Are we really from different planets?

[goldsilver]

I have been here a few times, bemoaning my OH's thoughtlessness/selfishness and it has even been suggested that I am with someone emotionally distant and it is just me, a product of my childhood, seeking love and instead needing to seek out a life and even leave my OH.
Thing is, I am not blameless and I don't believe for one minute I am in an abusive relationship.I think my OH has a mild form of aspergers. He is very different to other people, lacks friends, doesn't pick up on cues, avoids conflict for fear of upsetting people and saying the wrong thing, gets obsessed about things, has routines that are really quite annoying and has social awkwardness. My daughter finds him to be pretty odd to say the least! She is 17. But he is loving and very affectionate, he tries hard to put me first, never ever puts me down and would do anything for me. Yet I find it so hard to live with him sometimes. He can be so loving and yet so strange in things he says, without thought! It is maddening, but reading up on aspergers, it is to be unexpected. His family always knew he was different and unique but sometimes, because of all I have been through, I just wanted to be with a 'normal' guy...then I feel selfish, because he is such a lovely, caring man. I have been in many abusive relationships and he is the complete and total opposite to that, he doesn't have a bad bone in his body. But yesterday, I was at the police station reporting a historic rape. It was very difficult for me but OH just wanted to get on with the day as normal. I just wanted comfort and support and tried to seek that from him, which he did give, but felt awkward a little. We went out for a meal, and the food we had triggered IBS with me (undercooked omelette!) and at home, I felt unwell, and run down. I fell asleep only to wake up to find him watching some documentary on Kate Bush, rather than suggesting we go to bed and rest. He is obsessed with Kate Bush and other bands and even this gets to me, when perhaps it shouldn't. But it just seems to indicate a certain thoughtlessness. Perhaps I am asking too much of my OH and I certainly over react and am very sensitive, due to all I have been through. Today I have to do a video at a rape centre and he just spoke about going to a car show before I do it! It isn't that he doesn't care/love me, just that bloody thoughtlessness, and it brings out the worse in me...I turn into an over-reactive, negative nag! I have vast experience of abusive men, and he is not one of them but how do you remain positive and loving in the light of this?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I think you have to take people on face value and judge them by their actions rather than either their words or some straw-grabbing idea of what you believe is really going on in their minds. The reality is that he's thoughtless and shows no compassion when it matters. Why he's thoughtless and lacks compassion is immaterial. Even if you like the other 95% of someone's personality, sometimes the missing 5% (the 'deal breaker') is enough to ruin the whole thing. Shouldn't be underestimated

Have you ever tried telling him how you would like him to react? As in... 'I'm going to make this video today. I'm very anxious about it and I'd like you to help me by ".

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"Thing is, I am not blameless and I don't believe for one minute I am in an abusive relationship"

Well its easier for you to think that you are not but what if you are wrong? Now you're backpedelling. He may not be in the same class of abusive men as the others but he is still abusive all the same. He only cares about his own self and getting his own needs met. He treats you with contempt.

Most people in such poor relationships often blame themselves but the responsibility here for his behaviour is with him. He is the latest in a long line of abusive men (and I would class him as abusive given his other behaviours towards you). At the very least his own history is poor and I think you would hear a different version of events from his ex wife. Your daughter thinks he is weird and perhaps wonders of you why you are with him at all. Your own mother was cold and emotionless and she started this particular rot.

You cannot assume either he is anywhere on the ASD spectrum if he has never been assessed.

[goldsilver]

He definitely is not abusive. Not emotionally and of course not physically. He is shocked when he feels he has hurt me through being thoughtless. He feels terrible when I start to get stressed over his actions because he hates to see me upset and anxious. He is a very sensitive, deep thinking and quiet man...he is far from a bully. He puts me on a pedestal but he just finds dealing with people and an emotional woman difficult. It is very difficult to cope with the way he is but just because he has not been diagnosed with aspergers (many adults live their lives without diagnosis) does not mean he does not have it. It was Relate who suggested it could be possible and his quirkiness and thoughtlessness, not picking up on cues, suggests this. He is not cold, he has a warmth I have never ever found before...he is very romantic and old fashioned but he is just different and I am trying to adjust with coping with that uniqueness. He is the type of man your mother would love you to find because you know he would never ever hurt you, not in a million years...yet, his inability to understand is difficult. His ex wife spent three months living in their house, packing and labelling her stuff...he knew she was going and she taunted him with it every day. He sobbed and begged her to stay but she dangled a carrot at him and said 'maybe' knowing full well that she had another man and never intended to go back to him. They'd been together almost 30 years. I know this from her own parents who are lovely people. They hated what she did to him. He treated her with the utmost respect and she left after not working for many years and leaving him in terrible debt (again, parents words too). He has worked all his life and has basically lost it all. This man is not abusive, he just has difficulties with life. It is me that needs to be positive and try to adjust to be with a man who loves me and who I love dearly.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Relate were clearly not at all qualified to make such a pronouncement and infact such a person should have been reported to their governing body.

This man is not in the same league as the previously abusive men you have been in relationships with but do you really think his actions are all so loving and caring?. He has to lie down on your bed to tie his ponytail!. You're simply kidding yourself because denial is easier to accept. He would have most women running for the hills, he is certainly not the sort of man my mother would want for me. Your mother, yes, because she was cold hearted and emotionless.

Again all the information re him is second hand; I am certain this ex wife of his would tell you a very different story. You have had and still have difficulties with life and you are not abusive; infact I think you were targeted.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I don't think love should involve that much adjustment. I don't think you should force yourself to be positive or anything else for that matter. I think a good partnership involves two people who want to make each other happy and be a better version of themselves in the process.

So he's had a few tough breaks? So what? There are plenty of people who have worked hard and lost it all, who are in debt or who have been abandoned by wives or husbands. There are plenty of people for whom you can feel affection as well. If his social awkwardness and inability to empathise or show compassion is frequently turning you into a worse version of yourself and making you unhappy, he's not necessarily a bad man - but the chances are he is the wrong man.

[Meerka]

It sounds like you genuinely love and respect him and that he loves and respects you - he just does not sound like he understands how people (specially emotional people) tick.

From all you say, he never will.

The questoin is, can you live with that? It will take enormous effort because you'll have to always factor in that you will have to communicate with him that you are upset and that you would like this, this and this support (from what you say, he's glad to provide it he just doesn't know when it's expected). But there do seem to be many things you like and love about him.

Can you get the support from other people instead? Normally you might expect it from a husband but in this case maybe others can help more. It sounds as though you will need to take him for what he is. But if you find yoruself repeatedly posting about his thoughtlessness, good as he is he may not be the man for you.

[kaykayblue]

I'll put it this way: For someone to have so many massive doubts about their relationship - to be this unhappy, and to have to constantly scratch around in the dirt to desperately find reasons to try and justify the behaviour, or to try and excuse it so the (unhappy) relationship can continue....

I'm going to be honest. This is not the sort of relationship that I would ever recommend a friend to be in. Look, you can read up online about all sorts of issues, and cherry pick which ever ones you want in order to shoehorn his personality into them. But you're only doing this to try and find a buzz word to rationalise his behaviour, and take the onus off of him to actually start acting like a non selfish bastard, and give yourself a reason for why you must simply accept it.

You keep going on about how he would always put your first, do anything for you...and yet from your posts that's clearly untrue. He might be willing to do anything for you when there is no perceived impact upon him personally, but he certainly isn't willing to put your needs before his own.

Because otherwise he wouldn't STILL be doing his FUCKING ponytail on the bed every morning. Waking you up at 0530...whatever.

That's not a question of "oh, him and his routines". That's him making a conscious decision that his pointless routines are more important than you and your health and happiness.

Him talking about a fucking car show before you go in to give a statement about a rape? Are you even kidding me? How you think this guy gives even a semblance of a fuck about you is frankly beyond me.

This probably isn't an abusive relationship. But the absence of abuse in a relationship doesn't automatically make it a great relationship worth staying in. You can have shitty relationships with utterly unsuitable people with no abuse in them.

As an end note, I find your comparison of your DH to someone with Aspergers pretty offensive. Do you actually know anyone with Aspergers? I am getting extremely fed up of people who know nothing about it, making arm chair diagnoses as a means of excusing the shitty behaviour of their friends and partners.

[goldsilver]

Actually kaykayblue, I have a degree in psychology and I do know what I'm talking about...and to be frank, I find your lack of compassion and swearing pretty offensive. Don't forget, you are making armchair judgments so please, if you have nothing helpful to say then use your swear word on yourself with the off at the end of it.

[YetAnotherGuy]

I think the key here could be in the title - the Mars and Venus thing

It may be that you are not suited long-term, but on the other hand there are elements of your description of it all which sounds like he could do with a manual entitled "How to live with a woman and make her happy"

And I'd like a copy too - despite being very happily and successfully married for 38 years. Us men often just don't get it

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

No-one should need a manual if they are in a healthy relationship YetAnotherGuy. Regular people might not 'get it' or even get it right 100% of the time but they would certainly have the intelligence and compassion to understand that someone undergoing a report of rape (the example above) would need extra care and attention for a while.

I come back to my question about how assertive you are in this OP. When you're not getting the right reaction, sometimes you have to tell the other person what the right reaction looks like in very clear terms. Expecting others to behave in the right way unilaterally - especially when they have a track record of not doing so - is a vain hope.

[goldsilver]

Cogito, yes, I have been more assertive and it has worked well. Yesterday, OH was lovely. I do think he has issues with understanding cues. As soon as I explained myself, he told me how he felt and I could see that I had over-reacted because of being very sensitive, when he was actually thinking of me...such as the watching TV, but because I was sleeping and he didn't wish to disturb me after the day I'd had, not because he was being thoughtless. I think even I manage to misinterpret a lot! I have noticed though that sometimes the same people are answering the questions relating to men who might be abusive...and just to say, I went on the Freedom Programme with Women's Aid and had never heard so much male bashing in all my life! And it is based on a book written by a woman who is not a psychologist and uses no experimental studies whatsoever...so purely her opinion. I think it does help women with very low self esteem, however, who need a life line, but it is amazingly prejudiced. The man she suggests (Pat Craven, author) is totally Mr Perfect! Bet she never got him! Just a side point...

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

A lot of women find the Freedom Programme very beneficial and not just those with low self-esteem. That you think the author is just a bitter women who didn't get the guy sound more like a snide point than a side point...

[goldsilver]

Umm, Cogito, did you deliberately miss the really relevant point(s) made about her lack of qualifications, her lack of psychological studies, that what she writes is her personal viewpoint...etc, etc. I'd say her course is making women think all men have an abusive tendency! I know it was necessary to increase awareness but the Freedom Programme criticises men to the extreme. And I have noticed there are a few women here that seem to like to male bash, judge and criticise...a lot. The Freedom Programme should be abolished due to lack of scientific research and credibility. There are other programmes out there. Women's Aid, incidentally, do not endorse the programme either! Women's Aid have many independent people who run it but they themselves do not endorse it.

[cailindana]

It doesn't really matter if he's abusive or not. The question is, are you happy to continue being in a relationship with him or not. If the answer is that you are happy then you need to accept him for who he is, not expect him to be something different. You clearly love him, but if you are constantly reacting to things that he does when his intentions are kind and his motives are good, then it must be very stressful for him. Equally you are stressed out by the fact that he's not who you want him to be.

So where do you go from here?