Drifting apart - It's about my sex life

[NaiveWoman]

I have slept with 2 men in my life, DH and a former boyfriend. Until recently I have never had an orgasm during sex. Not with DH, nor with the previous bf.
A combination of education/my own inhibitions stopped me from experimenting (on myself and with my partner) and neither partner was bothered by my lack of orgasms.
That is until a couple of years ago when I started to be a bit more bold. I realized I could give myself an orgasm when I am on the top. Then I started to direct DH so he learnt to give me pleasure with his hand. All good would you say?
Well since then, DH clearly is touching me because he feels he should, but he is also clearly 'bored' by it especially if I take a bit more time to warm up. So much so that, by the time I have had an orgasm, he has lost a lot of his erection :(
I am not sure what to do.... Our sex life has never been the 'wild passionate' type. Not even at the start. But I am feeling frustrated. I would like to experiment with DH. I would like to make it a better experience for both of us. But he is clearly not 'into it'. I feel like we are drifting apart and I have no idea how to bridge the gap.
What on earth can I do?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Your DH sounds rather lazy and lacking in imagination. Probably always been like that but you didn't realise because you didn't have much to compare. I'm sorry but, if he's not willing to participate, there's precious little you can do about it. Either endure a lifetime of disappointment, get a lot better at masturbation or end the relationship and start fresh.

[TheCrumpetQueen]

Have you actually spoken to him about this, op?

[Twinklestein]

Some guys actually like giving women pleasure, it turns them on. Your husband is apparently not one of them. Now you can orgasm it turns out he's quite selfish in bed... If he can't be arsed to take care of your pleasure why should you do it for him...?

[Twinklestein]

Is the drifting apart feeling just about sex or about other things too?

[NaiveWoman]

First I want to clarify something. I have name changed for that post but have been here for several years, well 9 of them, since I was pregnant with dc2.
Just after posting this thread, I've realized that, unusually, there are quite a few threads about that subject. But this wasn't intentional. This is a very much a real issue for me.

I am not after a wild and passionate love life. I know I have settled down for safe and reliable and not passionate and maybe unreliable. I can live with that. What am struggling atm is to live with a sex life with no orgasms or where it is only a duty to DH.

And yes, it has always been like this. It's just that we are drifting apart and it happens that the subject that 'separates' us is sex. I have changed, he hasn't.

Talking to DH .... is a really big issue. He doesn't do confrontations at all and any discussions where we might not agree or raise something that could potentially be come an issue is treated by him like a confrontation. In the years we've been together, I have learnt ways to give him the messages I need him to hear in a way he can listen to. So I have showed him what turns me on and what I like (and I really don't think we are talking about wild passion here, just a bit of fiddling). But the result hasn't been great. The message got there. He is doing it but with the great result I was hoping for.

[NaiveWoman]

The drifting apart is really our sex life. On all other fronts, we have actually managed to find a balance that wasn't there before.

A lot of hard work from both of us, and tears and listening and taking into each other needs to find a way of living that works for both of us.
So we have moved from nearly splitting up a few years ago to be quite contented now.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Marriages fail and couples drift apart for all kinds of reasons. Compromise is part and parcel but, when you discover something that is too important for compromise, you've got a real dilemma. I find your description of his aversion to confrontation frankly bizarre btw. This business of learning how to give him messages sounds like you're tip-toeing around him on a regular basis .... you actually sound frightened to speak your mind and that's not the sign of a healthy relationship.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

He's not taking into account your needs is he? Sounds like the tears and listening is very much your department while he gets to do all the talking...

[NaiveWoman]

Well actually he does very little of the talking. That's me who does that.
And he certainly did the biggest changes/effort to make our marriage work.
It really isn't an issue of tiptoeing around him. He has some communication issues which make sorting out any issue, let alone one about sex, difficult.

[TheCrumpetQueen]

He probably won't change op. you have and good for you. Look after yourself and your orgasms like he does. Maybe once you come, get off him. See how he likes it?

[Twinklestein]

I find it odd that you can have sex but not talk about it, but then that's maybe not uncommon.

I don't really see why he will take this as confrontation, it's just a normal conversation with give and take. If that's the case he will take anything you say as criticism of his sexual performance, which is tricky.

But from what you've said, it's not that you can't communicate what you would like him to do, he just that can't be arsed to do it.

What would happen if you said that his lack of enthusiasm was a passion killer & you'd rather not bother with sex at all? The possibility of no sex might jolt him into action. Not that I believe it will work tbh...

[NaiveWoman]

I wouldn't say that he can't be arsed to do it. He does take the time to pleasure me but it also puts him off :(

And yes any direct comments about it will be taken as a criticism.

[Twinklestein]

He does it, but he's just not that into it... that's what I meant by can't be arsed...

If someone's going to do something half-heartedly I'd rather they didn't do it all...

I'm surprised that giving you pleasure doesn't give him more pleasure, but maybe he's just used to having sex his way...

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Someone who takes it as a personal attack when their partner wants to talk about something serious and important to them - especially something like sex - sounds rather selfish and immature.

[something2say]

Why don't you try having hold of him while he fiddles with you? Both of you getting off on the other at the same time? Or / and really go to town on him after you've got yours? Teach him that pleasures works both ways. And make it passionate, don't sell short there, it's not worth it.

Glad one problem was sorted anyway... Now onto the next...

[MyPantsAreGreen]

My husband is just the same. Says he wants to pleasure me but clearly gets bored, his hand gets 'tired' and he loses his erection. He calls me frigid as I have only orgasmed with him twice in 11 years but I can come very quickly on my own! Men are such selfish bastards.

[GiveMeSomeSpace]

If you think men are such selfish bastards, then accept it and stick with what you have.

If, on the other hand, you question the status quo, then find someone that will take pleasure in pleasuring you.

[Pumpkinupthejam]

Actually I would say most guys enjoy giving their partner pleasure. Unfortunately it seems you have a selfish partner who has been used to sex that only has to meet his needs because you didn't really have / express any.

Out of interest what were the other issues in your marriage and how did they eventually get resolved?

Can you use the same approach?

[NaiveWoman]

YY to 'used to have sex only in that way'. Knowing him change will be a big issue as well adapting to it.

Other issues were all around change actually. Birth of the dcs, me stopping work (was made redundant) and then going back to work when youngest dc was 2yo. We ended up in a situation that was just unsustainable for me and him still living his life as if he was a bachelor.
Problems have been solved though atm he is doing more of the HW and childcare than I am as I am working stupid hours and he finds it normal. It's the transition that was an issue.
Maybe this is the case here too.

Atm I feel a bit like a fraud. I read some of the recent threads yesterday. One about a woman who was complaining that her DH had never given her an orgasm despite guidance/talking etc... And was told that a sex life IS an important part of a marriage and to LTB.
A more recent one from a man with the same problem (she had never been keen on sex) and was told that there isn't just sex in a marriage. And what was he expecting anyway, seeing how things were at the start of the relationship?
Where does it leave me?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Where it leaves you is to work out what's important to you & what your tolerances and boundaries. Everyone's different. Also the circumstances are different. A determinedly lazy or selfish lover that doesn't accept there is a problem is a very different matter to a sex-life that has become compromised by the stress/fatigue of 'life' (such as the arrival of children) but which could get back to normal with a bit of TLC and flexibility.

Marriage doesn't live or die by the quality of sex - there is more to it - but it is not selfish or unreasonable to want a partner who cares enough to try to make it better.

[EricLovesAnyFucker]

Men are not selfish bastards. At least not all of them. Being a selfish lover is not a characteristic of all men!
OP, do you think he genuinely doesn't enjoy pleasuring you, or is it that it takes too long for him to keep his erection? Are you trying to always come during penetration? Sometimes if you are concentrating on your position and orgasm and the man isn't thrusting he can get a bit soft. What about taking turns? Concentrate on you until you orgasm and put his erection out of the equation, then focus on getting him hard and his orgasm? Have you tried using a small bullet type vibrator? It might speed things up! (For both of you).

[EricLovesAnyFucker]

There's a double standard on MN when it comes to sex issues in relationships. It stems from the internalised belief that men want sex more than women and are always up for it, and IMO a fair bit if projection. Your relationship is what's at stake here, nobody else's.

[NaiveWoman]

Eric interesting pov.
No I am not trying to come with penetration all the time. Actually that bit is easier (I am on top and do all the 'work' and DH seems to be ok with that). It's when he is doing it that it's not working iyswim
But maybe a good point re using a vibrator (at least on my own. Can't even picture myself talking to DH about it). It might remove the frustration side of things.

Just now I wish I had let all that lie and not bothered to look into it. You don't really miss what you've never had/experienced. I wouldn't have had a rich sex life but at least I wouldn't be so frustrated and in some ways feeling let down. It's like someone had opened a door in front of me, a door to a another world, one that looks nice and inviting but I am not allowed to step in iyswim. So I can only look, realize how much people have fun there but not being part of it.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

What you've never had you don't miss is a pretty limiting, not to say defeatist philosophy. Stay in your box? Try nothing new? Everyone is supposed to develop, learn and grow as they mature and, in a healthy relationship, everyone develops together.