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Huge row over savings - who's in the wrong? I think 50/50? :((111 Posts)
Long story short. DH is terrible with money. Has never had any savings and when I met him he was overdrawn. I helped him get out of his O/D, then he went clothes shopping and went into his O/D again - he just doesn't get it!
When we married we pooled finances and I am in charge of it all, spending, saving etc. We had a plan that every year (April to April) we will save £x000.
Last April we made target. Since then we have actually saved nothing, but I have budgeted to save like mad between now and next March so we will still hit target come April.
DH has just found out we have saved nothing since April and is FURIOUS. But, the reasoning for this is every month we have spent little bits here and there, that have swallowed up any potential savings for that month. Mostly however, we had an amazing holiday over summer where we totally went above budget. I must say that this was largely down to DH's spending on clothes, he likes expensive items, and he works so hard and I feel like such a nag if I say "no you can't have it!" or "no we can't go to the cinema or visit Starbucks this month!" He doesn't like being told no, but I DO admit I should have been firm, said "we can't afford it" about things, and saved every month.
Also I admit it's not just him buying things, I have had bits and pieces here and there too.
BUT we have had a huge row and we're not speaking. He fails to see how we have saved nothing and is basically asking me, "where has it all gone", implying that I've been spending 100s on the lottery or something! I have shown him the last few months of credit card bills but he just doesn't see it. He doesn't get it.
Who is BU and how can we fix this?
My XH sounds like this. He just doesn't see where the money goes. He will eat lunch out everyday, have coffees all the time but not get that he is actually spending money. It's 'just lunch' or 'just a coffee'.
He'll also do things like "I saw item X was on offer for £20 so I bought 5 of them" - not thinking that item X was not really needed in the first place. It's a proper blind spot and it runs throughout his entire family.
Glad I'm out of it tbh!
I suspect your DH needs everything down in black and white but even then his behaviour around money seems deeply entrenched. Good luck with that.
We have a five account set up and it works quite well. On the first of each month money gets transferred to the bills account which all our direct debits come out of, a set amount gets transferred to our personal accounts and a set amount to the savings account. Whatever is left pays for food, petrol, clothes etc during the month.
We only used to have 4 accounts but found it a pita trying to remember what direct debits were still due to come out at the end of the month.
What would happen if you got rid of CCs and put a fixed amount into an account for him and a separate one for you for spends? How long into the month before it's gone? Would that help him understand how much things cost?
If you are taking money out of savings that does not count as paying off the CC each month. If you want cash back or similar from your credit card - but some of the bills such as groceries on it and pay it off each month. Don't use it for non-essentials.
It doesn't sound too bad to me except for the credit card(s) and I appreciate you have no debt but I bet the amount by which you both overspend is more than the value of the points and the cash back.
Total of what comes in
Total of unavoidable bills that have to go out and include everything: rates, water rates, leccy, gas, tv licence, phone contract, BT, internet, gym memberships, charity donation (?), car tax, car insurance, house insurance, petrol, season tickets, etc, etc.
What's left is what you have to spend on food, to save, and to buy extras.
You need to have a reasonable food budget
Reasonable spends including clothes and hair, etc.
The savings need to go into an account at the beginning of the month and the spends need to go into your personal bank accounts and if he ends up with an overdraft and you don't there's the evidence of who is the better manager. And finally, in my opinion day to day spends, ie, coffees, paper, book magazine, bubble bath need to come out of a cash allowance because when £50 is in your purse when it's gone, it's gone.
My DH makes similar comments about 'but I earn a good salary - we should be able to have x' and 'where does it all go?!'. He knows I'm not lying - he just can't believe how our day to day expenses add up. Like you, I offer to show him the breakdown and he doesn't usually bother.
He'd never be cross and moody with me about it though. You may have been at fault initially for not flagging up the issue, but he's being unreasonable now.
He doesn't want to have the bother of managing the accounts, budgeting, adding up the cost of everything. He just wants to sit back and have it all magically work out alright.
FFS Tell Mr 'Moody' to grow up. He's annoyed because this is an adult conversation, requires planning, teamwork, self-restraint and his financial IQ is arrested somewhere around the teenage years.
I agree with all of the last few posts!
I am not going to discuss it any more with him now. Yes I should have flagged it, but I have apologised for that and suggested a number of ways to sort out the problem.
Starting tomorrow I will pin a list of all spending to the fridge so he can see it every day. He has happily shown no interest or taken any responsibility for the finances so I am not going to feel crap and guilty any more, because it's not ALL my fault.
Sorry, but he's being a brat. The reality is that you save from discretionary spending. He wants the treats and the savings and is throwing a strop when confronted by reality. How is it your fault? I can understand the disappointment, don't get me wrong, but not the flounce.
I'm awful with money, and DH is good. I appreciate how organised he is and accept if we're both self-indulgent one month the accounts suffer. I don't blame your DH for being bad with money, but I do for wanting you to do all the work and then perform miracles. Has he ever once thanked you for all the extra work you put into the family accounting? I do my DH. It's a chore, and one he does uncomplainingly. Why are you not entitled to a similar amount of appreciation?
Actually OP I think his attitude is a real problem. His saying, 'I earn therefore I should spend' is childish and ridiculous when there are already money issues.
To be honest...of course he doesn't realise the cost of living...he doesn't KNOW the cost of living because he's not budgeting. You are. That's why I don't get a set up where one person literally is in control of it all. The other person can plead ignorance.
I would stop trying to cajole him and just get furious.
If he can't take any responsibility then he doesn't get to criticise you.
Ask him if he is really so stupid as to think that if you have £1000 a month to spend on food/clothes etc and he is going and spending £200 a week on non-essentials that the books are going to balance. I've pulled those numbers out of the air for ease, but he just sounds like he has no clue at all.
He is being the tit here, not you.
I don't like this thing of him making you responsible for him and his spending. If he wants to magically have x amount of savings each year then he has to be actively involved in making that happen, instead of handing it all over to you, sabotaging any attempt to save and then getting stroppy that nothing got saved.
DH can't believe how much things cost. He honestly thinks we should feed the family for £70/week.
We are itemising every penny we spend & honestly we don't have any stupid habits, but it adds up.
He honestly thinks we should feed the family for £70/week.
Perhaps you should try it for a week, just to make the point.
I would stop trying to appease him, I'm assuming there is nothing wrong with his brain so i would safely assume he understands the situation perfectly and where the money goes. Maybe he feels like he's being denied what he wants to buy and if you're all being so careful (mostly) then why is there no money, who knows really...regardless i would be telling him that's the situation you can see it on the speadsheet and in the statements believe it or not...
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
All these XHs and STBXHs are making me nervous! We have a great relationship otherwise. In fact this is our first proper huge row all year!!
I will updat with how we get on with the itemising...
The reason for all the X's is that belligerence over financial matters is often indicative of a more generally selfish, immature or irresponsible person. Few people work out the finances properly before merrily moving in together or getting married and they really should. Younger, childless couples IME can bobble along quite happily on two incomes with no real need to budget or plan. Everything in the garden is rosy - no challenges. Then the day comes where the money has to be managed carefully - maybe there's a baby on the way or they need to save up to buy a house - and, if one of them objects to any form of self-restraint or inspection of their spending, that's when things kick off.
Happens a lot and splits up a lot of couples
So he was rubbish with money before and didn't get it. Now you are in charge but he still doesn't get it and over spends but you are being mummy in relation to the finances and so he can blame you for his failures.
I don't think you can be in charge of the money when he takes no responsibility for his part in the spending. It would be different if he understood it, but its not fair of him to blame you for actions which are at least in part his.
He is abdication all responsibility for every part of this.
I would consider splitting finances again. Let him take some adult responsibility.
I think you're still babying him. He needs to see for himself what things cost. Either you go through your spreadsheet or credit card statement and add everything up under categories, or he does it.
If you pay for everything on credit card you should be able to go through the last few statements and work out exactly how much these weekly treats and show him that's where the £x amount that should have gone into savings have gone to.
I agree give him weekly/monhtly spends which is to cover all of his and the dc clothes and treats and let him learn how to budget with that...
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
I suspect though that he still won't see it. If it's an attitude to money like my XH's (of yes, another X!) then you can talk until you're blue in the face, lay all the receipts on the table and provide a series of highly illuminating colour coded graphs set to show tunes and he won't get past the frittering. I realised we were in trouble when I pointed out that a proposed change of job, which involved moving, was going to potentially put us £60k in debt. His career was worth this apparently
He can't expect savings is he takes no responsibility himself for outgoings. It's just not going to work.
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