Can't believe I'm considering this. Please hold my hand and talk me out of it?

[HavingAGoodThink]

Have namechanged as I've got RL friends on here, and I'm not ready to talk about it openly yet. I have used this name recently though to comment on someone else's thread.

Me and DH have been together for nearly 10 years, married for 6. 4 yo DD and I'm 24 weeks pregnant. Recently, I've been unhappy but I don't know if I've got the energy to fix it.

A few months after we got married, I found some messages between him and an ex (female) colleague, that were on the wrong side of friendly. Quite flirty, not overtly sexual, but definitely inappropriate. We rowed, he made his excuses, and hasn't been in touch since. I trusted him not to do it again.

Until now. Different woman though. They met online through a photography website (his hobby). He's always involved me with the online community. Some of them are reasonably local and have become good friends. Others are abroad, and I'm friends with them on Facebook too.

I've found a FB conversation between the two of them, going back years. The woman in question is American, so I know there's nothing actually physical going on. But the messages he's been sending are definitely bordering on it - worst one was she's wearing a dress with no knickers, he says so I could get you naked in one fell swoop. She didn't reply to that, so I think it's mostly driven by him. She normally seems to cut the conversation short by saying her kids, husband or business partner have just come in the room. I think she's being polite, but she's definitely done nothing explicit to discourage him.

I've taken screen shots of the more recent messages. They've mentioned catching up on Skype, so I know I'm not seeing the full picture.

I've written an email to them both, but I haven't sent it yet. I don't trust myself to talk to him. I need to keep my shit together to have the conversation, and I don't trust myself not to cry or scream at him. And I don't know if it's a good idea to pull her up on it or not. I don't hold her in anyway responsible - it's his decision to betray me, not hers - but I want her to see that by deciding not to tell him to stop, she's involved herself in my marriage, and that if my marriage ends because of this then she gets to see the part she has played in that.

I don't know if I want to save this, but I don't want to separate either. I can't bear the thought of not seeing my DD open her presents every Christmas morning, and I don't want either of my children to spend their life split between two homes. What the fuck do I do??

[HavingAGoodThink]

God, that's a lot longer than I thought it would be. Sorry!

[EhricLovesTheBhrothers]

Don't email her. Really don't. She's irrelevant.

[whitsernam]

You say: " I can't bear the thought of not seeing my DD open her presents every Christmas morning, and I don't want either of my children to spend their life split between two homes."
Do you think he feels this way, too? Would he come to realize what he's done here if he had to live somewhere else for a good long while? That might be the only way to get through to him....

[HavingAGoodThink]

Argh. I know I can't email her, I do. It just pisses me right off that I'm friends with her on FB, and she's always commenting on pictures of us saying 'you can see where DD gets her good looks' (aimed at me). Back stabber!

Whitsernam, I don't think he's thought about it.

What complicates things is that we have a mountain of debt that's still 2 years off being repaid, so we can't afford to live apart. We'll have to work it out, whether we like it or not. I think that's partly why I'm reluctant to do anything for the time being. I might be unhappy with our marriage, but I'm less unhappy if I stick my head in the sand, if you see what I mean?

[whitsernam]

Do you have family/friends who understand your situation and might be helpful? Whose debt is it? I don't actually know you, but I do know from experience how soul-destroying it can be to stay married and compromise on important values; you can wake up one day and not know who you are anymore. Knowledge really is power, so make an appointment for a free consultation with a lawyer or CAB and find out where you really stand.... go through the paperwork carefully and see where something can be cut out. You do have to value your own sanity and health.

[HavingAGoodThink]

I know, that was my gut reaction too

Don't worry, I've got plenty of anger for him. So much, in fact, I'm worried about containing it when I finally talk to him about it. I need to know how to channel it constructively instead of letting it reduce me to a sobbing, incoherent snotface...

[Fishstix]

Do you want your daughter growing up thinking it is acceptable for her partner to conduct flirtatious/affairs with other women either though? Yes, dealing with the see ration from ones children is horrible, desperate and difficult. But so is seeing them growing up following your pattern because you couldn't bear to leave.
He won't stop his behaviour, not if you've already caught him and he is doing it with yet another woman...and I'm betting they are not the only two.

You need to get rid, even if only to give him the short sharp shock of genuinely realising what he stands to lose.

[HavingAGoodThink]

Thanks whit.

It's both of our debt from the early days of our relationship -filled up credit cards, consolidation loan, refilled up credit cards. All in his name, but technically both our debt.

I think I don't know who I am now. I've known him since I was a carefree 21 year old. Now I'm the responsible mom of about-to-be-2, who snaps and sulks at the slightest provocation.

Finding a half hour free is a good idea. How do I go about finding one? Just walk into a firm and ask?

[HavingAGoodThink]

So many x posts.

I know you're right

I avoid Relationships exactly because I see posts like mine and think 'have some self respect!' but I can't seem to apply it to me.

[HavingAGoodThink]

If I was to post the email I've written, could you pull it apart for me?

I'll take out all the OW stuff and just send it to him. I just don't think I can talk to him, and it was so therapeutic to write it all down...

[Fishstix]

Knowing people are right and being able to take that first step are utterly different things. I totally get your hesitance...but you do need to send hm a clear message. This will eat you up if you let it ride.

[badbaldingballerina123]

I definitely wouldn't email her. But I would forward the conversations to her husband. What he does with it is up to him.

[Quitelikely]

I think last time you caught him the consequences were not severe enough to deter him from the same behaviour. If you want to stay In your marriage you should take drastic action in the interim, so throw him out and let him stew for a few weeks or something like that.

He needs to realise what he is risking.

I'm afraid if he isn't strong now it could get worse when no 2 arrives as that can have just as much an impact on a marriage as the first baby.

[nicola1904]

That's horrible :( hope you're ok! I would say that there is only so many times you can forgive and try to build trust up in someone again. You should delete this woman off your fb as it will drive you insane! Confront him with proof so he cannot squirm his way out of it, sometimes men need to see what they are about to lose to make them see the total idiot they are being!!! X

[HavingAGoodThink]

Here's the edited email:

Dear H

I found your facebook messages to OW. A couple of weeks ago now. I’ve been trying to work out what to do, and I can’t see a way forward. I don’t even know how to talk to you about it, so I’m writing it all down so that I can get it all out

You’ve let me down. We’ve been here before. 6 years ago it was Other OW you were sending these kind of messages too. 3 years before that it was me. God knows who else in between, but I’ve had enough of it. I told you after OOW that I would check up on you from time to time, and guess what? I was right to. Conveniently, the messages between you and OW have now disappeared from Messenger. Good job I took photos of them when I did. I don’t doubt that you have both carried on elsewhere. Skype probably, as you’ve mentioned that in your messages.

For the record, asking another woman if she’s wearing a dress that you could remove in one swipe, or chancing a phonecall while I’m out for the night – both way out of line.

My instinct tells me this has been going on for quite a while. You’ve been unhappy for two or three years now. You can’t talk to me civilly half the time, you forget basic manners like please and thank you, you look at me with disdain and we argue over the most pointless things. You have refused point blank, twice, to see a marriage counsellor in order that we can try and put things back on track. I’ve been disengaging, and mirroring your attitude back at you (funnily enough you don’t like that very much and it makes you more unhappy. Maybe we’re both subconsciously looking for a way out?)

So here’s your options:

A – the two you meet up and get this out of your systems. You won’t get to decide what happens after that, but suffice to say it won't be pleasant for anyone.
B – you cease all contact. Names deleted out of phones, Messenger, Skype, you leave the photo boards. No fake profiles either, just in case you're tempted. You give me all your log ins and passwords and I will check them from time to time. And continue to check. And if a password doesn’t work one time, you’ll tell me what you’ve changed it to. We go to Relate and try to work out if there’s a way forward from here.
C – you decide that your marriage isn’t worth the effort of option B, and we separate, amicably of course for the sake of our daughter and the baby we haven’t met yet. That way you’re free to pursue option A if that’s what you want.

The ball is in your court, but be aware this is my ultimatum. There won’t be any more chances after this. If you choose B, and there’s yet another woman 3 or 4 years down the line, I won’t be around to discuss this with you at all. You’ll get divorce papers instead.

Yours
Wife

I've just realised I use a lot of words!

[HavingAGoodThink]

Was going to include the screen grabs in there too, but I'll save that for the email instead of on here.

[HavingAGoodThink]

Reading the x posts, I'm still being far too soft aren't I?

[badbaldingballerina123]

I really wouldn't send that. It basically says all he has to do is delete things and your going to forgive him. That's a very small price to pay. It's little more than a inconvenience.There actually isn't an ultimatum in the email and telling him the ball is in his court gives him a lot of power. I really don't think this is something to say in an e-mail. I would calmly state he has to move out and you want a divorce. He knows why.

You can get divorce papers for a few hundred quid. You don't necessarily have to process them. Kicking him out for a few months with divorce papers is a lot cheaper than a real divorce and probably cheaper than counselling. Anything less than this is going to guarantee a repeat performance.

[cerealqueen]

So sorry you are going through this. Why does he get to decide your fate? What do you want?

[Horsemad]

Do you know what? I wouldn't even email him. Just pack his bags and tell him to leave. Make him realise what he's losing. And sharing your DC at Christmas? Nah, he doesn't get that option; he's spoilt your marriage, so why should he get alternate Christmas mornings? Insist you have the DC EVERY Christmas morning. He should've thought of that before

[daisychain01]

Do you want your daughter growing up thinking it is acceptable for her partner to conduct flirtatious/affairs with other women either though?

I think this maybe adding a layer of complexity to the situation at this moment in time. For now at least, the situation is under wraps and could potentially stay that way, if havingagoodthink and her DH can work this terrible situation through. So their DD doesn't necessarily need to be aware.

I wouldnt go for the LTB approach just for now. I really dont like all that flirty crap, it is damaging and erodes trust. Your DH really has some explaining to do, and fast!. You sound like you are being really level headed and thinking through the consequences, which is a good start. You must be fuming.

[Coughle]

Having do not tell him the ball is in his court! That's tantamount to saying, "You are in charge - I don't like what you're doing but I'm going to give you all the power."

I'm so sorry for what you're going through. Nobody can really know what anyone else's relationship is like, but in the same situation I would send him a short message while he was out of the house, saying, "I've found out. Don't come back to the house. I need some time and space to decide how I want to move forward."

You really are stronger than you think.

[HavingAGoodThink]

I've read it again with my viper eyes on and it's pathetic. You're right. There's no ultimatum. I can't even get that right!

I don't think I want to be divorced, but I don't want to keep feeling like this. I'm unhappy, and I don't care enough about this marriage to fix it. But I don't want to be the one to say that, to start it all off.

So much about him annoys me. His smoking, his surliness, his lack of ambition at work, not knowing what the chip on his shoulder is really about. And so I think I look for things to be unhappy about. And because of that, I'm grumpy to him and we're in a vicious circle of coexisting.

When I first read those messages, I didn't even feel sick like the last time it happened. Part of me even felt a bit disappointed that she's on another continent and I couldn't catch them in a full blown physical affair and really have something to hit the roof over. Because he's going to minimise the messages and I'm going to sound like I'm looking for excuses to get out.

And at the same time, I feel like I'm making excuses to stay. It will mean a massive upheaval for DD. He does all the childcare drop offs, so DD would end up living with him and not me and the idea of that leaves me cold. So I'll have to find a new job, while they're paying for the qualification I'm working towards.

I need to have a conversation about all that with a lawyer don't I? What a mess