Yet another cheater

[whattheactualf]

I think I have decided to end my marriage and just looking for both support so that I don't change my mind (need reminders of why I'm doing this and what he really is) and also advice on what to do next and how this will play out.

Back story is we have been together for 8 years, married for 4. We now have 2 very young DC. We moved overseas 6 years ago and I believe that's when he first cheated. The 'full' story didn't come out until after we were married- when I was 5 months pregnant he went out on a work networking thing and slept with someone else. He didn't remember that he had (or so he says) as he was so drunk and I was the one who told him, with some damming evidence. When confronted with this, he confessed to the earlier incident which he had always denied. I heard that he'd change, things would be different, everything would be open (bank/credit accounts, phone, emails) we'd go to counselling etc. etc. The usual spiel. So I was pregnant, miles from home, jobless etc. so said I'd give it a year for him to improve a lot of things about his behaviour. Other than the obvious, his drinking too. He did this and has thrown himself fully into the dad role and is actually brilliant with them. I did not expect to see that kind of a change.

So this brings me to now. I still have a lot of unanswered questions about what happened in the past and do not believe that he has been fully open. I am 100% sure that there are still things that he hides from me. So one issue is that I need to get to the bottom of what happened with the first person in the past- he says he slept with her twice. I think that it was more of a relationship and he made trips to visit her, gave her money etc. The second issue is that I think he might still on occasion sleep around. He travels for business a lot to places where it is common in his industry for guys to cheat on their wives. Absolutely not acceptable, but I've heard people talk about this like it's no thing. They go back to their families after a few days away and continue on with family life until the next trip. I have seen messages from his colleagues that are suggestive of this.

Over the last few days I have been snooping and gathered a few bits of evidence (nothing that says exactly what is going on outright), but I think enough to make me feel pretty sure. I have literally just decided today that this is the end. But I need help in seeing it through because I have thought this in my head many times before but never even raise it with him as family life is good. We spend a lot of time together with the kids, we get on well, have a laugh, are intimate etc. and he is always around. He rarely leaves me home alone for a night out. Plays the family man role really well. However, when he is on business I think it is a different story.... Once he is on the plane I think we are all but forgotten.

I have decided not to say anything until next week because it is DCs birthday tomorrow and we are having a party then the following day we are going on holiday. So my idea was to bring it up when we get back. I'm worried about changing my mind, because today I feel strong about going it alone but I'm weak.

Any advice, comments etc. would be really helpful! I particularly want to hear about others' experiences of what they did and what happened next. Other than confronting him, I don't really know what to do next.

Thanks

[InTheBox]

Are you 100% about going on the holiday? There was a thread on here not too long ago about the agonising holidays married couples took in which the atmosphere was so negative it ruined the whole thing.

You need to start thinking about practicalities. Do you rent, mortgage? Are your financial ducks in a row? Are you planning on staying in the country and have good friends or family that could support you and listen to you?

fwiw, I didn't leave the first time it dawned on me that I should. I kept thinking he'd change and life could go back to normal - it never did and I wasted a further 2 years trying in vain. What made me finally see the light was when I found concrete evidence and he actually told me that I was 'mistaken' and had 'wrongly misinterpreted' the messages between him and OW. I've had a good laugh at that one since. I confronted him pretty much immediately as it wasn't something I could sit on.

If you're worried about changing your mind then start to write a list of the feelings he's caused you over the years, his actions that have brought you to this point, his character that has made you feel this way. It might sound ridiculous but it's quite a cathartic thing.

And obviously keep posting for support.

[QuietTooLong]

OP I applaud your decision. InTheBox is correct - do nothing and say nothing until you get your financial ducks in a row - find out what's where - bank accounts, savings, investments, etc. Print off the information and put it somewhere safe out of the house. We all hope they'll be civil and fair, but experience shows that even the nicest guys can turn nasty and unfair very quickly when divorce is looming. Don't leave it to chance - protect yourself because that the minute he knows you plan to leave he will start hiding it.

Also be VERY careful who you share your plans with - a friend may tell her DH and he may tip off your cheater.

And read this for fortification. It will help you immensely. beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/2013/08/14/why-you-should-leave-a-cheater/

[pocketsaviour]

Over the last few days I have been snooping and gathered a few bits of evidence (nothing that says exactly what is going on outright), but I think enough to make me feel pretty sure.

How sure are you going to feel when he turns around and denies everything, and comes up with plausible stories for what you've found?

If you're dead set that you want to leave, then it doesn't really matter whether he's committed adultery or not, you can just wait two years and divorce on groups of separation.

If you're undecided, you could consider hiring a private investigator I suppose, although it would be expensive given you believe it's going on abroad.

[hellsbellsmelons]

Get an STI check as well.
Look after your own sexual health until you know for sure.

[whattheactualf]

Inthebox, yes I do want to go on the holiday. There actually isn't any tension because I haven't discussed any of this with him. We are getting on well and he thinks everything is fine. Part of me wanting to go is desperately clinging on to or family time which means the world to me, and may be our last trip together. I want to enjoy the time, and want us to be a family. I actually don't want to end things at all, but know that it's not right to go on like this either.

'We' have two properties in home country, mortgage is in his name only. They are both currently occupied by tenants. I do not have any family where I am, and some friends but not really what I'd describe as close friends. I think I would have to stay for a while as alternative is take DCs thousands of miles away from DH. I am looking into options for work as currently not working (have a small baby). Previous employer said I can come back in January. Salary isn't great though.

Re. financial Ducks. Properties mentioned above. We have savings in my name and another savings/pension plan in his name which his company contributes to. I would be relying on him to support us 100% until January. Well, February. And then contribute thereafter.

I had planned to bring this up on Tuesday evening after our holiday. Is that a bad idea?

[whattheactualf]

pocketsaviour, that's what I'm worried about. That he will convince me that nothing has happened and I won't end up ending things. I can actually see it. I surprised myself by making this decision today, I don't know if I'm for real. This is why I wanted to get help on here to keep reminding me why I shouldn't stay.

[whattheactualf]

Quiettoolong, don't applaud me yet. I haven't done anything yet. He may well have an explanation and suggest we go to counselling again, he'll do this that and the next thing. How can I stop myself getting sucked in?

[pocketsaviour]

If the marriage is otherwise good, he loves the DCs and parents them well, treats you with respect when he's with you, then I would want proof before making a decision.

There's no way he's going to say "Yes I've been sleeping around while I'm working away" - whether he has or not.

Of course you are perfectly entitled to end it because of his previous infidelity that he admitted (or for any other reason, including "I don't like your ties"), if that's what you want. So if you are determined to finish things, don't let lack of proof hold you back.

[whattheactualf]

No, he is not going to say that. I'm pretty sure he does though. The proof I have is messages between him and colleagues discussing where they are going, the girls, room set up etc (does the hotel allow 'extra guests') type thing. One message asks him how did he manage to explain away the fact that he'd called me at 2.30am. DH says I was fine with it and I was actually glad that he's tried calling. Colleague says my wife would have been very concerned and wanting to know what I was doing up at 2.30am in a place like X.

I think DH has been very careful in his message responses- he joins in with the discussion but without directly implicating himself iyswim. I suspect because he's been caught out before, he doesn't want to put anything in writing.

I don't want to leave. I really don't. The alternative is be lied to every business trip he goes ond and constantly be worried and anxious during that time.

Oh and another strange thing I discovered is he has blocked 6 contacts on whats app. Why would that be? So I hope to confront him about that too- I can't think what plausible explanation he could possibly have for that.

[Enoughalreadyyou]

I've been in your position and never suspected a thing. Cheating on trips for about twenty years. It's sounds very disrespectful but not definite evidence.

But if he makes you feel like he's having his cake etc that's no way to live. You need to take control. Either leave or monitor his messages bank account etc. that should tell you all you need to know.

[Jenna333]

I was cheated on a number of times but didn't want to believe it or follow my gut feeling. I wish I had and got our earlier. stick to your gut feeling.

[whattheactualf]

Enoughalreadyyou, what did you do?

[Enoughalreadyyou]

Hi just seen you're question. Found out four years ago that he used escorts on work trips or said he was working late. Found out by checking internet history and saw he'd been looking at a local brothel. Never knew they existed. Dumb.
So shocked let him stay. I know. Doubts and insecurities led me to have PTSD. But every time I wanted support he had a meltdown and would rage.

Really really regret not getting rid as soon as I found out but was so ground down found that I couldn't. Delusion.

So have only just started to divorce. He won't leave so have completely detached.

Not saying your dh is that bad but I recognise the loss of trust and how hard it is to live like that. I spent months tracking back through bank records and I'm glad I did or he would have carried on.

Anyway I now recognise that you need their complete truth and support otherwise you sort of lose control of your own life and you end up living a lie.

Starting to feel so much better know that I don't give a shit. Some men are just idiots.

[Enoughalreadyyou]

I would wait awhile before confronting him. Get organised and financially ready as others have said.

[AcrossthePond55]

Do nothing and say nothing until you have spoken to a solicitor. Not only do you need to get your financial ducks in a row, you need to know where you stand legally with regards to the property (even if it is in his name only) and savings pots as well as what you can expect in maintenance. Only after you realistically know what's what financially and have decided what YOU plan to do should you broach your suspicions to him.

You can bet your boots that your 'D'H will run to a solicitor the second you let him know you are on to him. Do NOT expect him to play fair. That's why you need to come from a position of knowledge before you confront him.

[whattheactualf]

Ah I'm already reat struggling to keep quiet for the next 4 days!

[whattheactualf]

Next 5 days. Really need to get it off my chest and wondering how I can wait until Tuesday before saying anything.

[whattheactualf]

EnoughAlready how long did you stay after finding out

[Enoughalreadyyou]

Stayed four years but he's still here. Complete waste of time thought I could fix things for the dc. Thought he would change but I didn't realise that was up to him. Think I was very naive.
Self esteem badly hit which seems ridiculous now. The whole thing was so abnormal but I couldn't see it.
He was very shy respected guy. Both professionals with fantastic lifestyle. He thought he was entitled to get his needs met elsewhere. Once the mask slipped he proved to be a very ugly person. Pretended to be very good dad. His councillor declared him a sex addict. Just downright nuts I'd say.
The trust was never there again and it's just impossible to get past.
They will lie and twist and turn and blame you.

If he promised to change that was for him to make things better not you. Those texts are disrespectful at best. Blocking sounds strange. If I were you I'd wait because he'll just talk himself out of trouble. Sort legal stuff then you know where you stand. Remember cheaters aren't your friend they'll do anything to keep you in your compartment and will feel genuinely put upon if you question them.

[whattheactualf]

Thanks all again. My heart is in my mouth constantly and I just seen to have this nervous feeling all the time. Today I printed everything I have- a very vulgar picture from 6 years ago, hotel reservation, screenshots of messages with his colleague, screenshots of my conversations with him which highlight a repeated pattern of lies (i.e. Him saying he'll call me when he gets back to the hotel and then me messaging him asking about the call that didn't happen, and the the next day him saying he fell asleep or something similar), dates of trips, a questionable money transfer, the blocked contacts. All the while I felt weak and shaky whilst doing this. I have asked on a local forum about a solicitor recommendation as I really do not know where to start. Had hoped to make an appointment for Wednesday but haven't heard anything back. DC1s friends came round for a little birthday celebration which was lovely and a very welcome distraction. When DH joined later the shaky, anxious, heart-in-mouth feeling came rushing back but at the same time I was really happy to see him and have him join in with cake and candles etc. and share our day. It's all very confusing. I need to remember what you are all saying about cheaters and keep that in my mind.

[AcrossthePond55]

The way you are feeling is normal. You aren't used to keeping secrets, are you. Not like him.

Just try some deep breathing and remind yourself that there is a reason and a purpose to all you are doing.

And, after all, you aren't doing anything that he hasn't been doing for years.

[saltnpepa]

It's finished isn't it? Unless you can accept this is your lot in life. Sounds absolutely dreadful.

[whattheactualf]

I think so saltnpepa but I now keep toing and froing about whether or not I want to be without him. The heart says no, but the head says yes as I know that spending my time snooping and being lied to when he's away on business is not the right thing to do. It's just so difficult. Last night I was feeling calm and mellow and we had a nice time hanging out- maybe cos I'd been drinking? I'm now looking forward to our short holiday as family time means the absolute world to me. I love it. I'm so heartbroken that it's not really real and will probably all be over soon. Struggling to accept that and clinging to maybe.

[whattheactualf]

That's why I started this thread, to try and keep me from changing my mind about ending things.

[AcrossthePond55]

That's what makes it so hard, those little good times. It makes you think it's 'worth it' or that 'he'll change'. But it's not worth it and he won't change. You deserve so much more than he will ever give you.