Falling pregnant is 90% a woman's fault

[Gingerandhibiscus]

Women CAN'T win!!!

REading through a thread on mn here where a single pregnant poster was pasted, interrogated judged and made answer for herself - I feel something like despair. (I don't know how she must feel).

Women don't 'put out' they're prudes and frigid or they have boundaries up around them. Or they're too fussy or too picky, or they're up themselves, or they're ugly, or they're spinsters. or feminists. What criticism are there for men who aren't in a sexual relationship.

if they have unprotected sex they are judged for 1) having had unprotected sex, and 2) if they get pregnant they're judged for not taking the MAP, and not having an abortion.

of course, if they had had an abortion they'd be judged for that too.

The original poster on the thread that has ME slackjawed works so she can't be attacked for seeking benefits. But some posters told her she shouldn't seek maintenance because it's not right given that the father wanted her to have an abortion. others told her she had a duty to seek maintenance on behalf of her child.

another poster told her that his taxes are propping up the running of the CSA. He seemed angry that the law and the state support a single woman in her unplanned pregnancy.

women can't win no matter what they do and what they choose. Unless they get married at about 27-33 to a nice man they'll be judged at some point. You literally can't move as a woman without being judged. ANd not just by men, but by women ... and that upsets me... :-(

[kinkyfuckery]

So what's the thread title based on?

[Grinkly]

I remember this thread.

I think that poor kids need all the support they can get and some mum deciding that Hmmmm, times running out and I want a child is not really enough. But, on the other hand, it can be enough if DP gets their act together. But there are alot of ishoos with being a single parent of a child (for the child), mainly lack of influence by the missing other sex parent (because men and women are different), but this can be provided by the male family members of the DM.

[Grinkly]

I don't mean poor kids as in financially poor but poor kids, they are expected to be 'successful' with less than perfect background.

[5madthings]

I know the thread you mean and I agree attitudes are annoying, heaven forbid men might be responsible for their own fertility and any children they produce!

Poor little men who can't control their sexual urges... Aghhhh makes me want to bang my head against a brick wall!

[Gingerandhibiscus]

but those are issues to do with single parenting (which is tough enough ffs) without it being accepted as a given that an unplanned pregnancy is 90% the woman's fault. people say, oh well yeh, it takes sperm to fertilise an egg, but really she should have ... been on the pill, taken the MAP, had an abortion. since when was the MAP never mind an abortion a licence to allow men to take no responsibility for a pregnancy.

A man puts sperm into a woman's vagina, he doesn't get to call "sperm thief" when a woman gets pregnant. Well, the truth is, the fact is, maybe he DOES get to say that, because seems like at least a third of the posters basically feel, no matter what they logically understand, that it just seeeeeems like the woman's fault.. people are more comfortable blaming a woman.

[Gingerandhibiscus]

exactly, 5madthings, i feel like banging my head against a wall.

[AnonToSpareBlushes2]

I posted on here on a similar topic, and was also surprised by some of the responses. I also commented on the more recent thread.

I'm totally baffled that we still appear to be living in the Stone Age, and think that it's a fantastic example of why feminism is still so very very much needed.

[OhLori]

Its complicated Ginger, and inevitably political, but there is a lot of truth in what you say :-(

[bestsonever]

I'll probably get a flaming for this but, I'd give females more than a 50% share in the blame. Given how drastically it changes a woman's life and her entire body for the rest of her life, it still amazes me how many 'accidents' occur. Never had an accident though ( just plenty of practice ;-)) so I guess I'd find it harder to understand. Doesn't mean I have a lack of empathy though as I try to ignore my wonder at why people can't act more responsibly.

[Gingerandhibiscus]

yes, feminism is still BADLY needed.

The only time I took a risk was when I thought a man was wearing a condom, but he wasn't. He took it off cos he couldn't keep it up with a condom on. If I'd got pregnant I would have been labelled a sperm theif or that I'd tricked him!!!!! argh. He tricked me. Yet, if I'd got pregnant and kept it bestsonever would have judged me. If I'd had an abortion that would have made me incredibly sad (although i'm pro-choice) and a milliion more people would have judged me.

What about men bestsonever? why shouldn't THEY act more responsibly??????????/ ALL they have to do is put on a condom.

[Twentytotwo]

'Given how drastically it changes a woman's life and her entire body for the rest of her life, it still amazes me how many 'accidents' occur'

Well, if you were looking for an example of judgemental bullshit ...

[Twentytotwo]

The pill is not 100% effective.

Condoms split.

There is no method of contraception for vaginal sex that is 100% effective.

When they say it's 98% effective they're saying for every 100 woman using it 2 will get pregnant.

[WorrySighWorrySigh]

In my opinion the big problem which leads to the blame-storm which occurs when there is an unplanned pregnancy is the woeful lack of understanding of the effectiveness of different types of contraception. If you are deluded enough to believe that condoms are a fool proof method of contraception then of course any pregnancy must be the result of a deliberate action by the person who is less unhappy about the pregnancy.

I have explained many times to my older teen that, biologically, sex is for making babies. Remember that then make contraceptive decisions on the basis that contraception can fail.

[WorrySighWorrySigh]

DH and I didnt realise how ineffective the coil is. We were definitely trying not to have a third. She was born practically clutching the damn thing.

[Januarymadness]

Actually I judge men more. If a woman ends up unexpectedly pregnant she HAS to deal with the consequences, whatever her choices. A man can just disappear off into the night and THAT is worth judging. Any man worth anything would A use condoms (at least at the beginning) to protect both of them from stds and pregnancy. and B face the consequences and support his partner should contraception fail.

[bestsonever]

I don't judge, mistakes happen in life. Generally it surprises me how often, but on an individual level I would never judge.
It could equally be seen as feminist to take charge of your own fertility as some men seem to be crap in this area and can't be relied upon.
Great endings can occur from mistakes, I'm sure there are many women out there who think that, upon reflection their 'mistake' lead to the best thing ever and some men too for that matter. It is what it is.

[bestsonever]

Absolutely to men acting more responsibly, I wish they would (my 9yr old knows what condoms are for and how important they are). Sadly, some men just aren't ( and can't seem to maintain an erection with one on - if it was the only way that sex could happen in life I'm sure many would find a way to maintain it).

[NettleTea]

I agree the consequences for women from an unplanned pregnancy are far far greater than for a man. And as a single woman contemplating bringing up a child alone, the consequences are greater still in respect to quality of life, future career options, stigmatisation from the greater society. Until fairly recently the whole MAP/abortion thing wasnt even an option, so to trot out that its the womans responsibility to pop along and get rid is pretty abhorant to alot of women finding themselves in that situation no matter how 'pro-choice' they may have been before the actuality kicks in. Perhaps they dont feel that a child is a throw away thing. Perhaps they dont want the potential physical or psychological trauma of abortion, or dont realise that there has been a contraceptive failure until its too late to take the MAP. Abortion isnt an easy choice.
Men on the other hand could simply walk away. the only thing thats going to affect him is via his paypacket if thats his choice, they're not walked down the aisle anymore with a shotgun up their arses. Given the actual cost of raising a child his financial contribution is probabl small change anyway. If they dont want to acknowledge that a child could come from sex then they are bloody stupid.

[Gingerandhibiscus]

Yes, and there is a huge, huge middle ground between not wanting a baby and not wanting an abortion. When I smelt the coffee in an abusive relationship, at nine weeks pregnant, my x had pulled a clump out of my hair.... I didn't want a baby, I didn't want an abortion either though. It was very hard. I don't know how it can be that I didn't want a baby and I also did not want an abortion. what I wanted, was NOT TO BE PREGNANT

anyway................ I agree with pp, given the cost of raising children my x's financial contribution is minimal. And people sometimes act shocked that i'm not delighted to be given this sum of money, for nothing I think they see it. And sometimes this view from women who live happily with husbands who put five times as much in to the joint account every month. I am thinking of somebody in particular here of course!! a rl person.

[Gingerandhibiscus]

@ nettletea, yes, I'm pro-choice, but it still doesn't meant that an abortion is like dialling for a pizza or a plumber or something like that. I don't know WHY I couldn't do it.

[SolidGoldBrass]

The whole history of misogyny is about men's envy, fear and hatred of the fact that it's women who gestate and have babies. Societies have always been about seeking different ways to take the control over childbirth (not just the actual birth but the whole process of having children) away from women and give it to men instead.
Some progress has been made over the last century or so in most of the developed world, but there's still a vast undercurrent of rage and anxiety at the idea of women getting to choose whether or not a baby arrives irrespective of what men want.

[NettleTea]

I couldnt do it either. And I am very pro choice. Just not for me. And I agree with SGB that it runs very very deep indeed. Probably as deep as when men first cottoned onto their role in reproduction. If anyone has read any of the Jean Auel 'Clan of the Cave Bear' series there is a very interesting shift in society based on this very fact........

[jaywall]

Oh my, this....this! ...is solid...gold....im still laughing and i read it 5 minutes ago....brilliant.

^The whole history of misogyny is about men's envy, fear and hatred of the fact that it's women who gestate and have babies. Societies have always been about seeking different ways to take the control over childbirth (not just the actual birth but the whole process of having children) away from women and give it to men instead.
Some progress has been made over the last century or so in most of the developed world, but there's still a vast undercurrent of rage and anxiety at the idea of women getting to choose whether or not a baby arrives irrespective of what men want.^

[happybubblebrain]

It is best to just go with the frigid prude option as it pisses men off the most. That way we win.

[perfectstorm]

Ginger that thread was one of the most bullying, horrible I have ever seen on MN. The fact it was aimed at a poster in a vulnerable situation asking for support compounded that badly. Really, really depressing.

I feel badly if stressing that the money was for the child added to her pressure; it was intended to counter those huffing at the OP wanting "his" money for "herself". It's not for the woman, which is why spousal maintenance was always separate. It's for the kid.

Really horrible. And the OP has been driven away when all she wanted was some understanding.