Marital Relationship after children

[Ayla]

Just a quickie, do men have a midlife crisis earlier these days? ie 30's. I'm getting the 'I don't love you anymore ,not sure what I want for the future' thing at present. Why? Do you have ANY commitment? Aaaaaarrrgggghhhh ( how v. Bridget Jones)

[Kia]

Ayla, check out his friends and see if one of them has a new girlfriend, or a bit on the side, or gone off round the world etc. 'all my friends have got one...'! One of the men in my office is having a crisis because his next birthday is 40. His wife confided in me that he is having serious problems coming to terms with it. I suppose some might say at least he's talking to you about it, most men I know couldn't verbalise those kind of thoughts if their lives depended upon it! Hence the amount of sad gits I know who are single and likely to stay that way!!

[Lisav]

How awful to say that he doesn't love you anymore! What a git! Do men have no feelings at all? My man is 35 and has never had a midlife crisis, which I think is just an excuse to behave badly anyway. Try going out yourself and leaving him to babysit, get a new hobby and new friends. Once he sees you doing things on your own, i.e. having a life without him, he will soon change his mind! Men just need a good kick up the A sometimes!

[Eulalia]

Ayla - how awful! How long have you been together? Could be 7 year itch or 10 years or whatever it is. I had a break from my partner after about 5 years - I went away and worked for a month. Of course that was pre-motherhood. It was more for my benefit than his as he didn't want me to go. If you can't manage this length of time then you could have a holiday without him or take up a hobby. I don't think that people have mid-life crises as such - it usually means that things are getting a bit stale. In this day and age people can live till their 80s so worrying about being old in your 30s is a little premature! And all this business about being 40 I find a real bore - it is only a number - why are we so obsessed with age anyway?

[Ayla]

Thankyou for the replies its so wierd, you wonder who is out there. can't type much now as 15/12 old daughter is helping me ! but basically hes just announced he had an affair. if its never happened to u believe me u don't react how u think u would. but what now, theres a little girl who doesn't deserve this from her parents. This is so not him I just can't believe it. Must go but is there anyone who has been thru similar ????

[Adelaide]

I haven't been through it and hope I never will - but my mother did. I cannot believe how raw I still feel thinking about it now over 20 years on. I was 11/12 and the only advice I can give you is pretty hard I'm afraid. Please, please, please try to leave your daughter out of it as much as possible - my mother leaned on me terribly and confided things about my father that I would rather never ever ever have known. They ended up staying together (celebrated 40 years last year) but while I can't blame my mother for confiding in me (who else could she) I still feel I was far too young to take on such responsibility. I really hope you get through this - it's not going to be easy either way. Don't rush any decisions, these things can take ages to sort themselves out once the crying and the shouting are over.

[Kia]

My advice is to stay calm and work out what you want. Do you want him, if so fight and be as dirty as it takes. If you decide once is once too often, then make a clean break. I know its very difficult when you've got kids, but think about making him move out for a time to see what he's actually going to be missing 'perhaps you need space darling'. Then invite him back but on your terms. No girlfriend is going to wash his pants for him, and in my experience 'the other woman' is usually horrified to be faced with lover-boy on the doorstep with his overnight case! Sorry to sound hard, but bin there worn the t-shirt, written the novel!

[Ric]

You have had messages talking about, men cant relate to their son, or are not prepared for reality of it. Thats me! So how about some good advice for a husband who wants to relate but finds himself overwhelmed. My son was born 11 days ago, my wife is coping well. But I cant sleep, my mind seems permanently full of fears.its as though the child is an alien inserted into the family. I assume the problem is that my wife knows how to cope with children brought up to do so, [shes from a big family]Ive had no dealings with children. There is a significant age gap between us [15 years]and we have only been married 3 years. so I suppose Im still stuck in my ways as it were. Frankly Im appalled at myself, but I cant seem to break the cycle. I want to be the husband she needs, but Im panicky and scared. Your sincere help is requested. thankyou.

[Jj]

Hi Ric, My husband was like that the first couple of weeks. I asked him what to do and he said just to throw yourself in there and do whatever you can.. change nappies, hold the baby, wash the baby and anything else. In a day or two you'll be too tired to be overwhelmed. Seriously, it'll get better and the fact that you're worried about it means you'll probably do well.

He might post tonight, so check back later. Good luck!

[Mooma]

Dear Ric - don't make the mistake of thinking that all women take to parenthood like a duck to water, and all men flounder. When I had my first child, she was a planned, much-wanted baby, I grew up in a large family, practically brought up my little brother and you would think I would have no problems. However, I foung the whole experience confusing, exhausting, emotionally draining, and frankly could not believe I had entered such a state freely and with my eyes open!
The best way to become attached to your son is to get to know him. Become involved in his daily care and don't be put off if you feel clumsy, ham-fisted or terrified of his tiny size - most parents do. You sound like such a caring person and seem horrified at the way you seem sidelined in this new family set-up, but you are the only one who can change the situation. There have been lots of discussions about parenting on these boards, so have a look and you will see that many fathers take time to adjust to fatherhood. I hope Tom, our regular contributor to debates about the father's role, will have some words of wisdom from a man's perspective. Good luck!

[Heleen]

Dear Ric, First of all I admire your honesty and willingness to discuss your feelings. Most men feel the way you do, since the birth of a baby is one of the most overwhelming experiences ever to encounter, but not many are able to discuss or even just tell how they feel. So keep talking about it with you wife to make sure that these feelings don't start leading a life of their own.
My boyfriend felt very inadequate in the beginning. The breastfeeding which makes the mother so close to the baby, makes the men feel like they aren't part of what is going on. Also your wife has carried the baby for months and feels she already knows who it is, which is different for you.
The fact that you are worried about how to relate to the new arrival, shows that you are going to be a splendid father since it is a sign that you care very much.
I found the most exhausting part of having a baby all these completely new emotions that are so overwhelming that sometimes you do not know how to feel.
Good luck!!

[Tom]

Hey Ric - go to our site for dads - it is the perfect compliment to mumsnet!

Click here for Fathers Direct

Tom Beardshaw

[Azzie]

Ric,

Don't be too hard on yourself - 11 days is a very short time to adjust to something that has turned your life upside-down! Your wife has lived with this baby as a physical reality for several months now, whereas if you're anything like my husband it all seemed a bit unreal until the baby was actually born.

Jj's husband is right - just do whatever you can and gradually it will come right. Make a special time that is yours with your baby - bathtime has always been my husband's domain, right from when we brought our first child home from the hospital. The novelty of a new baby soon wore of for me a little as tiredness kicked in over the first few weeks and I found I was glad to let him take over. And remember that, even if your wife is breastfeeding and you can't help with that, you are vitally important to support and look after her. She's going to be very very tired after a few weeks of night feeds, and you're the person who is going to make all the difference to her. Although my husband said he sometimes felt a bit of a spare part in the first few months, I never felt that. I don't know how I would have managed without. So hang in there - you care, and that means you'll be a great dad.

[Eulalia]

When I was going through hell trying to get my baby to feed my husband suggested a different position - and it worked! So an objective viewpoint can help. Also he was essential in passing things to me once baby was latched on and generally keeping me company and a million other things.

Ric - if you tell your wife just the things you wrote here she will appreciate that you care. It is not what people do it is what they try to do that is important. congrats on the new baby by the way!

[Willow2]

Ric, I knew sweet fa about being a mum until my son came along sixteen months ago. At first I was petrified (and at times I still am) - now friends who have newborns ask me for advice. What a weird world we live in! That doesn't mean I am a font of all wisdom, simply that you learn so much so quickly... but the only way to do so is to have a go. Hang back and you risk becoming more scared as your wife becomes more proficient. There is a rather cruel saying that capable women make incapable men, but I think it can apply (but not in a nasty way) to having kids in this instance. It's very easy for men to feel left out right at the beginning when all the baby wants to do is sleep and eat - particularly if the baby is being breast fed as the mother has much more hands on contact and so becomes more at ease with her child. The father sees this and thinks "oh, she is so much better at it than me, I'll leave her to it rather than mucking up"... but believe me, the only way you get any good is by having a go, and the longer you leave it the harder it becomes. Brand new babies are far hardier than brand new parents give them credit for,just try not to drop your son on his head and you will be fine! Sure you might be a bit cack handed initially (but we all were, I can't believe how long it used to take me to change a nappy!) but you'll soon have him chucking up over the shoulder of your brand new shirt in no time. So don't be scared. Just take a deep breath and jump. Your relationship with both your wife and child can only benefit.

[Bugsy]

Hi Ric, I think that newborn babies are sometimes like aliens. You don't know them and yet they have invaded your home and laid claim to your other half. I think you'll find that as you get to know the alien that landed in your home you'll find it becomes more loveable and less of a stranger. I was shocked by how much I resented the initial intrusion of our son into our calm, ordered lives, even though he was a much wanted baby. Now, I can't imagine life without him and love him with such a passion it really hurts if I have to work away from home for even 2 days.
Give yourself time and get involved. Don't be frightened, your partner and baby need you now more than ever before.
Good luck

[Copper]

Ric
my husband was you 11 years ago. Spend as much time as you can with your baby, do things for him even if you don't think you do them as well as your wife - you never will if you don't start. The more you hold/cuddle/look after him, the more at ease you will be with each other. Don't let your wife put you off - if you are finding her expertise oppressive, tell her so and tell her that it's not helpful if she intervenes all the time. How about sending her off for a bit of sleep, and just holding him in that time, really looking at him -if you hold him at chest level, you will be able to look at each other.

As for all the worries - they are absolutely overwhelming at first (especially combined with diturbed sleep), but eventually they subside to a background awareness that here is someone who really needs you - and who will think the world of you. There really are compensations!

[Desperate]

I've changed my nickname because i'm terribly ashamed of this. last weekend I went out with some girl friends and got incredibly drunk. I chatted up this guy, snogged him and came within a whisker of having sex with him. i've done this before too, i've snogged a guy whilst drunk. I feel so ashamed and so guilty. my partner is so loving and kind, it would break him if he knew. I don't know why i am doing this, i love him to bits I really do. I can't stop crying about it and i'm terrified that it might happen again.
why am i putting my relationship at such a risk?
Constructive advice needed please.

[Cindyanne]

Hi Desperate i just happened to read your posting this afternoon and wanted to offer a shoulder, as i am in a similar sort of situation. Perhaps we can have a discussion about it sometime if you are interested. That would be nice.

[Chanelno5]

Desperate - I really feel for you, you sound like you are really suffering and very confused. To me, it sounds as though you have got a very low self-esteem at the moment, and these other men have helped to temporarily boost it for a while and also to offer you the chance to feel sexy and desirable again.

When you have been married or in a long-term relationship, especially after you have had children, you can feel as though you are being taken for granted and stuck in a rut, which makes yearn for the 'buzz of excitement' that you felt when you first met. Does this sound right, or have I read your situation totally wrong? I really feel that you have not meant to hurt anyone, and do love your dp really, but that you are just not very happy with yourself.

Please let me know, as I would like to help, or atleast offer some support.

[Janus]

I used to get myself in similar situations in that I used to let myself be chatted up and then have to make the most ridiculous excuses for it not going any further than chatting and this was always when I had way too much to drink. I was and am blissfully happy with my current partner but it has happened a couple of times even with him, more in the past now. I don't have low self-esteem and really can't tell you why I let it happen other than it was ALWAYS when I was blind drunk. Luckily, I was never unfaithful but even remembering the terrible flirting the next day made me feel guilty as hell.
My best way of dealing with this now is 1. I don't go out so much! and 2. I really watch how much I am drinking if in that kind of setting and this is really important and the best way of controlling things, for me anyway.
Sorry, I'm not really offering you a reason for why this happens but just wanted you to know that it does happen to other people too. Hope this helps??

[Pupuce]

Hi Deseperate,

It does sound very confusing... I will offer the following questions which may be completely off the mark... None of them are meant to be judgemental and you don't need to answer them on Mumsnet.

1. Is your husband too nice to you ? Are you trying to make him jaleous or get into an argument which might spark some passion/debate ? Presumably he might find out.
2. Why do you need to drink so much ? Can you not replace some of the alcohol with juices ?
3. Are you trying to prove something to yourself ? Do you still feel sexy (etc) ?

These were just ideas... good luck !

[Desperate]

Thanks for all your help and advice. I'd love to talk CindyAnn, will you post your email on here? I want to remain anonymous on this posting if no-one minds.
To answer all of your questions, yes my husband is too nice, if anyone can be too nice that is. There isn't much passion in the relationship and we both need to be drunk before we let our inhibitions go, has anyone been embarrassed about even undressing in front of their husbands before? there is lots of cuddling but no real passion. we've spoken about it before, had arguments etc, and things will be ok for a month or so and then things will be back to normal again. I had no other partners before my current one and i guess I am amazed when men respond to me and flirt back with me. and I am too drunk to say no to anything else. but that shouldn't be an excuse i know.
I feel so bad about this and miserable. Everyone loves my partner, i would be ostracised if this ever got out. i am paranoid that he will find out and leave me and i just can't stop crying.
i want to know why i feel like this and what i can do about it. I do love him, i really do and I really don't want to hurt him. I feel like such a slut, especially as it's happened before.

[Ashamed]

Desperate... you have no idea how familiar your problem sound to me... but I went further and I thought I should share my experience.

I have also changed my nickname for this posting as I am ashamed of what I did and the reason I'll share it with you so is to hopefully be of some help to you. I have NEVER told anyone this....
1 year before I got married (I had been with my future husband for 5 years already) a colleague of mine started flirting with me. He was cute, very smart and very attentive to me... how could I resist ? I had never known anyone but my husband. Needless to say it didn't take months to persuade me to have an affair. While I'll take all the blame for having the affair I had to be pushed but I gladly jumped ! The affair lasted over a year and was still going on when I got married. Luckily the "lover" did not come to my wedding.
I had to leave my employer (but I had another good job waiting for me) and the town I was living in to be able to leave him. I wanted to stop the relationship he wanted to continue it.

Today I feel deeply embarassed, I refuse to speak to the lover in question (he sometimes calls and I just hang up, I have told him to leave me alone but he still manages to call me twice a year, which upsets me deeply every time). I regret it like you wouldn't believe it...
I had the affair because whilst I really loved my husband, there was no passion and this man = passion.
Like you, my husband is adored by everyone and if I told a soul I think people would just think "how stupid"... so I have never told anyone. I almost let it out when I went to see a therapist because I was deeply unhappy at work... but even then I said nothing.
It has taught me a lesson... no one is as good as my husband is, even if we don't have the passion.
There isn't a day when I don't think of that deception, I feel very guilty. Sometimes I wish the guilt and the memories would just disappear but on the other hand the memory of it makes me work harder at my marriage and helps remind me that no other man is as good. And I truly mean that.
I sometimes am tempted to tell my husband because he is such an understanding man... but what I don't think I could forgive (and he probably cpuld not either) is the fact that whilst we were getting married I had a lover. To this day I can't believe how stupid I was. I TRULY regret the whole thing and have very (probably way too) negative feelings of this man, hence I do not want to have anything more to do with him.

Believe it or not he calls me at home ! 2 years ago, my husband answered the phone (they know each other but not well) and I was forced to speak to him as I didn't want to raise any suspicion... he called 2 weeks ago but luckily I picked up and I said "wrong number".... but you should have seen my face and my heart was beating so hard.... It took me a while to come down but my husband saw nothing.

[Desperate]

Hello Ashamed, your story sounds like my worst nightmare! I am so afraid that this is what might happen to me. How do you get on with your husband now? Is there any passion in your relationship now? How do you stop yourself from getting that tempted any more. I thought I regretted it enough the first time, and that was just a kiss, but now i have done it again and have gone much further. how can i make sure that it NEVER happens again?
I feel so unhappy right now, so confused. l do love my husband, he has supported me through some tough times, he is always loving and caring and he is just the most doting dad! but i feel that there is something missing, and we have discussed the lack of passion like i said, but i feel that we just go round in circles. he has a low sex drive and is older than me. but that's all. It isn't enough to throw away the relationship and i feel deeply ashamed of my behaviour, plus all the risks of being found out. is there something wrong with me sexually? why isn't my husband enough?

thanks for your reply Ashamed, please let me know that there is light at the end of the tunnel! And i really hope that things work out for you, I feel for you so much.

[Ashamed]

My husband still doesn't know. We get on very well now though when we are a bit tired we do get the odd fight. The passion is there when we both had a glass (or 2!) of wine but we are never drunk.

I don't know what to tell you except that I did get it out of my system by sleeping with this man. I would never do this again (and I am really convinced of this because I have met another man and I really fought it... I am not interested to go down this road again!).
I would not recommend sleeping with any of these men... and in hindsight I should have been wiser ! This other man by the way was more sexually aware but it ended up really turning me off.
I don't know if I should say this but the very few times when my husband and I have seen an erotic movie on tele (not in the UK!)... it did make us a lot more passionate.... but I don't dare rent them I have to admit.