Can I just unload a load of crapness? EPIC!

[SEmyarse]

Hope that's OK, I just can't think straight.

I have 2 brothers, one older, one younger. Db1 is 9 years older, has a different dad to me, but was adopted by mine. He left home when I was 7, so I don't know him that well. Db2 is 5 years younger, and still lives with mum. My dad died about 5 years ago.

I don't recall when there were first rumours of child abuse about my dad, but I remember hearing something, so when my mum told me aged 16 'he has a problem with young boys', I wasn't surprised. I didn't really understand what she meant though.

Db1 has always been painted as a junkie and a liar, which I accepted when I was younger, but as I got older I've realised that his troubles could very well be related to his childhood, and this made me uncomfortable. Unfortunately, I had already lost contact with him for about 10 years by this point, and it's not the sort of thing you can ring someone out of the blue and bring up, and I didn't know where he was. I just hoped he was doing OK.

Last year, my mum decided to apply to become a foster carer. I was shocked since I thought something must have gone on, since she herself told me 'there was a problem' and I know how detailed social services are in their checks. I knew I would have to tell the social worker what I'd heard, but I didn't have to since they spoke to db1 first. SW came back to say that he had suffered severe abuse from a very young age, and mum didn't protect him, so no way would she be considered. SW also entwined into her feedback that some half remembered things that db2 had related meant it was very likely he had also been abused.

Mum hit the roof, she said no way had either been abused but some things 'shouldn't have happened'. I absolutely believed SW's report and wanted to shun mum and support my brothers. Db2 begged me to stay in contact with her while he attempted to contact db1 and see what he wanted to happen. He didn't want more drama at home at that stage, while he was still living there, which was fair enough, but I found it very hard not to have a blazing row with mum.

Db2 made contact with db1 who is very angry about things, but mainly about the SW, since he says the accounts blow everything out of proportion. He says he was abused but nowhere near the scale implied in her report, and the stuff that was tied in with db2 is untrue. I cannot think why he would lie about this since he is alleging abuse, but on a fairly 'minor' (comparatively) scale. I believe him.

I wanted to contact db1 at this stage, but db2 asked me to let him get to know him first and sort things out. He was insistent that he would not let this lie, and we would jointly support db1. He had blazing rows with mum, begging her to consider the fact that db1 had suffered, but she completely lost the plot and threw him out several times. In the face of this he backed down somewhat, and I didn't really know what to do. I didn't want to force db1 to talk to me until he was ready, it wasn't my battle, and he prob didn't want his kid sister thinking that sort of stuff about him and his dad, so I stopped contact with mum. She phoned twice during 6 months, but I didn't phone at all.

Then she phoned to say she had cancer. I felt bad, and decided regardless of everything else, she deserves to have help during the treatment, the rest would have to wait. So I rearranged my summer so I can be available. None of the complicated stuff was mentioned. I phoned a few times to see how things were.

She was scheduled for an op last Thursday, so I phoned on Weds evening to wish her well. A good chatty 30 min convo, and she finished with 'well I don't mind dying really, just not yet since I've not sorted out the will. I only want it going 2 ways, but your dad left it to go to all 3 of you, I need to sort it before I pop my clogs.' Chipper as you like!

I couldn't ignore that, I just couldn't! So on the eve of mum's cancer op I started world war 3. Db1 has prob suffered all his life due to this, I'm not having it any more, and I'm not sweeping it under the carpet. Which I told her, and she hit the roof, got really upset, refused to listen to anything, recanted every 'bad' thing db1 had ever done, including toddler tantrums to prove how bad he always had been. I lost the plot, and managed to get db1's phone number off her, and phoned him out of the blue for the first time in 20 years.

He was lovely. He couldn't stop apologising for being horrid to me when I was little, which he said was him taking out on me what dad was doing to him (nasty, not abusive). I don't remember that at all, just some teasing, I have virtually all good memories of my big bro. He recounted the details that I had received through db2, which he didn't know I had, and since they match completely, I believe him even more. He has since phoned mum, but he doesn't want to go into the details with her, which is fair enough, but she says thats proof he's lying. He says he can't handle being called a liar again, so won't speak to her about it. She says she will believe him if he says to her face, and then in the same breath says 'NO, it absolutely did not happen!' I have asked her to accept that it COULD have happened, and she absolutely will not, so I don't blame db1 for not confronting her.

I'm furious with her, but what do I do now? I have promised to support her through the cancer, which I feel anyone is entitled to. And as much as I am angry with her, I don't feel it's fair for her to carry the can for all of dad's 'doings'. As far as I know she was never involved in any of it. I just wish she would accept that something could have gone on.

Mum though, is not someone to drop anything...ever. So every time I phone to see how she's doing, I'll get a brief medical rundown, and then she'll start with a further list of reasons not to trust db1. It's sending me nuts!

[Mostlyjustaluker]

It sounds like your dad emotional abused your older brother. I am not sure what to suggest it all sounds very complicated and I can understand why you would be confused about how you feel.

[Softlysoftlycatchymonkey]

I would seriously cut her off. I've been NC with mine for 12 years. She won't admit anything because she has convinced herself it didn't happen or it wasn't that bad. If she did admit it, it would show her failings up as a shit mother.

The only person here that has suffered is your older brother.

Your DM is not entitled to anything. Even through all this she is still trying to damage your brother. Poisonous .

[Egghead68]

Oh dear - what a horrible situation.

I think I'd be inclined to tell your DM that you are there to support her through her cancer treatment but that you are not willing to discuss DB1. Just refuse to engage if she brings him up again. Don't bring up the abuse allegations yourself.

I'd also try to be supportive to your brothers.

Most importantly I think you need to make sure that you have plenty of real-life support for yourself.

[SEmyarse]

I have absolutely no problem with going NC with my mother. But my brothers are begging me not to, and it seems really unfair to blow thing out of more proportion than they want to. It's further complicated by the cancer treatment, whatever she has or hasn't done, I don't believe she deserves extra stress while going through that. Especially since my dad got off scott free.

My brother's abuse was sexual, physical and psychological. He says only the psychological bothers him.

[HowGoodIsThatInAnAgressiveJers]

Heavens - you poor thing.

It is all such early days. Your mother and brothers have been carrying these events for so long that all of them will have their own deeply entrenched narratives - none of that is going to change quickly or easily - or in the case of your Mum, if ever. For her to admit the full extent of what has happened to her own sons would mean having to dismantle the entire mythology of her life and for her to face up to some deeply hideous things that she will have to take responsibility for. All at a time when she is facing illness herself.

I am not saying that she should necessarily be allowed to bury her head in the sand but an overnight truth and reconciliation process is unlikely to happen.

You also don't say much about how close you have been prior to all of this or how much affection there is between you. You don't need to share that with us but it will be a factor in how you end up trying to resolve this for yourself.

What you are doing is keeping channels of communication open which seems to me a vital role and one that no-one else is able to perform at the moment. Time and talking may help you all to find your way forward and work out what the new family dynamic can and should be. You need RL support if you are going to be the lynch pin for a while.

[Softlysoftlycatchymonkey]

Your poor brother.

The fact she won't even acknowledge that her own son has been horrifically abused is awful.

The cancer is a separate issue.

[Softlysoftlycatchymonkey]

op you have no idea how a abuse surviver feels. The absolute worse thing when telling people the truth is to be called a liar. That's why your brother doesn't want to face his mum because why should he have to relive it all and be accused if lying. Your DM is cruel.

How brave your db is. And it's no revelation that he still doesn't want to rock the boat.

My sympathies are with him, not your DM sorry.

[Isetan]

Thinking that she would be considered for fostering means the denial runs deep and bad mouthing your brothers deflects her culpability and is obviously preferable to acknowledging what went on. If you can stomachs being in this woman's company, then you can honour your brother's request but I would make it absolutely clear that if she attempts to bad mouth your brother that you will be off without a backwards glance.

[SEmyarse]

How close are we? That's an interesting question.

Db1 has been ostracised for many years, no question. But mum says that's of his own making.

Db2 is golden boy, and lives in mummy's pocket. He is finding it very very hard to stand up to mum, and I'm extremely proud of him for trying, but he does waver. He lives in mum's house, and runs his business from there for peanuts. She has always done all his cooking and washing etc. he is finding it difficult to come to terms with both the abuse and mum's cancer

I live the furthest away deliberately. I have always found mum very difficult. I was dad's golden child so find it very difficult to get my head round what he did. I do believe it, but I'm struggling massively that my most supportive parent is the perpetrator of this.

[Softlysoftlycatchymonkey]

b1 has been ostracised for many years, no question. But mum says that's of his own making yep being abused can make you want to flee the situation.

What your dad did was hideous but your DM was complicit in this too, hiding it then turning it on to her child. Your DM won't except it as it's a reflexion on herself.

Both of your parents are to blame.

[BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted]

Your own mother told you: 'he has a problem with young boys' but that's the extent of what she is willing to admit, and that's the extent of her accepting culpability for any of it. i.e. none.

She could claim that she wasn't aware of it at the time but this would be a lie. Your brother's abuse wasn't just in the form of sexual abuse in private where there were no witnesses but emotional and physical abuse which she cannot have been unaware of.

It's shocking that she won't acknowledge the terrible danger she was responsible for bringing into her own home but not altogether surprising either. Just because she won't admit to it does not mean that she doesn't feel it. it's plain from your description that she does.

But none of us know about the particular family circumstances or how difficult it may have been for her to escape with her children out into the unknown, alone with no support and no income.

"Judge not lest ye be judged" and all that.

If you feel that you can only support your mother while she is receiving treatment for her cancer, and not any further and all the while not discussing the abuse, then so be it.

[SEmyarse]

I'm not at all convinced that she hid it. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't.

i can't figure out when she gained any information. She found out he was gay, 5 months into their marriage. Then there's something of a rumour from when he was a teacher and scout leader. But he'd left all that by then and was working in the legal profession, and I don't know when mum heard the rumour, and how likely it was.

[SEmyarse]

She says she knows dad hit him 'too much'. She has apologised for that.

But she says no way does any sexual abuse happen.

[SEmyarse]

She was fleeing her first marriage when she met dad. There was apparently very bad beatings, so she says that dad's 'smackings', didn't seem that bad at the time.

Her first defence was that she stayed (which implies she knows she should have gone at some point) for the security that dad provided. Income, house, settled schools etc

[BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted]

Well, she's wrong about the sexual abuse. It did happen. No-one makes this sort of shit up because they find it diverting or enjoy causing trouble. Most often it's the precise opposite. If she has to remain in denial while the three of you acknowledge it between you, then that's what will have to happen.

[BitterAndOnlySlightlyTwisted]

She fled her first marriage and took her only child right into the lion's den in exchange for financial security. She may not have paid much of a price for that herself but your brother surely did. That's not the sort of guilt I'd be wanting to carry round with me, and I wouldn't expect your mother to enjoy being made to acknowledge it. Quite honestly, I don't think she ever will.

[Softlysoftlycatchymonkey]

No one makes up.

No way would she admit there was a chance if sexual abuse because she feels it would look bad on her.

I think your DM turned a blind eye to what was gong on because she liked her life. You should read some abuse surviver books and read about the impact it has on families. Lots of women have stayed with their husbands knowing they are an abuser. Their need for self preservation was greater than their child's.

Your mum admits to hearing rumours and SW have been involved yet she still denies sexual abuse happened. This is about her saving face.

I'm sorry op but she is horrible

[JoyceDivision]

walk from the will,walk from your mum

if a parent can cover up abuse, and defend the abuser,and refuse to defend the abused child, they are worthless

focus on your relationship with your db

[FrankSaysNo]

Do as you wish - but don't forget to forgo your third of the inheritance... you mentioned it - and of course your mum wants to drop it from a three way split to a two way slit ... just remember to decline your half.

A good chatty 30 min convo, and she finished with 'well I don't mind dying really, just not yet since I've not sorted out the will. I only want it going 2 ways, but your dad left it to go to all 3 of you, I need to sort it before I pop my clogs.'

If you don't like her enough to be with her through her last days - you arent worthy enough to benefit from her money

[YvyB]

God, how awful for all of you. I'm so sorry.
I don't know very much about these things but your dad must have had a huge amount of power in your family. I'm just wondering whether that power was exercised over your mother as well? If she too was on the end of on-going abuse, particularly emotional or psychological, could it be that she simply CANT understand what really happened? You say yourself that you found it very difficult to accept that your 'most supportive' parent could have done these things. If he was manipulating her too - and you mention that she was already 'damaged' by her first marriage - maybe she just can't unpick the reality from what she was persuaded the reality was.
None of which helps you or your dbs pick up the pieces now: it's just that if you have lived in a distorted reality for many years, your idea of 'normal' can be very different from society's view (perhaps why she applied to foster and was surprised by the rejection).
Please don't think I'm trying to defend her or minimise what happened - I'm not. I'm just thinking that perhaps your dad had more power there than you realised as a child.
I wish all of you well. As far as looking after your dm now she is ill, I think you do what YOU feel you should. You certainly don't need to take on any more feelings of guilt. You are not obligated to do anything at all but you dont want to give yourself any more cause to feel bad in the future either.

[theendoftheendoftheend]

it sounds like she's suffering from major guilt, that she can't handle, so instead she's in denial. not necessarily a conscious decision.

i would continue to try and support her but tell her you are not prepared to discuss db's with her anymore.

[queenofthepirates]

Easy, gentle and go softly, this is an enormous amount of information to process and I second the last few posters in their thoughts that she may have been a victim as well. You may never get her to acknowledge the extent of the abuse on your brothers, especially if she is in poor health but seeing as your DB1 seems to be incredibly understanding and kind in the circumstances, you may not need to cut off any bridges.

Financially, if it came to it, you can decide to split any inheritance between you and your brothers how you see fit. Indeed it may just be what's needed to break the cycle and heal some wounds. I wish you well