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Dh has been stealing from me to gamble(104 Posts)
he has lost £1,800 in the last month. We have always kept our finances separate and I pay all the bills. But he has been using my cash card without my knowledge. We've been married 8 years and have a one-year old. I've also found out he has borrowings with about 7 payday loan companies and other dodgy loans. I had no idea before today.
Anyone been through anything similar?
Your marriage vows involve love.
I think real deep down love, that hates the sin but loves the sinner, involves tough decisions. Tough love.
It's going to be be really hard. You will need need counselling and support. There are some Christian counselling organisations , its worth checking those out.
You have duties to 3 people, imv, your dd as the prime non adult one and then your DH and yourself. Your dd can't do anything but rely on you, so for her sake you need to.put yourself next.
OP - you noted that I supported marriage. You did not note that I told truthfully of a paid off house being remortgaged on a forged signature.
(it was the vicar who persuaded my mother to file for divorce)
Very late to this thread and am quite shy of posting, but I will go ahead. In 1979 a cousin in my family swanned off to the U.S "for a year", paid for by his sister so that he could escape the financial mess ( he is an alcoholic and fraudster and thief) and a possible prison term that his reckless, enabled behaviour caused. He married a woman bigamously in the U.S and lo and behold he turned up two weeks before christmas in 2011. His wife in all the thirty one years that he was away( he did not send back one red cent for his now grown children in all the time he was away) had not divorced him ( despite obvious evidence that he cared not one jot about her or his children. Older and wiser women than me had to counsel her to get a divorce as the shame of her children and him fighting over the spoils should she die would be too shameful. You see, despite his abusive, narcissistic behaviour, SHE took her marriage vows seriously and despite being a lovely woman, she is somewhat a professional martyr ( she hasn't had a man since he has been gone).
When you shack up with an abusive partner the fallout for the kids can be enormous. My cousin's eldest daughter is a forty eight year old mother of four who has NEVER left home, who uses her mother as a crutch (learned from the father?). She is also the child he used to take to his fancy women's houses as "woman bait", behind the mother's back. She is also the child that used to chastise her mother when her mother was struggling to make sure that her children did not go without food whilst paying off the debts that her husband had left behind. I remember being told that the oldest child's friend had to tell him that his father was in the local paper for stealing from work. You may not like this, but when deceptive people get with strong "never gonna give up" people, they KNOW that with the love and determination, your weakness is your pride. They KNOW that whatever it takes, you will manage to get things done with or without them. Look. I come from a culture (Jamaican) that is over infested ( and seemingly always has been. The "Yardies" despite their brashness are NOT the pioneers of skullduggery) with strong, blind women and weak over virile men. Your husband KNOWS you. You do not KNOW him. You are preparing to solve a problem that is not of your own making and of which you do not appear to want to know the full facts. Get rid of your pride. Trust me, when I had to get rid of an idiot last year( at the age of forty one) I said "no more, never again". In order for me to reach this enlightened point of view, I have had to drop my ego in order to fully see what possible weakness I had to attract such an arsehole to me. I couldn't get caught up in any petty "what has she got over me, What have I got over her" malarkey. It was a kick in the gut, the realisation that my ex is a monster and in fact "loves" a woman as long as she conforms to his rules. You, unknowingly are conforming to "rules" that your husband has laid down for you without your knowledge. Don't be like my cousin's ex wife who threw away her youth away for a wastrel and has turned to church for comfort and company whilst she keeps a lid on her grown daughter's behaviour. For all her appeasement and enabling, HE left her - the final disgrace AND came back to Britain after thirty one years, not to beg forgiveness, but for his British pension that he could not access in the U.S! Your husband like my cousin (despite him being a pisshead of monumental proportions) knows what he is doing. Don't let him inflict what could be an even more devastating blow to you. Weak people like to drag strong people down with them. P.S gamblers do not make good parents. How much money has he taken out of his kid's mouths? Do you want to know, or are you afraid that the knowledge will cause you to HAVE to split? Put your children first, because your husband doesn't.
My advice has nothing to do with marriage vows, because addiction has nothing to do with marriage vows. I sincerely wish the OP and her DH the best, and hope everything works out - as I think every single poster on this thread does. OP, the best advice you can be given has already been given - a reminder of the three Cs. I know it's not what you want to hear because you would rather think if you (singular) just try this can be fixed. Learning to accept that you cannot may be the hardest part of your journey. I wish you luck.
The advice about the house was probably given with debt/bankruptcy in mind. I went bankrupt knowing our home was safe because it was in DH's name and I'd never paid towards it (this was very clear because it had only been bought by DH after I'd defaulted on my debts). But I was advised that if we'd been living together in the house for longer, it would be less clear-cut, as they'd have to investigate a bit more deeply to see whether I'd paid enough in to become a beneficial owner. It sounds like your DH wouldn't be regarded as beneficial owner under bankruptcy, if he hasn't been paying anything at all towards it, but it wouldn't be automatic, they'd have to scrutinise your accounts quite closely to satisfy themselves I think.
Others have mentioned the house as an asset of the marriage, which regards property differently - it will be a joint asset even if it is all in your name and even if you were the only person making payments towards it. It would become part of the marital pot of assets (this is because sahms are regarded as contributing to the marriage assets through their work in the home even if they don't contribute financially). So, although some finance laws make the distinction about home ownership very clear, the marriage/divorce laws do not, so your home would be at risk if you were to split. My own sister got the house in her divorce even though she was a sahm and had never paid any money towards it.
Debts would still be regarded as his own, however, but there's always a risk that he might have taken out joint loans in your name. I am not sure what your legal position would be with the cash withdrawals if you have disclosed your PIN to your DH, I have heard some banks refuse to investigate in this type of case as you're responsible for safeguarding your PIN.
You really need to check both your credit reports. Someone on his salary doesn't move onto payday loans and stealing from you without exhausting conventional credit first. Even if you ignore all the other advice here, at least do this so you know what you're dealing with.
1 Keep searching: do a full audit to make sure you know the full extent of it. Unfortunately, you cannot rely on your husband to tell you everything, even now.
2. See a lawyer asap about a post-nup and what else you can do to protect your assets and your house (some kind of charge or note on the Land Registry etc). Be ruthless, because your children need you to be. You just cannot end up homeless.
3. Insist on your husband attending GA meetings as a condition of staying and try some family support meetings yourself. Educate yourself-don't take your husband's word for how things are.
4. Then step back and let your husband work on recover. Let him decide to go to meetings etc. He HAS to do it himself. If you help or baby him too much, I think he will be much more likely to relapse, or never recover at all.
I wish you good luck. Other posters have recovered from this in their marriages but I hope you don't mind me saying that one or two of your posts have come across as hopeful to the point of naive, and that isn't in your and your children's interests at all.
Out of interest, what did you think he was doing with his salary before you found out about his gambling?
Given that you pay all the bills, so he has no 'official' outgoings.
Did you assume he was saving?
I would always leave someone who stole my money and deceived me about it, addiction or no addiction, partner or no partner. I agree with whoever said it is a police matter. And I agree with whoever said the OP will be back here again.
I am glad it is not a deal breaker for you, my aunt has a gambling addiction when my uncle found out he threw out of the house, it took him three years to notice she had gambled so much money. My first thought when I found out was she has an illness how can you be such an ass to chuck her out ( in this case it really was just an excuse to end the marriage). Unlike your husband they were in a situation where they could afford for her gamble away the money.
Even now almost 20 years later my aunt is not allowed to control her own money, members of my family and the bank control how much she can spend. She has been through counselling and appears to lead a normal life but she can never be trusted with large amounts of money even though it is her own.
I hope you can work this out.
He did not tell you, the bank did and they probably rang you up in the first instance because of the frequency of withdrawals being made. You do realise he has stolen from you don't you?.
You seem to be more concerned about your marriage vows (what about his marriage vows to you that he's trampled all over and keep citing these. You also vehemently support posters who share this narrow minded view rather than any wellbeing of your own be it emotional or financial. That also indicates to me that you are in denial about what is happening in front of you. You have no real idea of the scale of his problem.
AnyFucker you're right, OP isn't listening. I think I will step away after this post as so many of us with first-hand experience are not being acknowledged.
OP you take your marriage vows seriously, that is a good thing. We are not necessarily telling you to separate, but you need to be fully aware of all the facts.
The only way to do this is get credit reports now. Please do not take the word of an addict. If he needs payday loans ALL of his salary has been spent and all other normal forms of credit have been exhausted. Does he have credit accounts with bookies?
Unless, of course, you aren't in England/Wales - that might make a difference to the legal position.
The house is mine. I owned it before I ever met him. I have had legal advice and they said he can't touch it and never could under any circumstances.
I really would get this checked (and by someone other that whoever gave you the advice previously) - becuase it's completely contrary to all of the advice I've ever seen.
I, like others on this thread, have been told that once you and DH married it became an asset of the marriage and therefore he could have some financial claim on it.
I think that actually, in strictness, its value would be included in the 'pot' of assets to be divided between you, rather than that he might be able to claim the house. But as, for many couples, the house is their main asset it often has to be sold to ensure that each person gets their fair share.
Please, please don't assume that this is all of the truth.
I desperately hope, for all of your sake, that it is. Just as I desperately hope that your DH now wants to change.
But if you only take one piece of advice from me then it's this: hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
That means at least the following (and there will be others):
- check both your and his credit ratings
- change all of your cash card PINs
- lock away valuable items he could sell
- get legal advice on who would be entitled to what if you were to split, both financially and in terms of contact with your daughter
- separate your finances including a post-nup
- learn to accept the 3Cs (and, God knows, that's the hardest part).
The house is mine. I owned it before I ever met him. I have had legal advice and they said he can't touch it and never could under any circumstances.
lollylaughs thank you. For better and for worse means something to me. And this is definitely for worse. The real reason I chucked him out before was that I had a feeling he wasn't telling me the whole truth. Now I know the truth I feel we can work through this together.
I discovered all this yesterday because my bank contacted me and I checked my transactions and saw all the cash withdrawals he had made without my permission so I opened his bank statements and saw all the payments to betting websites.
The problem is that you can't support or help an addict who doesn't want to change.
We can't tell, and neither can the OP at this stage, whether her DH wants to change.
Remember the 3 C's:
- you didn't cause your partner's addiction
- you can't control your partner's addition
- you can't cure your partner's addition
Message withdrawn at poster's request.
It's not about ignoring marriage vows, it's about what helps and what doesn't help when dealing with addiction. The OP's attitude sadly absolves the husband of responsibility and protects him from the ugly consequences of his actions. Therefore he is unlikely to truly tackle the addiction. Addicts can't be loved out of being addicts. The psychology of addiction tells us that addicts will continue to take all the live and support they are given whilst lying and continuing their addiction if they can. Tough love is often the only sane approach.
And OP - if your husband and you earn so much money, why was he getting payday loans? That's rubbish and you know it. And don't be so sure that your assets are protected, when you get married you share assets sadly so he could very easily drag you down.
What ever happened to marriage vows? As soon as something goes wrong everyone jumps on to post that op should leave her dh. Op's dh clearly has an addiction. As tough as things are, and will be in the future, he has a problem for which he needs help. Is kicking him out on the street the way to help him when clearly what he does need is support. Op has called the gamblers line for advice, has suggested to dh that he should also, to which it seems he did. Whether or not dh is in their lives now or out on the street he still needs to deal with his issues, and has a wife and child.
We don't go into marriages knowing what will come, but I thought that you went into marriage with an understanding that you support each other in good times and in bad.
I wish you all the best op, this is a long hard road and I take my hat off to you for being there to support your dh.
Whether her gets pleasure from the money is moot.
It doesn't make it any less stolen, any less squandered, any less burdensome a debt on his family.
There is nothing honourable about placing your marriage vows ahead of your child's welfare.
I am not excusing his behaviour just pointing out that when you are in the throws of addiction your actions whilst you are still responsible for them are taken out of desperation. I doubt he gets any pleasure from the money he has stolen that is why the answer is help.
I admire the op that she takes her marriage vows seriously.
I agree.. Log onto Experian and do a one off credit score for both of you. It was 20 quid the last time I did. It will list all debts, how much is owed, to who repayments and defaults. When you have all of that in front of you you can look at your options and next steps. You must be overwhelmed with it all.. Little steps for the minute.
May I ask how you found out it was gambling? I appreciate that you hacked one of his online accounts, but how did you find out about it in the first place? How did you find out about the 7 payday loans.
I don't have experience of gambling, but am the daughter of an alcoholic so know something of addictions. I too fear that you have misunderstood the depths to which your husband has gone and may yet go.
I am particularly concerned by the fact that you kicked him out last year for taking out a secret payday loan when he had previously promised not to (one ultimatum broken already right there) and yet he had still taken out at least 7 more. As others have said, there is a strong probability that this is the tip of the iceberg.
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