Possible gaslighting? What can I do?

[LoveWA]

I don't even know how to start this post or whether I'm going to sound like a raving loony but I'm so fed up and confused I need perspective, opinions, advice.. I'd be grateful for whatever anyone can offer as I'm blank.

As with most relationships, occasionally I get upset over something my DH has done or not done or said or whatever. This might happen maybe once a week or maybe once in two weeks. His reaction is starting to wear me down.

It usually goes that I tell my DH that I'm upset and why, as clearly as I can. Immediately he gets extremely defensive in body language (he stands still, stiffens up etc) but he puts on a confused face and pretends he hasn't heard or understood what I'm saying. So I have to repeat myself clearly again, using the same language, tone and words that I have just said. He generally then shrugs his shoulders as if to say I don't know what your talking about. So I explain myself again. Then he will either deny or say I'm wrong or tell me to get over things... but never ask me questions to see where I'm coming from, to see why I might have been so upset, never explains where he is coming from or why he might have acted the way he did.

I don't like to think of myself as a pushover, and I know I am articulate and precise when I speak (although that might seem a stretch going by this post sorry), so I generally persist with my point of view while looking at his blank expression. It's usually such a faff at this stage to keep repeating myself to someone who is clearly not interested and not going to engage with me. He goes quiet and won't talk to me, won't answer me, totally shuts down. Its so frustrating and exhausting that I generally let things go for the sake of peace, and if I'm honest, because I hate to see myself turn into some sort of nagging needy wife, so I generally say what's on my mind, explain why I wasn't impressed and then just get on with things. Our kids are tiny to we're both always busy in the house anyway.

However, in the last two weeks, two occasions have arisen where I have persisted with him when I felt he was in the wrong but ignoring me when I said I was upset. One occasion was after he said I was being lazy over a certain matter. I was not being lazy but I thought as we are both so busy day to day that he probably wasn't aware of the effort I was making and I tried to explain everything I was doing to show him I was not being lazy, but he wouldn't listen to me and instead shouted at me that I was just looking for a fight, and he wasn't going to stand there while I tried to pick a fight with him.. but I was simply defending myself against his accusation and he wouldn't listen.

The second time was this evening. I became upset with him after some really insensitive comments were made by a third party and I said I wish he had defended me and shown a bit of loyalty.

He again said I was trying to pick a fight and he wasn't going to listen to it, he stormed out of the room and a while later went to bed (don't live in the Uk).

I know in the morning he will go to work, I will do my day with the kids, he will come home and we'll do dinner and bed time routine and it won't be mentioned again.

But it is really starting to wear me down that nothing gets properly discussed or worked through. I have tried raising things again when heads are cooler and the kids are in bed but the same thing happens, I get met with a blank face, a shrug of the shoulders and eventually told I'm spoiling for a fight and he's not going to give it to me.

Is this gaslighting? Or is it just withdrawal on his part? Am I just a horrible nag? I feel like he can't cope with heavy discussions or even down right difficult discussions so he won't have them with me. But then sometimes I think he just hates to admit he might have been wrong and might need to apologise. He never apologises for anything, ever.

Is there something I can do to break this pattern and get him to engage with me?

[EhricJinglingHisBallsOnHigh]

Is there something I can do to break this pattern and get him to engage with me?

I doubt it, sorry. This is who he is, and I imagine he has always been like that?

[AlfAlf]

Yes, that is gas lighting and stonewalling.
You sound like a good communicator, who wants to discuss and address issues in your relationship as they arise. He wants to sweep them under the carpet, occasionally insult you, and never take responsibility.
Maybe he is afraid of confrontation, but if he was my dh I would deduce that he doesn't have much respect for me or our relationship.
How long have you been with him? Can you think of a time when you worked through a problem together?

[LoveWA]

Yes Alf he never wants to accept responsibility for being in the wrong.

We've been together 10 years. The first few years he fell over himself to make me happy, to listen, to talk things through.

We had an easy life for a lot of years in that we both worked in good jobs, had plenty of money, socialised a lot together and separately.

I think in the last few years having children close together, my career taking a back seat, daily life just feeling more like drudgery (even though we are both happy, but family life can be hard), he seems to have given up caring if that makes sense?

Yes he is being disrespectful. And no, I can't really think of a time where we worked through anything difficult together. Difficult decisions have been made by me. Now that I think of it, all of the big difficult decisions have been made by me. I find his opinions on certain matters change daily depending on who he is talking to.. so I just get in with things myself.

[LoveWA]

*get on with things myself

[Justasitis]

I can relate to this. My marriage is completely dead as a result. I can't stand the sight of him. Now we just completely ignore each other. I live abroad too so navigating our return away from this complete tit.

[BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted]

His interpretation of you trying to discuss any difficulty or difference of approach is to accuse you of spoiling for a fight. This is a man who quite likely believes he has you where he wants you and won't be tolerating any rocking of the boat. Most especially if it requires any effort on his part to engage or even listen.

WE ALL DESERVE TO BE LISTENED TO even if we don't necessarily agree with another's point of view. This arsehole just cuts you off.

I fear this is not going to get any better. At least while you are dependent upon him.



"The first few years he fell over himself to make me happy, to listen, to talk things through."

So he can give the impression that he gives a shit but now he doesn't have to bother. What you are seeing now is the real man you married. You need to decide whether you are prepared to give another couple of decades to this prick or not but I doubt that there is any real prospect of change.

[LoveWA]

Justasitis, sorry to hear that. Can you tell me what you tried to get your other half to communicate before giving up?

[LoveWA]

Bitter, that's a big fear for me, that this is the real him. I'm clinging to the hope that there is something I can do.. that there is a way to communicate in a way that will engage him, and that he will have a light bulb moment and be kind again..

[UncrushedParsley]

Love I used to to think that if I could only explain things in the right way, he would 'get it'. I wasted many years banging my head against a brick wall. Bottom line he wasn't interested in me being happy, only himself. We are now divorced. Please don't waste as much time as I did flogging a dead horse.

[LoveWA]

When I'm not challenging him his praise for me flows, he tells me how smart I am constantly. Not that I ever doubt myself in that sense, but he says it anyway.

But when I challenge him on anything.. forget it, shut down.

God I'm starting to feel silly.

Is he that bad..? Have I been blind? How did I not see this coming?

[LoveWA]

I think he does want me to be happy, but he doesn't want and turmoil in his life.

[Tinks42]

Unfortunately you can't MAKE someone communicate with you. All you will do is continue in this pattern until one of you leave's the other.

It's time for you to stop jumping through hoops, take a step back and watch instead of react.

It seems like he has emotionally detached.

[meoryou]

OP this is my life too.... ten years married. ten years suffering with anx&dep.

I have turned myself inside out and back to front in order to be fairer when I bring up something i expect my DH wont like. However, it doesn't seem to matter what I try. Honestly - yesterday we argued loudly. He was that busy trying to turn the 'discussion' in on itself that he didn't even hear when I said I agreed with him over a point he had made.

He later apologised for the shambolic behaviour, that he doesn't want to live like that. Huh could have fooled me. I guess what I am saying is that you're not alone. How strongly do you feel about him as your partner. Do you imagine growing old with him?

[Tinks42]

Do you imagine growing old with your partner meoryou?

Do you think thats what youre worth?

Do you actually think that you have to put up with it?


We arent in the 1800 here...


Fuck sake.

[ocelot7]

Is this a two-way process ie does he also tell you when you have upset him? If so - what happens next?

[delaselva]

I don't know about gaslighting exactly (but no expert) but I think he is training you to never raise any complaint with him.

Because of his reaction I doubt you race to ask him to help you more, or support you more, be more considerate. I bet he has to push you so far you're head is reeling with the injustice before you challenge him, (right?) and even then he completely fails to acknowledge that he's hurt you.

So you talk about breaking the pattern. The pattern is controlled by him right now. He behaves with a lack of consideration towards you and you are being trained to be less and less likely to challenge him &/or raise it with him less and less frequently.

He's bringing you to heel. You'll get to the point where you never complain. He'll like you best of all then. He'll think you're getting on well finally.

And then, I hope, you'll leave.

[delaselva]

ps, you are making the mistake of believing that if you could just explain it better he will finally understand, that if you could just find the right words he'd finally see it from your point of view! so you keep trying

But you're wrong. He just isn't motivated to see it from your point of view, which is hard for him when you keep presenting him with such logic and such reason! how awkward. So he has to punish you for raising the issues with a black humour and a complete refusal to acknowledge that you have a point.

There are rewards to stonewalling you and there are rewards to never ever seeing your point of view and there are rewards to being selfish.

I don't know what those rewards are, but it could be anything from doing no housework to him socialising with his friends every weekend to spending all the disposable income, having lie ins, having more SAY, more power, more control in the relationship. These are the rewards a man gets when he 'can't' see your point of view.

[ocelot7]

OP you say when you are not "challenging" him he is full of supportive words for you - is it possible you are going about this the wrong way e.g. explaining the same thing over & over & coming across as confrontational? And I really wonder if he gets to ask the same of you...

[PoppyField]

I had one like this. It was all kinds of headfuck and I spent a long time - like deselva - thinking that if I could only explain better, he would understand and stop doing things that hurt me or would stop whatever kind of horrible stuff he was doing at the time. This did not happen. The truth is/was that I am an articulate, logical person who could easily get her point across to absolutely anyone - except him.

It was not a communication problem, it was an abuse problem. And he 'turned nasty' right after we had our first child and it got worse and worse after our second, by which time I was fully groomed.

You have explained your situation very lucidly and recognisably to us. You have no problem making sense. Like other people have said, this is his way of silencing you, of controlling you, so that ultimately you are so exhausted you never so much as raise an opinion about the weather.

It's vile.

I disagree totally with ocelot7 - this is not you going about things the wrong way. This man is messing with your head and your self-esteem. It will get worse. Don't waste years searching for the 'nice' man you married.

Unfortunately, the man you married is the one you've got now.

Awful for you OP, but face it now and you can make changes for you and your children. You are not going mad. It suits him to make you mad - what kind of monster does that? What kind of husband would rather have a wife that was distressed and confused, instead of an equal partner with a mind of her own? Don't waste your time trying to work out why he does this, just know that is what he does and make plans to get out of it. The only way to stop him being like this is to end the relationship. This man is hooked on bullying you, it's the way he gets things to go his way. He won't go back to being the nice guy.

[delaselva]

Good post PoppyField.

I disagree with Ocelot too, as I know when the fight went out of me as it did sporadically when I was with my x, he would suddenly smile at me and say 'we're getting on so well now' and do something to reward my good behaviour. It was literally training, petting the dog on its head for good behaviour. When I was in put up and shut up mode, too drained to argue, too addled to think straight, to weary to put forward any opinion; that was the me he wanted. He wanted a version of me that had a heightened awareness of all of his needs and who was fully trained up to sublimate (?) all of her own needs. That was not me, not really, but I wearily became that person, nearly.

Get out while you still have the energy to take a deep breath and run, ykwim?

[ocelot7]

Fine to disagree - I was quoting the OP by the way...
I agree the futility of thinking if only you could explain it a bit better they would understand - I've done that myself.
But I was also wondering how I'd feel being constantly pulled up for things I had said or done that I would just have let go from the other person. That's why I asked if this telling about what is upsetting someone was a two way process - I think it's important that it is.

[LoveWA]

Thanks so much for all of the comments, they are so helpful. I've had a busy day on very little sleep so I will read over everything again tomorrow and try to work out where to go from here.

I am being silenced, I see that now, thanks.

Yes he likes me best when I'm beyond confrontation, when I give up out of total frustration.

I can say honestly that when he has issues with things I might say or do, I take time to reflect and I have no problem apologising where I feel I was an ass. Sometimes I apologise immediately, other times it might take me a few hours or even a day.. but I certainly don't tell him to get over it or pretend I can't understand what he is saying. That's not me at all.

Before he left for work this morning I told him our "fight" wasn't finished and that I was upset for a valid reason and we would discuss it again. He's working late tonight, I'm shattered after a long day with the kids, I can hardly think. But I'm not going to let it go this time, even though the thought of trying to discuss things makes me feel like I need to be sick.

[Drumdrum60]

Sorry you've had so little sleep but I really think you need to read the advice again. If both of you are tired tonight I don't think it would be the best time. You can be guaranteed that his behaviour will be the same to add to your frustration and nothing will be solved.
It's madness to keep doing the same thing and expect a different result.
But if you detach he will probably think everything is ok. It's a no win situation. I wish I knew what the best advice to you would be.

[Drumdrum60]

I would probably write him an email telling him in a constructive way what I wanted. Then leave it up to him.
Sounds like he will carry on as he won't even consider taking responsibility for his ridiculous manipulation.
So I suppose it's up to you.

[LoveWA]

Thanks drum. I'm going to bed now, we won't be discussing anything tonight. To be honest I probably won't get a chance to talk to him properly for a few days with all of the Christmas madness kicking off.

Yes it probably won't make any difference. I guess I'm still willing to try. I don't know how long I'll be willing to try for before giving up but I'm getting close, hence being on here asking for advice.

Yes I agree, I think I can't win either way. He wins when I give up though, which is sickening.