Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.
ZOMBIE THREAD ALERT: This thread hasn't been posted on for a while.
DP to do DVPP - what does this mean for me / my DC?(61 Posts)
Hi, name changed,
My DP had been going through the court system to regain contact with his DC. He and his ex argued and threw things at each other etc. it was an unhealthy relationship. After they split SS were involved due to something one of the DC said, but they did an assessment and were satisfied there was, and never had been any risk to DC from DP. Contact never was reinstated, and this is when he began to fight through the court system. There was also one incident of the police being called after they broke up due to an argument over the phone, again, nothing came of it.
He has never been charged with or found guilty of DV.
After over a year of going through the legal process his ex submitted a statement detailing the abuse she allegedly suffered at his hands, a statement which is inconsitebt with what she told police at the time, SS at the time, CAFCASS, etc. everyone has had a different story.
It has nonetheless been decided that he ought to attend a DVPP. He has agreed because he wants to see the DC. He had a meeting with the lady from the DVPP last week and she asked if he was in a relationship, he replied that he is and she said that she would have to contact me. He has given her my details and I'm waiting to hear from her.
Does anyone know what this means for me? What about my DC? I have DC, and DP doesn't live with us. DC adore him and are very close to him, and he adores them too. DP has never treated me as anything other than an equal, is respectful of me and treats me with kindness and love. My previous partner was abusive, and looking back the signs were there from the start, jealously, possessiveness, etc. DP is nothing like that, and despite the fact that many of you will say I should leave him, I believe him when he tells me that he is not an abusive man.
I don't have anything useful to advise, but I do know that if you were a friend of mine I would be telling you to be very careful. I couldn't get involved with somebody with all that baggage/drama/red flaggage when I have DCs.
I would walk away as of now from him and all this baggage.
You do not need such complications and nor do your children. Put yourselves first and for a change.
How long have you been together?. How much do you really know about this man and his circumstances now?. Is what you have heard particularly in your first paragraph all first hand information that you have learnt yourself or primarily based on what he has told you?.
I would talk to Womens Aid about the possibility of you now doing their Freedom Programme as this is designed for women who have previously been in abusive relationships.
You do not want to ever run the risk of escaping from say one grade 9 abusive man to go into yet another relationship with a person who is also at heart abusive. It sounds to me also like your boundaries on relationships have been well messed up by your previous relationship and issues from that have not been resolved at all (hence the Freedom Programme suggestion).
Such perpetrator programmes do not have much success in terms of actual outcomes; that is also to be borne in mind by you. What can a short course really do here?.
Why do you believe him?
I have to say if SS deemed my DP unfit to be around his own dc, he certainly would not be around mine.
But I have literally zero tolerance or minimisation stuff going on.
SS didn't deem him unfit to be around his DC. SS closed he case immediately and said they had no concerns about him at all, but his ex refusing him contact wasn't a matter for them to deal with and he would have to go to family court.
I don't see him as having a lot of baggage. He has DC and he just wants to see them.
I've known him my whole life, and what I know is what he has said, plus I've seen the reports, statements etc from his ex, CAFCASS etc.
The police and SS didn't think any abuse occurred. The only person who is saying there was abuse is his ex. And this wasn't mentioned for a long time after they split, a long time during which they got along perfectly well and he had a really good relationship with his kids.
We have been together 9 months.
If you were seeing my ex now he would :
Be wonderful to you and attentive and fun with your DC,
tell you his ex-wife was mad and very controlling and had stopped him from seeing his DC for 2 years
tell you SS had been involved at the beginning of our separation due to something the DC said at school and the case is closed now as there was nothing to answer.
tell you he is having to go through the courts to see his DC And Cafcass, solicitor, uncle Tom Cobly etc etc are all supporting him because he is a hard done by victim of an awful woman who used him to have children, ruined him financially and is continuing her abuse via the children who he loves and misses with all his heart.
He would be convincing, he would be lovely and he would be lying.
be very careful
Nine months is no time at all in relationship terms. The fact that you have known him your whole life is irrelevant; what is more relevant here is that you have previously been in an abusive relationship and are now with someone who is going to be sent on a DVPP course. That speaks volumes regarding your boundaries in relationships.
I would keep a safe distance, the fact that someone has determined he is suitable to actually go on such a course in the first place should be a red flag in itself.
Oh, and my ex also went on a DVPP course...to "tick all the boxes"...
Aside from that as your DP is not resident with you and you have no concerns it will mean nothing for you or your children that he attends the course. the course leaders will not share with you what he says or with him what you say. they will use the information to inform their programme and challenge him as appropriate.
I'm sorry about your situation foolonthehill, I know abusive men are very manipulative, my ex is telling anyone who will listen that I'm an evil heartless cow Etc etc etc. and they all believe him.
I was worried that the people from the DVPP would involve social services as standard, because he's on the programme and I have kids.
Obviously if they assess during the programme that he is a risk then I am fully supportive of them involving SS and he would be removed from our lives immediately. If ever I feel that he has overstepped a boundary with us he will be gone. My children's safety is my primary concern, which is why I left my ex, as I felt the example he set them was damaging and that his moods were damaging too.
Sounds like you're going from the frying pan to the fire.
He will not have been ordered to do a Dvpp unless the courts considered him to be a perpetrator. Has there been a Fact Finding hearing ? Have you been in the court room at every hearing ? Have you been at every meeting with social services ? Social services closing the case means nothing. My Ex has a proven history of DV, including against the children. Social services were involved initially. But because I was able to be a protective parent and was going through the court system to sort contact, social services 'closed' the case. It was always clear though that they knew DV had occured.
As for OW, she refused to engage with the program. She refused to believe what he was capable of.
Similar story as foolonthehill for me. I'm sure my XP would be charming and very credible if you'd talk to him now. Hell, a lot of professionals fell for his 'poor me'.
SS and police were involved for the last half year of our relationship and the child protection reports encourage contact with the children until well after the police took him out of the house. Because SS wouldn't hear my story and because I wasn't ready to talk about everything. Only now, almost a year and a half on, do CAFCASS have the full picture and is he being sent on a DVPP as well.
As a victim of DV you know how hard it is to talk, so please don't dismiss his X's claims on the basis that they were not in earlier papers. There could be loads of reasons for that. Men don't get send to DVPP on just the word of their X. It takes a court process with hearings of facts and findings by the judge.
And like monetbyhimself, SS closed the case as soon as possible after he was taken out of the house. They look at who the children are staying with and if that parent is considered safe, they are taken of any protection plans. Closing the case said nothing about how they see him.
Sorry, this is a dim question, I presumed DVPP were for men who were convicted of violence against their partner? Can you actually be sent on one when its a case of he says, she says?
OP, inconsistencies in a story are actually an indication that someone is telling the truth. (Although clearly not proof by themselves!)
Real life is messy, and we remember things out of order, and there are things we might consider to have different significance from day to day/week to week.
When someone is lying they are more likely to make up a story to start with and stick to it.
My abusive ex will probably tell the same lies about me.
Please look at the Freedom Programme - you can do it online, at your own pace Here
tell him that during this programme you need to keep distance and see him less.
a good programme will really challenge him and his views and may make him feel very angry....
if he is truly as you say he is he will also accept keeping his distance while on the course and reviewing after.
ask the dvpp person what the course invovles etc.
give them your views too.
a therapy that really challenges someone to change their way fo thinking may also brinbg to teh fore any underlying "issues".
it hink you should step back, let him do this course, maybe continue to see him on your own without the kids if you so wish. see what he comes out of the course with...if he continues to be angry with his ex then he has a problem.
if he willing to do whatever it takes to see his kids and approaches with a open mind...hmmm .
(my ex went on this type of course and came out with a lot of arrogance: "well i am a model of good behaviour! i never really beat you up! some people on that course really beat up their women..." he really didnt learn much about all forms of abuse... or take any responsibility for eg smashing things in front of children (I had provoked him, so he was justified) pushing and shoving (what's wrong with that? at least i didnt really harm you" ..he came out saying everything he had done was totally justified.)
"He and his ex argued and threw things at each other etc" so what has he learned form this? what will he learn from the course?
For one, you cannot be sent on one as such. DVPP have intake assessments that establish if the guy is actually willing to change (at least in words, obviously...) and will refuse men who are uncooperative. Secondly, a fact finding hearing in a family court case is different from criminal proceedings. People don't get charged or convicted in family law cases. What happens are finding of fact hearings based on balance of probabilities (or a similar term): the judge hears both parties being cross-examined and decides who he thinks is more credible, based on their testimony and other evidence (SS papers, professional assessments). The more serious the allegation, the more proof the judge will need to make a finding. But it is not about 'proof beyond reasonable doubt' that the person did it (say 99% certainty), but rather 51%.
Oops, massive cross post. My post was in response to strawberrykisses.
He's not angry at his ex. He says he understands why she left him, that the relationship bought out the worst in both of them, and that losing the woman he loved and his DC brought home to him that he needed to examine himself and how he reacted to and coped with various things in his life. It was after this that he sought counselling, anger management etc.
He has learned that screaming at one another is not constructive, that the best way to deal with conflict is to take time apart to calm down and think and then to have a proper conversation when everyone is calm. He has learned that his behaviour was unacceptable and that he has to take responsibility for the consequences of his actions.
I don't know what he will learn from the course.
MyPetLizard in response to the title of this thread, the DVPP means that you should step back from him until he has done the work he needs to do and comes back to you. If he has already done counselling and anger management, he should be able to understand why you cannot be with him whilst he's going through this process.
Carry on with your life with your children, and see what he brings with him when the DVPP is finished.
So anger management - that would suggest he was not in control of his temper?
I think he has red flags all over him - a veritable bunting. I would run for the hills if I were you. You won't though - you will justify his behaviour and minimize it. Until the cracks start to show.
Remember long time ago after being in rs for while my lovely bf slipped aut admitting putting his hands around his ex gf neck in argument
Two years in line he did it to me in argument
Because I've dare to have different opinions
ok so if he has learned and changed then he can be a model student on the course even mentor and tell the cohorts what he has already learned ...
he has been ordered to do it as condition, so he should go off and do it.
if there are no worries concerns then any interview or assessment your side from ss will just be formality.
so what does it mean for you and dc - nothing, in that case... (if something were to happen in future tho then obviousy it would be on record)
nonetheless...it could bring up feelings of anger? so let him go thru this.
if he comes back from each session horrified at what others recount, horrified that he ever let things get so bad with his ex - then you can make your own conclusion.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.