop on her own in a rough area and my youngest dd came back with severe nappy rash and peeling skin because he can't afford nappies. He has no transport so I have to do the travel. My eldest dd has a bond with him and lives him very much. I don't want either of them to see more abuse when his next girlfriend comes along. He swears aggressively, punches walls etc. My eldest is a lovely little girl but im sure untold damage has been done to her by what shes witnessed. My youngest only witnessed him being physical towards me twice. Last week he said he cant afford foodfor them so couldn't have them and says it breaks his heart he loves them so much and me and my family are vile because we don't see it. He is always 5he victim. He wanted to have them this weekend but yesterday I just emailed him saying they are ill and can't go. Watching that programme has brought a lot of things into focus suddenly. I have a lovely supportive partner now but yes I will definitely contact rape crisis and see someone. Thanks k you all for your support.

Sighing Wed 04-Nov-15 11:25:41

Considering his violence (in front of children) and instability (finances, punching walls, neglecting the care of a baby ). Removing your children from unsupervised contact with this abuser would be an advisable step. You've had feelings for this man, your view is clouded. But there's a lot there to justify there always being an adult present to protect the children from him and his behaviour. A contact centre? Near him?

RebootYourEngine Wed 04-Nov-15 11:31:22

I am so sorry that this happened to you and i am glad you are no longer with him.

One thing that stood out for me from watching that bbc program was
'Just because you didnt say no it doesnt mean that you said yes'

Sometimes it is safer to not put up a fight and allow it to happen but it is still rape.

BuffytheScaryFeministBOO Wed 04-Nov-15 12:04:07

It sounds to me that this man is an emotional abuser as well as a physical abuser and rapist. He is trying to manipulate you into doing... what? Giving him money so that he can feed his daughters when he sees them? Or does he just want to hurt you, and doesn't mind if they're also harmed in the process?

No.

Call Women's Aid 0808 2000 247 and tell them what's been going on. They will support you and give you practical advice on protecting yourself and your daughters from further abuse.

flowers

It's rape, and continued abuse.

Cease contact with the DCn. Let him take you to court for it Contact Raoe Crisis, GP, even the police if you feel up to it.

ShebaShimmyShake Wed 04-Nov-15 12:37:07

I don't know what's more appalling....The fact that this happened or the fact that somehow Kate has got the impression that this might not be rape.

Of course it's rape. You didn't "allow" it, you were physically and psychologically forced and coerced and you eventually submitted as a sheer survival strategy. That's not consent.

This monster needs to be locked up and castrated. I sincerely wish death upon him.

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