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DH suggested I put this to you lot. What do you think?(423 Posts)
I'm going to try to keep this as neutral as possible, as it seems DH and I both completely believe we're in the right, despite our opposing views. Also going to try not to drip feed.
We've been together two years, married just over a year. We both have DDs from previous relationships. Mine (12) lives with us and goes to see her dad overnight at the weekend; his (13) stays two nights a week. My DD has some SEN, and coupled with the hormonal chaos of being 12, can be quite hard work. I also work 25 hours a week in a job that I love, but that can also be stressful and a bit overwhelming (social work).
A couple of months ago, DH told me that if I won't dress up for sex - ie. stockings, suspenders, thong, basque, whatever - he can't see any point in our relationship continuing. I was absolutely flabberghasted. It was like being kicked in the head. He did apologise, and we patched things up a bit, but he keeps coming back to the same thing every time we have words. He says that it would make him feel wanted and appreciated, that he is constantly giving to me, and that I give nothing back.
Thing is, I DO want and appreciate him. I love him. I'm so glad we found each other, at this relatively late stage in life (I'm 40, he's 50). But I find the weekdays hard, when DD is playing up and I'm exhausted from work and the constant bloody grind of housework and organising everything. As consequence, sex tends to happen at the weekends. I'd say we probably have sex a couple of times at the weekend, and sometimes, but not always, once during the week.
The funny thing is, that at the weekends when I'm relaxed and can focus on us rather than everybody else, I do dress up for him, and am happy to do so. I really enjoy it, and love the effect it has on him. This morning, during yet another argument about this, I reminded him of this, but he said it doesn't count because I'm only doing it under duress. I'm not doing it under duress, but it seems I can't win. He is insistant that I should - on say, a Tuesday evening, when I've been at work, then come home and have been running around doing domestic chores and coping with / helping / monitoring / disciplining DD til 9.30pm, I should pop on some saucy underwear and adopt the sex kitten persona. But I don't want anyone to make anymore demands on mme. It's all I can do to crawl into bed and read for half an hour.
In the interests of balance, I should add that DH has more money than me and props me up a bit financially, which I'm incredibly grateful for and regularly tell him so. He does most of the washing up, hoovers the house once a week, cleans the bathrooms, does any gardening, and helps me with DD a lot. I have quite high standards domestically (but not ridiculous - I only clean once a week and change beds every 7 - 10 days), and am very tidy. Being tidy helps me feel on top of things, and I make no apology for it. DH says that he likes my standards, but doesn't really help to maintain them. I feel that I tidy up after him a lot.
An example: He eats a lot of biscuits. I have asked him to use a plate for these, as otherwise I have to clear up his crumbs. He refuses; thinks I'm being ridiculous. I got a telling off a couple of weeks ago for asking his DD to eat off a plate too. I've tried to explain to him that this little thing could actually help with the sex thing - I wouldn't feel so resentful having to clear up after him all the time. But it is just dismissed. He actually said to me this morning (and I quote) " we should have high standards domestically, and high standards in the bedroom"
Your goign to tell me to LTB aren't you?
The best indicator of future behaviour is past behaviour, not a so-called apology that then blames the other party for atrocious behaviour they've suffered, for a bullshit, passive-aggressive reason.
Good luck op. I hope your dp's future behaviour matches his apology and you have no reason to return here.
You know best if he can handle reading the thread so that's for you to decide.
Of course he has read it!
and posted on it
Strong equal relationships are not based on trading favours or owing each other anything. I think that says it all.
Yup - it's another LTB from me. How dare he 'expect' you to dress up for him like some minx. And frankly, if you are putting out 2-3x a week then he should be bloody grateful!!! And the fact that he is contributing more financially has nothing to do with it. You are not a prostitute. I am gobsmacked that you have put up with it for this long. Also can't believe he wanted you to post about it; did he seriously think that people might support his view? Deluded doesn't come close. Good luck - you deserve more than this.
Oh, I think he has probably read it...
I don't understand why he advised the OP to start this thread and then didn't look at it once, or ask how it was going.
If any of your posts are deleted he will just decide in his own head that you have said something that you shouldn't have done. Even when we all know that this is not the case,its text book behaviour.
He will accuse you of talking out of turn and more than likely lying as well and will make up in his own head things you have said so be prepared for a bit of brooding and meanness
Anti - I can appreciate you just want to accept an apology and go back to normal. But really, this is such twisted logic that you will never win.
I really really hope the penny does drop. Before you waste a good chuck of your life which could be spent in a healthy relationship with someone who loves and appreciates you for you.
Thanks Anti - only shared it to show he's moved onto his own daughter now he doesn't have me to gas light and bully.
A kind and heartfelt warning really.
The dragon looks a bit like a red flag
to a short sighted person with a iphone like me
Be vigilant, OP
there are enough red flags here to supply a Morris dancing convention
Can we please get MNHQ to give us a red flag emoticon??? Please???
And yes, OP, unfortunately I suspect that eventually, once the shine of his "new behaviour" wears off, you'll be back. (and of course, you'll be welcome, without judgement) This is the point where he realises he's stepped a bit far over the mark and pulls back his behaviour in order to lull you back into your normal routine, so he can then slowly move the boundaries again and be the one in power. It's pretty standard. Sorry.
"if his excuse is genuine, it is worth giving a fair hearing by the op."
No. If his excuse is genuine, then he deliberately engaged in sexual bullying of his wife of (at the time) less than a year as a form of punishment for her saying something he disagreed with (and, as it happens, did that in preference to actually talking to her about the original issue, which she had no idea was important to him.
If his excuse is genuine, then he would rather say "there is no point in our relationship continuing if you won't dress up for sex every single time" than "You know, dear, the joint holiday thing really is important to me".
If his excuse is genuine, then there are enough red flags here to supply a Morris dancing convention.
The only way in which this relationship is even potentially salvageable is if his excuse isn't genuine but is just a bullshitting attempt to rationalise his appalling behaviour after the fact. And even then someone who'd rather claim to have deliberately sexually bullied another person than admit he was wrong is not good relationship material.
Hello Anti's husband, I'm so pleased you are here. I would just like you to know that I think you are one of the most disgusting men I have EVER heard of. I mean, really, really vile.
It must be scary to you that so many strangers have figured you out and see you for the bully you are. I'd say it's time to move on as it won't be long until you wife becomes as disgusted as us and leaves.
You must be embarrassed about the holiday lie. That was a really cheap blow and so so stupid as all it did was show your hand and reveal your abuse in full. You really aren't as clever as you feel.
Anti, I wish you every happiness and I will continue to think of you. I look forward to your post saying you finally took control back and left!
I don't think anything you said was awful about him - precisely the opposite. We can 'hear' your admiration for him and your investment in him and the relationship. I suppose my question would be 'does your OP really understand what he has done and is he capable of changing?' 50 years is a long time to learn how to emotionally blackmail and sexually bully and he's obviously learnt the skills successfully!
It's the hardest thing to change our patterns of behaviour and he's obviously got you where he wants you - until you posted here! Would he be willing to give up the power that he's taken and treat you with care, kindness, love and respect? I do wonder....... ?
Don't get your posts deleted. None are damning, but he'll assume the worst and use it as another reason to be cross at you
and use bad sex as a punishment for the next year
"But I am really perplexed now. Why didn't he say this before? When I asked him a couple of months ago what he was unhappy about, he responded with the remarks in my OP about dressing up and the relationship being over if I didn't. Why did he say that then, if it was actually the thing about the holiday? How do I know that what he is saying now is actually the truth? hmm"
he didn't say it then because
1) he hadn't realised why he was upset (it can take me a long time to see the cause of my own actions sometimes)
2) he hadn't had time to make it up before
I agree. It is unlikely to be your posts he will find unpalatable
sometimes the truth stings a bit
I don't think i is reasonable to have some posts deleted, OP. You said at the top that it was he that wanted you to put the question to MN.
If you don't feel comfortable showing him the whole thread, then just copy it to a word document and delete the parts that you don't want him to see.
Then consider why you wanted them deleted.
Cripes Anti - As a 50yo bloke some of what you wrote made me think you were my DP except I've never asked her to dress-up for sex. In fact, I suspect if I ever did she'd punch my lights out and rightly so. I find plenty of ways to "perv" (meant in the nicest possible way) over my DP without asking her to act like a prostitute!
Bite the bullet, give him the thread as it stands.
You have been remarkably gracious throughout.
Surely having to delete some posts before he reads it proves you're having to modify your behaviour to make him happy? Wrong on so many levels. Plus he's going to be suspicious about the ones you've asked to be deleted (which have been quoted so will still be in there as others have said)... its hardly going to make for a happy resolution!
I'm sorry but I think you've been duped. This isn't about the holiday. This is about control and manipulation and the fact you need to delete before you let him read something that was originally posted to be read by him shows how much control he has over you.
It's not a healthy relationship at all.
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