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follow-up to last night's problem lodger update(45 Posts)
A bit of history for anyone wanting to catch up; Post One and Post Two.
Tonight, heart pounding, I went to the flat with my mum. From the moment I opened the door, it was obvious that no one was in, so I went into the kitchen, where I had left my second note to Spencer and Sweetie, and found a note from them in return:
Sweetie and I received your note however we are both away this weekend and leaving straight from work. Sweetie is working Monday night, therefore it might be best to talk Tuesday?
[Sweetie working on Monday night isn't unusual, as she does it every week. This part didn't concern me, but...]
Text me on [number] and let us know what works for you!
[This is a blatant mockery of my phrasing from my first note, when I ended almost the exact same sentence with an exclamation mark because I thought a full-stop made it sound too much like an imperative.]
My reaction last night expressed disappointment and hurt towards a note you left us asking us to move out. You had all evening to talk to us or indeed wait until the next day to speak to us face to face. Coming home late on Tuesday to a small note hanging on our door was upsetting.
[This is pretty much what he kept repeating when we had our "conversation" (when he was 'full of rage'), despite me saying that I left the note because I wanted to give them as much notice as possible and let them know that evening. Also, take note he's still demanding me to acknowledge that what I did was wrong, wrong, WRONG; good luck there mate.]
Your latest note makes me feel like a criminal for no reason. Statements such as "I'm not comfortable being around you alone at the moment" are unfair and unjustified. I made several attempts after quickly sharing my thoughts [CAN WE ALL JUST LOL AT THIS FOR A MOMENT] to pause the conversation and save it for another day but you persisted to badger me.
[Let's just reflect... him furiously aiming accusations at me, and me giving reasons for each action he had fault with, counts as me 'badgering' him. As for 'quickly sharing my thoughts'... HAHAHAHA.]
Regardless of who said or did what this all could have been avoided and a lot easier if you spoke to us. [Translation: admit you were wrong. YOU WERE WRONG BECAUSE I SAY SO. I AM THROWING MY TOYS OUT OF THE PRAM.] Perhaps we should all draw a line in the sand and talk about it on Tuesday as we should have done to begin with.
[Translation: You're still wrong, and I'm angry because I'm a control freak who doesn't feel in control of this situation and I'm having a major tantrum.]
Speak soon, have a good weekend."
[Translation: go fuck yourself.]
My mum is also raging because, as she rightly puts it, there's nothing to actually talk about. I own the flat, and I've asked them to leave, that's all there is to it. Mum thinks he so desperately wants this talk because he wants to try and regain some control over the situation, and I agree. Well, he's got another thing coming. I won't deny that I'm still scared of him but now it's slowly turning into anger. I'm FURIOUS. He's not going to find me easy to bend, and I'm certainly not breaking, not with my entire family behind me (even my grandma, who arrived from Birmingham on Wednesday, and whose first words to me were "I've bought my boxing gloves, for your mate").
I'm at my flat now, with the door securely bolted - you can't enter once it's bolted from the inside. Tomorrow I'm seeing my parents and trying to make a concrete plan of action. My mum has told me not to be hasty but I'm adamant that at the slightest hint of him losing control when we (eventually) have our talk, they're getting booted out.
As far as living arrangements, I'm not sleeping here while either of them are here. Despite my mum's protests, I've not the smallest doubt that the second he tries to start any bullshit, they are GOING. I live on the same road as two language schools, and there are three more within a five minute walk (I work as an EFL teacher but not in the are where I live). During the summer season, host families are in extremely high demand and it'll be no hassle to get a nice female student in for six weeks. It won't pay as much as they currently do, but it'll be worth it.
This morning, at my parents' house, I woke up for the first time in weeks purely because I woke up, not because of numerous doors slamming. It was utter bliss.
Look - this is horrible. But it doesn't need to be as horrible as you are making it
Presumably you have female lodger's number? I presume there is no argument that they have any other status bar lodgers as you live there too?
If not, just text female lodger and give her and him 72 hours to get out. Too bad if they're away for a bit if it.
Get your parents to stay in the flat with you. All wait and supervise them bag packing etc and then change the locks as soon as they leave
Do not enter into any discussions with either and call the police if they kick off
you jsut can not have them living there until august. they are going to make you iller than they are already doing.
Agree ^^. You give notice. That's it. Don't get into all this he said I said stuff
Dear lodger. I give you notice to leave effective Friday night. You must vacate by Tuesday night.
That's all. Don't get into the angst.
What a horrible situation, I feel so sorry for you. He sounds like a complete bully. It's your house but while they are there it isn't your home. Do what you have to do to get them out as soon as possible, you don't owe them anything - not a conversation about how long they stay, not any concern about Sweetie, she has made her choice to be with him. Get them out as soon as possible and keep your family and DP close while they move out. And change the locks when they go.
You own the flat. If they are not gone within 72 hours call the police to remove them. They have forfeited the right to any consideration from you by his abusive behaviour. It's OK to do this. It's his fault if they are temporariy homeless. Their wellbeing is not your problem.
Get a backbone. Change the locks. You are turning this info a soap opera!
Just read the whole of your three threads. Just kick them out by Sunday. No question. Just do it. Seriously what are you waiting for?
Rather than starting a new thread for this update, you could just add to the existing one. A few people were on it because they knew things were happening on Friday. You could post a link to this thread on your last one.
1 Text both of them- "nothing to discuss, I am giving 72 hours' notice for you to leave." Mention harassment if you want.
2 Refusing to sleep in your own flat until they go is sending the message that you're not in control. Have your mother or bf with you if you want support (2 against 1 isn't nice). I'd go for your bf as you said previously that his presence would irritate spence. Get it over with.
I agree , this is ridiculous. You should have kicked them out when he started being aggressive. Staying out of your home is giving him power he really doesn't deserve. I would ring female friend and tell her two days , no discussion.
Move dp in. Atmosphere cannot get any worse. As you say door can be bolted from inside. Don't let him bolt you out!
I think it would be best to tell them to just go. I'd tread carefully leaving them alone in the flat for the next few weeks, in case that changes their status from 'lodger' to 'tenant renting a flat'. Not sure that would be the case, but just throwing it in there.
I'm adamant that at the slightest hint of him losing control when we (eventually) have our talk, they're getting booted out
This is bonkers. our talk ?! It is like you are breaking up with an abusive boyfriend. He is a lodger. He has threatened you. You are too scared to stay in your own home. You called 101. They said to phone 999 in future.
FFS, you do not have a talk You send an eviction text. 72 hours.
DO NOT LEAVE YOUR HOME. It is your home. Any shit, call the police and kick them out immediately. Why would you do anything else?
Natasha - was just coming back to post that
OP - this is all very odd. Are you aware that you are coming across as spoiling for a fight - when you don't need to?
Seriously - either own your behaviour and have a huge ding dong, if that's what you want, or move them out relatively painlessly in the way previously suggested.
I would not endlessly ruminate with your parents and granny about the injustice of it all and who said what and what you should say back.
If I was your DM, I would be concentrating on calming you down and practically supporting you to make this as quick and painless as possible. Not urging you not to be "hasty" - why not ? Surely your DM doesn't want to prolong the agony?!
Are you aware that you are coming across as spoiling for a fight - when you don't need to?
I'm a LL and don't know the rights if you or your lodgers in this situation. My advice, be damn sure of your rights and stick to the letter of the law in giving minimum notice with no discussion needed. In the meantime, have as many people in your home with you as possible. Don't he alone and make your you assert you use of your home.
Look at this this. If your lodgers are sharing your kitchen and living area they have NO rights.
I have been in this situation and have just got rid of my unwanted lodgers. I gave a date that I wanted them out by and said I would change the locks and put their stuff on the street if they were not gone by the date I had given...
They both left earlier than the date I asked.
i would change the locks today and text them saying they need to move their stuff out by tuesday at the latest and they need to give you notice of when you need to be there to let them in to do that as you have had to change the locks due to his aggressive behaviour. i would even consider packing their stuff for them so all they have to do is walk in, pick it up and go. as others have said have your bf stay with you and lots of people there when they come to collect their stuff. if he starts trying to argue just say i'm not willing to enter into this with you again and if you are refusing to go i shall call the police.
i would probably call 101 for advice and to inform them of what you are doing and that you are concerned because of previously aggressive behaviour and can they advise you what you should do if he becomes aggressive again.
Go back and change, the locks, stay in your flat. Text the gf and tell her she can come and get their stuff but if he tries to enter you will call the police.
Stop trying to be nice.
If you've told them to leave then there is no talk to be had on Tuesday! Who cares whether Sweetie is working on Monday night? His note is just a load of cobblers, and you know that he's manipulating you. You've asked them to go and he wants a TALK. On TUESDAY.
Text him back and tell them they pack their shit and leave on Monday morning at the latest or it will be out on the street.
You've been warned before: you MUST NOT leave your flat! You are in danger of them coming back and locking you out. They could be in there right now, changing the locks.
Be clear. Be firm. Hold firm and do not prevaricate.
I too think you are looking for a fight when there doesn't need to be one. You've told them to get out, he then became abusive and at that point you should have said you can get out now or you'll call the police.
Text them and tell them they have 72 hours to get out, no discussion and you are not open to discussion. Have people with you.
Hello everyone, and thank you once again for your input and your words of advice. I'm ashamed to say that last night, as some of you have commented, I think I was in the frame of mind to spoil for a fight - the combination of his letter and the several(!) glasses of wine that I had made me feel enraged at everything about this situation, and I think more than anything else at myself for letting this happen/letting it get this far. I'm usually a very rational and calm person, and it's not like me to lose control, which I think I did last night. I feel like I should apologise for submitting you all to it, and add this to 'why you don't drink and internet'.
Joysmum - my lodgers are what is known as excluded occupiers (info on the link that kyotokate kindly provided), giving them minimal rights and generally it's accepted that 28 days notice is the right amount to give, but this is flexible and it can be much shorter on grounds of unreasonable behaviour.
Gobbolinothewitchscat - the only reason she is saying that is because I've been hit with a lot of bills this month and she's worried about me financially. Heck, I'M worried about me financially. I'm going to tell her my plan (about getting a student in) today to try and placate her fears.
Some of you have suggested having my DP move in with me. As much as I would love that, he's going through a lot at the moment with his dissertation proposal, and finding out his fire station posting. I think I'll ask him to do so, but let him know that I don't want this to negatively impact on his studies or placement, and if it's not the right thing for him to do at the moment then that's alright.
Others have mentioned the "talk". I agree with you that it's silly to have one - I initially offered it as an 'ok, this is what we're going to do, and do you want any help from me in terms of looking for other places/packing', but as I wasn't explicit about it, I think he's of the mind that it's a chance to negotiate. I'm going to make it clear that it's not.
TheHoneyBadger - the police are aware of the situation and have told me to ring 999 if he becomes intimidating/aggressive when we do finally see each other. I do like your suggestion as it's the course of action that I've been the most tempted towards already.
Finally, as others have suggested, I will stick to this thread in future if I'm adding anything else about this situation. I should have continued on my previous thread as others have mentioned, but I wasn't thinking straight last night. Apologies once again for ranting and thank you all for putting up with it, and your continuing supportive input.
I'd be changing the locks though, it's easier tO evict lodgers than squatters .....
"Generally it's accepted that 28 days notice is the right amount to give, but this is flexible and it can be much shorter on grounds of unreasonable behaviour."
"Generally accepted" my arse! You can ask them to go and give whatever notice you think appropriate under the circumstances. They have no rights whatsoever. You can and should ask them to leave by Monday morning at the latest. You need to be absolutely clear about what you expect to happen. If you waver now you'll be walked right over.
Send your texts now and get back to your flat asap! He's proven to you the type of person he is. Don't expect him to acquiesce and go quietly.
Never, EVER share your home with a couple again. Been there. Done that. Bought the T-shirt. You're outnumbered in your own home and that's not a good place to be. Most especially if you're not really thick-skinned or assertive and come into contact with a bully.
do it then! in fact give them a time. say i will be at the flat from 12-4 on sunday during which time you can come and collect your possessions. if you do not i will be putting it out on the street at 4. i have taken legal advice and the locks have been changed and police have been contacted re: your aggressive behaviour.
it'll be an awful day but it will all be over and done with. it needs finishing.
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