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Our post-affair discovery discussions continue...(62 Posts)
It's been 2 1/2 weeks now since I found out and I've been mostly calm (which seems to spook him) and sad. We are being friendly and honest and have been talking a lot. It helps that it was a short affair and finished over a year ago. He is what I would describe as a workaholic (18+ hour days, laptop on holiday, never takes all his holiday allowance etc), and I have never felt that I and the DCs come first.
So our talk tonight ended in me saying:
" I feel really sad because I realise that you never loved me enough, otherwise you wouldn't have had an affair, and you wouldn't have always put work first. I want you to understand that although I may have given you a hard time about working all the time, the reason was I always wanted more of you. All I've wanted for years is to spend more time with you, and for you to want to spend time with me".
And he said:
"What did you want to do? You never said 'let's do this' or 'let's do that'..."
I was so upset by this reaction that for the first time ever I asked him to sleep in the spare room, and he is completely baffled as far as I can tell. Am I too cryptic and does he deserve further explanation? Is it obvious to you that he's completely missed the point thereby confirming everything I said? I really wish this wasn't happening to me, it's rubbish
so, u have to invite him to spend time with u or 'Obviously'he'd be at work. his default is to be away from u and he shrugs not over that but shrugs because u didnt issue a lot of individual requests for his company.
He is an utter bullshitter, and blaming you for his workaholism and affair.
My was did both too. I think they are often related, and to do with need for approval-self and from others.
and instead of ever going to u and suggesting something hecwanted to do, he found the time to have fun and make time for somebody else! i get it! he shouldnt expect u to cordially invite him to take part in the marriage. but, sounds like he is waiting for an invite. not just one. a whole list of individual invites and each one will feel like a favour.
Thank you. I may well quote you in the morning!
Can I ask why he is still there if this is what he's like?
He's hardly on his knees begging for forgiveness is he?
You need to find your anger, love. He will never in a million years get this while you are calmly accepting this and letting him stay without incurring any losses.
Even he says I should be more angry. Maybe it'll come soon...
Why are you staying with him though? It doesn't sound like he's been use or ornament to you for years, having hardly been there.
You don't have to stay with someone who's been unfaithful to you and a shit husband and father before that. You can see this as the last straw and cut your losses you know.
Do you drive him to work harder, or is it of his own volition? have you asked him why he found someone elses company preferable to yours? If you don't understand the reasons why he strayed your relationship is doomed. Comments along the lines of ditch the bastard are unhelpful.
No I have consistently said "we don't need the money, we could have a different life". The affair was at work, it was someone who understood what he does and appreciated and admired him for it.
What a mess.
Is he getting any professional help in unravelling why he gave himself permission to fuck another woman, and then blame you ?
Are you getting any to discover why you are willing to accept such treatment, then lay down in front of him with "kick me now" stamped on your forehead?
You are not his counsellor, he shouldn't be doing this with you, it is twisting the knife (as you are finding)
get some separate counselling and then, only if you really want to (and he does all the right things), possibly some joint sessions
alternatively, tell him to take a running jump
Perhaps you've just grown apart and both of you need to come terms with that.Aggressive postures as advocated by eggyfucker will not help at all.
Redbindy you sound a bit surrendered wife there The OP has stated she gave him a hard time about working too much so it's clear she didn't drive him to work harder.
LetsGo the onus is not on you to work to understand why he did it. The onus is on him to explain it to you in as thoughtful a way as possible, and do everything he can to win your forgiveness.
What he said put full responsibility on you and seems to underline the fact that he had no real impetus to spend time with you; that it was up to you to request that he do so.
And you said, "I realise you never loved me enough," That's a heart-breaking statement. He should have responded be telling you how much he loves you and always has. The fact that he reduced the exchange to your lack of 'do this and do that' is understandably deeply upsetting.
Red, I find your apologies for infidelity unhelpful, so we are square
Ignore any victim-blaming or any posts that suggest he was entitled to do this because you'd 'grown apart'.
Okay, tell us what he's done in the past few weeks.
Booked a therapist for himself?
Read any books and bought them himself?
Seen that this was just another flavour of the selfish behaviour that went before, where you were left on your own to bring up the kids and run the house?
Perhaps you were in shock and that explains your calm.
Remember you can still ask him to leave while you consider your position.
You sound like a supplicant at the altar of a bean counter who's too preoccupied with
indulging themselves balancing the books to bother balancing their home/family life.
Does he still work with the ow?
You've told him to sleep in the spare room tonight and tomorrow you can tell him to pack his bags and go sleep in a spare room in another building. That might serve to concentrate his mind on matters other than his precious 'work' but, if not, divorce his insensitive arse on the grounds of his wholly unreasonable behaviour.
I also think that, when you're presented with shock news like this, you need some time to yourself to let it sink in... preferably without the influence of the other person muddying the waters. So I'd suggest you ask him to leave for a while so that you can decide how you feel.
At the moment it's all conveniently your fault for being understanding and allowing him enough rope to hang himself..... Not the attitude of a sorry man.
Get Shirley Glass's Not Just Friends.
Cheating is ALL about the cheater's issues and flaws.
He needs to be begging for your forgiveness and doing everything he can to help you recover. He needs to be taking a long hard look at HIMSELF to find out what made him betray you - and address these issues and flaws.
quick male perspective.
He is obviously a bloke who get his self esteem from his job, I work with a few of those, it's all about being seen to be Alpha in the workplace, I'm not attempting to justify an affair in any way, but the male ego is so simple, that somone who admires him for what he does in his workplace as opposed to someone who doesn't in his psyche minimises his actions.
I don't think it would have mattered to him if you had said I want to do this or that, unless it's a competative hobby that you both can do. However, I'm also not sure what else someone with his seeming ego could say to account for his work habits etc. To him it's an excuse that you don't demand to do things for him to be at work all the time, and to have work take up his life, nothing more than that.
Thank you all. It's really helpful. I promise I am not as weak as I might seem. I'm just of the opinion that marriage is something we have committed to try and fix if we can. Not sure his vows have been at the forefront of his mind though! It's hard to accept that he may just not care enough to do anything about it.
Based on what I've said here and some of your replies I wrote him an email listing all the the things I was doing to try and help and asking why it was all me. I think he got the point and now I am withdrawing a bit. I have been quite distant with him this morning as I feel like I need to take control a it more.
He's looking to rent a flat nearer his work. As he stays away so much anyway it won't really impact the kids much hopefully, they just accept he's at work.
I have the Glass book. One of my points to him was 'why was it me buying the book? Why is it still on my bedside table?'. He's looked at it a bit, though I can't help but think if he really wanted to to make amends he would be studying it. He has himself identified he is at the 'ambivalence' stage. At least he's finally being honest!
If he was dissatisfied in the marriage (which he might have been) then his role was to take equal responsibility in fixing it. Or if that unhappy, ending it cleanly. The responsibility for turingto a third party was all his, and nothing you could have done since he made the choice to be unfaithful would have helped. He took your unquestioning support as justification to be selfish.
You need to take a close look at whether you wantto be married to someone like this. Now, it might be that you like him and have a long enough shared history that you think a reconciliation possible. But you need to reach this decision for yourself. And he needs to be equally committed to it.
Has he severed contact with OW? Will he leave this job for a fresh start somewhere where he will not be encountering her at work?
If he is at the ambivalence stage and isn't bothered about reading the book, then why are you with him?
Stop being his counsellor, take control and tell him you deserve love and respect and that he has to take that flat he was talking about. I hope you are not servicing him domestically (or sexually) - no washing, cooking, shopping etc.
Then focus on yourself - hobbies, interests, work, training etc.
His affair ended when she got pregnant by her husband (she wanted a baby). The irony is she was a career girl he admired and respected (like I used to be) and now she's a full-time mum too. She turned into me...what a disappointment for him. He has also left the company.
I simply would not give someone who was "ambivalent" about our relationship any house room, nor any head space
Get him out, and stop feeding his ego with "discussions"
If,and only if, he came back on bended knee would he get any consideration from me and it would be a cold day in hell before there was any domestic servicing going on for a very long time
I am beginning to think that you and he are right. I have to shut him out a bit. He seems to want that too, either to have a proper consequence for his actions (maybe he's seeking punishment, I don't know) or because he knows that's how he can think more clearly. I don't like playing games, but I have noticed that as soon as I become distant he tries harder to engage.
It's a bit tricky because he stays away in the week it won't make a great deal of difference. I suppose I could stop being his (only) friend- just be polite on the phone and pass him over to the kids.
Like I say, I don't like playing games, but maybe I should try and see it as self-preservation instead?
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