Have a really bad relationship with MIL- could do with some feedback.

[bigbluecat]

I don't really know what I want from this post other than just to be able to talk (or rather type) it through, and to get a bit of advice on how to deal with this - let me know if I'm being unfair and to what extent, and if I'm not, tell me how to just smile and nod because I find it really hard...

I started a relationship with DH when we were both teenagers - we've been together for 7 years now. Neither of us were in great mental health back then and our relationship was awfully dysfunctional for a long time - he was quite emotionally abusive to me for years.

DH and I are ok now, but I bring up the past abuse because I feel that on some level I may blame MIL for causing it (she was not a very 'involved' mother and was/still is emotionally abusive towards FIL) and not helping me (I tried to tell her how DH was towards me at one point and it was like she was literally unable to comprehend what I was saying). I realise this may be unfair.

Things didn't start getting bad between me and MIL until I had DC1. She flat out told me that she was, in her words, "the matriarch of the family", and became very controlling and competitive with me.

An example: once, when DS was a baby, we were staying over the PILs' house and the train journey and mucked up his sleeping. I was trying to rock him to sleep and he was whingeing quite loudly. MIL came in and tried to pull DS out of my arms saying "I'll get the baby to sleep." I held onto him and said, politely, "Oh, no thank you, I'll do it." She kept pulling and said, "No, I'll take him, I'll be able to do it quicker." When I repeated that I'd do it (DS barely knew her a that point and was more comfortable with me) she flew into a rage and started swearing and shouting at me.

Another example: On DS's third birthday, PILs came over and we were sitting in the garden as DC unwrapped presents. DS handed DH a present to assemble. MIL said, "You'd better read the instructions first." I laughed and said, "Oh, DH never reads instructions!" (A fairly innocuous/jokey comment, I thought?) MIL snaps back, "Well you don't have to tell me that, he's my son and I know him better than you!" I frowned (not on purpose or in an intentionally confrontational way - I was hurt and taken aback) but didn't reply. She said, "You needn't frown like that! Of course I know him better! I've known him since he was a baby!" DH at this point tried to stick up for me, but he's not great with confrontation and she just changed the subject and talked over him until he backed down.

Those are the examples that first come to mind but there have been many, many others.

I realised how much it was bothering me today when DS (who is now nearly 4) told me today that he 'loves nanna more and wants to live with her forever'. I realise that whilst he does love his nanna, he is probably in this case confusing love with the fact that he enjoys staying over there and having sugary snacks aplenty and unlimited CBeebies. But it felt like a punch in the gut. The thought of him possibly saying this TO her fills me with absolute dread because I know I wouldn't hear the end of it (he once told her he liked her cottage pie more than mine and she absolutely crowed over it). If he had said that he loved, for example, my (lovely) grandma more than me, I wouldn't have cared - would perhaps even have been pleased that he felt so close to her. But I have felt a sort of angry bitterness all day and I think I am starting to dislike MIL perhaps disproportionately.

Those of you with terrible relationships with your MILs (or anyone comparable) - how do you deal with it? She is a fab nanna to DS and I appreciate that and am pleased for him that he has this relationship. But I still can't stand her.

Massive OP, sorry.

[Hissy]

If you can't have a healthy relationship with this woman, what on earth chance do you think your baby has?

Please DON'T allow this woman free rein in your child's life. she WILL poison him against you, undermine you and drive a wedge there if she can.

She is not a fab nanna. she can't be. she doesn't know how to be a decent parent, and she hates you, so she'll manipulate anyone and everyone to get at you.

Know your enemy. Protect your son. Trust your instincts. Bugger the consequences! (((HUG)))

[CommonBurdock]

OK I have a MIL with similar tendencies but nothing so bad as you describe. She needs putting in her place right now, by you. The way I dealt with mine was to have a screaming row about what was acceptable in MY family (she can't do polite normal conversation only screaming matches). She backed right off. People like this will cause you to become unwell if left unchecked. She is in the wrong , you are in the right. Do not forget that. Do not overthink it. This is YOuR life and YOUR child.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

What Hissy wrote.

How does your DH deal with his mother?. It sounds like he backs off completely and is very much in FOG (this is fear, obligation, guilt) with regards to her anyway. Does he have any sort of relationship with her at all nowadays?.

She is NOT a fab nanna to your DS at all; whatever gave you that idea?.
Societal convention is not enough to keep such relationships going. A good rule of thumb here is that if relatives cannot or will not behave decently to you they will act similarly to your children.

She is already doing her utmost to drive a wedge between your son and you as his mother. Your 8th paragraph which starts with your DS who is now nearly 4 is particularly worrying. Was it worth him having any sort of a relationship with his nan?. Now not all together surprisingly he is saying this to you, she has manipulated him against you for her own ends with the result that he'd rather live with his nanna than you. You are now going to have to sever the lifelong relationship with this unhealthy person whom he is very attached to. He would have been far better off never having any sort of relationship with this person in the first instance.

You and your DH here are ultimately going to have to cut all contact with his mother and asap.

[whiteblossom]

Im with hissy on this one. Stop this now.

[Squidstirfry]

It seems like she has 'won' your DS over with whatever means she has (bribery with sweets and TV?)...

I'm surprised by the 'cut all contact' response so quickly... Yes she sounds like a PITA but your DS does seem attached to her and I'm sure your DH is too, so practically speaking NC would be slightly problematic.

She is pissing on her territory using your DS, and is trying to assert her position over you as 'matriarch' or whatever other fantasy she has.

I wouldn't take what your DS said too seriously, as kids say things like that based on very flimsy substance. You are his mummy and nothing will change that. You are obvioulsy very hurt by this comment given how your MIL is, and you have every right to hate her, and have your emotions.

Don't worry about it though, he only sees her some of the time and YOU are his mummy, she can't take him !!

[LoonvanBoon]

I agree with hissy as well!

I have had some issues with my MIL over the years - the typical ones, I suppose, about unwanted advice & interference, & her difficulty in accepting that we're a family, & not just a satellite of her family (if that makes sense).

But your MIL is in a different league altogether. She sounds absolutely horrible. Trying to snatch your baby from you & then swearing at you? Making it 100% clear that you're an intruder & she is happy to be in open (not even subtle!) & aggressive competition with you? It's totally unacceptable.

I think I would find it hard to watch my son settling down so young, & to see him having obvious relationship difficulties. But I don't think your MIL's behaviour falls anywhere within a scale of normal reactions to this.

I would definitely want to distance myself & try to ensure that I was around most of the time to observe her interactions with DS. But your DH has a role here too, & he needs to take some responsibility for letting his mother know when she's overstepping the mark.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I think the advantage of dealing with people like your MIL is that your expectations are nicely low. She's a big old bully so the strategy is clear. You don't appease a bully or tippy-toe round a bully or speak kindly and politely to a bully.... doesn't work. You stand up to them, dish back what they dish out, hold your ground... or you reject them. Thing to remember is that you hold the Ace here... your DS and her grandson. So you have more power than you think. Use it wisely Grasshopper. :)

[Horsemad]

I agree with all PP. If she tries to undermine you, you tell her she's had her chance at raising children and that it's your turn now.

My MIL lives VERY close to me but my DC have never stayed the night as I don't encourage my DC to spend a lot of time there. You will need to be forthright, but YOU are his mum so stand your ground.

[NewNameForSpring]

Please understand that this woman is NOT a fab nanna to your son.

She is a very damaged woman who will damage your relationship between you and your son and you and your dh.

I hope people here can advise you well as to how to cope with this nutter horrible woman.

[Twinklestein]

I would limit your son's contact with her. This isn't just your battle, it's your husband's too and if he isn't going to stand up to her at all, then you have to take the steps to safeguard your children. She's not just narcissistic and manipulative she's outright abusive, and she's getting her claws into your kids. If it comes to cutting off all contact, at least for a while - fine.

Fwiw I only remember one granny who died when I was 15, the other died when I was little. The surviving granny was a ghastly old boot, horrible to my dad, & I would have much rather been without her. Both my grandfathers died before I was born so I didn't miss them.

[MoRaw]

I get along well with my mother-in-law partly because she sensed that although I am generally a warm and kind person, I am not to be messed with. In a situation like yours, I would probably box-clever. A head on collision may feel cathartic temporarily but in the long run, you might not have won anything. Life is funny with its twists and turns. You never know how or why you might need her as an ally in the future. Take a clinical long term view of this and act in a way that will yield the greatest benefits for you.

You are worried that your son's childish innocence may give your mother-in-law something to be smug about. You know very well that your son will never love your mother-in-law as much as you and that this (in your view) potential oneupmanship is temporary. Your mother-in-law may be equally hurting over the fact that she has lost her son to you and that your son will never love her as he loves you. One day, it might be you feeling hurt that a younger woman is sharing your son's affection. There is partly an issue of jealousy (both you and your MIL) but there is no reason for it.

How you want to feel about and view this situation is all up to you. Your mother-in-law has her issues. Don't make them yours. When you see them manifest themselves, just say to yourself here's MIL with her sh*t again. Be assertive and say what you want/feel/think, etc. Being assertive does not mean you need to go on a shout-out. Being persistent and trying your best to maintain kindness will make you feel much better and this will be a much more lasting victory. Your son will learn a much better lesson from you and his relationship with his grandmother will be kept on a more positive note.

A couple of proverbs about bidding your time, not acting rashly, and exercising wisdom:
(1) A stone is heavy and sand is weighty, but the resentment caused by a fool is even heavier.

(2) A fool immediately makes his wrath known and a cunning one hides his insult.

For what it's worth, hope that helps in some way.

[BrunoBrookesDinedAlone]

No one who shouted and swore at me for declining to give them my baby would ever be welcome in my home - or within a hundred yards of my child - without a HUGE apology.

I'd put as much distance as possible between you all. She is no friend to your family - or your son.

But in the meantime...

MIL: 'DS says he loves nanna best, more than his mummy, and wants to live with me!'
You: 'Ah bless. They are funny at that age aren't they? DH tells me he remembers thinking EXACTLY the same thing, all through his childhood!'
Then stand there smiling at her until the penny drops.

MIL: 'I know DH best! I've known him since he was a baby! Etc.'
You: 'What an odd way to think! You mean to say you consider

[mumtosome61]

I would hedge a bet that the reason your MIL is so self righteous and entitled over her "Nana" status is because she ballsed up her own caregiving of your DH. She dislikes you not because of who you are, but because you are the person that will/has shown DH that family union is a positive, loving thing - unlike the experiences it sounds like he had growing up. That pisses all over her 'I'm the best' parade. I bet she's the kind of lady that has the whole keeping up with the Jones' charade going on?

You having a son, being married to her son and seeking the family unit, to her, no matter who you are, will seem like you've won the 'match' - her reaction is to more or less undermine everything you do, whilst simultaneously taking any opportunity for praise to an excessive level that verges of narcissism. She's a troubled woman, that's for sure -she's feeling very inadequate and rather than proactively and positively joining you and your DH in bringing up your DS, it suits her better to belittle you on every occasion - sadly, some people are like that and sadder still, they will remain like that.

I can see that you know this, and you know you are the rational, objective person in this scenario, but we are all liable to doubting ourselves - especially when it's a family member who is creating the issues.

There has been lots of fantastic advice here. Personally, I would be as fucking nice as you can to her because that will unearth her true colours/feelings to everyone else quicker than any other measure. She'll end up being the master of her own destruction and rather than you having to be embroiled in the emotional turmoil, you can sit back and let everyone else see her for what she is. Giving her the satisfaction of showing her you are affected by what she says and does will fuel her fire further, and may possibly lead to a irreversible rift that although may benefit you now, may not benefit everyone in the future. If she's an utter shit to you, DH or DS - stand up for yourselves, but keep it brief, sharp and simple. She thinks she can get your DS to sleep quicker? No, my son, my family, my rules. Don't engage with her on any reasoning level because you can't reason with someone who is unable to see past their own unreasonable world.

[Nanny0gg]

She is a fab nanna to DS

No, she isn't.

Fab nannas aren't horrible to their grandchild's mother. Fab nannas don't fight to hold their grandchildren.

You need to distance yourself. If you can't do that you need to be very, very firm.

I'd try very hard with the distancing though.

[areyoumymother]

My first thought is that your DS has been encouraged to think and say that he loves MIL more.

I have a rule. If grandparents are supportive of the parents they get lots of contact. If they're not particularly helpful but not exactly toxic, they get supervised contact. If they're outright unhelpful to the child's immediate family, there's no place for them. But that's because I value a child's security within the immediate family, and their need to see trusted adults treating each other lovingly, more highly than anything Nana can hand out, precious though her cuddles are.

[oldgrandmama]

God! I'm a MIL and I would NEVER behave like that cow of a MIL you've got. She sounds beyond vile and yes, what others up-thread^ have said, nip this in the bud FAST. I particularly like mumtosome61's suggestions.

Your precious child, your rules. She sounds just ghastly.

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

I imagine your little one is simply parroting what she has said to him. She sounds absolutely vile. At the very least I'd be putting an end to unsupervised contact.

[Meerka]

First off sit down with your husband and talk this through. it's absolutely awful. She is dreadful.

You and your husband need to work out a strategy for dealing with her together. you have to to have a united front if at all possible.

Because she isn't a good nana. She's a nightmare who is trying to take your child's love from you and fix it on her. Is that what you want? There are sometimes some very, very sad posts on here from mothers who've lost their sons or daughters to the apparently-loving grandparents who have slowly and quietly secured the grandchildren's affections and then dripped poison aobut their mother into the children's ears.

Don't let your son stay with her again. Seriously.

You -are- going to have to face the screaming tantrums again - and I'm sorry but you need to actually face them and not be beaten down.

if you want to retain some contact then you're going to have to say to her that her behaviour is absolutely unacceptable after the next incident and that she can't see her grandchild until she apologises. But please, don't leave your son overnight with her again.

[Meerka]

Btw, if you can handle your son's toddler-tantrums, surely you can handle your MIL's? Because she sounds exactly the same, only with the advantage of a more adult brain. But the behaviour is similar.

[Holdthepage]

Your DS sounds like he has had some brainwashing from the nana from hell. Supervised contact from now on, until she learns to behave herself.

[MoRaw]

OP, as difficult as it may seem, it may help you to sympathise with your MIL. I know this goes against the advice of many here but I have never know fighting with a MIL to yield long-term satisfaction. Entering a battle with your MIL will only leave losers all round. You can stand up for yourself without turning this into a war or overreacting. Breathe and think calmly about what is best for you, your son, and your husband.

You know the family dynamics so you will be able to judge whether engaging in an obvious fight will force people to take sides. Even if your husband and son take your side, there will be guilt and potential resentment swirling around. No one likes to be put in such a situation and whether we like it or not, blood ties have underlying loyalties (unless his mother has been really dreadful to him and even in cases where parents are absolutely horrible to their kids, the blood ties still evoke loyalty in some shape or form). Don't underestimate the problems fighting with your MIL can have on your marriage and your little boy.

You have been very clear as to why you are feeling a bit insecure as a result of your MIL behaviour. You also correctly recognise that she has problems. You also appear to have been very firm with her in the past (re. eing the one to rock your son to sleep). So, do you really think your son can (or will) be brainwashed into thinking negatively about you? Should you care about these petty "wins" that she perceives - her pie being better than yours, your son having "more" fun with his nan, etc. Tomorrow, he could quite easily say he hates his nan. You recognise that this your son just being a child. As you said, if it was another nan, you would not have been bothered. Therefore, it stands to reason that it is not what he says that bothers you but that you and your MIL are fighting to be the higher order female (or in her words the matriarch).

Whether it is a MIL relationship, or relationships with colleagues, your son's future girlfriend or a future friend of your son that you don't like, declaring war may yield a pyrrhic victory in the short-term but misery in the long-run. Don't be drawn into your MIL's problem. Be kind to her, maintain your boundaries and above all, do not feel jealous or that you are losing ground to her.

[areyoumymother]

This post is directed to Moraw

Very eloquent. What experience do you have of this type of situation, that the OP should put weight on your never having known 'fighting with an MIL to yield long-term satisfaction'? And what, in concrete terms, do you suggest that the OP does to 'stand up for herself' that is different to what she has already tried (and which is plainly not working for her). And how do you suggest that the OP follows your advice by just not feeling emotions that are clearly reasonable?

And what the heck is a pyrrhic victory? I think most posters on this thread would be quite pleased to hear of some kind of victory, especially if it involves bonfires :)

Bullying is just wrong. You don't put up with it. Nor do you bully back.

I wonder if you have an avoidance issue that means you equate stopping someone with an act of war? Or have you been taught to think that letting another person feel the weight of your personality is a morally incorrect thing to do?

[LoonvanBoon]

areyou, a pyrrhic victory is one where the cost is so great that it pretty much amounts to a defeat.

I know this because it once came up in an essay question in an exam I was sitting, & I didn't have a fecking clue what it meant & so my answer was (inevitably) a load of crap.

I agree with your points, BTW!

[bigbluecat]

Thanks for all your responses!

Firstly, I agree with all your responses wrt 'fab nanna' - I meant more that the way she interacts with him directly is good, obviously in other ways she is less than fab.

I don't think I can cut all contact - I agree that it wouldn't be a great idea to just destroy the relationship with them entirely - but after reading these responses I have reconsidered allowing him to go for sleep-overs with MIL and have decided that he will only be seeing the PILs at our house where we can keep an eye on things. MIL won't like this as she has been very keen on DS spending time with her and FIL at their house without DH and me around. Any ideas what I can say if they ask why he's not sleeping over any more?

DH is not brilliant at responding in my defence in the moment, but after the last time she yelled at me she stormed out and sent a long, bitchy text about me to DH, and he replied and said all the right things (she ignored all his points, hurled one last insult at us and then declared the discussion closed) so I feel she knows we are on the same side.

As far as reacting to her bullying goes, I am glad the consensus seems to lie with taking the polite-but-assertive approach. This is actually pretty much what I've been doing already, so I'll carry on, except now I'll feel less guilty about the fact that it always ends in her getting shouty - previously I've wondered if the best tactic would be just to keep my mouth shut altogether.

I would hedge a bet that the reason your MIL is so self righteous and entitled over her "Nana" status is because she ballsed up her own caregiving of your DH.

Agree with this. I do suspect that, ultimately, she is so volatile towards me because she doesn't like that I am more central in the lives of my DH and DS than she is. DH has a bit of a non-relationship with her and tbh I would be gutted if I ended up with a similar relationship with DS - I can see how it might make her resentful of me.

[MexicanSpringtime]

Just wanted to ask, was your ds annoyed with you when he said this? I know when I was small and my mother made me angry I would tell her that I preferred my sister's cooking to hers, as I thought that was the most hurtful thing I could say (don't know why).

Maybe your son, in his innocence, thinks that this is the most hurtful thing to say, in which case just laugh it off.