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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

Emotional affair or not? Does it matter? How to repair

27 replies

stillworkingonit · 01/09/2015 17:25

I'm a bit confused and would value advice. In my mind DP had an emotional affair, out of a lack of insight and awareness, rather than a desire to go outside of us. There is a clear lack of judgment and lots of evidence that DP was never considering anything more than a platonic relationship. However in my mind the relationship crossed many boundaries, and was overly close, and demanded more in time than our own. Their relationship has now ended, which was pretty difficult, due to it becoming overly intense and fraught with emotional demands that were inappropriate.

My reasons for thinking this relationship was inappropriate is that DP spent more time thinking, worrying, texting and seeing this woman than me towards the end. Multiple evenings were ruined because DP was upset or worried about this woman's wellbeing, or because she had said something unpleasant. DP discussed the (poor) state of our relationship with her, acknowledged that if they'd met years ago they might have got together, and forgave her when she behaved unpleasantly. DP confided in her about personal issues, mental health and anxieties and described her as a support and best friend. DP explicitly took worries and emotions to this friend instead of me because I was overwhelmed with my own issues at the time (depression, 1 pre-school DC).

I was aware of almost all of their relationship (only not aware of the full extent of arguments and personal information towards the end when I had got too annoyed by it), and there was no hiding anything, nor any suggestion of a physical affair. I fully embraced DP having a close friend, and I confide in my friends about my relationship, this has always been okay. Although I confide in them, I've never had a relationship outside of us that was so intense (time or content-wise) but then I'm more reluctant to get close to people.

DP sees the problem as having had a friendship that went wrong, and acknowledges we have issues that we need to work on, and is clearly committed to me.

I am really angry about the effect this has all had on me. I don't feel DP can acknowledge the mistakes and the reasons we suffered this, and therefore I don't trust it won't happen again. I feel angry a lot of the time, often directed at the woman, but it also comes out on everyone else. I often feel very depressed and hopeless.

I feel we are completely at odds in how we see things over this. DP thinks I should move on, and that my reaction is more to do with my own anxieties. So I would like to know if I'm over-reacting, and if so how on earth can I get to a point where I a) trust DP with friendships and b) don't get so angry!

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LucySnow12 · 01/09/2015 17:43

I have never been cheated on but have read many affair threads here on Mumsnet. You definitely have reason to be angry. Your DP was giving all the attention, love and devotion that belonged to you, as his partner, to another woman. You can't move on until your DP understands why he did this. This is a problem that he caused, not you. In the past, there was a wonderful poster called "Whenwillifeelnormal". She commented on many affair threads with amazing insight. I would search for her threads. She would also always recommend the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. And one last thought - are certain they have stopped communicating? Is there now total transparency? Have you access to phone and emails? I hope you can work through this but your DP needs to own it.

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Jan45 · 01/09/2015 18:01

He betrayed you in the worst possible way yet he's telling you to now get over it, I would think the same as you, what happens next time?

Sorry but from what you say he's not to be trusted, that's where your anxiety is coming from, remove him, get rid of the worry.

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summerconfusion · 01/09/2015 18:07

It's going to be so difficult for you to get over this if DP won't take responsibility for what he's done. It would be difficult enough if he was remorseful contrite. My advice would be to get joint counselling straight away as you need to be on the same page re. their 'friendship' before you can figure out how to move past it.

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pocketsaviour · 01/09/2015 18:13

DP sees the problem as having had a friendship that went wrong, and acknowledges we have issues that we need to work on, and is clearly committed to me.

He comes across as more naive than anything else. I'm not going to say you're over-reacting - your feelings are your feelings and that's fine - but you do need to find a way to get past this issue. Have you thought about counselling? It would give you a safe space to express your anger over this issue.

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NewLife4Me · 01/09/2015 18:40

You need to tell him how badly this has affected you, how hurtful it is that he discussed your business with an outsider.
He may have a point about not being able to talk to you and maybe this is something you could address through counselling.
However, imo he crossed the line and should have stopped immediately the friendship changed to an emotional affair.
Even if he has been naive you know you cross the line when talk turns to "if we had been together" etc. He could have suggested counselling if he thought your relationship needed support and help.
He is trying to brush it under the carpet so as not to admit he did anything wrong. He should be apologising and bending over backwards to make it up to you.

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Whatifitoldyou · 01/09/2015 19:08

Your not overreacting Op. Your feelings are very normal after something like this.

I disagree that this was a friendship gone wrong , or that he was simply naive. The fact that they acknowledged they might have gotten together had they met years earlier is an open admission of the attraction between them. It's not a conversation that generally occurs between friends.

In the cheating world this is what is referred to as an affair in plain sight. There is little in the way of sneaking around or making excuses. They see each other openly and talk about them openly. They text or phone openly. They are , after all , just a friend. Often the spouse who is observing this budding friendship is reassured by the openness of it . After all , if they were doing anything wrong , they would hide it .

How to trust your husband in future with female friendships ? You won't , and you would be daft if you did. Your husband should avoid developing female friendships, especially ones that exclude you. The drama and bad behaviour you describe from her doesn't surprise me. Is your husband usually such a bad judge of character ?

You say you were initially ok about this friendship. Why did you start to feel uncomfortable about it ? Did your husband respect your feelings about it ?

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Dadof2wo · 01/09/2015 19:42

OP, this is a carbon copy of my scenario at the start of the year, only it was my wife that had a male "workmate" that clearly turned into an emotional affair.
Dont be taken in by the "i was naive" type story. When someone outwith your immediate family is continually on your mind and effecting your own relationship at home, its a damn sight more that "just a close friend". In time you will probably discover more information im afraid.

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AnyFucker · 01/09/2015 19:49

This was an affair. He shared things with her, personal things to do with your marriage, that he didn't with you

Now he wants you to STFU about it

I am curious why your anger is more directed at her...your husband has been mugging you off. He is the one that owed you loyalty and he trashed it. That is unforgivable to me.

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Whatifitoldyou · 01/09/2015 20:09

When did this happen Op ?

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stillworkingonit · 01/09/2015 20:30

Thank you everyone for that perspective. I'm generally v relaxed and not jealous or suspicious so I struggled initially to think I should say how uncomfortable I was with it.
I am angry at DP. I'm angry with her for other issues and that anger fades, its jusr displaced anger. I am certain there is no more to discover but I think what I know is enough to be angry about. And that DP needs to understand the breach if we're to mend.
I have seen contacts and there's nothing hidden. I'm not being told to get over it or shut up, but I'm not being understood yet.
I was initially happy with their friendship, I got annoyed over little things that got bigger, mostly the amount of time she was taking up and that so much was going into someone who kept annoying him. But I didn't make that clear. When I did then it ended no question. Yes, DP is repeatedly naive with others and unguarded, this isn't out of character but this has never happened before. Naive is my word not a story I'm being given. I often have to explain why someone may have misunderstood them. But not ASD, just not thinking.
Its really helping to hear we need outside help, we've considered it in the past and I think we really need it now. Thank you.

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Joysmum · 01/09/2015 20:44

Having an emotional affair is one thing but currently your are being expected to suppress and deny your feelings. That's not healthy and it's a further current examples let as to how his feelings are expected to trump yours.

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AnyFucker · 01/09/2015 21:13

why did you have to make it so "clear" before it ended ?

you have taken responsibility for his bad choices...that's why it doesn't sit well with you

because you have taken responsibility, he doesn't have to...and that's just dandy with him isn't it ?

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stillworkingonit · 01/09/2015 22:18

That's really interesting AF. I tend to overly take on responsibility generally. I will back off on taking responsibility for building some trust. On the back of this thread I've been able to stick to my feelings being valid, and am feeling more understood, and we've agreed I need space to feel whatever I feel and be respected.

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AnyFucker · 01/09/2015 22:27

Good for you Thanks

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Whatifitoldyou · 01/09/2015 22:57

I generally struggle with the idea of adults being that naive and unaware. By the time you are an adult life has usually taught you a few lessons . Naive and gullible is only something you can have the luxury of if there is a responsible adult around to deal with the consequences of your poor choices.

At a minimum I would expect him to get real about his alleged naivety very quickly.

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winkywinkola · 01/09/2015 23:15

I think you'll find out more soon enough.

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AnyFucker · 01/09/2015 23:24

I also think there is more to it

How convenient that his disrespectful and disloyal behaviour is so easily written off as "naivety". What bollocks.

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Whatifitoldyou · 02/09/2015 00:17

Unfortunately I agree there is probably more. An emotional affair is simply an affair that has not yet gone physical. If they were often isolated I would assume the worst. Certainly it sounds like they had more of a turbulent relationship as opposed to a friendship. Men tend not to waste their time arguing with annoying friends , and they don't usually spend entire evenings worrying about their friends wellbeing.

People are usually functioning on shock and adrenalin when these things are discovered. There's a desire to fix things and to excuse or minimize (on both sides). That eventually wears off and anger and resentment kick in.

The general saying is that you have to be willing to lose your marriage if you want to save it. That means that he alone is responsible for repairing this ridiculous mess. It means he stops being selfish and immature , stops pretending to be naive. It also means you stop accepting his weak excuses and stop taking responsibility for him, or rescuing him when he screws up.

If he won't do this , you will need to walk away , either temporarily or permanently. The general myth is that people who get less cheat. In reality it's those that give less and take more that feel entitled to cheat. Has he generally given less and taken more in your marriage ? Either way he is still in selfish cheater mode, denying , minimizing and lying and still putting himself first. For that reason alone I would independently verify he is no longer in contact. Did you ever verify the story with ow ?

Cheaters often feel comfortable cheating because they know or presume that their spouse won't let the relationship fail. They have often been taking advantage of their spouse for a long time, secure in the knowledge that their spouse loves them and meets all their needs. Nothing will change until he genuinely feels there is a genuine risk of losing you. Until then he will continue to gaslight you , blaming your anxieties and making you doubt yourself.

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AnyFucker · 02/09/2015 00:25

^^ that is bloody good advice

listen to it, op...it describes your situation perfectly

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stillworkingonit · 02/09/2015 07:59

Thank you again for the challenging viewpoints. Its useful to get an outside view from people who don't know DP. It ended 8 mths ago, and yes, I got the 'story' direct from OW, and also from OW's OH. I've reiterated what you've said above, its not my job to fix DP's mess, nor to help DP cope with the upset of realising the impact of that mess. There's no doubt about us being in trouble, and over last few years its been me threatening to leave, so the genuine risk of losing me is there. I know it was more on the other woman's side than DPs, from what I've read, but I'm most concerned with DP not realising this was a problem, and not talking to me about it at the time. But I've said that it doesn't matter what the intention or reason behind the relationship was, it still happened and it was still highly inappropriate and threatened us, and DP will have to stand up to the consequences.

I am going to ponder the giving and taking in our relationship. We've found a recommended therapist, and I'm making the appts (because I have clear preferences and want to control this), but have said that's the only thing I'm contributing to fixing things, and I'm definitely not interested in DP's feelings right now. Leaving isn't an option for various practical reasons, but I may decide I feel like some time away - if anyone gets to stay in a hotel it will be me!

Thank you again for everyone taking the time to reply to me. I needed to hear stuff that stops me minimising and being understanding. I actually feel less angry (just clearer and firmer on what I feel) now than I did yesterday because I haven't been trying to push it away.

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AnyFucker · 02/09/2015 09:48

Good luck x

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summerconfusion · 02/09/2015 10:59

Sounds like you've made good steps OP, good luck with it, let us know how everything goes! Xox

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Whatifitoldyou · 02/09/2015 13:31

Im not at all surprised you've threatened to leave previously. There's often a long history of selfish behaviour from the cheater. Presumably your husband has made no such threats to leave, he's probably been perfectly happy not meeting your needs and had no desire to change things. Unfortunately your threats to leave won't have been taken seriously. It communicated to your husband that the only consequence for shitty behaviour was empty threats. If you cannot leave for practical reasons your husband will be aware of this. You need to take steps to address those practical reasons , and he needs to know that you can and will leave if necessary.

Usually the betrayed spouse has spent quite some time doing all the shitwork, trying to keep the marriage going, addressing issues (that are ignored) trying to improve things ect. The cheater typically runs things off the road every so often, confident in the knowledge that the spouse will do the work to fix it. A cheater knows their spouse is heavily invested, is dependent on them , and will exploit this.

Many people state that cheating is out of character for their spouse, they were the nicest kindest person ever. This is rarely true. You will need to challenge some of your beliefs about your husband , mainly that he is naive or lacks insight. Believe me. pulling off an affair in plain view takes a lot of awareness and a lot of insight, as does implying your spouses distress is due to their anxieties. And I say that as a cheater myself. You'll need to review your spouse and your history honestly, which can be very painful.

All marriage counsellors, therapists, have their own idea about what causes affairs. Some believe that it occurs through unmet needs and that the betrayed spouse is somehow responsible. Others believe it's due to issues as a child and will root around in their childhood until they find something that apparently caused it. Some think there's no point focusing on it and to focus on the future. There's a wide range of ideas about it. What your therapist believes to be true will affect how they approach it. It might be useful for you to read about the various approaches they take.

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Louisa111 · 02/09/2015 16:25

It's hard hard work!! I know exactly how you feel! My dh got very friendly with a work colleague last year, texting , talking on phone and quite frankly knew just too much about her personal life and I'm pretty damn sure age knew a lot about his life. I wasn't happy, in fact I convinced myself he was having a full blown affair to which he denied and said ' they were just friends' . It led to lots of arguments between us , I told him I wanted him to stop being so friendly to her. For a while things were great, I thought they weren't speaking as then worked in different areas which was great.
Fast forward a year and it turns out they do still speak, just about 'work' ( really??!!) and I need to accept he will have female friends. It's left me being very very insecure, I feel like my dh is possibly having an affair with her but I have no proof and I'm the one that's always in the wrong if I say I'm not happy about something to do why her. Which is crazy because if the shoe was in the other foot he would flip!! Like you we have a young child and when their friendship started my dd was only 6 months old so my hormones were going crazy .
I can't offer any advice as I feel pretty hopeless right now too, I never really really know if there is/was something more and it's torture Sad

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AnyFucker · 02/09/2015 17:47

Louisa

Which is crazy because if the shoe was in the other foot he would flip!!

This is the key here. There is huge inequality in your relationship. If you did the equivalent of what he is doing, how would he react ?. And yet, you are made to feel like a nagging and insecure wife for voicing how you feel.

You are a fool to tolerate that kind of treatment, and I would bet my house your relationship is based on many other sexist and arrogant beleifs that he has, as opposed to a mutually beneficial one

such is the way women are socialised to STFU about unfair and damaging attitudes to their place in a hierarchy of needs and about how men are constantly excused and afforded more leeway to act like they are superior in some way

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