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Having the talk

(620 Posts)
lavenderhoney Wed 26-Mar-14 22:15:47

I'm planning to tell my dh its all over and I want a divorce. He isn't going to be very happy about it. I've asked in the past and he has stormed off, refused and told me I'm crazy. He has no problem discussing our problems with or infront of dc age 7 and 4sad he is not a nice man and he is going to be very nasty indeed, I think.

I left almost 3 months ago ( we did live overseas, he is still there and will be for the future , and he is not from the UK) and now is the time. I should have done it before but for various reasons the solicitor said to wait ( financial). I have to talk to her this week and get things moving but I obviously have to tell dh what's coming.

I need some advice on how to handle it, what to say, and what to do with his reactions. And what to expect. I'm bricking it, franklysad

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 27-Mar-14 05:03:16

I don't know if I'm reading it right but if he's still in another country that probably makes your task a little easier. Definitely see the solicitor, agree timings and then make the gap between telling him and sending out any paperwork as short as possible. In addition, you need RL support from friends and family. It's very important that you have a few people close to you that know the full story.

Regarding what you say, as with all bad news I would suggest you keep it brief, factual and don't go into big explanations or discussions. Will it be over the phone?

bumbumsmummy Thu 27-Mar-14 05:17:45

I wouldn't tell him what's coming until you have a very solid plan and all the paperwork you need

Seeking legal advice was a very smart thing to do

Then say to Husband you're going

lavenderhoney Thu 27-Mar-14 13:24:02

Bumbunsmummy- Im not sure what you mean as I've already left, I have been in the uk since the beginning of jan with the dc.

Cog, yes he lives abroad. I don't know whether to tell him in the phone, email or Skype. He may then come to the uk to try to talk me out of it.
I don't have any family in the uk, apart from niece who lives in London and is a high flying busy type. My dm died last autumn. I have a friend who knows but she lives 2 hours away and is always busy.
Another friend knows but they live on the other side of the world, so only available on email / im etc.

antimatter Thu 27-Mar-14 13:26:42

I think you should have everything prepared on the legal side of things and then perhaps write what you want to tell him?

bumbumsmummy Thu 27-Mar-14 13:59:13

Sorry I missed the bit where you'd gone

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 27-Mar-14 14:12:08

As you have DCs your solicitor is going to encourage you to engage in some kind of mediation so, if he's likely to come back to the UK and want to talk to you, it might help if you point him in that direction where communication can be mediated and controlled. Discourage him from turning up at your home.

If it's likely to get emotional or abusive, avoid one-to-one comms like phone or Skype. An e-mail or letter will give you the space to say what you want to say.

lavenderhoney Thu 27-Mar-14 15:05:49

Isn't email at bit cowardly? Yes he will get upset but I think I want to do the right thing. Iyswim. Maybe follow up with an email, perhaps.

He will want to see the dc so I won't be able to stop him coming to the house. Also he probably won't be here longer than a few days due to work commitments if he does fly over. He has no plans to come back and live/ work in the UK. Will we still have to have mediation? Even if he is on Skype for it?
If he comes, that's when he will get the papers.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Thu 27-Mar-14 15:35:21

Since last year H has known you were unhappy and surely he knew the writing was on the wall when he agreed to you coming back to the UK with the DCs.

I know you are already back in the UK lavenderhoney but there might be some points here worth considering especially with regard to international child custody issues and finances:
www.expatica.com/de/family/Partners/Divorce-overseas_-ten-steps-to-protect-your-children_-.html

There may be advantages to one or other of you for the divorce to be handled in a particular country.

What if he wants to move back to his home country? Where will the DCs live? Would they live with you or him or travel between the two of you? I imagine best scenario for you, is that you remain in the UK as resident parent, Papa uses Skype and will come over sometimes.

In fairness to him H will be anxious about his relationship with the DCs and with his extended family. I don't know when the DCs' feelings about arrangements post-divorce will come into play?

www.theguardian.com/law/2014/jan/15/children-separating-parents-say-live-court

H might make life very difficult, there's every chance he'll make sure that this divorce may be expensive and long drawn out. I'm not legal but it strikes me H may defend the divorce, which will delay proceedings and automatically increase your costs.

Delicate negotiations on both childcare and financial arrangements oould be dragged out, especially if every point has to be argued out through solicitors. He may ask a court to intervene in deciding financial and childcare arrangements. As he works abroad, it will be easy for him to neglect to respond to court documents. More delay, more costs.

Let's hope H accepts that you are over as a couple, and comes to some agreement about where the DCs will live and when they spend time with him. Get it down in writing and legally validated. Stipulate the number of visits per year and duration, and mention who pays for flights. If he pays child support, maybe agree he won’t have to pay for the period the kids are staying with him.

lavenderhoney Thu 27-Mar-14 17:44:03

Donkeys, he refuses to face that our marriage is awful, has been for ages and the only option is to split. He still thinks and tells people that he's making this huge sacrifice by staying in the ME and he " let" me go back with the dc. I gave no idea if he is still seeing the ow. Don't care.

He will be incredulous at divorce and behave as though all his behaviour is normal. He will think I have someone else as he won't believe I'd rather be alone. He will tell me I'm crazy and he's coming over to sort it out. I think he lives in a fantasy worldsad

He will insist on giving up his job and coming back - but he can't as he has a loan out there. I don't care if he could come back anyway- he won't be with me. He thinks I have no choice and a shag would sort it out. He won't listen and take it in. He once threatened suicide. He also wanted to split the kids up. This won't happen.

I need to talk to my solicitor. And I really need you posters on mn to keep talking to mesmile im pretty lonely, really. And scared he will somehow change my mind. Or ask for yet another chance. That ship, my friend, has sailed. Or so I keep telling myselfsad

CogitoErgoSometimes Thu 27-Mar-14 17:53:14

In the absence of RL friends I think you're going to find it tough if he goes for an all-out emotional assault. MN can only go so far but your solicitor - because you're paying them - will be more effective.

Do not dismiss e-mails as impersonal or cowardly. They have several important advantages...
1. You cannot get drawn into emotional conversations via e-mail
2. You can express yourself clearly and concisely in your own words, thought out carefully.
3. It is a permanent record of communications... which could prove invaluable legally if he is uncooperative, threatens suicide or other types of manipulation
4. The e-mail response 'talk to my solicitor' is 100% acceptable.

hamptoncourt Thu 27-Mar-14 18:43:55

Also, he does not have to come to your house to see the DC. You can arrange to meet him somewhere neutral. If you are confident he won't run off with the kids you can go off shopping or whatever whilst he takes them out. Obviously if it does turn out he is in the UK for more than a few days then you might need to make different arrangements but keep your boundaries.

As Cog says, you don't have to discuss anything with him really, it can all be dealt with by solicitor.

Very few respondents defend a divorce petition, and in his case it would be impossible to defend as you have been living in separate countries.

Keep the dialogue going with your solicitor and stay calm. Don't let him bully you.

lavenderhoney Thu 27-Mar-14 21:25:15

Hampton, he's likely just to land at lhr, hire a car and turn up. He's not british so has no friends/ family here. And the dc will want to see him in their home. If he's being sensible I don't see why not tbh. If he's going to wait til they go to bed and be a twat that's different. And most likely.

Although he has form for discussing us in front of the dc, and having inappropriate conversations with ds like " mummy is being nasty to daddy and wants to take you away from me etc"

I'm planning to tell him this weekend. I'm going to talk to the solicitor first though. I have a friend coming next weekend but she won't stay if dh is there, ie just turns up.

I don't know why he wants to stay married to me. He treats me with contempt, had an affair and now I've left talks to the dc 2-3 times a week on Skype. He didn't care where we lived or their school, wouldn't talk to them about leaving and thinks its my job to maintain his relationship with them. Plus he promised dd (4) that the next time he saw her he would take her out and get her a real puppy. Fucking mayhem.

Handywoman Thu 27-Mar-14 21:43:16

You've left, he treats you with contempt, he had an affair. Repeat these words regularly. Stay in the drivers seat, let your solicitor help you. Keep posting

thanks

mammadiggingdeep Fri 28-Mar-14 08:16:00

No more advice to add just wanted to let you know you're not alone, and it will all be ok. Keep posting.

flowers and brew

mamas12 Fri 28-Mar-14 09:04:06

You really do not have to have him in your home, you have to start thinking he can still tell you what to do - he can't and its fab!
Please think about this and draw a line at your front door. This will be a useful physical and psychological barrier for you both .
Arrange to meet at a play centre or anywhere, if he does just turn up and you have some sort of notice then go out and when he rings tell him to meet you where you are
If he suddenly turns up at your door delay opening it until you are all ready to leave and just walk out the door shutting it behind you . Um I'm presuming he doesn't have a key
Good luck

CogitoErgoSometimes Fri 28-Mar-14 09:26:09

"If he's being sensible I don't see why not tbh. "

That sounds like too big an 'if' to work with. OTOH the man you are describing is impulsive, manipulative, bullying etc and you are anticipating trouble ahead. In the next breath you use words like sensible. Please understand that this is now a matter of control. You should be fully in control of your life and you do not have to compromise that for anyone... regardless of history or their genetic link to your children.

OhBabyLilyMunster Fri 28-Mar-14 09:29:46

Did you have a previous thread when you were in the process of leaving OP?

lavenderhoney Fri 28-Mar-14 16:43:42

I did have a thread before but I had it deleted.

He sends me emails calling me love, xxx etc and I hate it. I don't respond and am extremely frosty on email and Skype. I have no idea why he is in denial - I left nearly 3 months ago now. I'm going to say something when he calls this weekend.

I don't know what he is going to do. I know he will be vile and call me lots of names though. And be as nasty as possible.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Fri 28-Mar-14 17:18:12

Realistically, even if he won't admit it, H must be dissatisfied with the marriage. He is aware that you are unhappy but makes out he thinks everything is fine.

Normally I'd say choose a time when the two of you are sober and you will have some uninterrupted time. You have to be very careful when you commit anything to paper.

Say that this marriage has not worked for a long time. You have struggled but no longer believe it can be fixed. Divorce is the only alternative. Don't list his failures and inadequacies. You only want to talk about how to organize a divorce. Your DCs' needs have to be addressed but you hope to minimize contact with lawyers and the courts.

It may be predictable from what you have said that his first response will be that of anger. He might try to talk you out of it, tell you that you are wrong and declare outrage you would do this to him to the DCs.

You do not have to defend your decision lavender.

If he calls you, you are not engaging in a discussion about fault. Ignore any provocative statements he makes. Hear him out. Summarize your understanding of his feelings.

He needs time to accept the situation and you will give him all the time he needs. Emphasise you will be fair and you are willing to work out a reasonable agreement with him.

lavenderhoney Fri 28-Mar-14 17:46:01

He is a few hours ahead re time zones so neither of us would be anything but sober.

I'm going it have to do it. Its ridiculous dragging on like this. For him and me. I can't bear to wait til I have to meet him in the summer when he is off and do it then.

indigo18 Fri 28-Mar-14 18:12:21

Would it be an idea for you to put the Dcs passports somewhere safe? Might he try to take them back with him to force you to join him?

Realitybitesyourbum Fri 28-Mar-14 18:22:40

you dont have to think is an email fair. has he treated you fairly? does he treat you fairly? do what you have to do in the way that suits you best and how you can cope best. if that is in an email, then you do what is best for you. you do not need to factor his feelings into this at all. does he consider your?

lavenderhoney Fri 28-Mar-14 21:01:20

Reality, you are right, but I think I'd rather do it verbally. I'm just going to say broadly what donkeys outlined below. Thank you, donkeyssmile

Dc passports have been in a safe location since I arrived.

I'm not really doing so well. My chest was very tight this morning, stomach cramps etc. I'm dreading it, but it must be done. Before I waver as I've been away from him so long and forget how awful he has been. It would be so easy to chicken out and leave it. But I want to move on, and know I'll never have to get into bed with him ever again. I feel such a fool. I wish I'd never married him or even dated him. But then I wouldn't have the dc.

A friend of mine has suggested we try again. But I don't want to. And another friend who has been fabulously supportive has ducked out, after months of being great. I think they are worried I'll regret it and blame themsad

Thingsthatmakeyougohmmmm Fri 28-Mar-14 21:14:48

OP, I haven't got any practical advice, but I wanted to add my support. I remember your original thread, and I was fairly new to the relationships board then, and remember feeling really worried about you, and willing your plans to get back to the UK to work out. I was so glad to see this update, and to see you commenting on other peoples threads. Good luck with telling him. The hard work is not all done, but you are well on the right road.

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