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Rebuilding trust, then this . .

(112 Posts)
Moreofthesame Fri 21-Jun-13 06:33:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

bigstrongmama Fri 21-Jun-13 16:43:12

Intent is definitely enough. You can't trust him. I would stick to that as your main argument, if he is bamboozling you with the details and excuses. You can't trust him, and trust is the foundation of a good relationship. He is not going to agree with you that it is over, you need to stay firm.

lemonstartree Fri 21-Jun-13 16:43:20

yes, I'm sorry but I believe the search implied intent.

He will say 'But I haven't DONE anything, I was just looking'

how will you respond to that ? I would come and sit with you later if I was close. Are you sure you dont have a RL friend/relative hwo will help you?

My ExH was a drug addict. he splintered our family. betrayed me and trashed my trust. I gave him another chance. And you guessed it he did it again. Actually that time it was easier. I knew he could never be the husband and father we deserved. I divorced him and I have not looked back. The 2 years between the first and second betrayal were , in retrospect, a waste of time. he has lost my respect completely the first time and I never really forgave him. I was SO angry that I was pushed into a position I had no wish to be in (single parent) through no fault of my own. Just because of his selfishness and entitlement

If you cannot forgive this ( and I see no reason on earth why would would even try) its over - make the break cleanly and decisively. Its bloody hard, but easier than destroying yourself trying to forgive the unforgivable

big hugs, You will be ok x

tessa6 Fri 21-Jun-13 16:45:27

The intent is that he went to a website (didn't search for it, right? knew the website address? Went straight there as it were?) This means he has visited it before. And possible even USED it before. This is fact. So it's not a weird, one time, curiosity thing. These are REAL women. Not porn stars or celeb crushes but people claiming they are up for no strings, secret sex.

Dont' worry, we're here with you.

He specified an age range and a location, a real one, not a random one, near his work place, as safe and unlikely to get caught as possible (i.e not where he WAS at the house, or a random selection of letters just to see).

If you get into asking specific questions (have you ever used this site? have you ever paid for sex? etc etc) he is going to answer no. Expect this. Our instinct is to build up to the questions as if that's the scary bit and we don't know what will come back at us. Bollocks. We do know. He's going to say no. So be prepared for that. That DOESN'T make it true.

Stick to what you know. you know he is famliar with this website (I think) you KNOW he has been considering getting extra marital sex elsewhere without you knowing about it, DESPITE everything you have put up with and you have both been through. THIS IS ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW.

He will try and make you see that because he hasn't DONE anything (strike that, because you can't PROVE he's done anything) then your sorrow or anger is unjustified. This is because he is feeling guilty and wants to downplay it all. You need to say, over and over, that the type of man who after everything he put you through, would use a site like that with the intention he had, is not someone you can be marries to. This is not unreasonable. This is not 'hysterical'. It is logical and sensible. These are the facts.

Don't get me wrong, I think you should ask him the other questions, but it's unlikely he'll be fully honest with you. Just don't let that destabilise you.

Keep returning to your point. And keep your eyes open for other things.

Moreofthesame Fri 21-Jun-13 16:50:22

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Moreofthesame Fri 21-Jun-13 16:53:33

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themaltesecat Fri 21-Jun-13 17:03:57

You'll get through this. flowers

Distrustinggirlnow Fri 21-Jun-13 17:11:28

I'm so sorry to read this OP. I have had a similar experience to you up until the last bit. I'm trying to put myself in your position. (Sigh) ........
I would be so gutted, let down and then angry I think. I would also check his emails and see if there were any in there that were dubious. I'd probably search the site and see if he had an ad on there too. Or see if I could log on as him. I'd want as much evidence info as poss for when I spoke to him, to make it less easier for him to wriggle out of.

You've been here before so you know exactly how he will react. How he will minimise then rush to delete everything.

If there are any emails, forward them to yourself.

There is a way you can search on the iPad to see if he's sent emails or messages then deleted them. There's also a lesser known way to check the history. You prob know all this but if I can help, let me know. You will need to be prepared for the worst tho.

The fact that he's looked may be enough for you to say, do you know what, I can't do this any more. That's me done now and walk away.

I can't believe that after he's tried so hard that he'd throw it all away. I'm so sorry. Here's a brew

He has to go, or this is your life from now on. You deserve better and so do your DC.

AnyFucker Fri 21-Jun-13 17:48:14

I totally agree with tessa

I am so sorry, love

Surely this is game over no more discussion to be had

You said "one more strike"

You have to follow through, or this will be your life for the rest of your marriage

does that seem appealing ?

Moreofthesame Fri 21-Jun-13 17:49:10

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AnyFucker Fri 21-Jun-13 17:50:18

In his eyes he isn't "throwing it all away"

this is what he wants, this is what he thinks he is entitled to

he will lie and minimise all of it

he will accuse you of "throwing it all away" but you wouldn't be

deep down, you know the truth

listen to your inner voice, it won't let you down

Moreofthesame Fri 21-Jun-13 17:51:17

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tessa6 Fri 21-Jun-13 17:59:31

If he gets angry with you, bad sign. If he storms out, bad sign. If he tries to change the subject, bad sign. Your gut will be on the money most of the time, but don't trust what you 'want' to be true, only what you feel to be true.

The most important answer will be to 'why' he did that search. A mature, sorrowful, self-questioning man will have to look deep down inside himself and come up with a grubby but honest answer. If he tries to brush it off, calls it curiosity and won't explain, or says it was just a stupid fantasy, bad sign. If he says it was just a stupid fantasy that still doesn't explain WHY. It's real, not porn.

After what's he done you are well within your rights to be checking things. Don't forget you will have had a reason for doing that. After so long not checking up on him, why did you? Was your gut telling you something?

The best way to be is as calm as possible but iron-willed. Some people would start with 'Is there anything you want to tell me? I want to talk to you about something difficult and painful and I was wondering if you wanted to raise something yourself first.'

The calmer you are the more control you have, but there's no reason you should punish yourself is you get upset or angry. He has upset and angered you.

Chubfuddler Fri 21-Jun-13 18:00:14

When his lips are moving

Distrustinggirlnow Fri 21-Jun-13 18:02:00

Yes OP that's it re safari etc...

And the way you know if he's lying, is because you know the truth....

Stick to facts. I know you've been on marital affairs website. Can u tell me why that is a good idea.

Then be absolutely silent. There will be silence. Do not fill it..

AnyFucker Fri 21-Jun-13 18:02:44

how do you tell he is lying ?

his mouth is moving

Sorry, that might have been a bit lighthearted for you right now. But he is a liar. You know he is a liar. Nothing appears to have changed, so why would he now tell the truth?

And what do you think his "truth" will be ?

he was "just looking" seems to be the minimum he could attempt to get away with

is that acceptable to you, in view of the history here ?

ktef Fri 21-Jun-13 18:02:56

You have said a few times that you l

Badvoc Fri 21-Jun-13 18:08:10

Exactly what level of disrespect and betrayal is game over for you op?
Exactly how much more are you prepared to take? And for your dc to take?
Have you had an sti check?

ktef Fri 21-Jun-13 18:12:20

Sorry, stupid phone. You have said you love him. But once you accept that this is th real him do you still feel that? He is someone who thinks he loves his wife but for whom that is not enough. He is someone who likes having sex on the side while have family life with you. He is someone who likes doing that even though he knows how his wife deals about it. He is someone who will go to another room to look up women's details. Do you really love that man? Because whether he looked with intent or not doesn't change who he is. YOU are free to decide whether you want to stay with this man or not. I think his time of explaining, crying, denying, minimising etc is passed. What matters now is what you decide about how you feel about the real him.
Best wishes, I feel sure there is a better life out there for you.

Wellwobbly Fri 21-Jun-13 18:13:21

Dear OP, after 4 years of complete going nowhere, I discovered that my remorseful, really working on himself H was back in touch with Miss Shiny. Which act finally set me free, and realising that I am worth so much more than this. Have you found a wonderful site called Chumplady?

Dear Chump Lady,

Please help me to decode this.

I have been in a relationship with my partner for 2.5 years. When we met, he told me he was divorced. I queried as to why, and he advised that he and his wife had married young. (He was 27) and that they had simply grown apart in the two years that they had been together. I had recently been engaged prior and my ex had run off without any warning so I simply thought “hey I’m sure that could happen” and we started a relationship.

He was hilarious, good looking and absolutely adored me from the get go. I still felt unsettled about his past, as I am a firm believer that you need to understand why your relationships end so you can move forward, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt as overall he was a top guy, and myself as well as everyone else loved him.

About six months into our relationship, he left his facebook open and I saw that there were a series of email messages between him and another woman from back when he was married. They were discussing how good the sex was between them and how they missed each other. I confronted him with the fact he had an affair and he stumbled and said “it was never physical.” Well bullshit, I told him I had read it and he better come clean. He confessed to a three-month affair during his marriage. Said it was the worst mistake of his life, he had lost everything over it and he would never forget it.

I struggled with it, didn’t know whether to break up with him over it. But again, he was such a great guy! Surely when you lose your marriage over an affair you learn your lesson right? WRONG.

I actually apologized to him for judging him on his past and who was I to judge someone, as they were no longer in that place in their life? Chumpy isn’t it?

Six months later, I saw an email pop up on his iPad, it was from ‘melanielovesadam@…’. This woman had just had a child and had sent him a text with a picture of a new born son with the text message ‘my new toy boy’ xoxoxo. (Vomit)

I confronted him, and he denied anything until it basically became painfully obvious that he was lying through his teeth. I made him open the account and checked the trash. There were hundreds of messages between the two of them, telling each other that they missed each other, they loved each other, and hey wasn’t the sex exactly 9 months before the birth of the new born son amazing? I deduced that had slept with each other after we had become official (only once of course) and it turns out that the affair started six months after he had married his ex and had continued in either an emotional and/or physical fashion ever since. So technically they had been involved for over four years in one shape or another!

As you can imagine, I went ballistic and ran from the house. From that minute he was all remorse. He apologized to my family, his friends, my friends. He enrolled in counselling, he read books like “Not Just Friends”, he went to church, cut off all contact with her and basically handled any trigger or emotion from me by telling me it was not my fault, he loved me and he would do anything to spend his life making it up to me. I started to feel safe again. Sounds like successful reconciliation right? WRONG.

Thirteen months into recovery, he takes me shopping for engagement rings, I am a bit wary, I share my concerns, but we now have a stronger relationship as we can talk about anything and I feel like he really gets me. I ask him if she ever tried to make contact again, he tells me that she never has and if she did I would be the first to know about it. We proceed forward, he lodges annulment papers so that we can marry in the Catholic church, he plans to ask my father for my hand on our next family holiday.

Last week I found a picture he took of his penis and sent to the other woman, turns out she called him about five months ago, he picked up the phone and they just “started talking again’” then oops I accidentally sent a picture of my penis to her???

WTF, why go through all the counseling, all the grovelling, the apologies to family and friends and then do this? He said it was never going to get physical at all and he “never meant to intentionally hurt me.”

I just don’t get it?!!! Now he is grovelling again, telling me I am his world and he will fight to earn my trust and the right to love me again. I feel like I am in an episode of the Bold and the Beautiful.

WTF is going on with my perfect, lying, cheating POS boyfriend? People are saying, maybe it’s not so bad, as he didn’t sleep with her, but WTF??!! What is with this mind bend, a perfect, warm beautiful man, who likes to send pictures of his penis to a married other woman with a child?

Please help.

Melissa

Dear Melissa,

Gee, and I wonder why I’m skeptical about cheater “remorse.” Okay, first things first — this is his child with her, right? I’m sure he denies it (if you asked. Did you even go there?) Melissa, I think you need to brace yourself for the idea that he NEVER ended it with her and he has another life with her and their child.

Look, people don’t enthuse about the great sex they had before they conceived, and send a picture of a newborn to a guy who is NOT the father. That doesn’t happen, Melissa.

What you have on your hands here, Melissa, IMO is a sociopath. Yeah, they’re really sparkly. And yeah, they fake remorse really, really well. (If they want something. But if they take you for a dry well of kibbles, they show no emotion whatsoever. Gig is up.) This is all a big game to him — how much cake he can stuff in his gob. You, her, and god knows who else that’s privy to his penis pictures. The guy who cheats on his wife, gets another woman pregnant, disavows his responsibilities, and sexts his junk — this is who that man REALLY is. The sparkly hologram who read “Not Just Friends”? That guy is a con artist.

You’re catnip to a guy like him, because you were vulnerable when you met him. You had another idiot who just waltzed off and ended an engagement. (Hugely shitty, but at least he didn’t fuck with your emotions and pretend like this POS.) That means, when your boyfriend went all full sparkles on you, and made noises about commitment, you were IN. Failure is not an option! I get it. Mine targeted single mothers. Same dynamic. They want the try harder chump. The person whose got a deep, vested interest in making this work. You don’t want to connect the dots about who he really is because then you think if you do that, you have to connect them for yourself. I’m not worthy. No one will ever love me. This is what people do, they abandon me. What’s wrong with me?

Nothing is wrong with you, except you need to work a bit on your picker. Totally curable condition. Unlike Mr. Sparkles there, who is a disordered freak and will always, always, always no matter how weak his knees get from groveling, be a disordered freak.

Why does he do this? I don’t know. Why did Mengele conduct experiments on children? Why does Jody Arias think her ugly haircut will prove her innocence? You want me to get inside the mind of a sociopath? I leave that to the professionals. (Try the Dr. Simon books up there in the Amazon box and Lundy Bancroft’s “Why Does He Do That”?) There is no understanding them — there is only getting AWAY from them.

You have more than enough information to understand that this man is toxic and dangerous to your well-being. You need to go total no contact with him forever. It’s a blessing that you learned these things before you married him. You’ve escaped. I know it hurts, but I promise you don’t have the sunk costs that a lot of chumps here have.

Please resist the urge to figure him out. That’s wasted energy. We call that “untangling the skein of fuckupedness” here. Work on you. Grieve who you thought he was and what you thought your future would be with him. Be kind to yourself. Good people absolutely exist and they are out there when you’re ready for them. You were right to trust your instincts and you were totally right to end it. You’re off to a great start in getting over this. I’m sorry he wasted several years of your life, but you will learn a ton of good about yourself that you can take forward. (((Big hugs)))

Moreofthesame Fri 21-Jun-13 18:13:32

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ktef Fri 21-Jun-13 18:14:17

So many typos. Sorry, hope you get the gist. X

Moreofthesame Fri 21-Jun-13 18:18:23

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AgathaF Fri 21-Jun-13 18:18:48

Strength to you for tonight. You know the truth. You know what you will accept. If the two don't match, so be it. I'm sure he can find somewhere to stay for tonight, whilst he considers what an absolute dick he has been.

You deserve better than this.

Moreofthesame Fri 21-Jun-13 18:20:50

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

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