I just feel so stupid. (Toxic MIL related)

[MommyBird]

I'm here again.

I have posted a fair few times about my MIL.
We have been NC for about 3 months. We explained we wanted somesort of closure from her. An apology, accept responserbility...nothing.

DH and I was getting married in December, however we've had a re-think and we have booked a date in April
we was in two minds wheather to invite her or not. We decided against it but we both wanted the chance for MIL to build some bridges so we gave her a 'nudge.' stupid i know.

So after NC for 3 months, we texted and told her about the date, that we was hoping by then she would of understood our reasons etc...she then asked what 'we' had done wrong and she wanted us to explain (this is the 2nd time now, we have explained and still no apology!) so DH sent a long heartfelt message about her actions, how she allways makes us feel guilty, she lets DD1 down (has only met DD2 twice!). and lots of other things...no reply...an hour later she asks 'what happends now'...completley ingored the previous message.

We was both pretty angry so we left it.
She messaged yesterday saying we had told her about the wedding and she asked what happens now and we havn't replied.

She has again, completley ignored our message. Any nornal person would say sorry? Maybe say she hadn't realised what she waa dpin? Things will change from now on? But nothing. Completley fobbed us off

Its been 3 months. If we didnt text her about the wedding DH has said she wouldnt of bothered to message us at all and the 'fued' would go on for months.
Im shocked at the lack of human emotion from her. She has made no effort, we messaged her and without her doing anything she expects things to go back to normal. I feel so utterly stupid for thinking again, she would change.

Do we reply to her message? Is there a point? She never listens. Shall we just ignore? I've told DH that i have washed my hands off her, never again. I actually feel ready for NC because we have tried, hell will freeze over before i beg for an apology.

[MommyBird]

doin and of.

I have been up since 6am with DD2 who is teething!

[MommyBird]

**doing

sorry!

[Bambamb]

Reply back to her asking what does she think should happen now?
Only reply with one line questions, get her to think about it.

She sounds a nightmare, I feel for you. I guess it's up to you DP as to how much effort he wants to make and if he feels its worth it.

[qazxc]

Well you maybe could text saying "you need to address what was said in previous message for us to move forward" but she does sound like she is burying her head in the sand so i don't know how much good it will do. maybe it would offer you and DP the peace of mind that you have tried everything.

[GideonKipper]

Is it not possible to speak to eachother? I don't know the back story but it sounds like you're trying to sort out a whole load of problems and resentment via the medium of text message which is never going to be easy.

[MommyBird]

We was thinking about putting along the lines of 'nothing will happen. you have again, completley ignored the previous message. you havn't bothered to apoligies, to build bridges or try to make the effort to fix things. we have tried again, and nothing. so thats what will happen'

I feel so angry with myself. all i want is DH to see his mom and she isn't bothered!
I have never hated anyone in my life, but she is cruel and shows basic lack of human emotion. she is getting very sodding close!

[MommyBird]

I'd love to have all this out in person but she's a flouncer. she'll flounce off or start crying.
Imagine trying to talk to a 16 year old..

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Ignore any further communications from her and maintain no contact properly this time around.

Now you have to start again. Not surprised you feel stupid for thinking she would actually change but really such at heart dysfunctional people do not. Its a harsh realisation for you (and I think you come from a family unit that is itself emotionally healthy so to come across someone like his mother is very hard indeed). People generally want to give family second chances but this only works in emotionally healthy families where all parties are reasonable and accept fault. His mother has never done this.

In your particular case re his mother a firm boundary has to be laid down by yourselves now.

The mistake here was to communicate with her at all. No contact means precisely that. She was not going to change after three months of no contact was she, she won't change after 30 months of no contact. Any communications give her a way back in and she will use that against you. She is NEVER going to apologise or accept any responsibility for her actions because she feels she has done nothing wrong in the first place.

You are and never have dealt with someone here who is either emotionally healthy or infact reasonable.

Use the "we took you to Stately Homes" thread on here as well, they know all too well what this is like.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"I feel so angry with myself. all i want is DH to see his mom and she isn't bothered!
I have never hated anyone in my life, but she is cruel and shows basic lack of human emotion".

What you want and what you have here are two very different things.

Why though do you want DH to see his mum at all when she is behaving like this towards you both?. That is something you need to ask your own self here (perhaps out of societal convention). Not all families are emotionally healthy unfortunately and his birth family certainly is not.

It is not your fault his mother is cruel, you did not make her that way. That damage was done back in her own childhood, btw do you know anything at all about that?.

[MommyBird]

Thank you, Attila you have allways given sound advice.

I am done now and i mean it.
We have tried so many times, its pointless.
I give up. Giving her this 'last chance' has been just that, she's blown it.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I think her emotional maturity stopped at around six years of age, not sixteen.

If she is narcissistic it is not possible to have a relationship with such a person.

[Fluffycloudland77]

Don't have her at the wedding, you don't want the memories tainted by her presence.

I didn't have my parents at my wedding.

[MommyBird]

I can't understand her which is why i think we'll give her another chance..she cant mean it.
To hear her talk she loves our girls so much and she would do anything to see them..apart from actually making the effort.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"I can't understand her which is why i think we'll give her another chance..she cant mean it.
To hear her talk she loves our girls so much and she would do anything to see them..apart from actually making the effort".

NO!!!. Why the change of heart now?. Doing that just gives her a further opportunity to hurt you as parents again. How many more times do you want her to do this to you, they are masters of "come closer so I can hurt you again".

No, she does not love your girls either and exposing MIL to them will do its own lot of damage. She has never made an effort re them and is only interested in her own self. You would not tolerate any of what has happened here from a friend, why is MIL supposedly so different?.

[zippey]

Well she isn't a mind reader so probably doesn't know that you want an apology. What about saying to answer your question, you would like her to acknowledge the previous letter and to apologise for the nasty things she has done or said.

I'm sure what the background to this is but there seems to be a history behind it and only you will know if going NC is the way forward. You shouldn't stop your DH from doing what he wants, but it'd be good to show a united fr

[MommyBird]

No i mean thats what ive been thinking for so long, i havn't got the energy for her anymore.

We have asked her for an apology, for some sort of closure and we can move on. but nothing.

There's so much back story :( its been going on 5 years now. its just shocking. NC is not what we wanted at all but i can't handle her anymore (had PND with DD1!)

ive said to DH he can see her asmuch as he wants but he's said she won't want to see him unless he has the girls

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

You had me concerned there!. I can see why you have thought that however, you want to be seen as both nice and reasonable. Unfortunately inherently dysfunctional families like your DHs mother's never play by the "normal" rules governing familial relations.

To be honest exposing your girls to her will give them no end of problems. Your MIL also seems re them to equate money with love IIRC. They make for being awful grandparents.

A good rule of thumb here is that if the relative in question is too difficult for you to deal with he/she is far too difficult for your vulnerable and defenceless children.

DH not seeing her will be no great loss to him in the long run either.

[Meerka]

It sounds like you and DH are pretty much in agreement here.

Do think that when the time comes to NC with someone, then actually you have to grieve them. Not the person they actually are, but the person that you want them to be and they should be - loving, reasonable parents / grandparents. You need time and to give yourself space for that sadness that comes when illusions are shattered and reality faced; when you realise that you long for a good relationship and it will never happen. I would say both your husband and yourself need that space in different ways.

If you do wish to give it one last chance then I'd go with bambamb's suggestion. Leave the ball in -her- court. Make her do the work. But really it sounds like a lost cause. As you say, for the sake of your own family the point comes when you have to save your energy. Also as attilla says, if she's too poisonous for you two, she's way too poisonous for your children. They don't have the defenses and adult observation you have.

[MommyBird]

She texted.
Saying that she cant believe the way we are treating her, she is his mother and she knew this would happen
from the start.
We then texted saying that all we want is for her to accept responserbility, say sorry but she keeps ignoring it..she then texted that responserbility works both ways, grow up and that she'll keep away and remember its what we wanted.

I cant believe the nerve. this coming from the woman who has made DD1 ill from smoking around her, lied, let our girls down, takes advantage is never greatful, shows no respect and told people i have an eating disorder!!
i can feel the rage in m stomache as im writing this. aftet everything we have done and forgiven her for. i am on the verge of tears!

[Meerka]

ok, then its clear that the writing is on the wall.

Nothing is going to change her and as many write here, the only thing you can change is your own actions.

Either do not reply at all, full stop, or (damn tempting but probably less dignified) reply "we wish no further contact with you. Further texts and other communications will be deleted unread".

And then fgs keep to it no matter what. Expect a lot of pressure from others that she tells distorted things to. Especially that you and your husband are preventing her seeing her granddaughter. But as attilla says, if she's too poisonous for you two, she's way too poisonous for a child who does not have the experience and ability to judge that an adult has.

It's hard to go NC. YOu'll be tempted. But you need to make a decision and keep to it or this destructive cycle will just keep on and on.

[MommyBird]

Im so angry.

Ive told DH that i am done. donedonedone with her and so are my girls.

He can see her/talk/text - whatever but i want nothing to do with her. She is his mom so i cant forbid a relationship with her no matter how much i would like too. He can seperate us from her.

I feel sick

[Jux]

MommyBird, she's always going to be like this. Nothing you, dh or your children can say or do will change that. Therefore, you will all keep on being hurt by her.

If your dh wants to see her (doesn't really sound like it) then just be ready to listen and comfort when he's let down and hurt by her again. That's all you can do.

[havingastress]

Do you have the same MIL as me?!

Honestly, sounds like the same toxic woman.

Incidentally, I haven't spoken at all to MIL for over 4 months now since she ruined our wedding (long story) and then proceeded to hurl a torrent of abuse at me over the phone (also think like a brattish 16 yr old having a tantrum!). We have also had no apology. No acknowledgement at all of her poor behaviour.

DH is actually seeing her today for the first time since then. I refused to go. I also refused to let him take DD who she has basically ignored since she was born, unless it suited her.

Not going to lie. I find it hard :( and I know it's going to get harder as DD gets older. Half of me feels like I'm denying her a relationship with her grandma. The other half of me then just knows that actually I'm stopping her having to deal with a nasty woman who would say god knows what about me behind my back (plus she has very very screwed morals)

A good rule of thumb here is that if the relative in question is too difficult for you to deal with he/she is far too difficult for your vulnerable and defenceless children

^^ THIS!! Well said Attila, exactly how I feel too.

Do not invite her to your wedding!!!

[MommyBird]

She has done that thing again...when shes really horrible...then all of a sudden she says something really nice and i think 'awh..maybe shes changed' then BAM! She does something bad.

shes said she wishes us all the happiness in the world and wants to see her grand daughters grow up but no sorry

im not being fooled for the millionth time again.
My girls arn't going near her.

DH has said he would like see her, which i understand but i feel like crap.
The amount of rubbish she has done. She has treated me like an oven, spread private medical infomation about me to people i dont know and has told people im bulimic yet he still wants to see her

i know she's his mom and i'll keep my mouth shut but i feel abit betrayed? If thats the right word.

[MommyBird]

And I think she's coming to the wedding