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I'm desperate - end of the road(58 Posts)
I know my 22 year old son has to go, but how do I do it.
He is our much wanted and dearly loved first baby, excellent baby, toddler, became older brother to our second son.
Perfect family it would seem.
He entered teenage years and he has ripped our family to pieces, his behaviour was out of control. Both my husband and I ended up,on anti depressants, my husband suffered most losing around two stone in weight.
Ultimately, it culminated in his arrest and prosecution for affray at age 17. He then dropped the 'no good' friends and settled a little.
However, he hates us, me in particular, hates me, I sadly don't think this will ever change.
He does nothing in the house, his room is totally VILE, like a tramps room, bare mattress, rubbish everywhere. He just won't do a thing in the house and everything leads to a full scale row.
He works full time, but that's the only thing he does other than drink.
Let me give you an example of yesterday.
Myself and OH, went out early, around 7.30am. We had a.lovely day out, came home about 5.30ish. It was apparent that he had not been up. I felt this was ridiculous, he had not been up, eaten, done his washing, nothing.
Asked him why had he not been up and was met with a tirade of abuse, and screaming 'leave me alone' repeatedly and loudly and aggressively.
Shouting, swearing, slamming doors, you name it.
The previous day, he had been telling me he had done the ice bucket challenge, we 'chatted' about it, asked where had he done, who had nominated him. I also asked who he had nominated, he said X, Y and SAm. I innocently asked was Sam a boy or a girl, he during the argument said you just want to poke your nose into my business, you even wanted to know that. We barely speak, I was trying to make conversation, it's tough doing that when someone hates you.
Last night was the last straw, I thought him and his father would end up physically fighting, he was totally beyond unreasonable.
The next thing is there is water coming through our ceiling, OH goes running upstairs, to find the toilet full to the brim with toilet roll and water spilling over the top. He's done this before, used that much toilet roll to wipe and caused this issue, but does it again. Cue him saying it was like that already, it wasn't OH had used it previously and it was totally fine. Another screaming match of leave me alone, I hate you blah blah.
Next, youngest son comes home from work, we had dinner (didn't make eldest son any), we then went to sit in the lounge. youngest sits on one settee, eldest obviously drunk the night before had peed on it, DISGUSTING! Oh course total denial again, but OH had come down to make coffee that morning and found him on the settee and told him to go to bed, It would not have been anyone else.
He told us he won't be happy until we are both dead.
Refuses to leave the house and stay else where, we have to get him out he is starting to cause problems between everyone,
He is almost unwell with his laziness, won't get up for work unless i call him, won't 'cook' anything would live on crisps. Would dream of making a sandwich, would only put single stuff in the oven, life packet of scampi, nothing to go with it, just that.
And without exaggeration he must have lost 50 keys to our home, always have to nag him to get another cut, never ever does it without yet another fight.
I won't be getting him up anymore, told him that, he will lose his job.
Why is he like this? We gave so much to him, it's so sad.
We have tried everything, being nice, being hard, ignoring, excluding, welcoming and nothing works.
He makes out home totally hateful.
Other DS is great, normal relationships, will sometimes push the boundaries with mess etc. but a word or a text to say I just came in to find you had beans on toast, with cheese as it's everywhere, will get sorry text and will clear up properly when back. Will have a good old chat and laugh, wind his dad up over football etc all totally normal.
How do we make him go, he needs to leave us, he is abusing us.
Sorry long post but really we are desperate. The above is just a snapshot.
It sounds very hard. I guess you give him notice, one month? And when the time comes you bag up his stuff and follow through, even if he hasn't found somewhere. He probably won't, because he will call your bluff, assuming you will cave in. You will need to remain strong, although it will be a very difficult time. I wish you luck.
My first thought is that he sounds like he's on drugs. Being drunk doesn't tend to make someone sleep until 5.30pm and waken up aggressive to the point of being abusive.
I think a bit of tough love is needed. You give him an ultimatum. Either he stops being so vile and changes his behaviour or he has to move out. Simple as that. He has a job so he will survive. Give him till the end of the month to improve and tell him if he hasn't improved by end of the first week you'll be changing the locks on the 4th week so he has until then to find somewhere else to live.
Sounds harsh but there is no way you can continue to live like this.
Thank you for replies, I too considered drugs? It's normal behaviour is it?
We have issued every ultimatum,so I think we have to give a months notice now.
Also changing locks, he literally breaks into our house! Don't ask me how he does it but he gets on through dog flap or anywhere. I suppose we need to keep everything locked and call police if he try's?
You are right we cannot continue, we are at our wits end! He is destroying our home and our happiness.
You should the watch Dr Phil show on youtube, there are several shows on this very issue over entitled grown children. Guess who they blame? the parents. You and your dp are thinking as parents, you need to kick him out of the house and never let him back in. If you continue to allow him to stay you are shunting his growth as an independent adult.
How he acts when he has left is his choice! hopefully he will come back to you in a year time and say sorry but maybe he wont?
My thought is also that he's using drugs. The toilet incident rang a bell funnily enough. Someone I shared a student house with had horrible bowel problems due to drugs and their toilet habits were bizarre. Symptoms of drug abuse
You say he reluctantly gets up for work. If he holds down a job, is he capable of behaving himself there or is his behaviour poor wherever he is? Does he appear to be choosing to punish you or is it universal, in other words?
Cogito he appears to be ok at work, been there coming up a year and previous job was three years. Left one for the other, so all coordinated etc.
He blames us, but mostly he blames me!he has nothing bit hatred for me,it makes me very sad as I've always been there for him. But I can't live like this anymore. I find myself planning my days around when he will be about, is leave the dog walk until when he is up so I can the go out.
His room stinks, I want to get his stuff out and reclaim it.
He will say he will commit suicide, which frightens the hell out of me. But we cannot go on like this.
We need to regain control!
If he threatens suicide ring 999 and call an ambulance. Don't allow him to use it as a form of blackmail. If he genuinely needs help for depression and drug use the 999 call will start the ball rolling.
You said all he does is work and drink which - given his behaviour, the incontinence etc - possibly indicates functioning alcoholism. I take it he has no friends and no social life? What does he do in his room.... TV? Computer? Nothing? Alcoholism can trigger depression or other psychoses. Suicide threats should always be taken seriously whether they are genuine or an extreme form of emotional blackmail. You describe his laziness as rendering him 'unwell' Have you ever involved your GP or sought advice from somewhere like Al-Anon?
Beyond I know exactly how you are feeling, this was my life too.
The horror started when my son was 15, we lived a half life, it was like living with a wild animal.
I had to be the strong one as my husband really didn't cope with it. In our case it was drugs, with drink thrown in for good measure.
I'm sorry to say that the only way to save your sanity is to keep him out of the house, my son was 25 when we finally managed this.
Many people judge you, but they will never understand because they can't. Do what you have to do.
I really wish you well OP, good luck.
Beyond this sounds so painful and difficult. What you must realise is that your son probably feels very unhappy living like this too. He won't be proud of himself or his behaviour as you have brought him up with morals and standards he knows he is failing. He needs you to lay down firm boundaries with consequences even if that makes you the bad cop. "I hate you mummy" is what toddlers wail when you turn off the TV or remove the packet of sweets when they have had enough.
Could you plan a family meeting with an agenda? What behaviour is expected in return for a room in your house? You haven't mentioned whether he pays any rent to you.
You and your DH need to lay out what you expect and he needs to decide whether he can live by your rules or leave and find a place of his own.
(I have a stepson who fills the kitchen with burning chilli fumes and doesn't wash up so he has forfeited the right to share the kitchen in our new house.
He also blocks the loo with toliet paper! Odd that)
If your Dh is behind you on this he can maybe play good cop and have a quiet word with your son about what he is hoping for in the future. It is right for young adults to move out and gain independence and this is not helping any of you. Be tough and lay down your rules and either he will shape up and you will all be happier, or he will choose to move out and that will also be easier.
Don't listen to his threats of suicide that is just manipulative rubbish. If he kicks off you call the police or an ambulance so he can be assessed by professionals.
Beyond if it is any consolation, he may not actually hate you. More likely he hates himself and the life he leads, but can't cope with feeling like this about himself so needs to externalise it. You may be the "safest" person to project his self-loathing onto as subconsciously he knows you will not reject him for doing so.
Pack his bags when he's at work and lock him out. Clear his room and take it to the tip so there's nothing for him to break back into. If he tries to get back in then ring the police and have him removed.
You can't help him until he helps himself and for that to happen he has to hit rock bottom.
I don't think you'll get anywhere trying to round up intervention as he's 22 and nobody will tell you anything. He has to want it first.
He has a TV in his room,but very often he does nothing! Laptop broken, anything we have ever bought him he has broken. Guitar,lamp,table, consoles.
I have suggested help but he goes mad, really mad. I have questioned drug taking but his form of defence is attack! He attacks me verbally and carries on like I am a devil woman!
I will be honest I am scared, scared of him staying, scared of him going, scared of what his hatred for me/us will make him do next.
The arguments are becoming more and more aggressive and I've never been a violent person but when he is screaming his vile words at me, that are so unfair, I honestly feel I could swing for him.
He LIES, will stand in front of us and LIE! He used to do this at school and scouts and got chucked out of both!
It's a living hell.
Pack his bags, put them outside and lock him out. I know that's what pp above said, but its what I was thinking when I read your opening post.
Presumably he has keys so get your locks changed today.
Clear his room of everything, and immediately allocate it to some other use.
YY to contact the police if he tries to force his way in or enter without permission.
You might want to fund a week's accommodation (b+b would be fine) in lieu of notice to quit.
Whether he 'hates' you or not, you need to presume that you will be at risk of some kind of reprisal - he's flooded your house, so he obviously thinks this is the way to behave.
If he wants to talk to you and his dad, arrange to do so in public, in daylight, somewhere he won't kick off.
Then put him out.
He attacks you verbally and it's getting worse... how long do you think it'll take before he attacks you physically?
But don't have him back, ever, and don't let him in the house until you are sure he's settled and much improved. I'd give it a year at least.
I really feel for you. My DB was like this (but his verbal aggression spilled over into physical violence with my dad - who was the most peaceable man alive) and my mum bore the brunt of my brother's hatred. As an observer, she didn't do anything to warrant his extreme responses to her. I think there's something in what Buster said, above.
I don't have anything practical to say, but because of my own childhood (and having 2 sons who will be teens in no time) I'm always on the alert for things that might help. I read about parents in similar situations in Tara Brach's books and she talks about how to take care of yourself in the face of intractable situations like this.
I really hope you find a way through this.
My DS was like this from about 15.
Because he was so young we kept trying and trying even when he insisted we 'sign him over' to SS (he thought he would be taken into care and then housed)
He hated me particularly.
He also broke everything and could never seem to understand how it happened. At one point I asked people not to buy him Christmas presents or give him money.
Everything just got broken and he would use the money as a way of having power over us e.g. he had money, ,he could do what he wanted.
This went on for two years until we finally said enough. He was too old to go into foster care by then. So he went to live in a hostel.
It was horrible. I felt horrible. I had to pass that hostel on my way to work and I felt guilty and sick and so worried about him.
But it was still better than having him at home. My house didn't stink anymore and I didn't have to worry about it being burnt down or flooded or the doors and windows left open.
He was drinking too. Far too much and very self destructive.
He is 20 now and in his own place and working and seems happy and he visits and phones and buys us birthday cards.
We never gave up on him we just made it very clear we wouldn't deal with his behavioiur. It took him a long time to understand that no, we didn't have a stash of money somewhere and that we were supposed to support him.
Your son has to leave your house. He is an adult now. I know you want him to change but he won't whilst he is at home.
I know how awful it is.
Kick him out. Don't give him a months notice, he'll just get worse as the time goes by.
You're not heartless, you need some sanity back. Who cares what stories he tells about you, frankly, you don't need the aggro from a grown man! You wouldn't take his behaviour from a guest, so why take it from him??
IME, he'll wallow in self pity for a while, then he'll realise what a complete spanner he's been. The self pity part may be months or years, he's an adult, it's up to him how he handles it.
Be kind to yourself and most importantly, PROTECT yourselves too.
'Throwing out' your own son, feels like a betrayal, but trust me, it's not. You're not betraying him, you're 'setting him free'.
My son told me it was the best thing I ever did for him. He's lovely to be around now.
My son told us that he was our responsibility, at 25?
You must present a united front, you have to keep him out of the house.
This is the only thing you can do, it isn't fair to your younger son or you.
My son had to survive without us and he managed.
Involve the police if you have to.
We are very much united, if we were not a strong together couple, then this would have split us.
I can't believe he is happy, but I think this is very strange .....
After the various massive rows last night, he was watching telly in his room and genuinely laughing at something. Surely if you have just had a huge row with someone then you don't feel like laughing at a comedy sketch five minutes later?
I know he has to go, my OH and I will sit down tonight and decide our strategy. It's such a shame it could be a really good set up, he had a lovely room and could have made it so nice for him but he wants to destroy everything including himself and us.
I told him yesterday that if I was married to him, I would divorce him.
Thank you all for taking time to reply.
gamer chick is totally correct -at his age he needs to know he is doing wrong things and if the police need to show him that then so be it
Just know that chucking him out doesn't have to be the end of your relationship. It could be the beginning.
It might take many years or it might happen in months but it IS possible that he will 'come back' to you.
If he doesn't it surely can't be worse than the life you are all living now.
Once our DS was out of the house I found it much easier to tell him that I still loved him but I couldn't tolerate his behaviour. I couldn't be rational when he was breaking my things and screaming at me.
I also found communicating by text a good way of saying nice things and he was able to say them back (eventually).
Texting gets a bad name but in some circumstances it is the best way of putting some distance whilst still maintaining contact.
BUT only for nice or neutral texts. Not nasty or argumentative ones. They can be kept as prizes and proof that they are right and you are wrong.
A PP asked if he paid rent, he pays a minimal amount and you would think he paid a kings ransom!
All of you are saying he has to go, which you are right about but I know it's not going to be easy, it's going to be a nightmare!
We need a strategy, we need to stick to it.
Very tough times ahead sadly
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