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What help is out there for abusive men?

(35 Posts)
HelpmehelpBro Sun 28-Jun-15 09:03:28

I have a brother who is seriously worrying me.
He's 26, lives with my mum, has a wife and a 9 month old son.

She's 25, they got together 3 years ago. Relationship has always been turbulent to say the least. There's no other term I can use other than they're both "ghetto" "street" all that lifestyle of drinking, selling drugs(him), raves, cheating (him) etc.. Think of your typical guy on the streets in London and that's my brother.

He's been off the rails from around the age of 17, dropped out of college and has been in prison for fighting numerous of times.

She on the other has been to Uni and was a dental nurse, somehow she let him bring her down to his level and, although my mother and I warned her to stay away from him, she fell pregnant and they got married shortly after.

We're Muslim so we pretty much had to get them married to respect the girl.

Fast forward to now, numerous incidents of him claiming she's outside clubbing/meeting men/drinking etc.. So he goes to her mums house intoxicated threatening to kill her and break the door down.

He's trashed my mums house, slapped both my mum and me in front of my kids ( I stay overnight on the weekends as I work weekday evening and one weekend, mum is my child care). We kicked him out following this incident as my dd1 (4) witnessed it.

There's been another incident today, I can't deal with this anymore. My mums in bits, we all work aside from him, my dad is useless because he over indulges him ( think he has his own issues as his mum died when he was born and he was brought to England to study abroad in the 70s so he felt abandoned and he endured racism) .

He promised to change so my mum let him back in after he cried his eyes out.

I should add that my SIL has a form for winding him up, I am with another guy, I'm out what you going to do? That type of stupidness... I've told her several times to not answer his calls, cut contact, get a divorce, call the police because antagonising him will escalate things.

He was helping her move her stuff in her new flat the other day. So she's clearly not following my advice.

What can we do as a family? We've suggested sending him back home but we're from a place where there's lot of extremism so my mum fears for him, besides he doesn't speak anything other than English, has never been back home and hasn't got a clue about the culture.

Any programmes? Rehab?

Thank you for reading.

chickenfuckingpox Sun 28-Jun-15 09:09:54

there is a perpetrators programme run by women's aid but he has to want to change x

is there a relative in the uk he could stay with ?

BonnieNoClyde Sun 28-Jun-15 09:16:35

I don't knnow if they ever change within a relationship. I think they learn to behave better when eyes are on them, and they learn maybe not to reveal their sense of entitlement or their quick temper or their selfishness until later in a relationship, but do they learn that it is wrong and unfulfilling and an inferior relationship to expect somebody to meet all of their needs and sublimate their own? No. I don't think so.

Report everything. Calling your xsil names? verbal abuse. Call the police. Bully your mother? That's not on either. Report the abuse. Don't make excuses for him.

it can be a shock for abusive men to realise that the law doesn't support them in controlling the women in their lives.

HarveySpectre Sun 28-Jun-15 09:29:45

flowers helpme

I'm afraid I don't have any advice. But you might want to try posting in the Relationship section. There are lots of rreally helpful women there with knowledge and experience x

Branleuse Sun 28-Jun-15 09:32:36

hitman?

HelpmehelpBro Sun 28-Jun-15 09:40:56

I will vet it loved but I thought there may be more posters who can also advice us on alcohol and cannabis abuse.

He's pretty much been smoking weed since leaving school. Most of his problems stem from that.

He's actually respectful and reserved when not intoxicated so I'm thinking whether he'll change if we treat this problem first?

I take the same stance as bonnie on clamping down on any aggregation by calling the police on him, my mum does this when she reaches a low point but most of the times she talks him into calming down. It's a cycle of him apologising and her letting him back in with no actual plan put in place.

As a mother what can she do? I absolutely dislike him, stopped talking to him for months, but obviously part of me cares and wants to help him.

He wasn't always like this. 2 years ago he for beaten up and the weapon pierced his head, a couple of days later he was rushed to hospital and they found meningitis in his brain. He's never been the same since. Could it be related?

HelpmehelpBro Sun 28-Jun-15 09:43:34

Move it there not vet it loved

Bran I totally get your reaction, I can't believe my brother turned into one of those men.

HarveySpectre Sun 28-Jun-15 09:45:17

Does he think he has/is a problem? Would he go to the doctors?

HelpmehelpBro Sun 28-Jun-15 09:55:01

Mt mum mentioned going to the GP and he half heatedly agreed. She didn't follow it through hmm

I have to be careful what I say because he thinks I'm out to make life harder for him( I don't sugar coat anything).

Tbh he went to the GP last year with his W and doctor sent him back with another month to see her in a month's time shock no help was given/ information.

Our last attempt will be to try locating some place which deals with alcohol abuse and anger management, offer it to him and should he refuse to then cut all contact.
I don't know where to find these from aside from AA.

He doesn't believe to have a drug problem.

Clutterbugsmum Sun 28-Jun-15 09:59:38

He doesn't believe to have a drug problem. Then nothing you or your family do will help him.

Any need to help/recovery need to come from him/them. Otherwise your just throwing good money after bad.

chickenfuckingpox Sun 28-Jun-15 10:03:00

he needs rehab unfortunately he needs to hit rock bottom which means everyone needs to stop accepting apologies and let him take consequences alone

so if he hurts your mom she needs to chuck him out it will be hard for her do doubts about it but she needs to stop allowing the behaviour

MeepyMupp Sun 28-Jun-15 10:13:28

From the two domestically abusive men I have had in my life I can say, in regards to them at least , that they can't change. It has to be understood that they firmly believe that they are not in the wrong at all, that they are very much in the right and there is nothing wrong with their behaviour whatsoever. Nothing will shake that core belief that they hold. It's not even a case of denial, where they deep down know they are abusive and acting in a way that is detrimental to those in their lives, they behave like that because they believe it is their right. Things like anger management is pointless as they are not angry, its about control and the presupposition that they are totally correct in the way they act.

HarveySpectre Sun 28-Jun-15 12:58:46

I don't know much about abuse. But I lived with an alcoholic for 12 years.

It is very telling that after your mum spoke to him, he agreed to go to the Dr, but she didn't follow it through. Or was that just a typo?

You absolutely cannot get help for an addict. They really do have to come to that place by themselves. You cant love them better. Or nag them better. Or shout or hope them better.

What you and definitely your mum should do, is go to AL-ANON. They support friends and family of alcoholics. If you can get his wife there, she is probably in need of it most. Addiction is called a family disease for a reason.

Google CO-DEPENDANT. A book I would recommend is 'Co-Dependant No More'. I forget the author, ill look it up for you...

HelpmehelpBro Sun 28-Jun-15 14:34:18

Thank you.

I'm sorry for your experience Meepy thanks

You read that correctly Harvey, she didn't follow it through.

Without sounding dramatic, I'm so scared that he might actually kill her, their dynamic is not normal. She's very feisty and knows which buttons to press but then gets scared when he blows up.

I've told her numerous times for her safety to cut all contact with him but gets back with him after he apologises.

I've told her to not show him her flat, she went against that and invited him to stay over. Now he's talking of burning it down.

I actually want him locked up for his own safety so that he may sober up.

HarveySpectre Sun 28-Jun-15 14:43:46

but HE should be following it up, not her

would she go to AlAnon with you?

book

Vivacia Sun 28-Jun-15 14:58:29

I actually want him locked up for his own safety so that he may sober up.

Speak to the police then, and tell them about this man behaving like a "typical" man from the streets in London hmm.

WorraLiberty Sun 28-Jun-15 14:59:35

This is just dreadful OP.

You need to call the police every single time he's violent. If he wants to change, this should put him in touch with the relevant people to help him.

I genuinely don't understand why you and your family decided to 'get someone married' to an abusive man.

As for 'sending him home', well he is home already. Besides, how can you physically send a grown man anywhere?

Just don't hesitate to call the police every single time he's abusive.

AttilaTheMeerkat Sun 28-Jun-15 15:03:03

"He's actually respectful and reserved when not intoxicated so I'm thinking whether he'll change if we treat this problem first?"

And how often is he really not intoxicated?.

Its not "we" at all either. Any willingness to change has to come from him and without any familial coercion. Unless he is willing to accept that he does have a problem then there is no point in trying to help him. Besides which he does not want your help and you are in no position to try and help him. You cannot save anyone who does not want to be saved.

No drugs program will take him readily because they will see that he does not want help. He would currently be simply taking a place from someone who is willing to have help.

Your parents have to take some responsibility here because they have enabled their son. Enabling him as they have done has only given them a false sense of control.

re this comment:-
"Our last attempt will be to try locating some place which deals with alcohol abuse and anger management, offer it to him and should he refuse to then cut all contact".

No to any of that; any attempts by family to intervene will not work out at all. You'll be wasting your time. He does NOT want your help and you as individuals are in no place yourselves to help him.

If you really do want to help him then help you first. You certainly need to go to Al-anon and I would also read Codependent No More written by Melodie Beattie.

pocketsaviour Sun 28-Jun-15 15:06:16

Is there anyone that your brother looks up to? An older cousin or uncle? (Not your dad as you've already said he's useless.) Does he attend mosque? Could you seek help from there?

The problem is, you can't make him change. He will only change if and when he wants to change.

Brain injuries can cause personality change, but from what you say his behaviour has been problematic since long before this. So I don't think you can lay his attitude down to that.

BonnieNoClyde Sun 28-Jun-15 15:59:42

I should have explained, although it sounds very harsh (perhaps) to say 'ring the police' every single time he bullies your mum or is verbally abusive to your sil, Lundy Bancroft explains it well in his book. The consequences of being abusive can be privileges, within the family or within a relationship. Ie, every time a wife asks her husband to wash up, he picks an enormous row with her about nothing much. Abusive behaviour. She ''learns'' from that not to ask him to do anything. So, the consequence of his bad behaviour is a privilege.
This needs to be met head on. The consequence of bad behaviour needs to be the opposite of a privilege. Trouble. The police. A caution. Whatever the police might do or say.

I'm not claiming to be an expert but I know that when I tried to be kind and understanding to my x he was a nightmare. It was only when I finally caved in and used the law to help me protect myself that he finally stopped treating me as an outlet for his own anger and frustrations and disappointments. he also had a sad childhood. blah blah blah. But sure, my own parents were benignly neglectful.

frankbough Mon 29-Jun-15 06:43:31

Do not go to AL non and do not read books about co dependency and do not send him to AA.. It is not a disease.. His anger and drinking are a learned response to stress..

Vivacia Mon 29-Jun-15 09:29:23

confused

Vivacia Mon 29-Jun-15 09:30:10

Do not go to AL non and do not read books about co dependency and do not send him to AA.. It is not a disease.. His anger and drinking are a learned response to stress..

What a non sequitur!

BonnieNoClyde Mon 29-Jun-15 09:57:53

Well, who says co-dependency is a disease? co-dependency is learned and there are ways to recognise it and break old patterns. He doesn't sound co-dependent though. He sounds abusive.

Abusive behaviour usually brings rewards. ie, not having to do childcare, not having to do housework. Not being made responsible for important things. Lundy Bancroft explains it well. Don't over analyse abusive men. If they don't care that those around them fear them rather than like them, there are a lot of rewards to being abusive and the only way to make an abusive man less abusive is to try and (with protection, from the law if necessary) eliminate the rewards that come with abusive, selfish and controlling behaviour.

BonnieNoClyde Mon 29-Jun-15 09:59:29

ps, and it's not a reaction to 'stress'.
It's a determination to get their way whatever the cost. Stressed is how they present when they're not getting their way? Their 'stress' frightens people around them, which is precisely the desired effect.

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