Damned if I do.....

[Everybodyleaves]

Ok, lawyer has just advised me to cease STBXH alternate w/end access due to many issues pending resolution (hopefully over next few weeks/couple of months). Last resort I'm afraid.

Knowing it would therefore be a while before DCs overnights resumed, earlier today I asked STBXH for details of the camping trip he had mentioned prior to all this blowing up as none had been forthcoming. He had been aware DCs were unlikely to be going yet had been talking about it with them on phone calls this week. It turned out to be starting tomorrow.

I then offered to let DCs go as a) it is a holiday for them with him b) it might be the last overnights for a long while as he can be VERY stubborn and c) thought it would be a nice gesture as aunts/cousins also going too (just found that out today too).

I asked for one condition to be met: that he agreed to return DCs to me when camping trip ended on Thursday (he was originally due to have then for 11 nights). He refused. He has previously not returned DCs to me when due to, hence my asking.

Many angry texts, calls and two confused and upset children later, he is blaming me for them not going.

Why do I even bother trying???

[caroldecker]

Why do you demand them back on Thursday? Are they at risk with him?

[heyday]

This is a bit confusing. Your post is not clear.
If you feel safe with their dad having them then why not let him have them for a few days after the trip too? Why are you demanding that they be returned as soon as the trip ends?
If you feel that there are safety issues then they should not be going at all.
The trouble is, the kids always become the innocent and confused victims of the war between separating parents.
It's very difficult when children are not returned when they are due to. This sounds like a very stressful situation for you all.

[Everybodyleaves]

Unsuitable sleeping arrangements (no beds) on his weekends are one of the many issues, hence asking for DCs back after camping trip.

[Quitelikely]

Well IMO you have deprived them of a holiday with their paternal family. So they have no beds to sleep on, don't they share with your ex?

[Quitelikely]

It is your fault they aren't going though

[tisrainingagain]

Why won't your ex take them camping at all now?

[FrankSaysNo]

This is the no bedroom issue isn't it?

Everyone is together in a tent.

You are giving out mixed messages. you have pulled the plug on your childrens holiday with their extended family. are you trying to completely cut them off from their fathers side?

Re the lack of bedrooms - can he afford to get a bigger place for children that only stay every other week? These things have to be thought about.

[Lweji]

How many children, sex and age? And where do they sleep at his?

[Everybodyleaves]

DS7 and DD11. They sleep on the floor in the livingroom at OW flat, has been that way 3 years.

No idea what he can/cannot afford as no idea what his salary is now.

Despite the camping trip not being an option since things came to a head a few weeks ago, he has built up their expectations of going camping on the phone over the last week. As I said above, I then found out extended family were also going from an alternate source yesterday.

Not wanting DCs to miss out on spending time with the extended family, I asked for details and offered to let him have the DCs so they could all spend time together. DCs live with me, own rooms, own beds.

I just wanted assurance they would be returned to me after. He can be very stubborn

[Everybodyleaves]

And no, he insisted on reinstating his original 11 nights, or nothing.

[HeySoulSister]

No beds at dads but no beds when they are camping either? What's the difference?

A solicitor told you to stop contact?

[caroldecker]

Still not said why not 11 nights? They have been sleeping on the floor for 3 years and it is an issue now?

[daisychain01]

It sounds like you are doing your best in difficult circumstances, but maybe on this occasion it would be the right thing to do to get in touch with your Ex and let the DCs stay for 11 days.

Although it is hard, can you see things from the 'bigger picture' perspective - which is that an extra few days will smooth the troubled waters for this trip at least. It many not solve the problems of the world, but it will dampen down the situation for the DCs holiday.

Your DCs will be happy, that's what counts x

[Lweji]

We have one nephew stay for a few weeks sleeping on the floor for the holidays. I suppose we are child abusers?
When they stay at mine they also sleep on the floor.

I really don't see that them sleeping on the floor is such a big problem. Unless they sleep directly on the hard floor.

Not returning on the scheduled day might be a problem, though.

[Everybodyleaves]

It is too late, he left today. If he had provided details of the holiday earlier, perhaps something could have been worked out, but he provides no details. I think I have had a total of two short sentences for holiday arrangement this year from him, dates only. He has been told previously that he needs to provide details re destination etc if he wishes to take the kids away.

As I said above, several issues have come to a head recently and yes, lawyer advised I stop contact until we can formalise agreement.

I was trying to offer a compromise, rather than the kids missing out all together. I should say, that since his access was stopped he has made no attempt to salvage any time at all with the kids, and seems to have assumed that he "had me over a barrel" as far as childcare is concerned during the holidays. I have been resourceful and called in lots of favours to get by (I work full time).

He bought blow up beds for the camping, and they are sleeping directly on floor at flat. I put up with it initially and then a sofa bed was bought but I found out recently that the DCs won't sleep on it together. I had assumed they were on the sofa bed at least. They are not getting a proper sleep (school have commented) plus I get them back shattered after his weekends.

The kids were happy to go camping and return to me afterwards.

He has previously not returned them at the agreed time.

Lweji. Whatever sleeping arrangements you make for family holidays is your business and I've not accused anyone of being an abuser. I am only concerned about the arrangements for my own children during scheduled time with their dad.

[itwillgetbettersoon]

All sounds harsh and in the end the children have lost out. As their father I doubt he has to tell you the destination etc. I take my kids away and don't tell their father where we are going as it is my time with them. My kids sleep on the floor at dad's house as he can only afford a one bed flat. Not really seeing that as a problem.

[Everybodyleaves]

SS / SW have advised that children not having proper beds to sleep in is unsuitable for access visits, especially on long term basis.

Quite shocked at the number of people who don't feel this is an issue tbh!!

[HeySoulSister]

It's 4 nights access a month?

[Everybodyleaves]

No, 3 nights alternate weekends so included a school night.

[Lweji]

OK, it is shocking, as didn't really think that they would be sleeping on bare floor (although nephews have slipped down from their air mattress and ended up on the actual floor a couple of times but slept peacefully).

It looks like you need to stop trying to do the right thing by everyone and simply stick up for your children.
Let him do the running and insist on supervised contact instead of no contact until you are satisfied.

[tisrainingagain]

They definitely shouldn't be sleeping on the bare floor [shocked].

[todayisnottheday]

Fgs, I cannot believe you've taken this path. Your poor dc! As said on the other thread they need appropriate sleeping arrangements but that is for ss to take up with him. The dc want to be with him, he wants to be with them. The rest is window dressing. I simply can't understand why you'd take away your dcs holiday the day before they go. That's the ultimate in cruelty. Oh and it will make you look dreadful when it comes to court.

[Everybodyleaves]

Eh todayisnottheday if you actually read what I've said, I was trying to give DCs their holiday back, thank you.

The beds are not the issue here, it's gone rather off topic!!

[todayisnottheday]

No, you took it away. Then you tried to gift it back strictly on your terms only. You seem to forget none of this is about your ex seeing his dc. It is about your dc and their right to see their father.

Sorry but you have decided to take this to court and yet you are behaving in a manner that is going to seriously damage your case when you get there. This stuff is hard, I get that, but you have to stop being bitter it's clouding your judgment.

[Everybodyleaves]

My only "condition/term" was that he agreed to return them, and DCs were happy to do that. That is not unreasonable, they live with me not him. Even DCs don't understand why he wouldn't agree to that.

His access being removed is a last resort as I have said. His actions this year have all led to that. He rendered them hysterical for 2/3 hours a few weeks ago by turning up to collect them and causing a scene.

Sorry, where is court mentioned anywhere??

I'm not bitter, just at the end of my tether.