I think I was raped. Was I? And can I talk to you about it?

[JustALittleConfusedAndNumb]

I am a regular. I've NCd for this largely because I don't want it linked to my usual name.

I had an emotionally and physically abusive childhood/teenage years. I'm now NC with my mother because of it, and ongoing issues into adulthood. My dad died a couple of years ago. My mother was the EA one, my dad PA.

I have terribly low self esteem and confidence. Well, I had, it's got a lot better recently through counselling. I'm intelligent and professionally qualified. I've always had a sense of not being worthy. It's influenced all the relationship decisions I've ever made. When I was in my late teens and early 20s I ended up dating Big Issue vendors with drug and alcohol problems after dropping out of university because I didn't think I deserved any better. You wouldn't think it now, I live in a very nice area, I have a good job, my children go to good schools, all my friends are very respectable...

When I was 17, I went out with a friend of mine and a man tried to rape me. He was someone I'd been sitting with and talking to in the pub (I know, I know, I was underage and shouldn't have been in there anyway) but I wasn't 'drinking' because I didn't really. I had one pint and then drank coke. My memory of the whole evening is very clear and it happened nearly 23 years ago. I didn't fancy him and I KNOW I wasn't flirting with him. My friend had disappeared with the man she was talking to and I was on my own. Anyway, I left the pub to go home (no bus and a 15 minute safe walk) and this man came out with me. I was young, I didn't know what to do so I carried on.

As we walked around the side of the pub, he pulled me off the street and into this little alcove type thing around the back of the pub and tried to rape me. I managed to get away and he caught up with me. He said he "admired" my "strength" and insisted on walking me home. So I let him. I just wanted to get home and didn't know what else to do. I didn't tell anyone because I knew my mother would blame me. She was very clear that men only rape women because of the signals women send out, i.e. by what they're wearing, by being out, by drinking...

Until about 6 months later when out of nowhere I was supposed to be going to my boyfriend's house and I couldn't leave the house. I was 'fine' but physically couldn't get through the front door, started crying and broke down. My mother wasn't especially sympathetic and so, out of desperation, I told her what had happened. She reacted as I expected and told me "that's what men are like" and if I want to go out I have to "expect that sort of thing to happen". I shouldn't have been in the pub in the first place and that's what happens to girls who talk to men in pubs - "what did you expect?". It wasn't initial anger/panic talking. After my 'telling off' it never got mentioned again.

FFW a few years - "dropped out" of university for unrelated reasons (although related to my mother), dated a range of unsuitable men I had no expectations of whatsoever (as detailed above), yet, was treated kindly and respectfully by all of them (of course, it's relative).

Then I met my son's father. He was my best friend's brother. I'd not known her very long (6 months) when she went on holiday with her mum and they asked me to go and visit her brother to 'keep him company' while they were away. I was 22 he was 24. So I did. And he had a friend there. We watched a couple of rubbish horror films, had dinner, played on the guitars for a bit and messed around on the computer. Nothing more. Then, and I'm not sure how it happened, but he was coming onto me. I resisted and told him I wasn't interested. I was very clear it was a No. Then he asked me why exactly I'd gone round there if I wasn't prepared to have sex with either of them. And so I told him his mum/sister had asked me to go round there to keep him company and he persisted. I kept saying no. By now, he was on top of me on the bed while his friend was on the computer in the corner. And he gave me the choice of him or his friend. But it was clear that it was Hobson's Choice. Not having sex with either of them wasn't an option. So I 'let' him - or rather, I stopped resisting. He didn't even take my knickers off.

My self worth was so fucked up that about 6 months later we ended up getting together for a couple of years and my son was the result. He dumped me when I was 8 months pregnant partly because I embarrassed him by being 'fat' and partly because he'd met someone else.

I then married someone I didn't love and who didn't love me, but did care about me, because I didn't think I was worthy of being loved and I didn't know what a proper relationship looked like.

I don't know what I want from this. I've never told anyone. I just feel very ashamed of myself. Ashamed that I had such low self worth that I allowed it to happen. Ashamed that my boundaries were so fucked up that I couldn't see that it was 'wrong' at the time. Ashamed that I had a relationship with this man afterwards!

I'm a very different person now but I feel so guilty for how I let the me I was be treated. I'm still having counselling, but I'm too ashamed to bring this up.

Sorry that was long.

[TheDoctrineOfSnatch]

Yes, you were raped. He knew he didn't have your consent - you'd clearly said no. I'm so sorry and I believe you .

It's quite common to date the person who raped you as your brain tries to deny or rationalize what happened.

[JustALittleConfusedAndNumb]

Thank you.

And really? I think you're right about the rationalising. I think I probably wanted to believe he just really liked me and was overcome with 'passion' or something.

It wasn't a good relationship. He tried pushing me down the stairs when I was pregnant and went to punch me so hard in the face that when I moved out of the way and he punched the wall behind me, he dislocated his shoulder. Had previously been dislocated so existing weakness was there.

[JustALittleConfusedAndNumb]

I'm just starting to think about it all because I've got a new boyfriend and the inevitable conversations about our pasts are bringing a lot of this stuff to the surface for me and I'm now seeing my past through more mature, better educated and wiser eyes.

It's making me feel quite confused and a little numb. Hence the name.

[Trapper]

I'm sorry this has happened to you. Horrendous. Yes you were raped. No you should not expect (or deserve) to be treated this way.

[AngelinaCongleton]

Yes you were. It was horrendous. No wonder you feel numb and confused. Please try and address with your counsellor eventually. I wonder how many women look back on "incidents" and see them more clearly as the abuse they were.

[Cuddlecouch]

Yes you were raped. I'm so sad and upset for you. And can relate completely to the 'I'm not worth anything' mentality.

[JustALittleConfusedAndNumb]

I haven't talked to anyone IRL, no.

I think that my mother's reaction to the first incident, and a subsequent conversation in which she told me that all women have sex with men when they don't want to at some point that I've only ever really thought of it as being rape if it's violent. Because I didn't sustain any physical injuries, I've never really thought of it as such.

It's only really through being on here for so long that I've started to question it.

It's not something that has prevented me from having relationships, although they've all been abusive in some way. And I find it difficult to see sex as something positive. I don't dislike it, at all, but I don't really see it as an expression of 'love'.

[JustALittleConfusedAndNumb]

Bullets In a conversation with a boyfriend once, I once told him that if I was asleep and he wanted to, he could. He looked horrified and never did. But remembering all these things is making me realise just how badly I've treated myself over the years and just how accepting I've been of bad things happening.

I'm so ashamed to admit that, but I think it really illustrates just how little self worth I have/had.

[OxfordBags]

I think your mother's attitude towards sex and rape is really messed-up. It actually sounds like she might have been raped herself, a long time ago. And yes, you were raped. It sounds horrendous, you poor thing. Have you considered counselling or therapy? It can really help, trust me.

[Marne]

In my eyes if you said 'no' and he continued then it was rape, it doesn't matter what happened before, why you were there, what signals you gave him, you said 'no'.

Like you I was raped by a man I was in a relationship with, I was 15, young and stupid, he forced himself on me many times, I thought that it was his right to take what he wanted as he was my boyfriend, it wasn't until I was 18 that I realised what he had done too me ( by then we had split up ), it has effected me and my confidence, it has effected the respect I have for myself and what sex should be about, due to this I have let several men take advantage of me, no man has the right to your body without consent weather they are a stranger, your partner or your husband.

[sebsmummy1]

Yes you were raped, and if you had had more support at home I imagine you would have reported him and would certainly not have had a relationship with him later. However as a result you have your beautiful child, so something innocent and cherished did come out of a dark place in your history.

I was also very nearly raped twice in my youth. It was serendipity both times (guy interrupted by someone else) that they didn't manage to finish the deed. I said no each time. I think when we are young we don't have the ability to see the situation in it's entirety. We might look at the initial circumstance - watching videos/walk home as a unthreatening situation where there is either safety in numbers or safety in location. But it's only life experience that teaches us not to put ourselves into the initial circumstance as we might lose control of what happens afterwards.

Do you think you would benefit from some counselling?

[sebsmummy1]

Just perhaps it's not true.

I can only speak from my own experience. Both times I had put myself in a situation as a teenager that with the benefit of life experience I would red flag now as dangerous, hence I wouldn't repeat. Re. getting bladdered with alcohol whilst running around an underage house party with my top off and bra on show (for a bet). I look back on that and think it wasn't the cleverest idea.

[JustALittleConfusedAndNumb]

It's been really interesting reading these.

I'm aware that I have put myself in risky situations since. And I have had sex with men when I haven't wanted to since, but I didn't necessarily say "no" so it's different - I suppose i've let them "take advantage". Because of what my mother said, I don't suppose I ever really considered that women ever said "no" and that meant it didn't happen!

sebsmummy You are right, I do have my beautiful son out of it. He's 15 now and he's amazing. I don't have any negative feelings towards him at all. It isn't something I think about on a daily basis. But I am beginning to think it's all affected how I have viewed myself and allowed myself to be treated since.

I do spend time alone with men now. I have some very good male friends who I would trust completely. I'm aware that doesn't mean I couldn't have a nasty shock one day, but I trust them as much as I could trust them.

The boyfriend I have now is very different to pretty much every man I've ever had any sort of relationship with. And it's his attitude to things that has started me thinking.

Oxford Yes that's interesting. I wonder if she was too. She certainly has some dodgy sexual boundaries. It's one of the reasons we don't see her.

[JustALittleConfusedAndNumb]

I don't think we have a responsibility to 'avoid rapists'. After all, it's not our fault if our house gets broken into.

But I think that it's probably a good idea to reduce the chances of ourselves being the target if there's one about. After all, it's a good idea to close your windows before going out.

But I know that sort of sentiment gets flamed elsewhere on here.

My mother is definitely in the "she was asking for it" camp. But then she also holds women responsible for marriage breakdowns; men having affairs; societal breakdown... She's the biggest misogyinist I've ever met!

[JustALittleConfusedAndNumb]

I'm having counselling for general self esteem issues but I haven't mentioned this. I'm too ashamed.

I know I shouldn't be, but I am.

[sebsmummy1]

Do you know this has just reminded me of an occasion about 5 years ago when I was internet dating and went to the mans house for some food and watch a film. He started initiating sex with me at the end of the evening and trying to undress me and I said No about five times and yet he held me down and carried on anyway. I think i'd blocked that out which is really weird.

I got up and stormed out the house and he came running after me. I guess I could have gone to the Police afterwards but I was more pissed off than anything that he hadn't had to decency to respect my wishes and that I had put myself in that position in the first place.

I suspect date rape is much more common than we think and probably flies under the radar as it leaves the woman quite confused as to whether she premeditated it. Would you believe even after what happened I contacted him again and he ignored me. I can remember wanting to see him again to somehow make what happened previously seem more affectionate? What a fucked up way of thinking. I'm kind of startled I've re-remembered this.

There are an awful lot of nasty bastards out there I think.

[namechangenumbernine]

Your 20s sound a bit like my 20s, especially the bit about dating guys w v low expectations.

I was raped, and it's only very recently I have been able to say this - it's taken 13 years.

I went around telling everyone he was my boyfriend. The truth is, he raped me every time I tried to get him to leave. But there was no way I could process that so I just tried to pretend to everyone, including myself, that the relationship was perfectly desirable.

[JustALittleConfusedAndNumb]

namechange That's awful (not that everyone else's experiences aren't!)

That and I can remember wanting to see him again to somehow make what happened previously seem more affectionate

I were what I was doing. I did end up falling very deeply in love with him. To this day, he is the only man I've ever really felt that I truly loved.

Mine wasn't even 'date rape' (not that that makes any difference either way). It was just 3 people 'hanging out'. Had no idea it was going to take that turn.

Just No, I wouldn't think a friend needed to be ashamed, and I wouldn't think they'd brought it on themselves or deserved it. I suppose one of the reasons I've never mentioned it is because I'm worried about people's reactions. When you have high profile politicians referring to 'proper rape' and the like, I just wouldn't want to have my opinions of a friend/boyfriend challenged because they responded insensitively perhaps because they'd never really considered it/were processing it themselves.

There have been times when I've thought, "If I hadn't gone to his house that evening, it couldn't have happened." But his mum and sister asked me to go round to keep him company and make sure he was eating properly! Not for him to have sex with me when I'd made it clear that I didn't want it and give me the unenviable choice of him or his friend.

I definitely felt intimidated, I knew I wasn't going to get away with not having had sex with either of them. The comments had started to get a bit unpleasant and I just didn't want to be responsible for it escalating further and it, perhaps, turning more aggressive. So I let him.

[JustALittleConfusedAndNumb]

I had a dysfunctional sexual relationship with my exhusband too.

We just didn't ever do it. Probably a dozen times across the whole 14 relationship. It started because he saw sex as something men 'do' to women and, although he didn't know about any of the above really, he knew that I was quite vulnerable and so decided he wasn't going to be one of those men. Because I was 'better' than that. And so we didn't do it.

But all that did was reinforce the difficult relationship I had with it anyway.