Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.
Not really sure what just happened with DH(251 Posts)
I got upset with DH last night because, once again, he didn't want to have sex. He says he's very tired/exhausted/just can't put the effort in right now (he is managing a stressful billion pound deal for various parties/clients, so responsibility all on him), even though I have asked him to make an effort with me to improve our sex life. I also ovulated last night and we had agreed while cuddling in bed that we were going to have sex, so I got ready for bed and came out to find him having left the bed and in the living room watching TV. He then turned all the lights off, said goodnight and turned over.
I (very calmly) pointed out that he had just said we were going to have sex. He said no I'm too tired and I got upset and said I really needed to have sex more than once every month (we are virtual newlyweds with no DCs) within our marriage because I loved the intimacy of it.
He then got extremely cross with me and started shouting. He said I made his life stressful and listed various jobs around the house I had not done (cleaning sofa covers, sewing buttons on his shirt etc) and told me I knew "nothing." "Nothing about sex, about relationships, about love, money, about hard work." He said he was trying to manage our lives and finances, protect and secure us money for the future after providing me with a great home and good life and here I was "offended," he was too tired to have sex.He carried on to say that I was not his equal, that being with me was like an adult being with a lazy child wanting her needs satisfied every day.
I told him that I had not accused him of anything I had just told him something I wanted and I understood how much pressure he was under and please don't make it so personal and bring our entire relationship into question, but the fuse was already lit (he has a tendency to go off on one once he's started.) so most of the night he starts accusing me of things - that I will definitely cheat on him because my sex drive is so high and he can't satisfy it. That I must be mentally unhinged. He then leaves the room and comes back in and tells me he's decided I'm depressed and I need help (I'm not.)
I recently got sacked from a job and lost one of my close friends and he turns both into something that is my fault - you're lazy, you don't work hard enough, your friend X is a shit friend, but so are all of your friends you can't rely on any of them - if you really want to put the world to rights, start with your shit friendships and forget your dissatisfaction about sex.
On and on until 4am.
He provides everything and works very hard. I do work (did until I got sacked last week) and I am not lazy, although I admit I am not the most practical person on earth.
At 4am once his stream of consciousness/accusations have run out, he starts poking me under the covers and pulling my knickers down. Now, of course, is not the time I feel like having sex. So I say no and he uses that as yet more fuel for the fire of my "fickle, satisfaction-based personality."
Have woken up this morning and feel like I'ce been hit by a bus. What do you think has happened?
Tonight me and DH had a bit of a, well none row,more of a sulk. I was quite snappy, I'm knackered with 18 week old dd, fed up of heat, dd whining etc, so DH made a couple of jokes and I was a bit of a cow. He then had a sulk. We didnt row all night, we were both flat out asleep by 9:30 after saying a muted "night" to each other.
If he'd still been criticising me now or me him, we'd be splitting up.
Above is more in line with being exhausted, feeling the pressure etc than ranting until 4am. Well no doubt be fine in the morning.
You really need to seriously consider ltb.
No news from the OP?
I hope she's OK.
Reading your thread has clarified something for me, Round, which I hadn't realised still needed to be clear! My ex-husbands and ex-boss used to tell me all the time what was 'wrong' with me. Sometimes it would be in the form of little digs, sideswipes and 'jokes'. Other times, full-on raging rants like the one you posted here. Something I've only just realised is that I am still internalising some of their accusations ... even though I know they were wrong, and didn't even believe half of it themselves!
I've always been able to see how this happened. My dad - and, to a lesser extent, my entire family - did it. I grew up with a heightened awareness of my many faults (most of which I didn't really have!) and to downplay my achievements. I was one of those slim, pretty, clever girls who call themselves fat, ugly and thick - and believe it. So the husbands merely fed into that. They must have thought they'd really struck gold with me: they were punching above their weight, but I didn't know it. When they told me how lovely I was, and how lucky they were, they were telling the truth and I felt grateful. When they told me how fat/boring/lazy/crazy/etc I was, I felt they had a point! Even when I argued back, underneath I felt low-worth. They knew it, and leveraged it. And, really, what human being should ever have to argue that they're not ugly, boring or useless, let alone to the person who married them or hired them?
Now here's the thing: I never did it to them. When I had criticisms to make, I was careful to check the validity and to make my words unthreatening. I sandwiched my negatives between positives. I offered advice in such a way that I didn't suggest they were 'wrong'. I never called them names or insulted their being; not even once. And I haven't realised this until today, because I used to rant. I ranted, blustered, screamed and cried - we had rows; I wasn't silently taking all their loathing. Because they told me I did to them what they did to me - and because we're taught it takes two to tango, - I've always accepted I must have given it back. But I didn't! I was trying to justify myself (I now know that's pointless when you're dealing with a bully,) and begging to know why the man who adored me in the morning found me so disgusting by the evening. I made the mistake of trying to apply reason to the unreasoning.
If I could revisit those events I'd take a step back, pick up my handbag, and leave for good. One unreasoned rant is one too many.
I'm kind of guessing you're not in this situation quite yet, or not ready to make the connection. Perhaps you're being 'hoovered' and enjoying it - why not? But, maybe next time you find yourself being raged at for faults that simply are not yours, you'll get your bag and go.
It's a problem if you don't know you are in an abuse relationship, kind of hard to steer clear of councelling then... Kind of the role of the councellor to not join in the abuse too...
I would agree with just wait on the baby side. You will need him onside and helping you if you're going to be able to cope with a newborn. It's really hard to get anything done in the house with a baby. Knowing what I know now (unplanned pg with unhelpful father and relationship breakdown after 7 years), people don't change and if its not working now its going to get worse. I'm sure you love him so give him a chance to sort himself (counselling etc) but if nothing changes you have to end it. Maybe say to yourself if nothing's different in 3 months you'll go.
Oops, not to give the impression I'd see a couple dealing with abuse separately either, would only see one party so I could be unbiased.
Some Relate counsellors are hideous, and some Relate branches only encourage
dangerous poor counsellors. Once met the area manager for my county's Relate service in relation to a job and have NEVER been so put off a job before or since. It's not easy to shock me but she managed with her personal opinions and, worse, the working practices she advocated. Please don't judge all counsellors by Relate's example. Perhaps look for a different counsellor on your own. I personally would never see a couple (together) if there was any mention of unresolved abuse and your counsellor should not be judging what is acceptable for your husband to do/how to act, they should be helping you work through feelings and decide what to do for yourself. If any counsellor starts giving you opinions, as in "I think you're unmanning him" or ignores mention of violence etc, run for the hills.
I had a bad experience with Relate too. DH had stopped applying for jobs and I didn't have a right to be angry and frustrated... back to the 'unmanning' bollocks. And he's not even abusive...
OP, hope you're okay.
I went to relate with EXH because he was violent. Counsellor told me that I had to put aside violence and the sessions focussed on how EXH could make himself heard in the marriage. I honestly think that the whole experience sent me into shock. Looking back it was surreal like I dreamt it but honestly I didn't dream it. I would not advise anyone in an abusive relationship to go to counselling with an abusive person. Just seriously don't do it ever.
my initial reaction was to say LTB
having read some of the thread I am now fairly sure that you should LTB.
at least try and separate from him. and get counselling
Mmm. I had a counsellor who cost 75 quid an hour and was an hour and a half drive away. Expensive all round. Top of the tree and very respected. she got my ex all wrong. Spectacularly wrong. Dangerously wrong one might even say.
he is a complete tosser. and an abusive bully who will unquestionably get worse as time goes by. do not under any circumstances get pregnant by him. you might think that will make him nicer to you / make your marriage better - trust me it will make it a whole pile worse and a whole lot harder to get out of. Im sure you would love to have a baby but dont have one with him.
as someone else said he has shown you his true colours - now its your job to listen to him when he tells you that he has no respect for you, doesnt trust you, thinks all sorts of horrible things about you. Please dont make the mistake i did by not listening when my H showed me what he was really like. Dont make excuses for him that he is tired, stressed, usually not like that, works so hard for us etc etc - you will end up very very unhappy.
i havent read many of the other replies but i imagine if they are all like mine you are thinking that this is a bit OTT and your H isnt as bad as all that. I was like that once but eventually after a few hellish years i realised what i was married to.
that feeling you had when he tried to have sex with you after verbally abusing you, and that feeling you had when you woke up this morning the confusion and the idea that the rug had been pulled from under you. That is the effect of emotional and psychological abuse....
get out now while you still have only yourself to worry about.. please
It is a major MAJOR problem that needs addressing.
Double that counsellor needs reporting and striking off. Not surprised that its Relate though. Relate counsellor with 20 years experience Suzie Hayman answers probs in one of the womens weeklies and ive seen her victim blame more than once even in cases where the letter/e mail writer has said that their partner has lost his temper.
just to echo no joint counselling. And to give hug to op and Double. counsellors can be arses. My xp went to mental health nurse and counsellor, and apparently they both condemned me as selfish and immature, without having met me. But that's an aside, I would assume you can choose what you need to talk to your counsellor about, as this is rather a pressing issue. If you want to get your head around that first, you can come back to resolving the stuff with your dad later, when you are safe and sound.
Hope you are ok today.
The trouble is that abusers are manipulative and often charming. It doesn't matter how much bollocks the abuser comes out with in front of a counsellor, if the victim is too scared to stand up to the abuser then they're not going to do it any better in front of a counsellor than they do alone. They already know what they will have to face when they get home .....
[angry) for you double and your horrendous experience
Double, I am so glad you are away from that monster
That counsellor was shit, and dangerous. I do always reiterate though that such counselling is not recommended where there is abuse, and your horrific experience is a sobering example
I am sorry you found out the hard way, love
That counsellor needs reporting.
Nice isnt it, the counsellor effectively said "Your husband is allowed to rape you, its what men do".
Im with AF, on the shooting.
Nope no church group, was through the relate website! I wonder if you thought church group cos of her attitude towards woman & sex... She was very liberal though, but just not when it came to allowjng me feeling or humanity. I guess she joined h with that. I suppose totally out of her depth and wouldn't admit it to herself, but I don't understand how she could have squared those sessions with any of her training...
I was so convinced in her professionalism that I just kept trying to make sense of it and kept on going trying to make it alright and ignore minor details like reality and all. It's taken me years to get to the point of processing and dismissing alot of that councelling...
- she ignored it when I told her h threw full supermarket shopping bags at my head (including cans and glass bottles)... Just moved on like I hadn't said anything. Wish I'd have known that was physical abuse and I was right to be scared. Took me years, mumsnet, a good councellor and escalation of it to work it out myself...
- she told me I was humiliating him and out of order when he complained about an evening when I pointed out it was My money he'd just generously bought a huge round with... He was good at spending all my money, and I'm still paying off the debts many years later, but aparently wasn't ok for me to object to this... As I 'unmanned him'
This was when I was desperately trying to work out why he leeched off me, I earnt the money, did 60/70 hr weeks, tidied and cleaned, organised everything, ran around trying to make him happy and he isolated me from family and friends and told me I was a disgusting piece of shit and he hated me, lazy, nasty, ugly etc etc
And I carried on letting him have really aggressive sex with me and bled each time as he ripped me... I just hugged myself to him so I could cry over his shoulder without him seeing, as it would be my fault if I spoiled it by showing I wasn't enjoying it. Haven't had sex still after that, or even been on a date, some things just stay with you.
Anyway, by point to the OP was don't even try coupled councelling, cos the councellor might make things very worse as they might know the 'no councelling abusive relationships', but in reality, might not recognise it
I know, knee jerk reaction from me
Ok then that counsellor wants shooting
You're assuming that counselling is properly regulated AF. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that double's counsellor came from a church group
Christ, that counsellor wants striking off
Oh, Double That's shocking.
Join the discussion
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join in the discussion, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Register now
Already registered with Mumsnet? Log in to leave your comment or alternatively, sign in with Facebook or Google.
Please login first.