Please give me your perspective on this - anger and stonewalling?

[readallthethreads]

This is a new a/c for me but have been on mumsnet for years. I cannot post under my original name as a couple of years ago my H must have somehow found my name changes as I found my threads that he must have read (about him) and had saved into the favourites under a hidden folder.

My H can be a very angry person at times. Last week is a typical eg whereby he literally had his face pushed right up against mine, his head was blood red and he was screaming at me. This was because my car was due to go in for some repairs and my insurance company said they were classing my car as undriveable and would deliver a courtesy car. I took this to mean that I should not drive my car as it was not insured to be on the road. The garage advised the only car available was an automatic or i could wait 4 days for a manual. I need a car for work and so was going to accept the automatic (up until 2.5 yrs ago I drove an auto for 2 yrs anyway). My H was mad about this and said I should wait for the manual and because i genuinely thought I shouldnt drive my car as it was classed as undriveable I was happy to just accept the automatic hence why he ended up screaming in my face. (It turns out I was wrong about the fact that it wouldn't have been covered by the insurance, just that the insurance recommends it isn't driven).

After such events my H thinks it is ok to carry on as if nothing has happened. I find these sort of things very upsetting for various reasons, because I should be able to choose for myself if I am ok with the car for eg and also because I think even if he doesn't think I am making the right choice he shouldn't scream at me as he does. He used to say sorry and then we would have the talk about why it isn't acceptable and move on but some time ago I told him it is no good just saying sorry he needs to stop doing it at all. So now he doesn't apologise and so because of this I do not speak to him as I am fed up of being treated like this.

I think my H finds it very difficult to deal with any sort of stressful situation, and this makes him angry.

So my query is does this mean I am stonewalling him? How would you deal with this type of situation? To an outsider It could look as though I am abusing him - maybe I am?

I would never have wanted to break the family up, but I think it has got to the point where it may need to happen.

[Jan45]

Eh, no love, he's abusing you and quite violently too.

I couldn't take this crap from anyone, just cos you've been putting up with it doesn't mean you carry on, tell him you've had enough, he either stops tormenting you or you walk, simple as that.

[SocialNeedier]

No it means he's an abusive twat and you've probably reached the point where you just want to get off the merry go round of abuse.

It's not stonewalling to not want to engage with a bully.

[SocialNeedier]

Stonewalling is using silence as a form of control. To keep the other person on the back foot because they're not sure what they've done to deserve being frozen out as punishment.

What you're describing here is not the same. Your silence is self protection.

[ouryve]

No. He is abusing you.

He snoops on you on the Internet.
He shouts in your face - even worse that it's over something as trivial as whether your courtesy car is manual or automatic.

A family loves and cares for each other. By leaving him, you would not be doing anything to deprive you and your kids of being genuinely loved and cared for.

[LavenderGreen14]

I agree he is abusing and controlling you. He didn't want you to have a car for 4 days did he?

Get support and get rid. It isn't your fault and you didn't cause any of this.

[hellsbellsmelons]

H finds it very difficult to deal with any sort of stressful situation
But what was stressful about this situation? I'm confused.
You got a courtesy car. No problem.
It's an automatic. No problem.
It's YOUR car replacement, not his. No problem.

This sounds like full on abuse to me.
I believe you should call Women's Aid and talk to them about everything you put up with.
Because I know this once incident is just the tip of the iceberg.
Right in your face! It sounds like it's just one tiny step away from you being physically abused.

Call WA and see what they say.
Call CAB and see what your are entitled to if he leaves or you leave.
This sounds like hell to live with.
You get one shot at life. Make the most of it and don't put up with any kind of abuse.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

There's no reason for anyone to be screaming in your face. Certainly not the person to whom you are meant to be closest. If this is typical behaviour on his part then it's nasty and deliberately intimidating, not because he finds it difficult to deal with stress. It's not stonewalling to pull back when you're being intimidated... it's a fear reaction.

I agree with others that you are being bullied and that it's unacceptable

[Twinklestein]

I wouldn't class deciding to take an automatic car as a 'stressful situation'. Trying to bully you to take the manual is irrational.

So, yes I agree with all the other posters, this is abusive behaviour.

[readallthethreads]

Thank you all for your posts.

He was saying that because I am not used to driving an auto now that I will forget when kids distract me and accidentally go for clutch engaging the brake and that someone will run into me and it would be my fault (even though technically it wouldn't).

It is not good to live with.

Anything that is not normal everyday stuff is to him stressful, he is basically someone who cannot deal with life I think.

It was nearly a week before we eventually spoke because when I only answered him when it was to do with the kids rather than in normal conversation he gave up. We ended up having to talk as there were some family things on over the Easter week. When I try to talk to him on these sort of things I feel as though if he is in the right mood he just says all the right things but when he is in stressy mode it is not worth approaching him.

[Jan45]

Stop him having all the control, and control over you too, this is not a healthy team relationship, it's all very one sided bullying.

[ThePriory]

Oh dear... So by default, he really thinks you are so stupid that you will 'forget' whether you are driving a manual or automatic??

[Clutterbugsmum]

He abusing as I betting he doesn't behave like this with friends/other family member or in at work.

There was no reason for him to behave like this over your car. Whether you car was insured or not they said it was undrivable so it is either badly damaged or very unsafe.

You took the car that would mean you could carry on with your normal jobs/tasks.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"he is basically someone who cannot deal with life I think."

I think he is basically someone who likes to create an atmosphere of fear and intimidation in order to retain control. People like that can be completely irrational and fly off the handle at the very slightest of things, just to keep everyone on the back foot and a bit nervous about what might trigger another outburst.

It's not 'stress mode' it's bullying mode. Very common, very nasty and should be rejected at every turn

[readallthethreads]

Again thank you very much. You are all so right, I have become conditioned to this, and when he says it is my fault and that I shouldn't wind him up I question myself.

One of the most stupid things is that to others outside I would seem so capable, I hold down a full time very demanding job, am the major earner and also run the household with a little help from him. Why then do I feel so scared to make the changes needed in order to make my life better?

[dwinnol]

I agree with hellsbellsmelons. You only get one go at this adventure called life and you are being bullied and abused. How long before it affects your kids and they either become the target of his bullying or they emulate his behaviour? Stop this now. You won't regret it.

[cestlavielife]

what are you worried about?
that he might get even more angry if you ask him to leave?
there are ways round this - call in friends, call the police etc.

write down al the possible implications of asking him to leave and address them one at a time.
either yourself or on here.

and the positives once he is out of your house - quieter calmer atmosphere no treading on eggshells etc.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

It's not that you seem capable etc, you are capable. But manipulative people who use bullying tactics can really undermine your confidence, not least in your own judgement. Can happen to anyone at all and it doesn't mean you are a weak person. Plus you're talking about a husband and a lot of things in your life are bound up together. So when you're talking about 'changes needed' to make your life better, they're going to be quite far-reaching.

In the first instance operate 'zero tolerance' on the bullying stuff. Stand up to it every single time. Say what you want to say and do what you want to do rather than second-guess his reaction. If you can, try to detach and look at his behaviour objectively rather than taking it personally.... see him through fresh eyes.

I'd always recommend to someone that they talk to a solicitor. Not necessarily because a split is imminent but just to have the knowledge in the back of the mind that there are other options.

[hookedonchoc]

Does he do this to anyone else? If not, he is perfectly capable of controlling himself, he just chooses to lash out at you. This is not a situation I would want my children modelling their behaviour on.

[readallthethreads]

He has occassionally done this to other people when he is very stressed out but most usually to me.

I guess I am most afraid that he would give up work and get the children to live with him (up until 8 months ago I worked more than full time and he had been the sahp). I am also afraid of where we would live - of the process of selling the house and finding suitable housing.
And also I would need to work less as I currently start work at 6am and if the children were with me I wouldn't be able to do that. (I changed my hours when he started work to do a bit from 6am until taking them to school/nursery and then back after drop off until school collection time).

Another big fear is what it will do to the children - I feel like I am about to ruin their lives if I make these changes. My son always says he never wants to move from this house (for eg when he watches a childrens programme where they are moving house or something like that).

Also the house needs quite a lot of decorating just to make it presentable as we had some builders works done a few years ago and there are a couple of things that need finishing off - I know I would have to sort all that but do think it would be worthwhile as I am sure it would maximise the sale proceeds.

I am most grateful for all the advice. I think the bit about seeing a solicitor is worthwhile.

It's like I know what the right thing to do is but I am unable to do it? It makes me cross with myself for being so weak.

[dwinnol]

When someone is behaving like this in a relationship it's like a big dirty secret. And you feel compelled to keep it under wraps because his behaviour reflects on you. The reality is he is relying on you to keep his dirty secret and will blame you if it's out. He will blame you no matter what but it's his behaviour that is completely unacceptable. Adults can control themselves if they choose to.

[cestlavielife]

frankly you are ruining your dc lives by making them live with an angry man full time and the dc having to witness him screaming at you.

how is life when you and dc go out without h or are at home without h around?

why do you have to move?

[in any case your son's views irrelevant if you have already decided to move - you would move with or without h; also in a world where your son wants some control as he hearing and seeing two adults fight and shout, naturally he wants something to stay the same...so you cant make decisions on your son's apparent feelings. he can be helped to deal with those emotions whatever happens. ]
why cant you stay put for now and have him move?
do you go out to work at 6 am then come back?
can you change your hours again?

[Phineyj]

I had a boss like this many years ago - your thread has taken me right back. He used to do what you describe with the being quite normal afterwards, just after he'd shouted at you over some trivial thing (he was quite good in a genuine crisis, however). Your H sounds truly awful and I guess you have to accept that as the other parent, it's up to you to do the right thing for the long term re the DC, even if it's scary. Can you break leaving down like a work project - one step at time?

[bringbacksideburns]

Give him an ultimatum. Tell him you are very unhappy and unless you go to counselling and he admits he has an anger management problem you want to seperate? It's the ideal time if you are selling up.

Do you love him? Is the relationship worth saving? Does he do anything nice for you to make you feel loved?

Or is it just you going to work at the crack of dawn,earning most of the money, coming home to someone who has done very little to support you and snapping at the slightest thing, infront of your children,screaming in your face and regularly giving you the sulking silent treatment for days at a time like a real Bully? Because if so why would you want to stay?

[bringbacksideburns]

Oh - and abusive men often pick popular, confident, outgoing women and reduce them to nervous wrecks.
I knew someone like that and the good news is she is now happily remarried with a great career and back to where she once was.

[FunkyBoldRibena]

Erm...the clutch you use your left foot; and the brake and acceleration on an auto are both with the right foot; if you go to use the clutch you just hit the floor.

Automatics are considerably safer than manual cars, even if you haven't driven one in years.

You really need to sort this out and get out of this relationship.