Advice on contact between newborn and stbxh

[Busybee43]

Hi, my Stbxh left 2 weeks ago when DS was 3 months. There were some instances of him pushing me around etc and he has agreed to go to mediation with me to discuss communication.

Can anyone advise on what I should do re contact and DS? I have agreed to see him in a park this weekend as it's too soon for him to see DS at home (and he living 1.5 hours away at his mum's).

What happens when we get divorced given DS young age? What should I offer in the interim? He intends to live 1.5 hours away so not ideal in terms of travel.

Any help gratefully received

[SolidGoldBrass]

Mediation is not recommended when there has been abuse. If your STBXH has been 'pushing you around' he is an abusive bully - and well done for getting rid!
As your DS is still very small, it would generally be recommended that he sees his dad 'little and often'. But no overnights for a good year. An hour or so, once or twice a week, would be regarded as reasonable at present.

Contact is all about the best interests of the child, not any demands made by an abusive man, and if STBXH behaves at all aggressively when you take DS to see him, walk away immediately (and make a note of what happened.)
Is this man competent to look after a baby safely? Are you BFing? Do you think that he actually wants to build a relationship with his DS and be a good father (whatever the reasons for the split) or that he is going to demand his 'rights' as a way to harass, punish and control you?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I agree with SGB on the point that contact has to be in the best interests of the child and not an abusive man. You are obliged to facilitate a reasonable schedule of contact but that doesn't mean bending over backwards, incurring huge costs or agreeing to a very small baby travelling big distances. Suggest you seek legal advice on what is reasonable.

[Abilly72]

Get legal advice and make sure there are strict 'right to see' controls-only supervised visits..be careful

[Busybee43]

Thanks for the advice. I spoke to solicitor yesterday who said to stick to guns re not meeting at home and call police if he turns up there. I am meeting him in a park. (He refused Starbucks on the basis that 'I'm not sitting there drinking coffee with you'). My dad said he'd stay nearby in case I need him.

Stbxh said yesterday when I talked about him pushing me around 'don't start that fucking charade'. He thinks it was ok to push me around. I am still scared of him and he will use access to DS to get to me. I have a DD and her dad's an idiot too (I know how to pick them) and Stbxh knows it sent me into depression and anxiety worrying about her and access.

DS will need feeding whilst we're out. Do I just watch from a bench whilst he does that? If he wants to take DS for a walk what do I do? He knows exactly how to intimidate me and has been emotionally abusing me for a long time so I want to stay strong but I need a plan.

Help please on even the basics of how the visit works!

[SolidGoldBrass]

Have a chat with Women's Aid as well as with your solicitor. I think it might be possible to tell this man to fuck off for the time being and hope he loses interest. Have the police been involved previously because of his violent behaviour? From what you have said it sound like you are (quite reasonably) afraid he will be aggressive again when he sees you. I think (though check with WA and solicitor) that when you have such a little baby and the man has been violent, it is OK to refuse contact altogether for the time being - or insist that it is supervised by someone else. Basically, the aim should be to make contact as difficult and tiresome for the abuser as possible, so that he either gives up and goes away, or behaves badly in front of witnesses so the courts are more inclined to ignore unreasonable demands - or the court will agree he is a danger to the child and allow you to keep on insisting that contact is supervised.

[MrsSquirrel]

Insisting that the contact be supervised by someone else is a good idea. Maybe your dad could come with you and ds to the park. Or just have ds and your dad go to the park with you waiting nearby.

If you are not there, it will be immediately apparent whether xh wants to use the contact to build a relationship with his son (as it should be) or just as a way to get at you.

[Busybee43]

Do you know I'm scared of going with my dad to see him as I think he'll be so nasty to me. Does that mean I should go with my dad?

So many people in RL have said 'oh but did he hit you?' as if I'm making up claims about abuse - and now I've started to half believe it. He's not stable though and I don't trust him.

[BlackeyedSusan]

take your dad. if he is intimidating at all call the police on 999. (google the grid reference/address to the park first)

alternatively don't go at all as you can not trust him to not be intimidating.

[SolidGoldBrass]

Yes, go with your dad, if your dad is willing. Unless you think there is any likelihood of your dad telling STBXH what a shit he is, or hitting him - your dad being angry on your behalf is understandable but you don't want any scenes that might enable your STBXH to play the victim. If your dad is the calm sensible type it would be great to have him with you.

At the moment, by the sound of it, there are no court orders in place regarding contact. So if there is any unpleasant behaviour from STBXH contact just stops and you and your dad walk away. (if one of you can sneak your phone out of your pocket and record STBXH abuse as well that might come in handy.)

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I also think you shouldn't agree to this access if he's going to be abusive. Agree that you're going to need some evidence of his behaviour. Take your father along as a witness, consider recording the conversation and involve the police if it gets nasty. Let him sue for contact if he wants to object. Does he have plenty of money?

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

Perhaps you should think about applying for a child arrangements order (formerly residence order) so that you can be assured that if he made off with DS during contact the police would return him.

[Busybee43]

So I went to see him today and I had to ask 3 times for him to stop being verbally aggressive as otherwise I was leaving. In the end he saw DS for less time than planned

Solidgoldbrass - why is mediation not recommended when there has been abuse? How should we move on both communication?

I tried to record him today and he thought I was texting and he went raving mad about how rude I was.

I think seeing DS is his way of getting to me. He has taken me to a bad place today.

[Busybee43]

One thing I thought I could get out of mediation (aside from the fact that he could learn to be civil) was to talk about him shoving me around and then I have a record of it.

[IUsedToUseMyHands]

OP I copied this and saved it from another recent thread. I can't recall who posted it but it was someone very wise! It's about mediation. I hope the poster doesn't mind me C&Ping it but I thought it was brilliant.

To use mediation is to subscribe to the mistaken idea that abuse is related to "misunderstandings" or lack of communication. If discussion and compromise, the mainstay of mediation, could help in any way most domestic violence situations would be long ago resolved because victims of abuse "discuss and compromise" constantly. Mediation assumes both parties will cooperate to make agreements work; the victim has always 'cooperated' with the abuser; the abuser never cooperates.

Mediation can be and is ordered by judges/courts, as can counselling and mental health evaluations. They are tools in the abuser's arsenal to be used against the victim as often as he chooses. In order for mediation to work and to not make situations worse the parties involved must have equal power and must share some common vision of resolution. This is clearly not present when domestic violence has taken place in a relationship.

Mediation practitioners must be alert to the need to interview partners separately with specially designed questions in order to determine if abuse is or has been present. Many domestic violence professionals can train others to screen safely for domestic violence. To not do so risks unsuccessful mediations, at best, and increasing the victim's danger by colluding with the abuser, at worst.

A person who has been terrorized by an abuser is not free to participate in a mediation process with him, even if the mediator(s) assume or believe that they "understand". Being truthful about any of her needs or experiences in the abuser's presence or proximity practically ensures that she is in more danger later.

The mediator is left with a no win: either the victim's danger is increased, or she is not fully or truthfully participating, or both. The well meaning mediator may actually encourage the victim to feel safe enough to share information that could seriously compromise her safety. In any case the whole intent of mediation is lost.

To engage an abuser and a victim in a process that implies equal responsibility is damaging to both. The victim is once again made to feel responsible for the abuser's behavior, and the abuser is allowed to continue to not accept full responsibility for his behaviour choices.

[SolidGoldBrass]

This man clearly can't behave himself, so right now the best thing to do is cut all contact with him on the grounds of his abusive behaviour. Do you have any abusive emails/texts/letters from him? Keep copies of them. It will take him time and money to go to court and get any kind of access to DS, and if he persists in trying to harass and abuse you, note down every incident, involve the police when necessary (eg if he turns up at your home and tries to force his way in, or causes a disturbance and refuses to leave).

Honestly, forget mediation. You don't need help to 'communicate' with an abuser, you need to block his access to you. If he does bother to go to court (a lot of them don't, because that would cost them money and it takes time) and you have evidence of abusive behaviour, you can insist that contact takes place in public with someone supervising.

[Busybee43]

Thanks again for the posts. The stuff about mediation was excellent.

The trouble is I have no evidence of him pushing me around as I didn't report it. He hasn't sent me abusive texts etc. the only one I have is one this week apologising for giving me a hard time on the phone. I can record him next time I see him but it's also the change in the way he looks at me and tone of voice that changes. He will def go to court re access to DS as he knows it will upset me and he was good with him when he was at home- he does seen to love him. Shame he loves himself more.

[Karenthetoadslayer]

Hi, this quote was from Attila's post on my mediation thread. It is very very true. Excellent advice.

My mediation experience is pure horror and I would not advise it. I have no good advice ATM, but I am now trying to get out of mediation but I have to be careful as I am not supposed to be uncooperative. I have to show that I have a good reason to get out of mediation.

As to recording, please be careful. You can use your recordings to show to your solicitor and they may transcribe them, this is what we did. The other side's barrister may object to the recordings and transcriptions to be used at court as evidence, as the person who you have recorded has to agree to the recording being used. However, it is ok to record your ex for your personal use. In my case, my recordings (several hours of my ex shouting at me) helped my solicitor and my barrister to understand my case better. We used the transcripts in correspondence "without prejudice"but not at court.

Do make sure to keep all your texts, emails, letters, take screenshots and save everything. The more evidence you have, the better.

[Busybee43]

Thank you for the advice. I'm going to see my solicitor again and contact women's aid. He is a nasty piece of work and I need to stand up to him as I dont trust him with DS.

[IUsedToUseMyHands]

Ah thanks Karen!

[Busybee43]

Right so I'm definitely not doing mediation with him under any circumstances. I have finally been brave enough to go No Contact with him this week. he emailed me a couple of days ago asking how we all were and I've ignored him. His mum then text me last night but as she didn't ask a specific question I've ignored her too. Women's Aid also told me to go No Contact as they said he probably just enjoys seeing DS also to get at me. They said I don't have much of a case against him if he went to court for contact though as I never reported his behaviour to the police.

Any advice on what I should re contact this weekend? Do I text him saying where we will meet? Do I go for a cafe as DS will need feeding and has started weaning? He was adamant he wouldn't go to a cafe before but I know one that has a children's area so they can go in there but I can still see them. Or do I wait for him to contact me?

[IComeFromALandDownUnder]

Don't contact him regarding organising contact. You said he was verbally abusive at the last meeting, don't meet him again. Do you have a friend/family member who can supervise the visits instead of you?

[Busybee43]

He's emailed me again asking how the DC are (last emailed two days ago) and he's asked about what the arrangements are for the weekend. DO I reply or leave it? He's obviously irritated that I haven't replied to him yet from 2 days ago as we said Saturday morning for next meeting.

[WellWhoKnew]

The onus for contact is on him. And yes, you do it in a cafe. Whether he likes that or not is not under discussion.

He's right to want contact, but you're right to not want to be abused. Therefore you have to be in a situation that mitigates the risk. A public place is the best place to mitigate that risk.

If I were you, text back the time that is convenient to you, the place where it takes place and how long it will last.

He WILL then try to negotiate that - because in his mind you are not allowed to make decisions.

He's wrong about that.

Hope you're doing okay Busy.