Physical in row - playing on my mind

[grizzlegrumps]

Had a petty row with DH on Sat. Neither of us would back down and we were bickering in the car with children in the back.

He was visibly getting more and more wound up and telling me to shut up (admit I was a bit scared) and then he reached across and put his hand across my mouth and spat "just shut up!".

I was shocked and also livid and did call him a psychopath and told him to let me out of the car.

Things calmed down a bit and then heated up again at home away from kids. He refused to admit he was wrong for original petty row and that I shouldn't have shouted in front of kids. I told him that he shouldn't have physically touched me in front of them to which he replied "you're lucky I didn't smack you in the face, you should've just shut up". He did eventually apologies but only once I'd said I shouldn't have shouted in front of kids.

I'm trying to forget this as it's probably only the second time in ten years he's ever been like that at all - never laid a finger on me but threatened to. Totally out of character (although he can be quite controlling) but it's playing on my mind.

He really bloody scared me and I was quite worried he'd hit me.

Do I bring it up again or just leave it? we've had a rocky-ish six months but things have (had) been awesome recently and so his has knocked me. We've got two boys 4&2.

[AnyFucker]

Nice example your husband is showing your boys there

I wouldn't leave it, but I would leave him

nobody has the right to put their hands on you to get you to STFU even if you were shouting

and he has form ?

poor show...and if you tolerate this you will regret it

[CalleighDoodle]

I dont like the sound of your relationship at all. The tow was apparently petty but you needed to go on and on and on and on shouting at him, with children watching and listening, while he was supposed to be concentrating on driving? That could have caused an accident. Over something you said was petty. What was the point? Was it an issue that could be resolved or just something you wanted to say he was wrong about!? To the point he feels no option othen than he has to physically stop you?! Ridiculous! You are NOT in the right here! What you did was dangerous! And pointless!

If he is controlling that wont change. People dont change. He scared you? Thats wrong.

You are not good for each other. That behaviour is not good for your children.

Leave.

[pocketsaviour]

Nice logic there Calleigh
To the point he feels no option othen than he has to physically stop you?!

Fuck OFF... there's always an option other than basically hitting someone.
He could have:
Stopped the car
Be silent and just not responded
Shouted louder
etc

I'm not suggesting OP is an angel as the row was clearly escalated from both sides.

"you're lucky I didn't smack you in the face, you should've just shut up"
Implications of this are "maybe next time I will"

OP he is telling you that you are "lucky" he didn't hit you. He feels it's acceptable to hit you, his partner and mother of his children, probably in front of those children, if he's angry enough. Is that something you want to stick around for?

[BitOutOfPractice]

Calleigh ODFOD

My tolerance for anyone laying a finger on me in anger is zero

And as PPs have said - what model is this for your sons?

[FuckMeLikeAnOcean]

"you're lucky I didn't smack you in the face, you should've just shut up"

OP you are a lottery winner.

I want to know what you said to him. I want to know his response. If you can, please.

[MrsHathaway]

You're afraid of being hit - that's awful and no way to live. Don't let that become the normal state for any of you.

It sounds like you don't like each other very much at the moment. I read an interesting blog recently about 4yos being utter demons very challenging and 4y post natal being a peak for depression in the parents. When I've had a 4yo I've also had a 1/2yo so it's hard to tell but it does ring bells. Do you think you're both temporarily having a hard time and he's just reacting terribly to it, or do you think it's deeper?

I agree with AF that violence should be a deal breaker but if it isn't for you yet then those are my thoughts.

[grizzlegrumps]

Really didn't want to have to do an aibu on the row but here goes. End of an OK shopping trip (he generally hates shopping BTW). Both boys had slept (worth adding that I carried them both to sleep, this isn't normal BTW but I was trying to reduce 'stress',of shopping).

left him with boys as I nipped in to one last shop as I'd forgotten to get something for ds1. we'd debated him heading to car but I said I'd be 5 so just wait. Nipped off, came back and saw from top floor him getting drink. By the time I'd got there they were gone. I'd left my phone with them so spent 5-10 mins looking in immediate vicinity, thinking he'd gone to toy shop or something. Went to info desk to try and call him, no answer, left shitty-ish message saying where are you. Did a tannoy, nothing. Called again and got him and he was "I'm in the car, obvs". I was fuming by then. He hadn't even bothered to wait and I'd wasted ages hunting around for him.

Neither would back down - his view was that he'd "obviously" gone back to car. I argued that it clearly wasn't bloody "obvious" hence I'd wasted fecking ages hunting. And he hasn't even bothered to wait for 30 seconds as I saw them!

Anyway, stupid bloody argument that totally didn't warrant what happened next.

[SpendMeLikeAnOcean]

Of course it didn't.

The plot is irrelevant. Its not a good story. It needs to be rewritten, in your way.

[grizzlegrumps]

It came out of nowhere and he was actually shaking with rage and spitting his words out. That's the bit that scared me.

He's generally a very calm, carefree individual. We've had rows and now I think about it, he's only ever been like this once after a few drinks. I've also been a twat when drunk in the past, so hadn't really thought about it.

But this was sober and really out of character. Which has made me look at him very differently. I also really dislike the fact he didn't really concede that he was waaaay out of line. Despite me saying that there's absolutely no excuse for him to ever laying a fucking finger on me! It would almost have been better for him to say "shit, I'm so sorry, totally let my emotions get the better of me, Argh, scary!". But he didn't. Which makes me worry that he thinks it was OK/deserved

Feel like we need to talk about this more. He's out tonight and we're going on hols with his family tomorrow eve (another thread!! ).

[grizzlegrumps]

sorry for not acknowledging replies BTW. appreciate what people have said.

[Jackw]

My concern would be that it will escalate. First time, he was drunk. Second time he was sober, minor physical bullying and pretty extreme hostility with the threat of more violence. What will happen on the third occasion? I think you are right to feel that this is worrying.

Counselling? To help you both learn to deal with conflict more effectively and before a really damaging pattern sets in.

Certainly, I don't think you should just brush it off because you've both said sorry because that allows him to think that this is OK if he says sorry afterwards (but only after you have said sorry too).

Do you feel able to bring it up again when you have the space and calm for a proper discussion? Tell him how his behaviour made you feel and that you think you need to get some help with how to deal with similar arguments in the future.

I don't think the circumstances of the argument are important enough to dwell on. We've all had stupid rows that seem to explode out of trivia and we've all behaved in ways we are ashamed of later once we've calmed down, but I think you have recognised that a line has been crossed.

[missqwerty]

Your right to be alarmed by the covering of your mouth. However, it sounds like you tried to hammer the point home and verbally beat him into submission. Was there any need for you to be so hot headed, probably not. You both have anger issues imo, only his escalated

[L0gLady]

Miss Qwerty, are you Calleigh?

[grizzlegrumps]

Thanks Jack.

He was out this eve, not long back and woke me up, I'm now stewing.

I'm getting wound up at the fact he doesn't ever really apologize. I've been having counselling for my own issues and one of them being my willingness to always be quite submissive in our relationship. Feel I don't deserve him etc. I've inadvertantly 'let' him behave in quite a controlling way and it came to a head earlier this year when I got involved in an EA.

Nothing more came of that and it's all died down. However, I sought counselling to work out how/why I'd let myself get in that sitch. Which is when I first became more aware of this dynamic.

Yes, we probably do need joint counselling. I know I want my marriage to work. I don't want to be married to a controlling (or violent) person though. Which I'm scared he might be

[NameChange30]

"You're lucky I didn't smack you in the face"

'He can be quite controlling'

This man is abusive. You need to leave him, for the sake of you and your children. If you need advice and support to do so, please call Women's Aid on 08082000247. Please.

[NameChange30]

Also, he is not behaving "out of character". This IS his character! Controlling and aggressive.

[NameChange30]

OP check out this list of questions. They are signs of domestic abuse.

[FeijoaSundae]

He threatens you and can be quite controlling.

This is not 'totally out of character'. It's completely 'in' character.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Two times too many. The only acceptable level of abuse within a relationship is NONE.

You are seeing the real him and this is all part of the nice/nasty cycle abusive men do.

And you are still together at all because.....

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

Why do you want this to still work?. Feelings of failure, shame, guilt, social embarrassment on your part if it does not?.

Why have you taken on such a submissive role; what did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?. Was your mother or father similarly submissive with the other being overtly dominant?. Feeling that you do not deserve him has put you in a real bind; where did this all come from, this not being good enough for him nonsense?.

Is this really a role model of a marriage to show your sons; that this is how people treat each other in marriage?. For them to grow up to learn from you both and replicate this in their own adult relationships?.

Joint counselling is the last thing you need; its never at all recommended where there is abuse within the relationship and controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour. NO decent counsellor would ever see the two of you together.

[missqwerty]

Log lady. Just because my opinion is different to yours doesn't mean I'm wrong! I agreed he was wrong to physically abuse her but she was wrong to verbally abuse. Yes she could do with leaving him bug she could also do to learn to control her anger

[Skiptonlass]

There's no amount of verbal provocation that justifies a physical response.

When children verbally wind you up, you don't hit/slap/restrain them

When your boss is being an absolute, unmitigated vile horror to you, you do not put your hand over her mouth to silence her.

Any adult who responds physically to a verbal insult is in the wrong.

[grizzlegrumps]

Thanks all for input.

I've got issues from my childhood which has led me to be the way I am and for our relationship dynamic to be quite so lopsided. No decent point of reference, sexual abuse (that no one aside from my counsellor and MN knows about), and a whole load of 'dad issues'. In short, I am pretty fucked up.

I've got a decent, well-paid job and am generally a very confident outgoing person.

However, I have enabled DH to control me more and more and I'm wondering if the escalation at the weekend was because I didn't back down as I normally would. I've been feeling much stronger of late (due to co
unselling and end of EA) and things had ironically been better than they had in a long while.

we're going away with his family later for a week. I was already dreading it (his dad controlling etc) and now I am more!

I'm going to raise it as/when we have a calm and quiet time. I want to explain to him exactly how he's made me feel and that I've lost a lot of respect for him. I'm also questioning who/what he is. He has crossed a line and if there is ever any hint of anything like that again, I'll be gone.

I am allowed to get cross, as is he. But neither of us is entitled to violence in any shape or form.

[CalleighDoodle]

Of course you are allowed to get cross, but shouting and shouting and shouting at someone who is driving, in a car with your children, in a stuation where nobody is able to leave is unacceptable. That is not a way to have a discussion.

he is controlling and he makes you feel scared of him / his actions in other ways. That is unacceptable.

The longer this goes on the worse it gets.

If youve lost respect for him, are genetally scared of him and feel controlled, why would you continue in this marriage anyway?

[NameChange30]

Calleigh
"Of course you are allowed to get cross, but shouting and shouting and shouting at someone who is driving, in a car with your children, in a stuation where nobody is able to leave is unacceptable. That is not a way to have a discussion."

I think you've slightly got the wrong end of the stick. They weren't having a "discussion", they were having an argument! Both people were shouting not one person "shouting and shouting and shouting". The OP may not have acted perfectly but we all get angry and shout sometimes. I can imagine that with an abusive, controlling husband, it's hard not to. Her shouting does not excuse her husband's physical aggression.