Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.

STBXH wants to visit the children in the early mornings?

(136 Posts)
BelleBoyd Mon 23-Jun-14 04:38:46

My H and I are separating. My decision-he's against it and unwilling to go. He says he won't go till we've made all the access decisions.
He is looking for a room in a flatshare or he's been offered a room at his aunts. He won't rent a flat as he says he doesn't have the money. He hasn't an interest in having the children overnight-he's never done nights as in feeding DS or getting up with DD if she wakes or is unwell. He also finds it hard to get up early.
Anyway I am happy for him to see the children- 4 month old DS and 4 year old DD as much as he likes on the weekend to go swimming/park etc. But he wants to come to the house in some of the early weekday mornings to see them both sometime between 5-8am and also to do bedtime. He arrives home usually at bedtime-7.30pm and it always excites DD and I find it harder to get her to bed. If he's late and I get her to bed before he's back it's much smoother plus DS is usually asleep by 7pm.
Seeing the children at these times would be really disruptive to their routine and I think not in their best interests. I do want him to have as much access to them as he likes but not that doesn't benefit them. I'm also worried they would be confused if his visits are in my home apart from the fact it would be difficult for me also.
I've suggested him taking DD to school but he says he can't. Or coming home early to take them out after school but he also says he can't.
He wants me to "prove" that seeing them here and at those times isn't appropriate..he is very controlling.

Thumbwitch Mon 23-Jun-14 07:39:57

If you don't want his stuff there, then bag/box it up, give him a time to remove it, and then say if he doesn't take it you will leave it out in the front garden and whatever happens to it then is his responsibility. It is not up to you to store his shit! It is up to him to find alternative accommodation that is either big enough for his shit, or he can find storage for it.

I understand that you have no time/inclination/thought of another man, but he will definitely think that it is on the cards, especially if you are the instigator of this split. He will refuse to believe that it is solely because he is a controlling knob that you've had enough of, because how could he possibly believe that? He can't!

If you're 100% sure that he's not coming back and you've had enough, then you need to get rid of him and all his stuff and leave him to sort himself out by himself. You have no need to take responsibility for him. You're not his mother.

ThinkIveBeenHacked Mon 23-Jun-14 07:44:25

Agree - say yes to anything to get him out.

Alternatively, tell him that once you both no longer live together, he will not be welcome in the home. As the dcs go to bed at seven, he can collect them to take them out at a set time and have them back for half six for bedtime prep (aww diddums he wont get there til 7.3, too late!) , and in the morning you will have them ready for half seven am and he can collect and take them somewhere in the hour he has.

Im assuming weekend access wont be happening in your home?

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 23-Jun-14 07:46:46

Another one urging you to get him out a.s.a.p. and take it from there. See a solicitor about what is reasonable and fair access, make him a formal offer of a particular schedule and then let him contest it but from outside the home. Same with maintenance. Agree with others that he doesn't really want to see the DCs in the mornings, he just wants to keep tabs on who you're having breakfast with.... hmm

LumpySpacedPrincess Mon 23-Jun-14 07:51:49

Jut say yes and get him out, then deliver all his stuff to his new home. Start mediation, change the locks. Do what you need to get him out of your home.

Whocansay Mon 23-Jun-14 07:56:45

Agree and get him out of your house. Give yourself some breathing room.

Chances are, once he's gone, he won't really want these 5am starts.

And if he wants to 'look' for stuff, tell him you will find it and give it to him. Bag up all his stuff ready for him to take somewhere else.

And get legal advice.

Itsfab Mon 23-Jun-14 08:02:45

TMM the fact that he is trying to control you is the reason you should go down the legal route asap.

You can say why these times are not for the children's benefit. He can't but he will have to try in court..

If you don't want his stuff there, then bag/box it up, give him a time to remove it, and then say if he doesn't take it you will leave it out in the front garden and whatever happens to it then is his responsibility. It is not up to you to store his shit! It is up to him to find alternative accommodation that is either big enough for his shit, or he can find storage for it.

Please do not do this if you both own your home. As harsh as it may seem, until divorce and finances are sorted, if you are homeowners, he has much right to keep his items in the house as you do. Leaving it in a garden etc could land you in trouble.

CogitoErgoSometimes Mon 23-Jun-14 08:18:21

It 'could' land someone in trouble theoretically but, in practice, most people would not react to finding their stuff in a bag on the doorstep by calling in the police or lawyers. In fact, can you imagine how far eyes would be rolled in the average police station to the shout 'man complaining about finding property in box in garden'....?

BelleBoyd Mon 23-Jun-14 08:20:56

He doesn't have a car. He uses mine which I want to stop now. Just had a row about that this morning. DDs grandma ( his mum)wants to take her to the circus near hers(2 hours drive away) and has suggested H take DD. But H won't go unless he uses my car. He could get coach or train but won't. He says the car is better for DD..isn't actually as she loves the train. Every decision is an argument.
Think I may end up taking his stuff to a storage unit that I'll pay for to at least stop him using that as an excuse to come round.

cozietoesie Mon 23-Jun-14 08:26:21

I only had to read the title of your thread and I was thinking what Thumbwitch said - eg early mornings to check/inhibit you if you have a man there overnight and 'bedtimes' to check that you're not about to go out on the town with a babysitter in place.

Oh Boy.

BelleBoyd Mon 23-Jun-14 08:27:13

As much as he's a total wanker I couldn't just throw out his stuff. I find it really hard to be like that and also I don't want to give him ammunition to fight me with.

It 'could' land someone in trouble theoretically but, in practice, most people would not react to finding their stuff in a bag on the doorstep by calling in the police or lawyers. In fact, can you imagine how far eyes would be rolled in the average police station to the shout 'man complaining about finding property in box in garden'

You may think so, but I know of incidents where it has ended up in court as part of the financial remedy and the judges certainly did not look kindly on it.

Make all access arrangements asap If you have not started divorce proceedings do so and asap.

His current proposal is nothing more than an attempt to further steamroller you around. He certainly does not have the childrens interests at heart here; you are all but possessions to him anyway.

If you have never read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft I would suggest you do so as well. In your case as well I would also be speaking to Womens Aid.

He has and will continue to make your life and in turn your childrens lives as difficult as possible; this is all "punishment" in his eyes for you having the gall to leave him. Even post divorce and separation he will continue to be as bloody minded as he is now; this is really all about power and control. These men do not give up their victims at all easily.

You will end up having to formalise absolutely everything on a legal footing; any informal arrangements will be ignored by him because this man just wants his own way. Would also say no to any mediation offered as well because it will be no point putting yourself through yet more anguish. It will turn into yet more attempts at point scoring on his part.

Thumbwitch Mon 23-Jun-14 08:56:45

Take him off your insurance for the car, then he won't be able to borrow it.

If you start off paying for storage for his stuff, then you will end up continuing to pay for it, plus if it's in your name and anything goes wrong, you could end up with trouble you don't need.
It really is up to him to relocate his stuff. You wouldn't be throwing it out, you would be packing it up for him to remove - if he then fails to remove it, it's his problem. Do you have a garden shed? Does your garden have separate access, i.e. not through the house? You could always bung it in there if he doesn't pick it up within a reasonable time frame.
But eventually you need to get rid of it. Take it to his mum's if nothing else will work!

LumpySpacedPrincess Mon 23-Jun-14 08:57:36

What is the situation with finances? Do you both own the house?

BelleBoyd Mon 23-Jun-14 10:54:03

That's a good idea re insurance. No garden shed..his mum lives 2/3 hours away plus I couldn't fit all his stuff in one car load.
I own the house outright-no mortgage. Bought it on my own when we were separated before.
If I packed it all up and said for him to get it he wouldn't-he's the sort of person who would let it all be thrown out to make an idiotic point.

I own the house outright-no mortgage. Bought it on my own when we were separated before.

Unfortunately he will probably have a claim to some of your house as you are married.

Lucked Mon 23-Jun-14 11:07:24

Tbh I would agree to get him out and then say, actually this isn't working or do the " prove it" but bugger off when he is there. He clearly doesn't want the hard work of the kids on his own.

I would be going to the 24 hour supermarket at 5 am with a travel mug of hot tea and my kindle. Same with bedtime, I would pop to my mums and ask him to phone when they are sleeping and I can come home. I am incredible stubborn and couldn't cope with feeling controlled.

I think if he want to maintain good assess then he will need to do overnights. If this becomes the status quo neither of you will be able to move on. He also needs to find somewhere to live that he can bring them if the weather is awful. I would be advising him to move into his aunts in the short term so he can really determine what he needs in his new home.

Jux Mon 23-Jun-14 11:10:29

Please find a solicitor and start the divorce ball rolling. You need someone on your side who will fight on your behalf. It sounds to me that he has spent a long time grinding you down, and as a result you are likely to agree to things for a quiet life which you will later regret.

Paying to store is stuff - bad use of money
Paying for a solicitor - more expensive but money well spent

Do you have any trustworthy male friends that you could invite round? You have every right to have male visitors - and to have sex with an entire football team should you wish to. (I know you don't actually want a relationship with a man at present and it is generally not a good idea to embark on dating when you have just got rid of an abuser but it can be handy to demonstrate that, actually, you are not going to obey your abuser, and that his opinion of you is unimportant.
Definitely take legal advice on getting the man removed. As you own the house, you should be able to evict him by force if he won't leave, particularly if there has been abuse. In the meantime, just 'Yes, H' to everything - it's fine to lie to an abuser to get rid of him.

BelleBoyd Mon 23-Jun-14 12:59:02

He's just informed me he wants to set up a conference call telephone consultation with a child psychologist to sort out the access arrangements?!
He's actually found somewhere that offers this and is proceeding with getting it organised.

cozietoesie Mon 23-Jun-14 13:05:38

He's just informed me.....

He's actually found.....

He's proceeding.......

Get yourself to a solicitor directly. Find one this afternoon and make the appointment.

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone Mon 23-Jun-14 13:09:37

Go to a solicitor. Find out about the house first and foremost - how long have you been married? How long has he been back after you bought it? It's possible you might be able to get him out, but as far as I can see it's probably the 'marital home' and that makes it difficult.

You could mention the nonsense about the child psychologist to the solicitor and ask what the best wording is to give him a 'no of course not, don't be such a twat' reply.

Just ignore him. He is not in charge. Consult a solicitor straight away. Mediation and counselling are a bad idea when the man is abusive and controlling, so there is no need to waste your time with them.

Has there been any abuse that's needed police involvement in the past?

zipzap Mon 23-Jun-14 13:19:04

if his aunt would let him have a room would she let him have his stuff there if you just took it around - even if it took several trips and even if he wasn't staying there?

or how about one of those mini shed things that are a cross between a box and a storage place that can be locked and left outside - like this sort of thing - www.homebase.co.uk/en/homebaseuk/metal-tool-store---4x2ft-300965 - so that all his stuff is outside and whilst it is locked, I'm guessing it isn't in any way as waterproof as being inside. It would be cheaper than renting a storage unit for him, if he wanted access then he'd be at your house but at least in the garden, and it would be an incentive for him to move his stuff asap as he wouldn't want it in the lock box...

Join the discussion

Join the discussion

Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.

Register now